|
Leperflesh posted:We don't need it? Some folks have 3-phase setups in their garages, and it's not difficult to get it installed if you want it, but what normal household needs are there that demand three-phase setups? In Germany it's mostly used for kitchen ranges. Note that European three phase is 240V from any phase to neutral, 400V between phases. The US "high leg delta" system is quite different (240V between phases, 120V phase-to-neutral for two of them, and 208V between the "high leg" and neutral). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-phase_electric_power#Three-wire_and_four-wire_circuits
|
#
?
Jul 6, 2014 10:57
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 14, 2024 08:05 |
|
|
Zopotantor posted:The US "high leg delta" system is quite different (240V between phases, 120V phase-to-neutral for two of them, and 208V between the "high leg" and neutral). That's not a normal thing in my area. I'm sure some power companies use it somewhere, but every 3-phase I've deal with in NYC, eastern PA, eastern NC and northern CA were all wye.
|
|
#
?
Jul 6, 2014 15:53
|
|
|
I wrote the documentation for some industrial equipment. We specifically mentioned High-Leg Delta as not compatible. It would require 3 Phase 400 VAC in 50 Hz regions, and either 3 Phase 208/230 VAC or 277/480 VAC for 60 Hz regions.
|
|
#
?
Jul 6, 2014 17:10
|
|
|
Wild-leg delta is used in areas where you need 240 hot-hot 3phase, but also need to run 120 and 208 equipment and resi splitphase, preferably off the same transformer. At least, that is where I would use it. I would absolutely love to have it in my house for exactly this reason, and hopefully will get it set up if I ever build a workshop. There is a 3 phase power line right along where I would build it anyways. There is also grounded-corner delta, but that is just weird. Tim Thomas posted:Until NEMA finally adopts a plug standard that isn't dangerous as gently caress by design, I'm pretty OK without having 240V be the in-home voltage of choice. I like designing at work around 3 phase 208 wye or delta just as much as the next capital equipment automation rear end in a top hat, but I refuse to use NEMA on principle. Twistloks are NEMA standards and aren't bad, except the whole "holy gently caress, 25 dollars for a single outlet?!" Part.
|
|
#
?
Jul 6, 2014 17:16
|
|
|
kastein posted:
Twistloks still engage before the twist is made, and they have the additional trip hazard/socket damage issue endemic to locking connectors. Theoretically, one could make a standard NEMA 5R safe by recessing the outlet the depth of the 5P blade and banning all plug-side bricks, but everyone would bitch and moan and there would probably become a market for horrible 5R extenders to bring the outlet flush with the wall again.
|
|
#
?
Jul 6, 2014 20:41
|
|
|
Tim Thomas posted:Twistloks still engage before the twist is made, and they have the additional trip hazard/socket damage issue endemic to locking connectors. Yes, pretty much. The only time I've ever seen a ground cheater installed correctly (tab/pigtail attached to something actually earthed) is when I've installed it. And countless more equipment with the earth pin snipped off yet still in service. A safer standard seems lovely in theory but in practice would almost certainly fall on its face if 100% bacwards compatability could not be provided.
|
|
#
?
Jul 6, 2014 22:57
|
|
|
Tim Thomas posted:Twistloks still engage before the twist is made, and they have the additional trip hazard/socket damage issue endemic to locking connectors. Not to mention making outlets harder/impossible to fit flush into a lot of current wall boxes.
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2014 03:52
|
|
|
fork bomb posted:You should make a thread about being in digital forensics and your experiences. I've posted a couple of threads about it over the years, usually with amateur-hour MS-paint doodles, and I assume one is in the archives somewhere. Maybe I'll do an update with a few more amusing tales at some point. Unfortunately the day-to-day is not very interesting, so it hinges on crazy goings-on at suspect's homes and the like. I'd love to write about the technical side of things (tools, techniques etc) but that's pretty dull to most people.
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2014 04:39
|
|
|
Gromit posted:I've posted a couple of threads about it over the years, usually with amateur-hour MS-paint doodles, and I assume one is in the archives somewhere. Maybe I'll do an update with a few more amusing tales at some point. You're on a website where people sent a thread about traffic engineering in Ask/Tell to like 500+ pages, I think boring crime scene processing procedure would be right up our alley 
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2014 05:02
|
|
|
Parallel Paraplegic posted:You're on a website where people sent a thread about traffic engineering in Ask/Tell to like 500+ pages, I think boring crime scene processing procedure would be right up our alley That traffic engineering thread was the best thing ever. I would second the notion that no matter how boring you think it may be, unless all the good stuff is things you can't share, like a lot of health care anecdotes.
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2014 06:44
|
|
|
kastein posted:Wild-leg delta is used in areas where you need 240 hot-hot 3phase, but also need to run 120 and 208 equipment and resi splitphase, preferably off the same transformer. At least, that is where I would use it. I would absolutely love to have it in my house for exactly this reason, and hopefully will get it set up if I ever build a workshop. There is a 3 phase power line right along where I would build it anyways. Every 3 phase I've ever seen in person has been 120/208/277/480, with some eliminating 480 for 240. Where I work now, we have 120/208/277. No 480 I can find; the HVAC and refrigeration units are 277, with most lighting and moderate loads (i.e. no refrigeration or heating) on 208. Our dishwasher pulls 55kW @ 208 going by the data plate.  (mostly for the rinse heater)
randomidiot fucked around with this message at 12:25 on Jul 7, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2014 12:22
|
|
|
We broke the pull chain in our rental apartment (purpose build top/bot house duplex ~1910) and I went to fix it yesterday as landlord pays for all fixes Pulled off old fixture and no box, just worn wires with aging insulation coming down from two holes in the lathe/plaster/whatever they used for ceilings in 1910. Called my landlord and told him to put in a box as I don't want to deal with the inevitable mess doing it myself. We'll see if he just puts the new fixture on or actually puts a box in. I don't think he has to put in a box as I'm sure its grandfathered but who knows doesn't hurt to ask.
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2014 14:26
|
|
|
Generally when you do a repair (which in this case may be a stretch, but renter's rights laws tend to side heavily with the tenant), you have to bring it up to code. So if it was cool not having a box before, but now it needs one, he ought to do it.
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2014 14:29
|
|
|
Was the old fixture just screwed into the wall?
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2014 16:08
|
|
|
FCKGW posted:Was the old fixture just screwed into the wall? The ceiling, but yes. I bought a new fixture and told him to use it.
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2014 16:12
|
|
|
c0ldfuse posted:We broke the pull chain in our rental apartment (purpose build top/bot house duplex ~1910) and I went to fix it yesterday as landlord pays for all fixes Sounds like run of the mill knob and tube, which was pretty normal in 1910. An old-work box would be fine for this, as long as the wire is in good shape. If it's crumbling... time to pull romex in. Have fun.
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2014 16:17
|
|
|
His Divine Shadow posted:I've no complaints about this style: I do, it's not polarized.
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2014 16:56
|
|
|
IIRC that's 240 euro power of some variety and both are hot, there's just no ground on that one? I'd like to see a ground, but polarizing it isn't going to matter.
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2014 17:22
|
|
|
Pretty sure the ground is on the clips at the top/bottom. e: And hence the flat plug that doesn't reach those clips being, as stated, ungrounded.
Bad Munki fucked around with this message at 17:31 on Jul 7, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2014 17:26
|
|
|
Motronic posted:That's not a normal thing in my area. I'm sure some power companies use it somewhere, but every 3-phase I've deal with in NYC, eastern PA, eastern NC and northern CA were all wye. Where I usually see it is in very old services to non-residential buildings in mostly-residential neighborhoods. Like for example, I was doing some work on the main admin campus for West Contra Costa Unified School District recently, which was in a solidly residential neighborhood. They have a high-leg delta overhead service that was installed at least a few decades ago that just serves some small office modular buildings.
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2014 17:43
|
|
|
Papercut posted:Where I usually see it is in very old services to non-residential buildings in mostly-residential neighborhoods. Like for example, I was doing some work on the main admin campus for West Contra Costa Unified School District recently, which was in a solidly residential neighborhood. They have a high-leg delta overhead service that was installed at least a few decades ago that just serves some small office modular buildings. That probably makes for a good way to share a transformer for people who need 120/240 and those that need 3 phase. I've not really worked in areas like that with 3 phase. It's almost always a purpose built install/power supply (data centers).
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2014 17:45
|
|
|
Bad Munki posted:Pretty sure the ground is on the clips at the top/bottom. Yep, that's exactly it.
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2014 18:49
|
|
|
Make all power plugs giant MagSafe adapters.
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2014 19:11
|
|
|
kastein posted:IIRC that's 240 euro power of some variety and both are hot, there's just no ground on that one? That's a "Type F" CEE 7/4 socket. It is 240 euro power of some variety, but that means one is hot and one is neutral.
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2014 20:15
|
|
|
Yes one is hot, one is neutral and the tabs on top and bottom are ground. Pretty simple and standard setup.
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2014 20:23
|
|
|
some texas redneck posted:Every 3 phase I've ever seen in person has been 120/208/277/480, with some eliminating 480 for 240. Can you explain the differences between all those different voltages please? I have a pretty solid grasp of split phase residential, but I see 208/240V used interchangeably - which I am pretty sure is wrong. As far as I can tell 240V is across both hot legs of a split-phase 120V system (120V-to-120V 180 degrees out of phase). 208V is two hot legs of a three-phase system (120V each but only 120 degrees out of phase so the voltage is less because of the phase discrepancy). Is that correct? Not sure where 277 and 480 come from.
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2014 21:42
|
|
|
Resistive loads don't care about the phase, just RMS voltage, so for such things 208 and 240 are basically interchangeable. 277V/480V: three phase power, 120 degrees out of phase. 277V is one hot leg to neutral, 480 is two hot legs.
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2014 22:11
|
|
|
We had a little fun one last weekend. Our pool's water level became fond of dropping in the later part of last week. We were second-guessing when we had refilled the pool, but it became obvious something wasn't right. When I went to shut off the filter, I saw one of the pipe joint was spewing water. After shutting off the filter, I jiggled with it and found the pipe completely came free from the elbow joint. There was nothing keeping the pipe adhered to the joint. I got some PVC primer and cement and got them fixed together. Everything has been much more dry in the pool house since then. It was always a little damp in there. It used to house a well on the properly, so it could take a bit of water, and it airs out easily, but it's kind of disturbing to think that has been going on this whole time. We had all the pool plumbing replaced when we got this house a year and a half ago.
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2014 23:43
|
|
|
c0ldfuse posted:The ceiling, but yes. I bought a new fixture and told him to use it. MOST (not all, but a very large majority) of knob and tube ran for lights in that era had a 1x6 piece of wood above the lathe and plaster secured to the joists. lights tended to be heavier back then and since they didn't use boxes they used the wood to secure them. i'd suggest a hole saw sized for a 3/0 or 4/0 box but you have to be very, VERY careful not to catch the knob and tube with it. the conductors were a lot shorter and if the sheathing is already in bad shape good luck trying to reuse it if you hit it. another option would be to get a 1/2" "pancake" box and secure that to the wood above with sturdy screws. depending on your light it's likely not to sit flush with the ceiling but at least your connections would be inside of a box.
|
|
#
?
Jul 8, 2014 03:59
|
|
|
relevant to outletchat: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEfP1OKKz_Q
|
|
#
?
Jul 8, 2014 05:05
|
|
|
Rocko Bonaparte posted:We had a little fun one last weekend. Our pool's water level became fond of dropping in the later part of last week. We were second-guessing when we had refilled the pool, but it became obvious something wasn't right. When I went to shut off the filter, I saw one of the pipe joint was spewing water. After shutting off the filter, I jiggled with it and found the pipe completely came free from the elbow joint. There was nothing keeping the pipe adhered to the joint. I got some PVC primer and cement and got them fixed together. Everything has been much more dry in the pool house since then. It was always a little damp in there. Conversely to that, I've seen where the installers GLUED the inch and a half male fittings into the drat selector valve bit. We didn't do it, so it's bleeding hilarious. But yes, people, if you ever get pool work done, always go behind them and check. I've seen/heard first hand tales of people not glueing poo poo at all. You can get away with that on a waste line, but not on anything else.
|
|
#
?
Jul 8, 2014 05:45
|
|
|
The osha.jpg thread in GBS is a goldmine. WHERE'S YOUR PPE, KID? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwfDCdzNnnU I've never built a wall before, but I'm pretty sure that's the wrong way to do it. Maybe that would work if you were an Inca stonemason working with 12 ton precision cut boulders.
|
|
#
?
Jul 8, 2014 22:42
|
|
|
canyoneer posted:
 I... I've never been so glad that I live on the opposite side of the world from russian population centers.
|
|
#
?
Jul 8, 2014 23:37
|
|
|
Johnny Aztec posted:But yes, people, if you ever get pool work done, always go behind them and check. this is true for all contractors that haven't proven themselves competent to you. if I hire a guy I've never worked with before I telecommute that day and check on him ever 15 or 20 minutes stopped one guy from sawing the wrong size hole for a skylight in my loving roof. stopped another dude from notching every single ceiling joist in my garage. you can't trust motherfuckers.
|
|
#
?
Jul 9, 2014 04:34
|
|
|
gently caress, my wife showed me a picture of a bridge that collapsed back home in Vietnam the other day after a truck drove over it. Upon closer inspection of the rubble, the concrete was reinforced with... bamboo, not steel rebar. lovely construction is par for the course in the 3rd, err, 2nd world according to her. I need to bother her to find that picture.
|
|
#
?
Jul 9, 2014 05:09
|
|
|
kid sinister posted:lovely construction is par for the course in the
|
|
#
?
Jul 9, 2014 06:10
|
|
|
At work we're trying to determine if this old wall mount air conditioner can be plugged into a normal 110 outlet or if it needs 220. It was allegedly plugged into a 220 before but it has a regular 110 plug. It's old enough that the manufacturer doesn't even have manuals for it.  Someone taking the trouble to run 220 to a device that wouldn't need it would probably fit the thread, at least.
|
|
#
?
Jul 9, 2014 06:37
|
|
|
Is "115V" somehow confusing?  Also, 12A. If it needed 240, that'd be like 24A on 120, which would be a monster truck of an AC unit.
|
|
#
?
Jul 9, 2014 06:48
|
|
|
Nobody involved knows much about electrical work. Just seems to me like if it has a normal plug but requires 220 there'd be some kind of label on it indicating such.
|
|
#
?
Jul 9, 2014 07:22
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 14, 2024 08:05 |
|
|
Yup right up at the top it says 115v 60hz. It runs on standard american wall electricity. I personally wouldn't put it on the same 15A circuit I had a lot of other stuff running on, but in theory it should be fine as long as you're not trying to run other power hogs on the same circuit. A 20A circuit would be fine and dandy. It does not say it can run on 220 so I don't believe that it was plugged into 220, especially since you say it has a 110 plug. The outlets should not be compatible (if there's an outlet wired for 220 that you can plug a 110 cord into, that's badwrong and doubleplusungood, fix it now.)
|
|
#
?
Jul 9, 2014 07:24
|
|
