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Man of the Year, A lot of DB is a play on other things. It's easy for most Americans to recognize the Superman homages, but not necessarily the Monkey King homages, or the references to shinto afterlife, etc. Dragon Ball is a really weird world because it combines: Superman and American comics Buddhism Shinto Pro Wrestling Eastern Mythology Christian mythology The Monkey King Sci Fi ...and other things into one series as Toriyama's mood changed. It started as Journey to the West and then became a crazy wacky world with influences from his other series.
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Jul 7, 2014 20:46
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Reminder: The only reason theres even Ki on Earth is because of Kami / the original Namek. Nameks are just naturally gifted at using it. Freiza and family are just super mutants. Saiyans were feared because they were natural ki users AND were warriors with great potential. A group of 5 or so 'low class' Saiyans with <3k power could exterminate a whole planet under the full moon. So it's very likely the greater galaxy had little to no Ki as well. Kild fucked around with this message at 20:56 on Jul 7, 2014 |
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Jul 7, 2014 20:54
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Genocyber posted:Wasn't the whole thing with Androids 17 and 18 that they weren't stronger than the Z fighters; still quite powerful, but more that they couldn't tire and could not be sensed, making them nigh impossible to track. Yea, they were quite a bit stronger, but not impossible to beat. Any of the saiyajins and Piccolo post ROSAT would have beaten the androids. Especially in a 1v1 fight.
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Jul 7, 2014 21:29
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Darko posted:Man of the Year, This could be one of the reasons DBZ is sao popular: for example Star Wars is basically WW2 in space with the ancient mythology of knights and magic added to it while holding on to the monomyth concept. It's a summary cultures, more western than eastern, while DBz is clearly more eastern than western, but it basically works as a same kind of concept. And it is true that it actually works, especially considering that Toriyama made the story on as it progressed. Somebody said on the lat page it is Toriyama's genius and I think he is right about that. Kild posted:Reminder: The only reason theres even Ki on Earth is because of Kami / the original Namek. Huh, interersting idea. It's true that we have no idea how many species there is in the greater DBZ galaxy, but because you see so many different kinds of aliens, I thought that there would be something like 50 to 200 sentient races, so I found it weird that only the namekians + sayans + Frieza race would be so good with ki. I mean Zarbon and dodoria are their own species, also every person on Ginyu Force is a specific species as well. So if you combine Ginyu Forze, Frieza, Zarbon, Dodoria, humans, namekians and sayans, you've got 11 species already that can use ki efficiently. After that you've got everybody else. That's a lot, so for the greater galaxy having little ki is still a bit odd.
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Jul 7, 2014 21:36
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What is up with DBZ fans and caring about the lamest peripheral parts of this super sweet comic thats full of cool drawings of monsters, boobs, and sweet old masters doing magic poo poo.
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Jul 7, 2014 21:38
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Is it just the western fanbase that gets wrapped up in literal interpretations of power levels and trying to apply the idea of a "canon" to DB? I don't seem to see it much on the non-english web.
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Jul 7, 2014 21:46
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A Gnarlacious Bro posted:What is up with DBZ fans and caring about the lamest peripheral parts of this super sweet comic thats full of cool drawings of monsters, boobs, and sweet old masters doing magic poo poo. Autism, I'd assume.
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Jul 7, 2014 21:48
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Sometimes saying "it's fine just go with it" isn't enough to keep suspension of disbelief going. Sometimes people need to find a rationalization for why something fictional works the way it works.
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Jul 7, 2014 21:48
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A Gnarlacious Bro posted:Is it just the western fanbase that gets wrapped up in literal interpretations of power levels and trying to apply the idea of a "canon" to DB? I don't seem to see it much on the non-english web. Other countries had a good 10 or so years more than us to get it out of their systems.
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Jul 7, 2014 21:50
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I think it's fun to think things like this. Toriyama has made a gazillion dollars with this, I think it's worth to figure out what the world he has created really is and what it consists of. If it would be just boobs and fights and monsters, anybody should be able to reach that level of fame and popularity.
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Jul 7, 2014 21:52
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ManOfTheYear posted:Huh, interersting idea. It's true that we have no idea how many species there is in the greater DBZ galaxy, but because you see so many different kinds of aliens, I thought that there would be something like 50 to 200 sentient races, so I found it weird that only the namekians + sayans + Frieza race would be so good with ki. I mean Zarbon and dodoria are their own species, also every person on Ginyu Force is a specific species as well. So if you combine Ginyu Forze, Frieza, Zarbon, Dodoria, humans, namekians and sayans, you've got 11 species already that can use ki efficiently. After that you've got everybody else. That's a lot, so for the greater galaxy having little ki is still a bit odd. In the special that introduced Vegeta's brother, two random aliens who used to be Frieza's mooks have reached his level.
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Jul 7, 2014 21:55
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WickedHate posted:In the special that introduced Vegeta's brother, two random aliens who used to be Frieza's mooks have reached his level. It also had the best line of any dragonball related media. Paraphrasing here. "Freeza, huh? In retrospect, not that much of a threat"
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Jul 7, 2014 22:04
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A Gnarlacious Bro posted:Is it just the western fanbase that gets wrapped up in literal interpretations of power levels and trying to apply the idea of a "canon" to DB? I don't seem to see it much on the non-english web. DB is much bigger in spanish-speaking communities, at least from what I've seen. And discussing those things is fun, man, as long as you don't take it too seriously, and few people actually do.
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Jul 7, 2014 22:47
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A Gnarlacious Bro posted:Is it just the western fanbase that gets wrapped up in literal interpretations of power levels and trying to apply the idea of a "canon" to DB? I don't seem to see it much on the non-english web. How much time do you spend reading about Dragonball on the "non-english web"
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Jul 7, 2014 22:54
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ImpAtom posted:Nah, Goku's a straight-up terrible person. He has zero empathy for anyone who isn't directly related to him, or at least not when it gets in the way of his own fun or excitement. He genuinely cares more about a good fight than he does about the people who get their poo poo wrecked unless they are close friends of his. This is why I only enjoy Kid Goku and detest his adult self. Kid Goku was endearing in how naive and simple he was and he made no pretense that he understood anything about love or protecting the world. He straight up went to murder Tambourine after what he did to Krillin. Later on he's portrayed as this great hero even as he just randomly decides to marry Chi-Chi, obviously having no concpet of romantic love, and then he lets Vegeta go because he wants to fight him again. Kid Goku was fun and lovable - Adult Goku is a monster. Also Power Levels are VERY important to the Japanese too. I believe it's after Part 2 came out that V-Jump or whatever it was even went back and gave PLs for all the Part 1 characters. Then there's the numerous Daizenshuu's and they go into Pls and the different forms and all that a lot too. Also i find this amusing.
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Jul 7, 2014 22:56
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ManOfTheYear posted:If, for example, Dr. Gero would first have gotten his hands on the remains or Frieza and King Cold (is that his name?) and put their genes on his creations He, uh, he did though? Like that's straight up mentioned when Cell comes around because he is part Frieza.
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Jul 7, 2014 23:15
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Dragonatrix posted:He, uh, he did though? Like that's straight up mentioned when Cell comes around because he is part Frieza. Technically it was his computer that did that.
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Jul 7, 2014 23:23
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NikkolasKing posted:This is why I only enjoy Kid Goku and detest his adult self. Kid Goku was endearing in how naive and simple he was and he made no pretense that he understood anything about love or protecting the world. He straight up went to murder Tambourine after what he did to Krillin. He's almost exactly the same guy. The only difference is that he kills less when he's an adult because The Devil became his friend, so he thinks anyone will become a fun rival later on. You must be picking that up from the American dub. Besides giving him a more typical "heroic" voice, they also added "heroic" lines to make him more of a typical hero. The manga version mostly just got mad when people indiscriminately killed others, or killed his friends, just like when he was a kid, really.
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Jul 8, 2014 00:25
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Goku is basically Gon from HxH with less self-aware irony. (I wouldn't say none, but less.)
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Jul 8, 2014 00:27
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Thyrork posted:18 Pretty much curbstomps Veggy. I don't know, Vegeta gets some pretty good hits in. He loses, yeah, but according to the Official DBZ Power Level Rules, he wouldn't even be able to scratch her if the gap in their powers were huge. It's not like when he pulls out a Final Flash against Perfect Cell and that's the only way that he's able to damage Cell at all, an easily-dodged attack with a five-minute build-up period. He was fighting 18 pretty conventionally. I wish that Future Trunks hadn't said that the present timeline androids were much more powerful than his timeline's androids. I like the idea that Future Gohan could beat one android but not both together because he was a uniquely powerful Super Saiyan. While re-watching the end of the Cell saga, it struck me that maybe Mr. Satan has a decent reason for calling all of this fancy poo poo a trick (at first). If you watch the world tournaments, there are a whole bunch of gimmick fighters who really are relying on tricks instead of fighting ability. Given that Goku & Friends weren't fighting in a tournament for a long time while Mr. Satan won the title, he probably hadn't encountered real ki blasts or anything like that in his fighting career.
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Jul 8, 2014 01:15
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surf rock posted:While re-watching the end of the Cell saga, it struck me that maybe Mr. Satan has a decent reason for calling all of this fancy poo poo a trick (at first). If you watch the world tournaments, there are a whole bunch of gimmick fighters who really are relying on tricks instead of fighting ability. Given that Goku & Friends weren't fighting in a tournament for a long time while Mr. Satan won the title, he probably hadn't encountered real ki blasts or anything like that in his fighting career. Videl straight up didn't know what ki even was before meeting Gohan.
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Jul 8, 2014 01:18
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Some Numbers posted:Videl straight up didn't know what ki even was before meeting Gohan. The only warriors who used ki in the pre Z tournaments were the Z fighters. Granted, the entire world seems to have forgotten about Demon King Piccolo and the Saiyan attack (each having ki used as destruction, perhaps considering one was a 'demon' and the others aliens it was better explained that way), but ki is a rare thing on Earth.
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Jul 8, 2014 01:44
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The entire world kinda forgot that Ki existed in between DB and DBZ. The finals of the 21st, 22sd and 23rd tournament included all kinds of crazy poo poo, but apparently, aside from the announcer, the world just didn't pay that much attention to the guy who grew into a giant. Also, when the official history of the world includes such events as 'The demon lord Piccolo took over the world only to be stopped b a twelve year old' you got to dispense your disbelieve a little. Not to mention that Mr. Satan is older than Goku and Co. Still i really enjoyed the little continuity nods we got, like Piccolo concealing his identity at the Tournament or King Dog remembering Son Goku. edit: Also, all the animal people vanished, too. Maybe those two are connected 
e X fucked around with this message at 01:49 on Jul 8, 2014 |
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Jul 8, 2014 01:44
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surf rock posted:I wish that Future Trunks hadn't said that the present timeline androids were much more powerful than his timeline's androids. I like the idea that Future Gohan could beat one android but not both together because he was a uniquely powerful Super Saiyan. But Future Gohan really wasn't that powerful. He never trained in the Time Chamber and never really tapped into his potential. By the time Trunks goes back in time I'm pretty sure he's capable of the same feat, overpowering one of them but not being able to handle both. Present 17 and 18 being so much freakishly stronger (but also WAY less evil) was a result of history changing (along with 19 and Gero showing up). Also we're talking about Power Escalation Z here, obviously Toriyama's gotta raise the stakes.
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Jul 8, 2014 01:48
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surf rock posted:I don't know, Vegeta gets some pretty good hits in. He loses, yeah, but according to the Official DBZ Power Level Rules, he wouldn't even be able to scratch her if the gap in their powers were huge. And the moment 18 got serious, she basically manhandles Vegeta. She was basically playing around up to the point where she decides to go and break Vegeta's arm (and then his other arm).
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Jul 8, 2014 02:41
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Darko posted:He's almost exactly the same guy. The only difference is that he kills less when he's an adult because The Devil became his friend, so he thinks anyone will become a fun rival later on. The dub did add heroic lines and all that but I just think Goku works best as an ignorant child. Once he's older you expect more responsibility from him. I know you shouldn't but you can't help it. Stuff like tossing his own son to the unstoppable genocidal abomination makes it so I can't stand his adult self. Oh sure Goku has some half-assed plan but it involved his son being tortured extensively. SSJ2 Gohan snapped because at this point he's had his neck broken, saw more death than most people do in an entire lifetime by the time he was about 4 and then his father sold him down the river. Quite frankly, the fact the kid isn't a deranged psychopath is shocking. Gohan should be more like Kamille. Then again, I have come to regard Kamille as one of my favorite protagonists in anime so I think more anime heroes should be like him on principle. NikkolasKing fucked around with this message at 03:23 on Jul 8, 2014 |
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Jul 8, 2014 03:16
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For all of the poo poo he's gone through, Gohan's has a relatively stable family situation and a lot of good friends. He is also (sadly) probably not even old enough to realize how hilariously terrible his life has been. And then he got like a decade of peace to mellow out post Cell, so you know, that helped.
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Jul 8, 2014 05:34
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BlitzBlast posted:For all of the poo poo he's gone through, Gohan's has a relatively stable family situation and a lot of good friends. He is also (sadly) probably not even old enough to realize how hilariously terrible his life has been. I don't know, his friends are like, The Literal Devil, a bald monk his father's age, a green alien and... that's about it. He could use someone his own age at least.
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Jul 8, 2014 05:53
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All of Goku's friends are pretty much his as well. Everyone likes him well enough, at least. Also The Literal Devil turned out to be an actually alright guy. 
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Jul 8, 2014 06:02
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Son of the Devil, folks. Not actually the Devil. The Devil's dead. I imagine Gohan spent a lot of time doing poo poo with Dende in between Cell and Buu. Goku almost got handed the keys to the God-Mobile, his son probably hangs out with the new one daily.
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Jul 8, 2014 06:05
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Gohan also had that Dragon thing as a pet
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Jul 8, 2014 06:35
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NikkolasKing posted:Gohan should be more like Kamille. Then again, I have come to regard Kamille as one of my favorite protagonists in anime so I think more anime heroes should be like him on principle.  Uh...wha...huh? How-- Nope, nevermind. Not gonna get into it. I like Gohan just the way he is, since he's a much stronger character going through those terrible things, confronting his dark side, saying gently caress that and getting his happy ending anyway. No grimdark future for this guy, he's marrying the daughter of Satan and getting a degree.  Gohan and Krillin get good endings in DBZ, and they drat well earned them more than anyone save for maybe Future Trunks. 
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Jul 8, 2014 06:36
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Shinjobi posted:
Who's Kamille and why is praising him bad?
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Jul 8, 2014 06:37
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The main character of Zeta Gundam. Let's just say that the Gundam franchise is very divided on the quality of any given entry and leave it at that.
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Jul 8, 2014 06:49
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BlitzBlast posted:The main character of Zeta Gundam. nobody sane has ever said anything bad about G-gundam.
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Jul 8, 2014 06:58
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ImpAtom posted:I don't know, his friends are like, The Literal Devil, a bald monk his father's age, a green alien and... that's about it. He could use someone his own age at least. Is it just me or can you all tell how old Krillin is from his design? 'cuz I remember back when I first watched DBZ and Namek was mostly about Krillin and Gohan hanging out together, I never had a clue Krillin was way older than Gohan. gently caress trophy 2k14 posted:nobody sane has ever said anything bad about G-gundam. Or War in the Pocket.
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Jul 8, 2014 07:08
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NikkolasKing posted:Is it just me or can you all tell how old Krillin is from his design? 'cuz I remember back when I first watched DBZ and Namek was mostly about Krillin and Gohan hanging out together, I never had a clue Krillin was way older than Gohan. Krillin's design from Dragonball is way way younger looking than his design from Draognball Z.
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Jul 8, 2014 07:10
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NikkolasKing posted:Is it just me or can you all tell how old Krillin is from his design? 'cuz I remember back when I first watched DBZ and Namek was mostly about Krillin and Gohan hanging out together, I never had a clue Krillin was way older than Gohan. Funny, I thought Krillin's design changed a bunch over the course of the series, just in kinda subdued ways until the timeskip before the final tournament in DB.
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Jul 8, 2014 08:05
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Well I freely admit I'm just just not good at noticing these things. So I guess it was my bad. At least I did notice how Vegeta shot up over the course of the series. He was way smaller than Goku in the Saiyan Saga but I think they were about the same height come Buu.
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Jul 8, 2014 08:34
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NikkolasKing posted:Well I freely admit I'm just just not good at noticing these things. So I guess it was my bad.  ? Goku is suppose to be 5'9 and Vegeta is suppose to be 5'5
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Jul 8, 2014 08:59
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