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R. Mute posted:oh i thought we were using the colloquial use of corporate personhood where it doesn't just mean 'a corporation is more than just a collection of people' but has connotations involving civil rights and and getting involved in the voting process and all that Corporations have limited civil rights all over Europe as well as America, and they're only involved in the voting process in the City of London. I'm just telling people to stop believing it's worthwhile to do anything based on vague notions of what established legal and economic terms are.
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Jul 5, 2014 21:17
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agreed and unironically only a revolution will solve the problems that the western capitalist world faces. death to capitalism
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Jul 5, 2014 21:20
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Nintendo Kid posted:No, you do not understand the concept because you immediately posted the next paragraph. Every country on earth used to be a monarchy or theocracy. We were totally in the wrong for rocking the boat on that one too.
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Jul 5, 2014 21:20
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Lotta people getting fishmech'd really hard.
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Jul 5, 2014 21:20
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size1one posted:Every country on earth used to be a monarchy or theocracy. We were totally in the wrong for rocking the boat on that one too. So you love sole proprietorships and the inability of governments to participate in contracts or what? There's literally nothing to gain from some shitbrained attempt to "end corporate personhood" anymore than there was anything to gain from donating to the KONY 2012 people. R. Mute posted:agreed and unironically only a revolution will solve the problems that the western capitalist world faces. death to capitalism same and agreed.
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Jul 5, 2014 21:23
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Nintendo Kid posted:So you love sole proprietorships and the inability of governments to participate in contracts or what? There's literally nothing to gain from some shitbrained attempt to "end corporate personhood" anymore than there was anything to gain from donating to the KONY 2012 people. I never argued we shouldn't have corporations. In fact, I explicitly stated that corporations are needed. My point has been and still is that there is more than one way to convey rights and legal protections to corporations. But then you're probably just trolling me what with the false dichotomy, ad hominem, and strawmen. I should know better than to actively engage you.
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Jul 5, 2014 21:42
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Fishmech is actually 100% correct.
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Jul 5, 2014 21:50
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I'd rather go to fully publicly financed elections than try and split hairs over the definition of corporate personhood with respect to the law - you just know some smartasses will find a way around the latter anyhow.
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Jul 5, 2014 21:57
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Something something fringe loonies something something con artists stealing mah tax dollars something something Nader.
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Jul 5, 2014 22:01
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Can some people help me better understand the concept of corporate personhood? What rights does a corporation enjoy that is separate from the rights an individual has under American law? Is it just to allow corporations to do business in the way an individual would or is there more to it than just that? This is what I'm using to try and understand the issue better: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_personhood but I'm sure there are better sources.
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Jul 5, 2014 22:05
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I'm pretty confident that a possible corporate personhood amendment (as a response to Citizens United) would be a little more complicated than "corps aren't people, lol". But who knows???
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Jul 5, 2014 22:11
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N. Senada posted:Can some people help me better understand the concept of corporate personhood? What rights does a corporation enjoy that is separate from the rights an individual has under American law? Is it just to allow corporations to do business in the way an individual would or is there more to it than just that? The wikipedia article actually looks like a good place to start-outside of a law school, you're not going to find anything resembling an unbiased account of the issue, which is obviously very complicated and politically fraught.
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Jul 5, 2014 22:16
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Wikipedia posted:Corporate personhood is an American legal concept that a corporation may be recognized as an individual in the eyes of the law. JOHN SULLIVAN, a person, can make business transactions with DYMAXION MATTRESS CO. a corporation. That's it.
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Jul 5, 2014 22:18
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One of you wads suggested not snubbing Evan Williams in a prior US Pol thread. Thank you, whoever you are.Nintendo Kid posted:Corporations have limited civil rights all over Europe as well as America, and they're only involved in the voting process in the City of London.
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Jul 5, 2014 22:21
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Xenocidebot posted:One of you wads suggested not snubbing Evan Williams in a prior US Pol thread. Thank you, whoever you are.
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Jul 5, 2014 22:22
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N. Senada posted:Can some people help me better understand the concept of corporate personhood? What rights does a corporation enjoy that is separate from the rights an individual has under American law? Is it just to allow corporations to do business in the way an individual would or is there more to it than just that? Corporate personhood is a legal concept that allows a piece of paper to be treated as a legal person to make it easier to conduct business. This means the corporation can sue, be sued, hold property, have debts, and have an obligation to pay taxes (lol). It also shields the people who own the corporation (stockholders) from liability. This is why the bank can't repossess your car because the tech startup you bought stock in went under. Corporate personhood is essentially a legal wall seperating a business's activities from the owners and the people conducting those activities (to a certain extent). As opposed to, say, a sole proprietorship, which is, as far as government is concerned, just you going out there and doing stuff. That's about all I got.
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Jul 5, 2014 23:26
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R. Mute posted:is that what you're doing? getting really anal about legal semantics? 38 and 40 are the same person. Breakfast All Day posted:Lotta people getting fishmech'd really hard. paragon1 posted:Corporate personhood is a legal concept that allows a piece of paper to be treated as a legal person to make it easier to conduct business. This means the corporation can sue, be sued, hold property, have debts, and have an obligation to pay taxes (lol). It also shields the people who own the corporation (stockholders) from liability. This is why the bank can't repossess your car because the tech startup you bought stock in went under. Corporate personhood is essentially a legal wall "Free Speech", "Money=Speech", "Freedom to exert 'religious' beliefs", etc... do not need to be applied to the piece of paper so that the humans hiding behind it can act like monsters.
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Jul 5, 2014 23:36
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I never said it did? I was explaining how corporations as a concept work, not justifying bad behavior and bad Supreme Court decisions, for fucks sake. paragon1 fucked around with this message at 23:41 on Jul 5, 2014 |
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Jul 5, 2014 23:37
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paragon1 posted:I never said it did? I was explaining how corporations as a concept work, not justifying bad behavior, for fucks sake.
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Jul 5, 2014 23:38
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FRINGE posted:"Free Speech", "Money=Speech", "Freedom to exert 'religious' beliefs", etc... do not need to be applied to the piece of paper so that the humans hiding behind it can act like monsters. Congrats on agreeing with segregationists. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Association_for_the_Advancement_of_Colored_People_v._Alabama And their cronies. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_Times_Co._v._Sullivan And Nixon. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_Times_Co._v._United_States
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Jul 5, 2014 23:41
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Kiwi Ghost Chips posted:Congrats on agreeing with segregationists. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Association_for_the_Advancement_of_Colored_People_v._Alabama Lol. Irony-points for using racism and corporate power to defend ... racism and coprorate power.
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Jul 5, 2014 23:43
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Corporate personhood is the reason the NYT could be sued at all, if your looking for more examples of how personhood works. Question: How long before we get some company suing the government for the corporate tax rate being discriminatory?
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Jul 5, 2014 23:46
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FRINGE posted:Oh look the pro-corporatist has reasons why things cant change, and further if you want them to change youre a racist! Here's another filthy racist that agrees with me  https://secure.huffingtonpost.com/ira-glasser/understanding-the-emcitiz_b_447342.html
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Jul 5, 2014 23:47
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 rip d&d chat thread, killed by the exact same posting as the gun thread
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Jul 6, 2014 00:28
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Raskolnikov38 posted:
At some point, you would begin thinking the fault is in the people posting, not the subjects.
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Jul 6, 2014 00:33
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I was reading the US politics thread, which every so often has the discussion over high school history. But, I figured this thread was better to post in for this. I went to high school in the south and I remember (to my teacher's credit) the history of the civil war was presented as bad thing the south did over slavery. But, my question has more to do with the period between the civil war and WWI. The main thing we got from the inter-war period was nothing much happened, but a few great men made some companies and then we had a big war in Europe. Is this normal in a lot of high schools? I am wondering because it just glosses over all labor disputes of the period.
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Jul 6, 2014 00:36
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Raskolnikov38 posted:
If everyone starts posting about burgers again everything will be just fine.
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Jul 6, 2014 00:37
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Deadulus posted:Is this normal in a lot of high schools? I am wondering because it just glosses over all labor disputes of the period. Yes, that's the memory hole. Concealing the history of labor is the biggest conspiracy in America.
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Jul 6, 2014 00:38
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I can't comment much about high school US history since I took APUSH (thankfully the textbook and my teacher actually expounded on the Chicago Strike and Pinkerton et al, although we never went into the West Virginia Coal Wars), but good lord did my 8th grade US history teacher spend literally 3/4 of the year masturbating about the constitution and how the North was just as bad as the South. I'll never forget Vanderbilt's "The public be damned". Jerry Manderbilt fucked around with this message at 00:59 on Jul 6, 2014 |
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Jul 6, 2014 00:41
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Deadulus posted:I was reading the US politics thread, which every so often has the discussion over high school history. But, I figured this thread was better to post in for this. I would say yes but the teacher I got in high school for post ACW US History was lf as gently caress and literally based the class around zinn's a peoples history and killing hope
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Jul 6, 2014 00:41
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Vladimir Poutine posted:If everyone starts posting about burgers again everything will be just fine. I prefer to use 80/20 or 85/15 for my burgers because 73/27 shrinks too much when you cook them + making a bunch of hamburgers with that fatty rear end poo poo leaves you with a bunch of beef fat on your hands and that is pretty gross IMO
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Jul 6, 2014 00:45
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SedanChair posted:Yes, that's the memory hole. Concealing the history of labor is the biggest conspiracy in America. Yeah, this is what I was mainly trying to figure out. Where I am, if I ask someone about this period, no body knows anything about it. I had a huge knowledge gap about this period, until took the time to read about it. This is an issue all over America and not just the South, I take it?
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Jul 6, 2014 00:46
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Deadulus posted:I was reading the US politics thread, which every so often has the discussion over high school history. But, I figured this thread was better to post in for this. Educated in the south also and it was the same. Only things discussed between "The War between the States" and WW1 were some colonial-focused westward expansion events and the Spanish-American War (but of course not the Philippines).
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Jul 6, 2014 00:50
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Deadulus posted:Yeah, this is what I was mainly trying to figure out. Where I am, if I ask someone about this period, no body knows anything about it. I had a huge knowledge gap about this period, until took the time to read about it. All over. Places like Kansas, which are now huge republican strongholds, used to be the beating heart of America's left-wing populist movements. I don't really know what happened. I was recommended a book about this once. Uh... what's the matter with kansas? I think?
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Jul 6, 2014 00:50
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Our, only assignment about the period was to be given a biography of an industrialist and write a report. I had J. P. Morgan. I don't remember what I wrote, but I am sure it is hilarious, if I can find it. Raccooon fucked around with this message at 00:58 on Jul 6, 2014 |
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Jul 6, 2014 00:54
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Deadulus posted:I was reading the US politics thread, which every so often has the discussion over high school history. But, I figured this thread was better to post in for this. People's History of the United States should be mandatory or recommended in high school. The labor movement, the guilded age, Emma Goldman and Eugene Debs, the fact that kids don't grow up with this stuff doesn't seem like a mistake, but an utter calculation.
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Jul 6, 2014 00:57
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Personally when I read that the reason Oklahoma only allows Democrats and Republicans on the ballot is due to the strength of left-wing third parties in the early 20th century, I had trouble believing it. I guess states that had strong populist streaks have been co-opted by right-wing populism nowadays, or something?
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Jul 6, 2014 00:58
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Deadulus posted:Our, only assignment about the period was to be given a biography of an industrialist and write a report. Did you write about the time when he held the world economy hostage (during the Panic of 1907) in order to acquire TC&I for US Steel? Or when the Pujo Committee found out that Morgan effectively held control of the vast majority of the market through interlocking directorates? Good times.
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Jul 6, 2014 00:58
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ThirdPartyView posted:Did you write about the time when he held the world economy hostage (during the Panic of 1907) in order to acquire TC&I for US Steel? Or when the Pujo Committee found out that Morgan effectively held control of the vast majority of the market through interlocking directorates? Good times. No, I am pretty sure the younger me glossed over all that and wrote, solely, about his philanthropy and schools he helped set up. For that, I am deeply sorry.
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Jul 6, 2014 01:01
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Jerry Manderbilt posted:Personally when I read that the reason Oklahoma only allows Democrats and Republicans on the ballot is due to the strength of left-wing third parties in the early 20th century, I had trouble believing it. Depends on where you're talking about. Places like Minnesota and New York do have a tradition of populist progressive parties, but what you tend to see is a co-option of them by "left-wing" stalwarts like the Democratic party. coughfuckyouAndrewCuomocough.
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Jul 6, 2014 01:02
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