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Selklubber posted:Vito is so happy, looking at antiques and eating Johnny Cakes. Fixed that for you.
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Jul 1, 2014 23:43
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Pope Corky the IX posted:Fixed that for you. For real, those Johnny Cakes looked delicious.
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Jul 2, 2014 16:19
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Ton', you give this guy a golf club, he might try to gently caress it.
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Jul 2, 2014 19:15
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Steve2911 posted:Agreed. After all the seasons of poo poo that you watch these guys do, all the death and destruction they cause, it was only that arc and its resolution that made the 'gently caress these cunts' switch in my head flick on. Yea Adrianna's final scenes really changed the way I saw the main crew from that point on. Especially Sil. I know it could have been any of the guys that drew that assignment, but in the end it was Sil who I watched slowly pursue Adrianna in a Terminatoresque fashion and execute her in cold blood. It was a little harder to laugh at his funnier moments after that.
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Jul 2, 2014 19:41
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Basebf555 posted:Yea Adrianna's final scenes really changed the way I saw the main crew from that point on. Especially Sil. I know it could have been any of the guys that drew that assignment, but in the end it was Sil who I watched slowly pursue Adrianna in a Terminatoresque fashion and execute her in cold blood. It was a little harder to laugh at his funnier moments after that. Snitches get stitches. Bitch had it coming.
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Jul 2, 2014 20:04
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The plot where Sil basically owns that woman as some kind of indentured sex slave (because he paid for her apartment or something?) was pretty hosed up, I found him hard to like after that.
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Jul 2, 2014 20:25
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Tender Bender posted:The plot where Sil basically owns that woman as some kind of indentured sex slave (because he paid for her apartment or something?) was pretty hosed up, I found him hard to like after that. It was the way he was with all his strippers. He said it was usually for breast implants but for Tracee( She was a HOOORE) it was for braces.
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Jul 2, 2014 20:33
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Tender Bender posted:The plot where Sil basically owns that woman as some kind of indentured sex slave (because he paid for her apartment or something?) was pretty hosed up, I found him hard to like after that. He talks about it in the ho-oar episode while he admonishes Ralphie. Basically explains how he owns all those women and they'll never get out. There are predatory clubs like that in Hawaii where managers will extort thousands out of dancers in the same way.
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Jul 2, 2014 20:33
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It's almost like the entire mafia is filled with bad guys
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Jul 2, 2014 21:12
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hhhmmm posted:It's almost like the entire mafia is filled with bad guys The Pope should do something about it, but what can he do, Paulie donated money to the Church which absolutely guarantees him protection from damnation! Edit: In all seriousness though, I love the scene in the penultimate (I think?) episode where Melfi finally grasps that Tony is a sociopath who she will never be able to fix, and that she is actually just enabling his monstrousness by allowing him to at least think he is trying to be a better person (while subconsciously learning how to better hide his criminal acts). Jerusalem fucked around with this message at 22:54 on Jul 2, 2014 |
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Jul 2, 2014 22:52
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Mr. Nice! posted:He talks about it in the ho-oar episode while he admonishes Ralphie. Basically explains how he owns all those women and they'll never get out. There are predatory clubs like that in Hawaii where managers will extort thousands out of dancers in the same way. That's especially heinous because the cost of escaping Hawaii is exponentially higher than if you lived somewhere in the lower 48, since you're going to have to buy an incredibly expensive plane ticket and oops you're already broke because your boss keeps all your money.
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Jul 2, 2014 22:54
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Jerusalem posted:In all seriousness though, I love the scene in the penultimate (I think?) episode where Melfi finally grasps that Tony is a sociopath who she will never be able to fix, and that she is actually just enabling his monstrousness by allowing him to at least think he is trying to be a better person (while subconsciously learning how to better hide his criminal acts). If you read the actual study she reads in that scene, it doesn't say that he is a sociopath who she could never fix (and that whole logic seems really against her character) but rather it states that talk-therapy is useless against socio/psychopaths unless they come clean, and are completely honest from the very beginning about everything. Allowing them to hide anything, leads to the subconscious re-enforcement of deceptive behavior. Not to mention allowing Tony to gloss over/hide his actions from his therapist means he never has to actually confront those issues which are so tied to his psychology. Melfi hosed up her treatment by being too optimistic about what she could achieve with Tony and how to achieve it. Not to mention the entire blowing him off at the end being extremely emotionally charged, and really is a very tragic scene for her in that she fails at saving a person she fought for when everyone else wrote him off. And her final gently caress up is pretty strongly influenced by bad advice, peer pressure, and stereotyping. I honestly don't understand how people come to the conclusion that Tony had could never have been fixed and was somehow forever destined to be a criminal. That's the kind of poo poo that would make Melfi mad if you said that poo poo around her, you're essentially sharing Tony's sentiment that therapy doesn't work and it's all just a big scam that can never actually change people. I mean the show was pretty hardcore about the crime thing not just being all on them, there's tons of political, social and cultural factors that are involved, not to mention the psychological ones. Tony wasn't born a monster, and he wasn't destined to die a monster. He was, like everyone strongly shaped by his environment growing up, which involved a lot of violence and indoctrination into a cult-like group. I mean they even said that's why they didn't have his head blown off on-screen, they didn't want to give people the satisfaction of them reveling in the chaos, misery and violence that is Tony's life, and then watch him die for it while they get to sit back and be smug about how much better than Tony they are morally. Hell, if Melfi wasn't in such a charged mood she might have been successful in getting Tony off on a behaviorist to begin a regimen of treatment more in-line with the study she read that made her give up on Tony. Instead, thanks to social and political pressure she loses it in a moment of anger that isn't even really directed at Tony, but at herself for messing up the treatment and really, letting Tony down in the way he always said she would. I didn't mean to go off on one at you, but I always had an issue with that interpretation of the ending. PootieTang fucked around with this message at 23:38 on Jul 2, 2014 |
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Jul 2, 2014 23:35
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PootieTang posted:I didn't mean to go off on one at you, but I always had an issue with that interpretation of the ending. Don't apologize, it's definitely a subject that should be discussed more (it tends to get lost in discussion of what exactly happened in the final scene) and my post was a very generalized reading of the scene. I always took issue with the unprofessional way Melfi's associate exposes to their friends that Tony is her patient, and agree that she was facing a great deal of peer pressure/external influences in her decision. But I do think she needed to have her eyes opened that she'd fallen into the trap of essentially enabling Tony by letting him pick and choose what he wanted to discuss and not pushing him too heavily in directions he didn't want to go. Of course nobody is unfixable, but I do think that Tony was never going to get better as a person or truly grasp the enormity of the actions he had taken if he'd stayed with her as a therapist. It had become an unhealthy relationship where she got to have the vicarious thrill of hearing about his criminal lifestyle and he got to pat himself on the back and tell himself he was trying to be a better person while just going further down the rabbit hole of excess.
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Jul 3, 2014 00:00
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Whenever I rewatch episodes I'm always amazed at how poorly Tony runs his organization. It seems like they only thing they can reliable accomplish is killing potential rats before they reveal too much. Also, how much money did people like Paulie and Sil take in a month on average? When Paulie gave his sports betting to Chris there was a 5 points/$8k a week minimum. 5 points is 5% so either the betting generated $160k a week or Chris was just being squeezed like crazy. It just seemed like most of them were barely scraping by financially half the time.
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Jul 5, 2014 10:03
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pentyne posted:Whenever I rewatch episodes I'm always amazed at how poorly Tony runs his organization. It seems like they only thing they can reliable accomplish is killing potential rats before they reveal too much. There's also the fact that a huge portion of anyone's take is then kicked up to the next level. Soldier, Capo, Boss, etc. That's why they'd look for ways to make money in literally any situation, like with the whole landscaping war between Paulie and Feech.
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Jul 5, 2014 12:50
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Pope Corky the IX posted:There's also the fact that a huge portion of anyone's take is then kicked up to the next level. Soldier, Capo, Boss, etc. That's why they'd look for ways to make money in literally any situation, like with the whole landscaping war between Paulie and Feech. That's just Paulie's nature though, and mob guy mentality of exploiting any weakness to justify their superiority over the everyday 9-5 jerkoffs.
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Jul 5, 2014 15:04
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It's a pyramid scam that leaves everyone basically living paycheck to paycheck. The cash-only nature of the business and the need to maintain an ostentatious lifestyle doesn't leave much room for long-term financial stability. The old guys who got pretty high up but didn't move into McMansions and drive Hummers or Benzes were probably the best off, but didn't show it.
withak fucked around with this message at 20:12 on Jul 5, 2014 |
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Jul 5, 2014 20:07
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withak posted:It's a pyramid scam that leaves everyone basically living paycheck to paycheck. The cash-only nature of the business and the need to maintain an ostentatious lifestyle doesn't leave much room for long-term financial stability. The old guys who got pretty high up but didn't move into McMansions and drive Hummers or Benzes were probably the best off, but didn't show it. I was always amused by how Chris was the youngest member by decades, probably because all the others youngish mobsters were killed or took the fall for the older members. Paulie in particular treated him like absolute poo poo and would harass the poo poo out of Chris if he ever complained to Tony.
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Jul 6, 2014 10:33
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pentyne posted:I was always amused by how Chris was the youngest member by decades, probably because all the others youngish mobsters were killed or took the fall for the older members. Paulie in particular treated him like absolute poo poo and would harass the poo poo out of Chris if he ever complained to Tony. I thought there were younger members, but they were the absolute lowest of the low street-level enforcers, robbers and dealers. I just assumed Chris jumped up the 'company' ladder because of his connections, but wasn't allowed to progress after that because (as you say) the older members always take precedence. I suppose it was ridiculously unsustainable, and there was laughably little there to replace the organization once the older generation died/got locked up/went all Junior in the mental department.
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Jul 6, 2014 10:41
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Steve2911 posted:I thought there were younger members, but they were the absolute lowest of the low street-level enforcers, robbers and dealers. I just assumed Chris jumped up the 'company' ladder because of his connections, but wasn't allowed to progress after that because (as you say) the older members always take precedence. It almost comes out in the one where he gets pissed about paying for dinner all of the time. Tony says something about it being tradition and how he had to do the same, but there is never any sign that anyone is coming up to be the new guy below Chris.
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Jul 6, 2014 15:42
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withak posted:It almost comes out in the one where he gets pissed about paying for dinner all of the time. Tony says something about it being tradition and how he had to do the same, but there is never any sign that anyone is coming up to be the new guy below Chris. The people who would be the new guys turn out to be bad at being a part of organized crime. There's definitely a motif in the show that the mob is falling apart due to a lack of leadership and organization, and that causes the youngest generation to suffer. I don't think they have the traditions that were in place even during Junior's heyday and nobody seems to know how to mentor them and teach them that the rules of the mob. They're forced to take their cues on what it means to be a gangster from the movies, from their own sense of frustration and entitlement, or from wild stories about a dramatic caper that Tony and his crew did. I'm generally thinking of Brendan, Sean/Matt, Jackie Jr, and to some extent AJ (in the episode where he tries to kill Junior). Chris suffers as a result of the disorganization and chaos, as well, but he believes that the traditions mean something and the group can still command loyalty. (I'm particularly thinking of his conversation with Brendan when Brendan wants to jack another one of Junior's trucks - "Why be in a crew? Why be a gangster?" and the fact that he sacrifices Adriana.)
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Jul 6, 2014 16:21
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Tao Jones posted:he sacrifices Adriana.) Using the word 'sacrifice' in that context is all kinds of grim. I'm sad now.
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Jul 6, 2014 16:42
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Steve2911 posted:I thought there were younger members, but they were the absolute lowest of the low street-level enforcers, robbers and dealers. I just assumed Chris jumped up the 'company' ladder because of his connections, but wasn't allowed to progress after that because (as you say) the older members always take precedence. Naw, this is pretty much the reason why the mob doesn't exist anymore. The young guys balked at having to kick up when they realized they could make just as much money with street gangs when it came to organized crime. There's still bits and pieces of the mob here and there, but they were a bunch of guys Tony's age that really made it, and then the next generation if they got into crime, did it via street gangs.
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Jul 6, 2014 17:34
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AA is for Quitters posted:Naw, this is pretty much the reason why the mob doesn't exist anymore. The young guys balked at having to kick up when they realized they could make just as much money with street gangs when it came to organized crime. There's still bits and pieces of the mob here and there, but they were a bunch of guys Tony's age that really made it, and then the next generation if they got into crime, did it via street gangs. That and suddenly tons of former mobsters starting flipping when the FBI gained the resources to seriously crack down on them. For every guy like Phil Leotardo who smiled and did 20 years there were a dozen guys who'd give up everything they knew to avoid spending time in prison.
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Jul 6, 2014 19:11
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withak posted:It almost comes out in the one where he gets pissed about paying for dinner all of the time. Tony says something about it being tradition and how he had to do the same, but there is never any sign that anyone is coming up to be the new guy below Chris. Benny
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Jul 7, 2014 01:58
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Steve2911 posted:Using the word 'sacrifice' in that context is all kinds of grim. I'm sad now. Especially considering he seems willing to go along with her plea with him to go into witness protection with her until he spots that poor family and realizes this will be his future - he'll be a nobody living the rest of his life like a schnook.
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Jul 7, 2014 04:01
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zVxTeflon posted:Benny And Walden, the guy that took out Phil.
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Jul 7, 2014 12:09
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Jerusalem posted:Especially considering he seems willing to go along with her plea with him to go into witness protection with her until he spots that poor family and realizes this will be his future - he'll be a nobody living the rest of his life like a schnook. I'm actually kinda sad they couldn't get Ray Liotta to make a small appearance as the person that makes him realize that.
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Jul 7, 2014 19:50
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AA is for Quitters posted:I'm actually kinda sad they couldn't get Ray Liotta to make a small appearance as the person that makes him realize that. Or even better the real Henry Hill, who in subsequent years proved to the whole world and everyone in his life what an incompetent poo poo-heel he was. The guy very quickly became a sad caricature of himself, then stayed that way for like 35 years.
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Jul 7, 2014 21:26
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They did do a good job of portraying the most New Jersey of dirtbags.
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Jul 7, 2014 21:52
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Basebf555 posted:Or even better the real Henry Hill, who in subsequent years proved to the whole world and everyone in his life what an incompetent poo poo-heel he was. The guy very quickly became a sad caricature of himself, then stayed that way for like 35 years. Care to elaborate?
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Jul 7, 2014 22:03
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Tiger.Bomb posted:Care to elaborate? Hill committed so many crimes while in Witness Protection they kicked him out of the program.
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Jul 7, 2014 22:08
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His kids wrote a book about what their life was like during the whole ordeal. I highly recommend this to any GoodFella's fan. http://www.amazon.com/On-Run-A-Mafia-Childhood/dp/044652770X What is very interesting in the book is that his son absolutely hates his father while the daughter idolizes Henry so they both have a different take on events. Also you can find tons of links on YouTube with Henry's appearances on Howard Stern.
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Jul 7, 2014 22:26
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Tiger.Bomb posted:Care to elaborate? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jftganOO1jI
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Jul 7, 2014 23:30
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Watched "In The Loop" last night, which features Gandolfini alongside Peter Capaldi, and godDAMN Gandolfini was just always so fuckin good. It really made me sad that we won't see any more awesome performances from him in the future.
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Jul 8, 2014 02:24
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For the episode where Valentina catches fire, the synopsis says something about Tony and Valentina's relationship heating up.
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Jul 8, 2014 03:36
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Ishamael posted:Watched "In The Loop" last night, which features Gandolfini alongside Peter Capaldi, and godDAMN Gandolfini was just always so fuckin good. It really made me sad that we won't see any more awesome performances from him in the future. He was absolutely amazing in Where The Wild Things are. It's a shame he never really got more movie roles.
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Jul 8, 2014 13:25
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Your Gay Uncle posted:He was absolutely amazing in Where The Wild Things are. It's a shame he never really got more movie roles. It wasn't that he wasn't offered, he was just very particular about what he chose to do. You have to remember that there was also a period of several years after the Sopranos that Gandolfini spent doing the war veteran documentaries for HBO that required him to be in the Middle East for long stretches of time.
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Jul 8, 2014 14:09
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Pope Corky the IX posted:It wasn't that he wasn't offered, he was just very particular about what he chose to do. You have to remember that there was also a period of several years after the Sopranos that Gandolfini spent doing the war veteran documentaries for HBO that required him to be in the Middle East for long stretches of time. I faintly recall a lot of interviews where he said he was getting offered tons of wiseguy/criminal parts and he wanted to move past being Tony Soprano. I can only imagine what it was like for him trying to do something new and literally everywhere he went is was "Hey, Tone!".
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Jul 8, 2014 16:07
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Pope Corky the IX posted:It wasn't that he wasn't offered, he was just very particular about what he chose to do. You have to remember that there was also a period of several years after the Sopranos that Gandolfini spent doing the war veteran documentaries for HBO that required him to be in the Middle East for long stretches of time. On the plus side, it means every single thing in his filmography is fantastic because he refused to do crappy roles. The worst thing he was in was probably Down the Shore, which isnt' a terrible movie, but it's like a cinematic version of a Springsteen song. I can't believe it's been over a year since he died, and that we're never going to get anything from him again. Or really, most of the Sopranos cast. I mean, Mike Imperioli's most recent role was "Won Celebrity Chopped", Tony Sirico ain't done much, it's a shame, cause they're all fantastic actors, but Sopranos did a lot to typecast them, and Edie Falco's the only one that's broken away from that. (you could argue Lorraine Bracco too, but right now she's playing a fairly similar role to Goodfellas)
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Jul 8, 2014 16:08
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