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Recently I've been attempting to teach myself the basics of film making by making as many short films as I can. Most of them have been very small but I've tried to step outside my comfort zone as much as I can and the last couple have involved getting actual actors instead of my friends and putting together a small crew. I'm in the early planning stages for the next project which is a lot more ambitious and I'm trying to put together a budget so I can figure out how much money I need to scrape together. I am however having some trouble deciding what the hell to film it on and some advice from people who live and breathe cinematography would be greatly appreciated. The project in question is a viking film about a duel between a pagan and a newly converted christian who were once best friends. Basically a western/samurai film with vikings instead of cowboys/samurais. If it turns out well enough I plan on sending it to a few of the smaller film festivals so the quality needs to be at least high enough that it won't look like total poo poo on a somewhat decent screen. I usually use my Canon T3I/600D for most my projects and although I'm very comfortable with it and have managed to learn how to get the best I can out of it I'm not quite sure if it's up to scratch this time. Firstly because the image quality isn't that great and I'm worried that if I try to move the camera a bit too much I'll end up with a whole bunch of shots being unusable due to everything wiggling around like jello. I also want to use a wide lens for a lot of it to try to get that somewhat distorted dramatic look but I've been told that wide lenses generally don't work that well with DSLRs. I consulted a acquaintance of mine who is a massive gearhead and he told me that it's practically impossible to get anything decent looking on a DSLR and that I should rent a ARRI Alexa XT mainly because it will allow me a lot of flexibility on colour correction and make it easier to get close to the look of the 60's stock in Spaghetti westerns as well as being an actual proper movie camera rather than a still camera that can shoot decent video. But it seems to be crazy expensive to rent one and it would mean having to get a lot of additional stuff for it to work properly. It seems to me that the C100, or something similar, might be a much better option since I could use DSLR lenses which are a lot cheaper to rent and I could even borrow a couple since everyone and their dog owns a canon DSLR. Basically I want to try and find a way to get a decent image that it's too hard to color correct while also not having to spend 95% of my budget on rental fees. Should I follow the gearheads advice and rent a really fancy professional camera, should I be a cheapskate and try and make it work with my own reliable but rather cheap camera or should I try to find a happy medium by renting a C100? It's probably going to be the most expensive thing I've done regardless of what option I go with since it being a period piece means everything needs to be a prop but I'm going to use my contacts with the local viking combat reenactment group to get easier access to costumes and props as well as actors that know how to convincingly swing blunt swords at each other without seriously hurting themselves. FreudianSlippers fucked around with this message at 04:17 on Jun 22, 2014 |
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Jun 22, 2014 04:10
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A general rule is that if you can justify renting, then rent. If you have the budget for your camera department without it negatively affecting another aspect of the production, then rent whatever you can handle the workflow for. That being said, there is no reason at all you can't shoot something perfectly acceptable for festivals on a DSLR. It's about making what you have work. Numerous DSLR productions win festivals, so "impossible to get anything decent looking" is not really true. If I were spending what it sounds like you might spend on production, then I would make sure my grip department had budget before renting a camera. Do you have a jib, dolly, crane, Steadi? Dynamic camerawork on a DSLR will make your production a hell of a lot more impressive than lackluster use of a nicer camera.
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Jun 22, 2014 05:31
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I work for one of the largest film festivals in the country and a good chunk of the films we show are shot on dslr. Honestly we don't care about the medium as long as we can screen it and show it.
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Jun 22, 2014 09:27
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FreudianSlippers posted:Basically I want to try and find a way to get a decent image that it's too hard to color correct while also not having to spend 95% of my budget on rental fees. Should I follow the gearheads advice and rent a really fancy professional camera, should I be a cheapskate and try and make it work with my own reliable but rather cheap camera or should I try to find a happy medium by renting a C100? This may help if you have access to After Effects and end up using a dslr. http://vimeo.com/m/56587479 . Alternatively, there's a lot out there on using LUTs as a base in Davinci Resolve (which is free to grade in for 1080p). I'd suggest hitting up nofilmschool's and fstoppers sites-all free but there is amazing tips on shooting. Nofilmschool had a really good post on shooting action fight scenes (eg lenses to use) and said that a lot of fights are shot at 22 fps with some frames cut out. I remember the lens choice had to do with compressing space in the scene. On this note, film riot's YouTube channel has been using the 5dmk2 for ages and just did two video on their switch to the C100. They got impressive stuff out of both cameras. I'm not in front of my machine but you should be able to find these pretty easily.
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Jun 22, 2014 10:58
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FreudianSlippers posted:Basically I want to try and find a way to get a decent image that it's too hard to color correct while also not having to spend 95% of my budget on rental fees. Should I follow the gearheads advice and rent a really fancy professional camera, should I be a cheapskate and try and make it work with my own reliable but rather cheap camera or should I try to find a happy medium by renting a C100? Do neither and hire a DP who is passionate about your vision and willing to do an indie thing for cheap in return for the chance to step up his or her game. If you're anywhere near a major city there are a shitload of gaffers, 1st ACs, LTs and small time theater LDs who you should be networking with. Some of those people are talented beyond their station and looking for a chance to prove it. They also know a lot of people in the same boat looking for a break. If you treat these people well, if your creative mojo is any good and you DO NOT SKIMP ON CRAFT SERVICE, you can begin to assemble an amazing crew of plucky pro-ams like yourself. Whoever told you you need an Alexa for your micro-budget period short is a complete idiot, do not listen to that person. Find someone with a decent reel who either owns or has access to a camera package so you can focus on direction and art department. If you're near a university, this could be very easy depending on the time of year.
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Jun 22, 2014 18:18
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Thanks for the advice. I'll probably end up sticking with my own camera, or as Dr.Fishopolis suggested find a good DP who has his own, and spend my money on renting a jib or steadicam or something similar. The DP suggestion sounds really appealing because working on your own means you have to think of basically everything and it would be nice to be able to work with someone. On the last short I had a tiny crew but no one could make it on the one evening we could use a certain location so I had to be my own crew and it's really hard to try to focus on setting up the shot, directing the actors and recording the sound at the same time without screwing something up. I think Terry Gilliam once said that the secret to being a good director was finding people who are really good at their jobs and have them do all the hard work for you and then taking credit. An actor I've worked with who does a lot amateur and student films is basically starting to hate pizza because on almost every set he'd been on for months the only food had been pizza. FreudianSlippers fucked around with this message at 04:12 on Jun 23, 2014 |
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Jun 23, 2014 04:09
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FreudianSlippers posted:An actor I've worked with who does a lot amateur and student films is basically starting to hate pizza because on almost every set he'd been on for months the only food had been pizza. That is absolutely horrible. Pizza should never be served on sets. In fact, it's considered a meal penealty on union shows.
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Jun 26, 2014 02:20
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On jobs that I've produced I've always gotten good local catering. I hear so many stories from my actor and model friends who had to endure cheap poo poo on shoots that I have to do my part. Even on stuff like portfolio shoots I'll prep the meals ahead of time myself.
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Jun 26, 2014 08:55
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On single-day jobs I try to cook the night before.
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Jun 26, 2014 22:19
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One of my favorite ACs always brought the most amazing home-made pasta to set in a huge thermos! Just for camera dept. The looks of envy we'd sometimes get on low budget pizza crapshoots were hilarious! I miss working with her 
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Jun 28, 2014 12:53
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I'm putting together a music video shoot involving a busby berkeley - eqsue synchronized swimming scene. The budget can only be portrayed by a picture. This is the picture.  I am currently reevaluating my life priorities.
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Jun 28, 2014 22:50
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Dr. Fishopolis posted:I'm putting together a music video shoot involving a busby berkeley - eqsue synchronized swimming scene.  .
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Jun 28, 2014 23:31
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I'm actually excited about it. I'm attached to direct, there's a DP with an F5 package and a great choreographer, it's just gonna be one of those pizza shoots and there's no producer to speak of. I mostly just wanted to post that picture because holy poo poo that picture. new favorite website: http://shittyrigs.com
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Jun 28, 2014 23:43
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Dr. Fishopolis posted:I mostly just wanted to post that picture because holy poo poo that picture. new favorite website: http://shittyrigs.com Quite a few of my friends have pictures on ShittyRigs. 
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Jun 29, 2014 00:15
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This one is pure genius: http://shittyrigs.com/post/89093507052/submitted-by-pechente#notes
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Jun 29, 2014 02:14
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Dr. Fishopolis posted:I'm putting together a music video shoot involving a busby berkeley - eqsue synchronized swimming scene. How does that gimbal even work? It looks like it's made from jugs or something. God that picture is incredible.
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Jun 29, 2014 05:05
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FreudianSlippers posted:This one is pure genius:
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Jun 30, 2014 11:50
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I worked on a friend's thesis film last year where almost the entire budget got blown on a couple of actors, and the director & producer wouldn't shut up about how professional their set was going to be compared to anything any of us had ever seen because they actually had something resembling a budget. Within the first week, the lead actor commented how it was the least professional set he'd ever worked on in his life. He meant it as a compliment because we were inventing a bunch of crazy poo poo that would fit in perfectly on ShittyRigs and he liked being around it, but it totally took the wind out of their sails. It was a nice bit of shadenfreude because they were being egotistical shitheads, but (at least in reality) the producers I've worked with loooove it when you can make something from nothing. It's a great skill to have. Edit: and I just found out my friend that gaffed that shoot died in a motorcycle accident last night. Wear your helmets, kids.
CaptainViolence fucked around with this message at 22:33 on Jun 30, 2014 |
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Jun 30, 2014 14:01
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Steadiman posted:I love this kind of ingenuity, the kind of clever ideas only low budget can create. One of the very few advantages of shooting low budget stuff, it really unleashes the creative part of you to make things work and look good within severe limits. Great stuff We shot a music video this weekend and they needed some "head in jars" gags and ended up doing this trick of doing a wrap-around photo of some folks heads in the office and then printing/laminating/lining these giant jars with them. The distortion of the water and some wig hair in it makes it almost impossible to tell there's a just a 2D photo in there. Very cool. Also our DP (for a different gig) built an awesome rear end stabilizer out of speed rail and strong bungies for our old workhorse Red One. Works well enough that we leave it perma-built now!
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Jul 3, 2014 04:55
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God I'd hate to run with a RED One all day regardless of the rig. Do you have a photo of your rig and someone using it?
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Jul 3, 2014 05:14
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1st AD posted:God I'd hate to run with a RED One all day regardless of the rig. Do you have a photo of your rig and someone using it? Only one I have at the moment is from when we were testing it out. Once we determined that it removed enough of the shake to be worth it, he fleshed it out a bit more with better bungies and mounting. And yes Jesus H Christ the Red One all loaded up is so goddamned heavy it's ridiculous. 
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Jul 3, 2014 05:24
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Focus puller chat: I'm looking to invest in a 5/6in focus/on camera monitor, and was considering the DP6 but I'm a little torn between that and the TVLogic 056WP which is a much more professionally versatile option. Sadly I can only do about $1500 for budget which makes the 056wp a bit out of range since a proper pack with arm, cables and sunhood is at least $1.8k Are there any options I'm not considering? Anything in the inbetween I should know about?
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Jul 4, 2014 10:46
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Not sure how much shopping around you did already, but adorama has the tv logic for $1200. Convergent designs oddyssey 7 (not q) is a nice monitor for the money too. Might be too big if your looking at 5/6 inch monitors though.
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Jul 4, 2014 12:58
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I'm in Australia so shipping + GST kind of kills that, but I can find the monitor itself locally for $1265, but the place gouges on accessories, hundreds of dollars more expensive than Adorama on the battery plates etc. I should probably just man up and email them asking for a kit price. Doesn't help that the local dealers website is quite poor.
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Jul 4, 2014 13:50
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Here's a rather clever lovely rig. There is like 5+ minutes of example footage before you actually get to see it though. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ehty04EnB1M It's basically just a camera stuck on iron plate screwed to a telescopic pole with a string attached to the bottom to be able to pan up or down. It's of course not nearly as steady as a proper jib but it could be used to get some rather neat shots. I kinda like that it looks a bit handheld. The same dude also has another video where he basically fastened the pole to a tripod for added stability and he manages to restrict the test footage to about two minutes. I'm shooting a music video for some friends of mine soon and I'm thinking about trying to making something similar since there is literally no budget but I want to try and make it look like there is. I'm also going to turn an old backpack into a cheap snorricam by fastening a tripod to it.
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Jul 5, 2014 00:27
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Uh, that just looks like wobbly poo poo, sorry. If you need a shoulder rig and only have a tripod, you can just fold it up and put it on your shoulder. It'll be more stable than regular handheld, at least. I've also pivoted the tripod on two feet for a dolly effect for a few projects. That said, none of these are a replacement for a slider, dolly, jib or actual steadicam. Look up some DIY steadicams, even a cheap gimbal can help quite a bit. I posted my last attempt at a danadolly here. It looked ok, but was a little crooked, too narrow for any sizeable rig, and my lovely welds broke during a shoot. I finished version 2 a couple months ago.  Altogether it was pretty cheap, the junior/baby adapters were the most expensive part at $15 each. I'll also want to put a ball leveler head on there so I can slap on a fluid head and not worry about making a bowl adapter in plywood and all that.
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Jul 5, 2014 07:23
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Slim Pickens posted:Uh, that just looks like wobbly poo poo, sorry. If you need a shoulder rig and only have a tripod, you can just fold it up and put it on your shoulder. It'll be more stable than regular handheld, at least. I've also pivoted the tripod on two feet for a dolly effect for a few projects. That said, none of these are a replacement for a slider, dolly, jib or actual steadicam. Look up some DIY steadicams, even a cheap gimbal can help quite a bit. I've looked at building one of these myself since a bought one is out of my price range. Did you use instructions online or just built from experience?
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Jul 5, 2014 07:47
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Just do yourself a favor and build out of Drylin.
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Jul 5, 2014 16:41
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the_lion posted:I've looked at building one of these myself since a bought one is out of my price range. I just ripped off the dana dolly junior, pretty much. http://danadolly.com/Dana_Dolly_Junior.html I still need decent stands for it. A couple Coleman c-stands would be ok, but short junior stands would be preferable to avoid wobbliness. For small rigs, yeah, the Drylin would probably be a good idea.
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Jul 7, 2014 06:54
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Slim Pickens posted:I just ripped off the dana dolly junior, pretty much. Also Matthews just released some "slider oriented stands" which might be nice. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1047272-REG/matthews_249561_the_slider_stand.html
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Jul 7, 2014 15:52
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Anyone here used haze in a can? I need haze to seldom to justify a machine, and rentals are difficult at my job due to the requisition process (government), but every once in a while you gotta smoke a set.
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Jul 8, 2014 18:47
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I use a lovely fog machine and mix my own juice depending on what's called for. Haze In A Can works quick but you need to be quick as well, because it's gone almost immediately.
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Jul 8, 2014 22:06
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Chitin posted:Anyone here used haze in a can? I need haze to seldom to justify a machine, and rentals are difficult at my job due to the requisition process (government), but every once in a while you gotta smoke a set. Do you guys at least get gear in a reasonable amount of time? I work on a government contract as well, and they've been using the same XH-A1s for the past couple years. I made up a camera wish list 9 months ago (fs700 and d5300 + lenses etc.). All they've gotten so far is a lens, SD cards, and a rain slicker. All things we CAN'T loving USE. They're apparently going to wait until the end of the fiscal year to finally buy gear that isn't obsolete.
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Jul 9, 2014 06:23
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Often months long even when there's money set aside for something. It's one of my biggest frustrations with the job. It's gotten a bit better since I made acquaintances with accounts payable and they taught me all the little bureaucratic ways to speed things up, but it's still unbearable knowing that anything I need is likely to show up the week after the shoot. Also how many signatures I'll need along the way. I do miss my old "all the boss for the credit card" job in that way.
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Jul 10, 2014 01:29
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Have any of you guys used the A7s or the GH4? I think i'm going to eventually buy either one, but really can't decide which. They both look amazing, leaning slightly towards the A7s though with the Shogun for 4k should I ever need it.
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Jul 10, 2014 01:33
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The A7 has extreme rolling shutter issues. Most CMOS sensors have this problem but the A7 is cartoonish in it's exaggeration. Just something to watch out for.
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Jul 10, 2014 17:16
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homo punching bag posted:The A7 has extreme rolling shutter issues. Most CMOS sensors have this problem but the A7 is cartoonish in it's exaggeration. Just something to watch out for. It's much improved in APS-C mode, which is nice for those of us rocking the Sigma 18-35. https://vimeo.com/100083359
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Jul 10, 2014 23:03
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I'm going to be leaving for Japan in September to work as an English teacher. I also recently got a surprise check for $1000 as a graduation gift. I really would like to spend it on a camera + equipment so I can capture the Japanese countryside in glorious high definition and make some video blogs for my friends back in the states. That said, I've never owned a video camera before, and I don't know which ones will be good or most price effective. So what do you all recommend? I was also thinking I might need a tripod and some sound equipment, so recommendations for that would be appreciated as well.
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Jul 13, 2014 17:06
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It's gonna be tough to stretch $1000 for a camera, tripod and audio equipment. For $600-800 you could pick up a used GH2, T3i or A6000 with a cheap zoom that might cover your bases. A nice used manfrotto 502 fluid head will run at least $200 on craigslist, or get a cheapo generic fluid head on ebay for $130. A $50 lavalier mic will probably be fine for any talking you need to do, as long as the camera takes audio inputs. You'll have to live with the onboard sound for most everything else. If you've never used a video DSLR before you'll have a decent learning curve to get a decent picture, though. Maybe someone here has good suggestion for camcorders, but I'd go with one of those three(probably the a6000, the image looks pretty good for such a cheap camera)
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Jul 13, 2014 21:51
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If the A6000 had a mic input I'd agree, buuut, it doesn't. I love my A6000 and it'd be ideal except for that. I'd consider a D5300/D5200. There are some annoying quirks with the video mode, but both have great image quality and accept external mics.
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Jul 13, 2014 22:13
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