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poo poo not pissing me off: We're getting SSD's in our desktop refresh! The tipping point for him was the secure erase command. Once I pointed out secure ATA can flush a drive in minutes instead of hours; he agreed to it!
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Jul 3, 2014 22:29
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Commodore 64 posted:poo poo not pissing me off: We're getting SSD's in our desktop refresh! Nice work! Just don't tell him that "undelete" aka "find out the dodgy things a suspicious employee has been up to" kinda goes out of the window due to TRIM...
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Jul 3, 2014 22:56
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anthonypants posted:If someone says they had a BSOD and there's a bugcheck code in the event viewer, my first step is plugging that number into Google. gently caress you. Google is not your first step. You know what a BSOD is and have looked in the event viewer and found a bugcheck code. You have perfomed what HR would put on an advert as "High level desktop troubleshooting". The people who struggle with basic troubleshooting need to be asked, "What did the event log say". Repeatedly.
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Jul 4, 2014 00:00
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KennyTheFish posted:Google is not your first step. You know what a BSOD is and have looked in the event viewer and found a bugcheck code. You have perfomed what HR would put on an advert as "High level desktop troubleshooting". The people who struggle with basic troubleshooting need to be asked, "What did the event log say". Repeatedly. vibur posted:I have no reservations about googling that 0x code in front of someone to find out an answer. mAlfunkti0n posted:Hate to burst his (and perhaps your) bubble, but this is completely wrong. Our jobs are not "googling" things to see how they are done. Yes, we do that from time to time, but we (should!) have a base set of skills that allow us to get to the point where we understand what we need to search for. If searching Google is the first step you take, perhaps this is the wrong line of work.
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Jul 4, 2014 00:04
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Rawrbomb posted:If you can get the T2/3 line techs to come to your house, they will fix poo poo the first time. These guys are actually employed by TWC and not third party contractors. Oh, I am not a TWC customer at home. Cablevision is my current ISP and also my parents', and I have never had trouble with them even when my father and I took the trap off of the line into the house when they moved since it was Friday night and we'll be goddamned if there's not gonna be TV over the weekend.
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Jul 4, 2014 01:47
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BaseballPCHiker posted:What you mean you dont memorize things like Reset input pipe failed (0xc000000e)? I'm never afraid to Google something. Sure it's nice to be able to know all of the basics in your head but if SCCM spits off some random error like this I'm checking Google. You do need to know enough to be able to find the pertinent info out of everything out there. Moreover, I don't trust people who say they have long lists of error codes memorised to not be blowing smoke out their arse and wasting everyones time. Peoples memories are just not that good. Not only am I not afraid to google something, but I think that people should be googling things, regularly. The internet is better at long term storage then your meat disk drive, use the tools at your disposal for christs sake. You'd consult the manual, wouldn't you?
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Jul 4, 2014 02:41
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Sir_Substance posted:Moreover, I don't trust people who say they have long lists of error codes memorised to not be blowing smoke out their arse and wasting everyones time. Peoples memories are just not that good. Not only am I not afraid to google something, but I think that people should be googling things, regularly. The internet is better at long term storage then your meat disk drive, use the tools at your disposal for christs sake. You'd consult the manual, wouldn't you? I don't have every BSOD memorized but there are a few common ones. Also some of them are pretty clear what the source is, most are not clear and are obscure. Really if you see BSOD's you should examine the event log to see if it's a recurring event or a one off anomaly. If dump files are available running them through an analyzer such as Microsoft Crash Analyzer included in MDOP can point out a faulty driver. Basic hardware tests especially RAM are a good idea. Almost all BSOD's I've seen have been caused by faulty hardware or drivers. Checking recently updated/installed software and drivers is important too. Microsoft has a great tool called driver verifier built into windows that essentially stress tests the drivers and can help isolate out drivers as the cause of the issue. Most of the stuff above goes far above simply Googling the bug check code. Most of the process I learned from googling the process of troubleshooting BSOD's.
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Jul 4, 2014 03:10
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Sir_Substance posted:Moreover, I don't trust people who say they have long lists of error codes memorised to not be blowing smoke out their arse and wasting everyones time. Peoples memories are just not that good. Not only am I not afraid to google something, but I think that people should be googling things, regularly. The internet is better at long term storage then your meat disk drive, use the tools at your disposal for christs sake. You'd consult the manual, wouldn't you? Back when i was doing basic support at a 2nd line helldesk, i knew most of the standard outlook error poo poo but that was just because you'd run into it several times a day.
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Jul 4, 2014 05:14
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Inspector_666 posted:Oh, I am not a TWC customer at home. Cablevision is my current ISP and also my parents', and I have never had trouble with them even when my father and I took the trap off of the line into the house when they moved since it was Friday night and we'll be goddamned if there's not gonna be TV over the weekend. You can still get line techs out for business. I have told a few friends to use the weather excuse (it gets crappy during weather) with TWC business connections and then they send line techs out and they do actual checking/work and fix problems. Instead of passing the buck. Its pretty amazing really. Its all about knowing how their poo poo works.
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Jul 4, 2014 05:43
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Memorising BSOD codes sounds stupid. This is definitely a job for google. I'll just use BluescreenView if the error code doesnt already tell me whats happening.
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Jul 4, 2014 06:17
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Windows hex error codes can be translated right at your computer, no Google required. End up googling the error message most of the time anyway.
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Jul 4, 2014 11:46
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mysteryberto posted:Really if you see BSOD's you should examine the event log to see if it's a recurring event or a one off anomaly. If dump files are available running them through an analyzer such as Microsoft Crash Analyzer included in MDOP can point out a faulty driver. Basic hardware tests especially RAM are a good idea. Almost all BSOD's I've seen have been caused by faulty hardware or drivers. Checking recently updated/installed software and drivers is important too. That's fantastic but if I were your supervisor I would tell you to google the BSOD error first to ensure you don't mis-remember what it is and spend a day dicking around looking for the wrong thing before you finally run out of pride. Seriously, it takes 30 seconds, there's nothing wrong with due diligence. AzMiLion posted:Back when i was doing basic support at a 2nd line helldesk, i knew most of the standard outlook error poo poo but that was just because you'd run into it several times a day. I'm pretty similar with programming languages, but I get in arguments with Real Programmers™ all the time over this. Basically, my standpoint is that your head should be your L1 cache and ram, but in fact it's very responsible to use the internet as your hard drive (see above statement about wasting time because you're too proud to google things). If you are working with something daily, you shouldn't need to google it. Having to google something you did yesterday is not a sign of a switched on IT professional. If you work with BSOD codes all day then fine, don't worry about it. Strange job you have there though, possibly you're loving other things up if BSOD's are a daily occurrence? But if it's been a fortnight since you last did it, you should be referencing something, I don't care if it's google or the manual or a colleague. Take 30 seconds to make sure you aren't making minor but costly fuckups, it's better in the long run. IT is not a drag race, seconds do not count. Many a "secure" system has been rendered swiss cheese because someone forgot to change a flag somewhere.
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Jul 4, 2014 13:10
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Google is well and good, but sometimes it pays to bookmark an actual reference.  NTSTATUS values It's not complete but this has helped me a lot.
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Jul 4, 2014 13:30
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"I'm not really a genius with computers. I'm just better at Google than you" I do think that the main reason I'm still employed is that everyone who isn't in IT sucks at Google, or is too scared to input stuff into it.
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Jul 4, 2014 17:07
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GargleBlaster posted:"I'm not really a genius with computers. I'm just better at Google than you" Aside from googling, it's having an analytical mindset and an interest in problem solving.
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Jul 4, 2014 17:16
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And an ability to recognize and not click a malicious ad in the search results pointing to free-clip-art-usa.ru.
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Jul 4, 2014 19:17
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Volmarias posted:Aside from googling, it's having an analytical mindset and an interest in problem solving. Hm. Todays example:  How do I import google calendar to outlook? *roll on my chair to his computer, type "How do I import google calendar to outlook", click first link* Thanks!
canis minor fucked around with this message at 19:28 on Jul 4, 2014 |
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Jul 4, 2014 19:18
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True, true  To us with logical and analytical minds, it always seems like the muggles have their brains turned off - the fun world of different ways of thinking...
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Jul 4, 2014 20:34
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eithedog posted:
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Jul 5, 2014 05:50
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Back office agent: "[Servicer X] hasn't received any emails from us for 5 days. Can you check to see if there's anything wrong with the system?" Me: "We haven't made any changes recently, and there's no error that could affect sending to a single contact. It's more than likely something their end. Get them to check with their IT". Agent: "Their IT said they couldn't find anything. Can you check our system?" Me: "Sure, why not." (Pretends am going to check) 4 hours later. Agent: "Oh, by the way EvilGenius, [servicer] rang, they found the problem".
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Jul 5, 2014 09:26
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Users that don't know how to use computers even though it's required for their job. When asked to think even a little outside the box they just go lol computer illiterate. I don't understand how anyone puts up with that attitude, even outside the support role. This person is not going to be productive and contributing to the organization if they have to be spoonfed everything they didn't rote memorize like a trained monkey. I've had to deal with extremely elderly users that somehow get positions doing telecommuting that are utterly and completely lost outside the narrow task they do. They aren't of any use to the organization when they go down for days because they forgot their passwords again and almost literally die from the journey of bringing their machine in. Almost any other skill, they will fire you if you don't have it and won't learn. If you're a truck driver and can't drive stick, you're done. If you're a baker and can't measure and portion, you're done. You don't get to sit there and go lol I can't math where's my paycheck. Why people get a pass when it comes to computers is beyond me. This isn't even about making our jobs easier, it's about their ability to even do theirs.
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Jul 6, 2014 08:49
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skooma512 posted:Users that don't know how to use computers even though it's required for their job. When asked to think even a little outside the box they just go lol computer illiterate. Because there's still a huge crop of lower- and middle-level managers who are just as computer illiterate as their employees, and they know that if they fire someone for being unable to perform the work they'll open themselves up to the same treatment since they've always been "Aww, call IT and have them send one of the computer nerds up here to teach you." And it's not just the fact that these people are older - there are actually a huge number of younger people who've literally grown up with technology and used it every day who are also completely clueless as to how to use it without being trained for a specific role. They've never built a computer, never had to troubleshoot anything, and don't know the first thing about setting any of that poo poo up. The fact is that unless a person possesses even the slightest amount of curiosity then they'll pretty much always be technically illiterate. Curiosity is necessary to overcome the fear that they're about to break some very expensive piece of equipment if they do even the tiniest thing outside the scope of exactly what they've been trained. And let's face it - companies are not exactly bastions of independent thought and action, and it would be very easy for a manager to crush anyone they thought was breaking company equipment, especially if they have no clue how it works to begin with.
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Jul 6, 2014 12:29
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Daylen Drazzi posted:The fact is that unless a person possesses even the slightest amount of curiosity then they'll pretty much always be technically illiterate. Curiosity is necessary to overcome the fear that they're about to break some very expensive piece of equipment if they do even the tiniest thing outside the scope of exactly what they've been trained. And let's face it - companies are not exactly bastions of independent thought and action, and it would be very easy for a manager to crush anyone they thought was breaking company equipment, especially if they have no clue how it works to begin with. These are great points, and it's given me some food for thought. Putting on my "IT leadership" hat for a second:
The easy action is to do nothing, but tech illiterate users are a higher security risk: they're more vulnerable to social engineering attacks, they're more likely to blindly trust any installer than tries to run on their machine, and they're probably not very good at spotting phishing scams. If you're in charge of the data security at your company, how can you afford not to address problems like this? Christ, this poo poo is too heady for a Sunday morning.
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Jul 6, 2014 14:37
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I think it's a larger issue than IT can solve. IT can create a culture where their staff don't give people poo poo for not knowing stuff (e.g. don't be the stereotypical IT department. If something can't be done then the answer "no" should be followed by "but we can do this"). If the issue is a user training one then there should be a department resourced to deal with that, it's not the job of helpdesk. The user training part and the time for people to experiment with stuff and the attitude towards learning is something that can't and shouldn't be on IT to do.
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Jul 6, 2014 14:58
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I remember an operations manager laughing at me when I suggested that people on overnight shifts at the NOC should get trained on the programs they used instead of paging out the application admins for any little question. His point was if someone had any brains they weren't going to work nights for 15/hr. My response was  6 months later.
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Jul 6, 2014 15:44
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The manager does have a point. When I was in the MSP game we had literally one person show the aptitude to come out of 3rd shift support and join the engineering team. The rest would surf the internet all night, come in half stoned/drunk, late all the time, etc. This guy showed drive and a willingness to learn. He picked up after hours maintenance projects frequently. He was one out of ten employees of that shift? Fifteen? That was over a multi-year period of time. I can't blame it on the people 100%, though. That company's internal training and metric tracking was horrendous.
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Jul 6, 2014 16:11
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All of our job descriptions for the office jobs (and a lot of the factory jobs) have "must be computer literate" so technically it could be fireable, though they'd never put something like that into practice unless they were already looking to get rid of them (basically, piss off the senior management, and they will find something). And it never seems to have much of a bearing on whether they get hired. Also probably the most clueless of our computer users are the people in HR so they will have sympathy.
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Jul 6, 2014 19:19
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slartibartfast posted:
Not end users but my CIO talked about giving a Get Out of Jail card to the IT staff. (I'm sure there are some caveats like blowing up prod systems by willfully not following procedures.)
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Jul 7, 2014 02:33
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tomapot posted:Not end users but my CIO talked about giving a Get Out of Jail card to the IT staff. (I'm sure there are some caveats like blowing up prod systems by willfully not following procedures.) Hahaha what severity of catastrophe would that protect from
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Jul 7, 2014 03:04
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tomapot posted:Not end users but my CIO talked about giving a Get Out of Jail card to the IT staff. (I'm sure there are some caveats like blowing up prod systems by willfully not following procedures.) This is still bad because instead of having it be "gently caress up and you're fired", it's just "gently caress up twice and you're fired".
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Jul 7, 2014 03:18
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EAT THE EGGS RICOLA posted:This is still bad because instead of having it be "gently caress up and you're fired", it's just "gently caress up twice and you're fired". In a company that is really innovative on the customer-facing side and cranks out crazy patents our internal IT is still kinda pedestrian. I think it was a way to get people to innovate without fear for their jobs (within limits).
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Jul 7, 2014 04:12
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Really, in a properly managed company, a single incident shouldn't immediately lead to firing unless it was willful negligence, deliberate maliciousness, insubordination, dishonesty, or illegal activity. Companies where one honest mistake gets you fired either think managing via fear is the best approach, have lazy management who find a "zero tolerance" policy easier to enforce than actually evaluating their staff's non-quantifiable abilities, or have someone at the top who just wants to demonstrate their power by punishing people when something goes wrong instead of doing something constructive (which then rolls downhill to the lowest guy involved, since no matter how well you get along with your manager, they ain't gonna take a bullet for you). Now, if a mistake was part of a larger pattern of gently caress-ups (making the same errors repeatedly, or constantly screwing up different things related to your job that you really shouldn't be screwing up based on your supposed skill level), that's a different story, but even in that case, a manager should have discussed things with the problematic employee at some point and tried to figure out how to help them improve. If nothing was ever said until the employee screwed up for the Xth time and suddenly got fired, that's also poor management.
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Jul 7, 2014 04:30
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The context of the conversation is, "what can a company do to create an environment where fear does not rule everyone's actions and instead encourages them to experiment and grow?" The problem is not an individual company, it's that we live in a litigious society where everyone is looking to cover their own rear end and witch hunt for someone to blame (rightly or wrongly) when anything goes wrong. So the default attitude from employees is going to be, "keep my head down, don't gently caress up" even if the company wants its employees to experiment and grow. Therefore the company has to make the first move if it wants employees' attitudes to change. I don't think "get out of jail free" cards for everyone necessarily does the trick though; someone could as easily interpret that as, "you only get one fuckup, after that you're on death watch." I think the only way to send the right message is to act the right way. That is, don't make some gimmick or production out of it. When someone fucks up (and they will, even if they aren't trying to experiment), there will be no under-bus-throwing. If a mistake resulted in a big problem, sure have meetings and maybe discuss if the processes and documentation are clear enough, if expectations are clear enough, make any changes that need to be made. But at no point do you hold that incident against an individual. Correct the mistake without punishing. Obviously this has limits, gross negligence or maliciousness should not be subject to this restraint.
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Jul 7, 2014 04:59
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Che Delilas posted:The context of the conversation is, "what can a company do to create an environment where fear does not rule everyone's actions and instead encourages them to experiment and grow?" The problem is not an individual company, it's that we live in a litigious society where everyone is looking to cover their own rear end and witch hunt for someone to blame (rightly or wrongly) when anything goes wrong. So the default attitude from employees is going to be, "keep my head down, don't gently caress up" even if the company wants its employees to experiment and grow. I'm still a fan of the company sponsored personal project time. That concept could easily be expanded to company sponsored professional expertise trade time. Just make Friday from 12 until 5:30 a timeslot dedicated to allowing HR to learn how to use CAD tools or IT how to use nailguns. Whatever.
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Jul 7, 2014 07:12
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Daylen Drazzi posted:Because there's still a huge crop of lower- and middle-level managers who are just as computer illiterate as their employees, and they know that if they fire someone for being unable to perform the work they'll open themselves up to the same treatment since they've always been "Aww, call IT and have them send one of the computer nerds up here to teach you." In my current organisation, a Public Library, there's the tendency to put the blame on IT for everything and being able to solve simple problems (or at least explain them in a manner that's helpful to IT or the Patron) would ruin part of that narrative (like: "printer problems" being more often than not refilling a stack of paper). I've been pushing for certificates and courses, but they have been deemed "too technical" by my supervisor, yet she expects me to instruct my colleagues on these things (like sorting a row in Excel) during my reference desk duties. Now that I'm leaving suddenly everyone realises it's not that smart to throw up your arms going "What is this witchcraft? I didn't sign up for this!" when you encounter a problem and wait for me to come down from the heavens. quote:And it's not just the fact that these people are older - there are actually a huge number of younger people who've literally grown up with technology and used it every day who are also completely clueless as to how to use it without being trained for a specific role. They've never built a computer, never had to troubleshoot anything, and don't know the first thing about setting any of that poo poo up. This is also due to their parents that keep kids away from as much of that stuff as possible to stop them messing things up. Poorer kids usually get no computer at all (they have to use the locked down library computers), Richer kids get a Tablet or a Laptop that is locked down. Parents also overestimate the kids' skill level by a huge margin and you regularly break their little hearts when you say (very politely) that their kids are worse with computers than the 85 year old sitting next to them. quote:The fact is that unless a person possesses even the slightest amount of curiosity then they'll pretty much always be technically illiterate. Curiosity is necessary to overcome the fear that they're about to break some very expensive piece of equipment if they do even the tiniest thing outside the scope of exactly what they've been trained. And let's face it - companies are not exactly bastions of independent thought and action, and it would be very easy for a manager to crush anyone they thought was breaking company equipment, especially if they have no clue how it works to begin with. Curiosity and Confidence. Confidence in this context also means the ability to admit that you have no clue and you need to gather information before you can figure out what's wrong.
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Jul 7, 2014 09:15
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Things not pissing me off, just convinced my manager that passing along a ticket for a hardware replacement after diagnosing the problem is something we should get credit for in our metrics. I think they just became doable 
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Jul 7, 2014 10:38
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So today I learned that there literally is a conspiracy against me by my Boss and at least two coworkers. I can't even express how I feel at this point.
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Jul 7, 2014 13:34
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SEKCobra posted:So today I learned that there literally is a conspiracy against me by my Boss and at least two coworkers. I can't even express how I feel at this point. You know, you could elaborate.
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Jul 7, 2014 13:38
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Sickening posted:You know, you could elaborate. Apparently they are logging "mistakes" and "work refusals" I am making, like today they wrote down that I didn't answer a phone within the first ten seconds of it ringing. Nvm the fact that its even a coworkers phone.
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Jul 7, 2014 13:50
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The answer to this is clearly to log them logging these mistakes as they do it, noting why its not your fuckup. You should also try to leave. That works too.
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Jul 7, 2014 14:10
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