Dungeon World Thread (Messy, Forceful, Stunning)

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Error 404: Jul 17, 2009; MAGE CURES PLOT

Ich posted:

That's some seriously awesome leather armor! But seriously, this is the second time I've seen this in a new playbook recently: 2 armor with no clumsy tag. This is either a very minor oversight that should be corrected, or power creep that should be stopped, because it's pointless and tedious.

This was an oversight on my part, thanks for catching it!

Bigup DJ posted:

Walker on the Path of Ash and Bone is is generally good. Initiate of Blood Magic is pretty dry and boring. The Non-Euclidean Acolyte is generally good. Akashic Theosopher has some interesting moves which probably wouldn't translate into a game too well - eg. Split the River for reasons outline below. Shaman of the Abyssal Dark is cool. Protean Venatori is really cool (my favourite), but far too complicated. Ceteri is great. Apprentice of the Silver Hand is great except for the move which requires you to spend XP, which is abominable for that same reason. Keeper of the Inner Light is boring like the Blood Magic one - it's just number-adders.

� You should never have rolled moves whose function is purely to provide bonuses to other rolled moves. No "roll this, and if you roll well you get a bonus to rolling this." eg. 'I can beat the Reaper at his own game', 'Cryptologia',
→ You should never have to roll twice to perform what is essentially one move. More broadly, avoid moves which allow one player to act repeatedly while the others do nothing, eg. 'Split the River'.

� +2 is a really huge bonus. I never give bonuses or penalties of more than 1. Check out this cool graph for more info on dice probabilities.
→ More generally, fiction first means bonuses and penalties can only take you so far. They lose meaning beyond +/- 3, and I'd argue beyond +/- 2. If someone's at a huge disadvantage to do something, have them Defy Danger (eg. Running on broken legs) or bar them from doing it altogether (eg. Running with no legs). If someone's at a huge advantage to do something, they can do it without a roll.

� Some of your moves are far too specific and in some cases redundant. For instance, get rid of the options to do with mimicking other people from 'Mask of a Thousand Faces' (ie. The last three) and leave that function to 'Doppelganger'.
→ More specifically - you should generally write move results in terms of the outcomes they can achieve rather than what they can do. That's a really abstract difference so here's an example: Rather than these options like "Make general cosmetic changes like eye, hair, and skin color" or "Alter general height, weight, gender, and build" (Why are these two different things?) for 'Mask of a Thousand Faces', try something like this: "On a 10+, you're unrecognisable. On a 7-9, you retain an identifying mark and you will encounter someone who recognises you for who you are."

� Rather than saying "You always take the 10+ result" on something, say they're immune to it (eg. 'Perfectly Centred' makes you immune to spiritual and mental influence) or make them better at it, like the Fighter's 'Bend Bars, Lift Gates'.

� Spending XP is always really really bad, no matter which game you're designing for. Don't make people pick between being weak and lovely and having cool stuff which won't refund your XP when it's gone. You're from the WoD thread, you should know this!

� Quick move analysis: 'Spirit Touched' - "You may interact and Parley with spirits as if they were people." The other PC's can't? Why not? Provide a short, evocative reason. "Your knowledge of the spirit language counts as leverage in a Parley with a spirit." Why? Where possible, avoid using mechanical terms in favour of fiction.
→ Consider this: "You have mastered the ruinous tongue of the Abyssal subspirits. You can speak to them without losing your mind, and the smaller ones have a deferential respect/hunger for you." Always go for wet, evocative, imprecise language.

� Rewrite of 'Seventh Step of Inertial Alacrity': "So long as you run as fast as you can, you can run along walls and ceilings."
→ I actually did the same thing as you've done with the BCCs a few months ago with a playbook based on Exalted's Infernals. Check out 'Wind-Born Stride' and 'Racing Vitaris' under Adorjan! Steal anything you want.

I won't go point by point on all of them, but thank you so much for the detailed feedback, you're completely right in that a lot of the BCCs are a bit uninspired, most of them were just a footnote (punch wizard!, blood wizard!,spooky wizard! :drac:

etc.)as I was making mkII, and it totally shows.

As for the 'Don't Spend XP for stuff' I'm a bit at a loss for what should be done there, I want the player who chooses that BCC to be the super cool enchanting crafter person, who makes the fighter their own Excalibur. But at the same time I want to a.) differentiate it from just having them do the ritual move to make the magic item, and b.) make sure Mr. 'no sense of right and wrong' isn't just dropping loaded shotguns everywhere, y'know? All that said, I really do know better :eng99:

As it stands now, you've given me a lot of good direction on where to go with them. Super Thanks1

# ? Jun 30, 2014 02:13

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# ? Jun 3, 2024 15:16

Bigup DJ: Nov 8, 2012

Error 404 posted:

I won't go point by point on all of them, but thank you so much for the detailed feedback, you're completely right in that a lot of the BCCs are a bit uninspired, most of them were just a footnote (punch wizard!, blood wizard!,spooky wizard! etc.)as I was making mkII, and it totally shows.

As for the 'Don't Spend XP for stuff' I'm a bit at a loss for what should be done there, I want the player who chooses that BCC to be the super cool enchanting crafter person, who makes the fighter their own Excalibur. But at the same time I want to a.) differentiate it from just having them do the ritual move to make the magic item, and b.) make sure Mr. 'no sense of right and wrong' isn't just dropping loaded shotguns everywhere, y'know? All that said, I really do know better

As it stands now, you've given me a lot of good direction on where to go with them. Super Thanks1

No problem! Point by point replies suck anyway, they take too much time.

Crafting moves are typically Ritual-style moves. Just say 'Crucible of the Perfected Image' can produce magic items or get rid of it altogether and leave it to Thaumaturgy. Maybe do a Signature Weapon-style move in place of 'Master of the Ideal Form', eg. Turn those tags into options, have the player pick 2 when they get the move and say "Spend 1 Focus to blast a weapon full of crazy magic energy - it gains the features you picked until you next Make Camp." You could do the same for armour if you wanted. The Wizard's 'Enchanter's Soul' amplify-a-magic-item effect is cool too.

# ? Jun 30, 2014 02:24

Error 404: Jul 17, 2009; MAGE CURES PLOT

Bigup DJ posted:

No problem! Point by point replies suck anyway, they take too much time.

Crafting moves are typically Ritual-style moves. Just say 'Crucible of the Perfected Image' can produce magic items or get rid of it altogether and leave it to Thaumaturgy. Maybe do a Signature Weapon-style move in place of 'Master of the Ideal Form', eg. Turn those tags into options, have the player pick 2 when they get the move and say "Spend 1 Focus to blast a weapon full of crazy magic energy - it gains the features you picked until you next Make Camp." You could do the same for armour if you wanted. The Wizard's 'Enchanter's Soul' amplify-a-magic-item effect is cool too.

I'm gonna definitely think on that some more, also thanks for linking your exalted thing, definitely going to take some inspiration there.

# ? Jun 30, 2014 02:37

Glazius: Jul 22, 2007; Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.; Clapping Larry

Since we're doin' playbook critiques I thought I'd offer this up. Compendium classes for a game I never got to run at Origins.

Ossian's Eleven; or, Temple of One: What's Yours Is Divine.

# ? Jul 1, 2014 15:24

Deltasquid: Apr 10, 2013; awww...
you guys made me ink!

THUNDERDOME

I worked on my Tarot Reader some more.

What I'm looking for is critique of what I have currently penned down, and any sources of inspiration you might have for more moves. Characters that use cards/gambling/prophecies as abilities or weapons, anything that fits, really.

# ? Jul 5, 2014 14:49

Arashiofordo3: Nov 5, 2010; Warning, Internet
may prove lethal.

I rather like the mechanics on show. Especially the openness of using the true meanings of the major arcana. Especially as it is not a random card that you get but one that you pick. Really gives the player a lot of potential effects in a simple neat package. Not sure what other options you could look too for interpenetration... Possibly the fate people from Kingdoms of Amalure? Don't know how much of a fit that would be but its the only thing I can think of.

# ? Jul 5, 2014 17:46

Captain Walker: Apr 7, 2009; Mother knows best
Listen to your mother
It's a scary world out there

Arashiofordo3 posted:

interpenetration...

I should read this playbook more closely. Sounds kinky.

# ? Jul 5, 2014 18:01

Arashiofordo3: Nov 5, 2010; Warning, Internet
may prove lethal.

Jesus, that's what I get for not proof reading my posts as a dyslexic. I'm going to leave it undedited or else your comment won't make sense. But for the record I meant 'inspiration'

# ? Jul 5, 2014 20:50

Deltasquid: Apr 10, 2013; awww...
you guys made me ink!

THUNDERDOME

Arashiofordo3 posted:

Especially as it is not a random card that you get but one that you pick.

Uh, it's actually meant to be random. You have to roll to see what card you draw. Do you guys think it'd be better if the Tarot Reader could just straight up choose the card? Because that'd remove the core gimmick it has and make the playbook way too strong, I think. Part of the nerfing of the playbook is that the player will have to work around the card he happens to draw.

# ? Jul 5, 2014 21:31

Captain Walker: Apr 7, 2009; Mother knows best
Listen to your mother
It's a scary world out there

Arashiofordo3 posted:

Jesus, that's what I get for not proof reading my posts as a dyslexic. I'm going to leave it undedited or else your comment won't make sense. But for the record I meant 'inspiration'

Counter-suggestion: Never edit your posts, your gently caress ups are unironically hilarious. Side benefits of crippling mental conditions!

# ? Jul 5, 2014 21:54

Error 404: Jul 17, 2009; MAGE CURES PLOT

Captain Walker posted:

Counter-suggestion: Never edit your posts, your gently caress ups are unironically hilarious. Side benefits of crippling mental conditions!

Yep, they also have the side benefit of making me stop and read carefully, before posting an action in game, rather than skim updates in games.

# ? Jul 5, 2014 21:57

Arashiofordo3: Nov 5, 2010; Warning, Internet
may prove lethal.

Deltasquid posted:

Uh, it's actually meant to be random. You have to roll to see what card you draw. Do you guys think it'd be better if the Tarot Reader could just straight up choose the card? Because that'd remove the core gimmick it has and make the playbook way too strong, I think. Part of the nerfing of the playbook is that the player will have to work around the card he happens to draw.

Ah, I missed the bit about rolling d22-1, my bad. Although how would someone go about rolling a d22-1?

# ? Jul 6, 2014 00:43

Xelkelvos: Dec 19, 2012

Deltasquid posted:

Uh, it's actually meant to be random. You have to roll to see what card you draw. Do you guys think it'd be better if the Tarot Reader could just straight up choose the card? Because that'd remove the core gimmick it has and make the playbook way too strong, I think. Part of the nerfing of the playbook is that the player will have to work around the card he happens to draw.

Random is one way to do it. Another solid way to do it is if the Player chooses a Card and the GM chooses a card as a counter limitation.

# ? Jul 6, 2014 00:47

JohnOfOrdo3: Nov 7, 2011; My other car is an asteroid

Arashiofordo3 posted:

Ah, I missed the bit about rolling d22-1, my bad. Although how would someone go about rolling a d22-1?

according to Google there are d22s on the market. Not a common dice though.

# ? Jul 6, 2014 00:55

100 HOGS AGREE: Oct 13, 2007; Grimey Drawer

It's be easier to just have an actual deck of cards and shuffle it. Playing cards could stand in you'd just need to know what card corresponds to which tarot.

Most everyone has a deck of cards in their house.

# ? Jul 6, 2014 01:54

Double Plus Undead: Dec 24, 2010

Arashiofordo3 posted:

Ah, I missed the bit about rolling d22-1, my bad. Although how would someone go about rolling a d22-1?

Roll a d20 and flip a coin?

# ? Jul 6, 2014 02:46

Tollymain: Jul 9, 2010; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

no, a d20+d2 has a different set of result probability. better idea: don't use d22s

# ? Jul 6, 2014 06:24

Xelkelvos: Dec 19, 2012

Double Plus Undead posted:

Roll a d20 and flip a coin?

Not quite. The odds on that on not uniform. Mixing die to generate uniform values is multiplicative rather than additive. You'd be better served with a d12 and a d2 with rerolls on 12 of the d12.

# ? Jul 6, 2014 06:29

djw175: Apr 23, 2012; by zen death robot

Xelkelvos posted:

Not quite. The odds on that on not uniform. Mixing die to generate uniform values is multiplicative rather than additive. You'd be better served with a d12 and a d2 with rerolls on 12 of the d12.

Doesn't that end up with values of 1 and 22 being the lowest? Also how would you get odd numbers over 11?

# ? Jul 6, 2014 06:33

Chaos Triangle: Dec 9, 2007; DO NOT TRUST

djw175 posted:

Doesn't that end up with values of 1 and 22 being the lowest? Also how would you get odd numbers over 11?

By rerolling 12s, you effectively turn the d12 into a d11; the d2 then determines if you're in the upper or lower range. Janky, but it works.

# ? Jul 6, 2014 08:21

djw175: Apr 23, 2012; by zen death robot

Chaos Triangle posted:

By rerolling 12s, you effectively turn the d12 into a d11; the d2 then determines if you're in the upper or lower range. Janky, but it works.

Ah. I was reading it as multiplication. That makes sense now.

# ? Jul 6, 2014 08:23

Deltasquid: Apr 10, 2013; awww...
you guys made me ink!

THUNDERDOME

I'm using a dice roller program where I can make a custom die, which is how I made a d22. I thought all dice roll programs would offer this feature but after some googling it appears to be rare.

E: You don't actually need dice, just a way to randomly generate a number between 0 and 21. There are a lot of sites that let you do that for free.

Deltasquid fucked around with this message at 10:11 on Jul 6, 2014

# ? Jul 6, 2014 09:48

Lemon-Lime: Aug 6, 2009

Tollymain posted:

better idea: don't use d22s

100 HOGS AGREE posted:

It's be easier to just have an actual deck of cards and shuffle it.

Yes, do this.

# ? Jul 6, 2014 10:57

Doodmons: Jan 17, 2009

I'll be completely honest, a brief skim led me to believe that an actual Tarot deck was required. Which is fine by me, I've got a few lying around the place. It seemed a lot cooler to actually be using the Tarot deck out of character.

# ? Jul 6, 2014 13:27

JohnOfOrdo3: Nov 7, 2011; My other car is an asteroid

Doodmons posted:

I'll be completely honest, a brief skim led me to believe that an actual Tarot deck was required. Which is fine by me, I've got a few lying around the place. It seemed a lot cooler to actually be using the Tarot deck out of character.

It would certainly help someone keep in character, but not everyone has access to a Tarot deck. Also some decks have different cards/Arcana to others, depending on the philosophy of the person who made it. Guess a little house ruling might be needed to work out which cards respond to which Arcana if you're not using a deck based off of the Rider Waite deck.

# ? Jul 6, 2014 14:21

Ratpick: Oct 9, 2012; And no one ate dinner that night.

Alright, I'm turning to you, the good people of the Dungeon World thread, for advice: I intend to run Dungeon World at a con three weeks from now, and I need to sign up to run games at the con within a week. Thing is, I've got terrible writer's block.

The idea was that I'd run three groups through the same "scenario," being basically a bare-bones outline of a starting situation, and then seeing where each of the three groups take it. Problem is, I can't for the life of me think of a good starting point.

Ideas I've had, but have rejected for being too mundane, include:
Storming an evil wizard's tower in search of some magical McGuffin (the nature of the McGuffin being determined by player input).
The city the players are in being under attack by a dragon.
The players are all in a tavern when suddenly zombies start bursting in through the doors and windows.

I'd really appreciate if you all could help me either come up with something entirely novel, or help me work on one of the above ideas to make it more interesting.

# ? Jul 6, 2014 21:02

Androc: Dec 26, 2008

Ratpick posted:

The city the players are in being under attack by a dragon.

Alternative interpretation: the players have been hired by a private organization to investigate the administration of Mayor Goldenclaw who, among other things, is accused of vote-fixing, nepotism, and sleeping in a literal horde of illicit kickbacks.

# ? Jul 6, 2014 21:17

Error 404: Jul 17, 2009; MAGE CURES PLOT

Ratpick posted:

Alright, I'm turning to you, the good people of the Dungeon World thread, for advice: I intend to run Dungeon World at a con three weeks from now, and I need to sign up to run games at the con within a week. Thing is, I've got terrible writer's block.

The idea was that I'd run three groups through the same "scenario," being basically a bare-bones outline of a starting situation, and then seeing where each of the three groups take it. Problem is, I can't for the life of me think of a good starting point.

Ideas I've had, but have rejected for being too mundane, include:
Storming an evil wizard's tower in search of some magical McGuffin (the nature of the McGuffin being determined by player input).
The city the players are in being under attack by a dragon.
The players are all in a tavern when suddenly zombies start bursting in through the doors and windows.

I'd really appreciate if you all could help me either come up with something entirely novel, or help me work on one of the above ideas to make it more interesting.

REMIX!

The evil wizard's tower the players are guarding suddenly overrun as zombies start bursting in through the doors and windows determined to capture said magical McGuffin.

:smaug:

# ? Jul 6, 2014 21:26

slydingdoor: Oct 26, 2010; Are you in or are you out?

They're planning an escape from prison together when zombies and necromancers attack. One or more of the players might be a corrupt guard. One or more of them might be a necromancer mole who recognizes the guard and the inmate player(s) and might have a change of heart. One particular target of the necromancers is a really powerful inmate that they want as a zombie hulk, maybe another player. The militia will be called in to kill everything on sight.

# ? Jul 6, 2014 21:36

Ratpick: Oct 9, 2012; And no one ate dinner that night.

slydingdoor posted:

They're planning an escape from prison together when zombies and necromancers attack. One or more of the players might be a corrupt guard. One or more of them might be a necromancer mole who recognizes the guard and the inmate player(s) and might have a change of heart. One particular target of the necromancers is a really powerful inmate that they want as a zombie hulk, maybe another player. The militia will be called in to kill everything on sight.

Incidentally, that doesn't seem to be too far off from the plot of this Dungeon Starter I found: http://www.finemessgames.com/DWsupplements/dungeonstarters/The%20Escape.pdf?attredirects=0

Thanks for the input, I'm finally starting to get there. With any luck I'll have a serviceable idea in a few days.

# ? Jul 7, 2014 00:35

Arashiofordo3: Nov 5, 2010; Warning, Internet
may prove lethal.

Fantastic. Let us know how it goes and what you decided to run. I do enjoy stories of other props games. It always gets me thinking of how I run games and how to allter that to running dungeon world.

# ? Jul 7, 2014 12:16

Blasphemeral: Jul 26, 2012; Three mongrel men in exchange for a party member? I found that one in the Faustian Bargain Bin.

I need a playbook/CC for a character that has connections to, control over, or kinship with shadows, darkness, or the night. Is there such a thing? If so, where could I find it?

# ? Jul 7, 2014 17:40

Error 404: Jul 17, 2009; MAGE CURES PLOT

Blasphemeral posted:

I need a playbook/CC for a character that has connections to, control over, or kinship with shadows, darkness, or the night. Is there such a thing? If so, where could I find it?

Closest I can think of is City Thief, but that's not a perfect fit, still you might be able to snag a few moves and alter them into the CC you need.

# ? Jul 7, 2014 17:45

Arashiofordo3: Nov 5, 2010; Warning, Internet
may prove lethal.

Blasphemeral posted:

I need a playbook/CC for a character that has connections to, control over, or kinship with shadows, darkness, or the night. Is there such a thing? If so, where could I find it?

There is also the assassin that was based off of Corvo from Dishonored. That's got a few shadowy moves. But for the most part I don't think anyones tackled a darkness based playbook completely short of picking an Elementaist and having your element be Shadow.

# ? Jul 7, 2014 18:15

Androc: Dec 26, 2008

Blasphemeral posted:

I need a playbook/CC for a character that has connections to, control over, or kinship with shadows, darkness, or the night. Is there such a thing? If so, where could I find it?

I was actually working on something like that a while back! It's not polished, but here's what I've got:

quote:

Shadow Mage
When you face a great trial in a place of darkness, you may take this move when you next level up:
Your Better Half
When you attempt to steal the shadow of a living creature, roll +int. On a 10+, you get it with no one the wiser. On a 7-9, choose 1.
� Somebody or something dangerous notices what you�ve done.
� Somebody else�s shadow is bound up with your target�s.
� The shadow is unusually tenacious in its attempts to rejoin its master.
So long as the shadow is prevented from escaping, it is a valuable focus for affecting its master with magic.
Once you have taken Your Better Half, you may take any of the following moves in place of an advance:

Shadow Puppet
When you make camp, you may detach your shadow. A detached shadow shares your appearance and abilities, and you can act with is as easily as you could with your own body. The first time one of your two bodies would take damage, decide if it was you or your shadow; if the latter, your shadow instantly dissipates and returns to your side.
Once you have taken Shadow Puppet, you may take any of the following moves in place of an advance:

My Better Half
As long as your shadow remains attached to you, it can solidify and take one of the following forms (shifting its form takes an unhurried moment of concentration):
� Wings of Night: You may glide from any height without taking damage.
� Obscuring Veil: As long as you are not in direct light, you are invisible.
� Obsidian Talons: Your unarmed attacks gain the �messy� tag and you can climb up walls as quickly as you can move across the ground.

An Exquisite Vintage
When you consume the shadow of a living being, roll +int. On a 10+, choose 2. On a 7-9, choose 1.
� You learn something useful that the shadow�s master knows.
� You gain 1d8 hit points.
� The shadow�s master begins to waste away, and will die in a week without outside intervention.

# ? Jul 7, 2014 19:24

Lemon-Lime: Aug 6, 2009

Blasphemeral posted:

I need a playbook/CC for a character that has connections to, control over, or kinship with shadows, darkness, or the night. Is there such a thing? If so, where could I find it?

The Assassin has some shadow magic and the City Thief can hide in shadows - you can probably cobble something from the two. Links to the full playbooks should be in the OP.

# ? Jul 7, 2014 20:12

MadScientistWorking: Jun 23, 2010; "I was going through a time period where I was looking up weird stories involving necrophilia..."

Blasphemeral posted:

I need a playbook/CC for a character that has connections to, control over, or kinship with shadows, darkness, or the night. Is there such a thing? If so, where could I find it?

I don't know why, how, or the logic behind it but you want Rainlord. :psyduck:

# ? Jul 7, 2014 20:13

Deltasquid: Apr 10, 2013; awww...
you guys made me ink!

THUNDERDOME

Reskinning the Rainlord would actually work for that, I think.

# ? Jul 7, 2014 21:26

Mr. Maltose: Feb 16, 2011; The Guffless Girlverine

Pretty sure shadow is one of the three Rainlord "races" already.

# ? Jul 7, 2014 21:32

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# ? Jun 3, 2024 15:16

Shamblercow: Jan 5, 2006; Moo.

I wrote a Shadow Dancer class that might fit:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1iRxeUFj9ete1gDsHs3cQ-7lbreRTrF3T_AVW4qvBZbk/edit?usp=sharing

quote:

STARTING MOVES
You start with these moves:

In Your Element
As a shadow dancer, you have an affinity with the shadows cast by light. All of your powers work when you are in shadow. When there is no light present, you are not considered to be in shadow. Additionally, when you attack from the shadows, deal +1 damage. When you attack while bathed in light, natural or otherwise, deal -1 damage (minimum 1).

Shadow Dance
When you are under duress and dance from one shadow to another shadow you can see, roll+DEX. On a 10+, you shift to the other shadow in an instant, ready to act immediately. On a 7-9, choose two. On a 6-, choose one and the DM shows you how dangerous a dance in the dark can be:

You shift to the shadow you intended.
You shift to the shadow in an instant.
You shift to the shadow and are not disoriented.
If you are not under duress, you can dance between shadows you can see freely.

Lost in the Dark
When you steal a distant object from within a shadow you can see, roll+DEX. On a 10+, you get the object without incident. On a 7-9, choose two:

You don't make any noise
No one will notice it's missing for a while
You don't damage the object
On a miss, you still get the object, but your theft has been detected.

Eavesdropper
When you gather information in a place where many people meet and share indiscretions, you can roll+DEX for Discern Realities, and add the following questions to the list:

What are the people in this area worried about?
What strange events have happened nearby?
What secret did this person let slip?
What are the dominant factions in the area?

# ? Jul 8, 2014 04:49

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > Dungeon World Thread (Messy, Forceful, Stunning)

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