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Scanning the Onyx Path forums has allowed to learn that you are officially not allowed to discuss the contents of the leak on the Exalted forum itself. That must make for a really healthy and cool posting environment.
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Jul 8, 2014 04:31
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Kenlon posted:I just wish they'd open up the playtest and really let us get a look at it. Only take feedback from their chosen players, sure, but putting it out in public makes for a lot more eyes and hands to find the problems. I mean, hell, if the leak is contributing at all to delaying the game, shouldn't that be a hint that more openness would be better? This is exactly what I'm doing with the game I'm cowriting! Select a small bunch of dedicated playtesting groups, give them some questions to answer, mechanics to test, and have them deliver a report after each game. Release the entire playtest to the community, keep an eye on discussion to see if there's any burning issues. Say everyone thinks something's a poo poo idea - they have a discussion and come up with something better. You take it, say thanks and work it into the final draft. Releasing a playtest to the community doesn't oblige you to listen to their feedback, and the argument that releasing the playtest draft would cause them to be flooded with feedback and delay the game is patently poo poo. This leak is not delaying the game. Leaks don't delay games. The developers are delaying the game to punish us for breaking the rules because they've got this petty authoritarian streak.
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Jul 8, 2014 04:33
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NutritiousSnack posted:Check out the Monday Meetings thread on the Onyx Path forum. I literally don't understand how this is possible, I get pushing it back to September for Second Phase playesting but it's loving ridiculous now. The only reference to a year's delay I'm seeing in the Monday Meetings thread is this: Elemental posted:I'd place good money on the PDF being out some point between July 4th 2014 and July 4th 2015. I know it's bold of me to be so precise in my estimates, but I have a vague hunch about this. which is pretty clearly a joke. As an aside, wasn't there going to be a character builder program released around the same time as the corebook? I may be making that up, and a quick scan through the kickstarter didn't have anything jump out at me.
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Jul 8, 2014 04:41
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Dammit Who? posted:As an aside, wasn't there going to be a character builder program released around the same time as the corebook? I may be making that up, and a quick scan through the kickstarter didn't have anything jump out at me. Maybe scan it slower next time: quote:At $575,000 of contributions, our EX3 Dev Team will collaborate to create the Official EX3 Anathema Character Management Toolkit. This free software has evolved and grown with the development of Exalted, but now it is our aim to collaborate with the Anathema team for an EX3 version that releases with EX3 itself.
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Jul 8, 2014 04:44
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Exalted was put into the "God knows when this will be done" box on the release schedule after a minor brouhaha about the constant release date pushbacks at RPGnet, which might be what this whole thing is about. Or there might be something else, I don't know.
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Jul 8, 2014 04:46
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Attorney at Funk posted:Maybe scan it slower next time: I'll scan your face with my fist
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Jul 8, 2014 04:50
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I can't see any evidence for what NutritiousSnack is describing.Ferrinus posted:Scanning the Onyx Path forums has allowed to learn that you are officially not allowed to discuss the contents of the leak on the Exalted forum itself. That must make for a really healthy and cool posting environment. It is super awkward, especially when people start asking about 'hey do we have any idea about [thing leaked]' and we all just metaphorically look at each other and cough.
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Jul 8, 2014 04:50
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RiotGearEpsilon posted:I can't see any evidence for what NutritiousSnack is describing. I'd be shocked if more than like five percent of the posters there hadn't read the leak in full, too. Those conversations must get increasingly funny to read.
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Jul 8, 2014 04:58
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Ferrinus posted:I'd be shocked if more than like five percent of the posters there hadn't read the leak in full, too. Those conversations must get increasingly funny to read. I dunno man, a lot of these people seem insane. Like, just a little bit of searching and you'll see threads about how anyone who reads the leak is literally hitler/the devil, and that they're good and pure and would never read something the devs didn't approve of them reading.
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Jul 8, 2014 05:00
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KittyEmpress posted:I dunno man, a lot of these people seem insane. Like, just a little bit of searching and you'll see threads about how anyone who reads the leak is literally hitler/the devil, and that they're good and pure and would never read something the devs didn't approve of them reading. Consider, though, that the poster read the leak in a moment of weakness and is now ritually scourging themselves about it.
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Jul 8, 2014 05:01
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KittyEmpress posted:I dunno man, a lot of these people seem insane. Like, just a little bit of searching and you'll see threads about how anyone who reads the leak is literally hitler/the devil, and that they're good and pure and would never read something the devs didn't approve of them reading. Those people are at least as likely to have read the leak, if not moreso.
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Jul 8, 2014 05:03
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The person who posted that the game was 'delayed' for a year is literally just some random forum person who made a joke of 'sometime within the year' and Hatewheel has no idea about the delay or anything. I'm just gonna point that at this point it seems like this thread is believing 100% anything that is said on the Onyx Path forums and that's kind of hilarious
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Jul 8, 2014 05:04
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KittyEmpress posted:I dunno man, a lot of these people seem insane. Like, just a little bit of searching and you'll see threads about how anyone who reads the leak is literally hitler/the devil, and that they're good and pure and would never read something the devs didn't approve of them reading. Yeah, this is the kind of Healthy Posting Atmosphere the weird authoritarian attitude towards the playtest leak gets you: WW Forums guy 1 posted:Given how there was this massive leak earlier today, I wouldn't be surprised if they, sadly, clamp down on spoilers and such for a while. WW Forums guy 2 posted:Yeah, among the unhappy consequences of the leak is that it's likely to kill a lot of discussion here, because suddenly there are a ton of people who didn't sign the NDA and know dirt on 3e, and when they try to say that stuff they'll get nailed, and it's hard to imagine the rest of us continuing the tenor of discussion in that context. WW Forums guy 1 posted:Oh wow, I didn't even consider that. I just figured it would cause delays and prevent more spoilers from the Devs. Actually did the devs ever say they were going to delay the game because of the leak? Edit: Man buying into cross-forums drama makes me feel dirty and awful so that's the last time I do that. All I'm doing here is preaching to the converted. Bigup DJ fucked around with this message at 05:13 on Jul 8, 2014 |
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Jul 8, 2014 05:09
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Stallion Cabana posted:The person who posted that the game was 'delayed' for a year is literally just some random forum person who made a joke of 'sometime within the year' and Hatewheel has no idea about the delay or anything. Hmmm... no, that's not true. Actually this thread is believing things that are said in this thread, but checking them just to be sure. Are you going to tell me that Exalted suddenly being delayed a year due to invisible issues that probably in practice relate to some combination of the leak and intrateam tensions isn't plausible? I'd laugh in your face. Bigup DJ posted:Yeah, this is the kind of Healthy Posting Atmosphere the weird authoritarian attitude towards the playtest leak gets you: Pshaw, naw, that's just day one rear end kissing. What I want to see is multiple posters trying to discuss, say, the initiative system, but all of them having to dance around the fact that they know that it's called initiative, that weapon damage and armor soak factor directly into initiative gain, etc.
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Jul 8, 2014 05:13
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Ferrinus posted:Hmmm... no, that's not true. Actually this thread is believing things that are said in this thread, but checking them just to be sure. Are you going to tell me that Exalted suddenly being delayed a year due to invisible issues that probably in practice relate to some combination of the leak and intrateam tensions isn't plausible? I'd laugh in your face. I think it's silly because it seems really weird to just pick a random person who has nothing to do with the game saying that and go 'Oh it must be true let me confirm'. I just think that's silly.
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Jul 8, 2014 05:24
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Stallion Cabana posted:I think it's silly because it seems really weird to just pick a random person who has nothing to do with the game saying that and go 'Oh it must be true let me confirm'. I just think that's silly.
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Jul 8, 2014 05:28
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Ferrinus posted:Scanning the Onyx Path forums has allowed to learn that you are officially not allowed to discuss the contents of the leak on the Exalted forum itself. That must make for a really healthy and cool posting environment. Same with the RPGNet forums.
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Jul 8, 2014 05:29
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Roadie posted:Same with the RPGNet forums. Ahahaha, well, that's not surprising considering how many of them actually work for Onyx Path. That's still hilarious, though.
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Jul 8, 2014 05:31
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Bigup DJ posted:Actually did the devs ever say they were going to delay the game because of the leak?
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Jul 8, 2014 05:37
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Nessus posted:Well it says something when the very idea is credible, doesn't it? fair enough, I suppose.
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Jul 8, 2014 05:48
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Stallion Cabana posted:I think it's silly because it seems really weird to just pick a random person who has nothing to do with the game saying that and go 'Oh it must be true let me confirm'. I just think that's silly. So when you wrote "this thread" you actually meant "NutritiousSnack". I see. Roadie posted:Same with the RPGNet forums. Hah, gently caress, really? That's precious. Hey, why don't they just go whole hog and mandate that every Exalted thread have a (+) in its title? They've clearly got the critical mass of moderators in place. ...why is anyone on the Exalted development or writing team still spending their time being a forums mod anywhere?
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Jul 8, 2014 05:56
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Ferrinus posted:...why is anyone on the Exalted development or writing team still spending their time being a forums mod anywhere? Well, one of those jobs is thankless, stressful, unpaid work that requires you to navigate neurotic directives and teeming masses of needy idiots. The other is moderating RPGNet.
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Jul 8, 2014 05:59
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Attorney at Funk posted:Well, one of those jobs is thankless, stressful, unpaid work that requires you to navigate neurotic directives and teeming masses of needy idiots. The other is moderating RPGNet. And yet both of them give you incredible meaningless social power over those same needy idiots! It's all starting to come together...
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Jul 8, 2014 06:01
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Ferrinus posted:So when you wrote "this thread" you actually meant "NutritiousSnack". I see. it's most like 'He said it then everyone else took it as true then started looking to confirm'. If you want to take it as that though you can, sure.
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Jul 8, 2014 06:04
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Stallion Cabana posted:it's most like 'He said it then everyone else took it as true then started looking to confirm'. If you want to take it as that though you can, sure. It was a really probable statement though. Like if someone told you that it was going to rain later that day when there is heavy cloud cover, would you scoff at them and say "yeah, right"? Folks did due diligence and found there was no such delay, what is the problem man?
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Jul 8, 2014 09:32
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RiotGearEpsilon posted:They pretty explicitly said that they weren't going to delay a thing, although there was some talk of putting the playtesting on hold (which, so far as I know, never happened, because that would be stupid). Just got word last night that the expanded playtesting has ended prematurely. We were told that our contributions weren't more valuable than those of the small group they were using before to playtest. Therefore all further material will only go to said group and the rest of us are out in the cold. This just feels like a delayed reaction to the leak. Mørke is taking his ball home. I'm guessing they weren't able to nail whoever did this.
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Jul 8, 2014 10:18
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NIV3K posted:Just got word last night that the expanded playtesting has ended prematurely. We were told that our contributions weren't more valuable than those of the small group they were using before to playtest. Therefore all further material will only go to said group and the rest of us are out in the cold. Wow! Heart Attacks fucked around with this message at 11:02 on Jul 8, 2014 |
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Jul 8, 2014 10:55
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NIV3K posted:Just got word last night that the expanded playtesting has ended prematurely. We were told that our contributions weren't more valuable than those of the small group they were using before to playtest. Therefore all further material will only go to said group and the rest of us are out in the cold. This is magical. I'm not even mad about Exalted any more, this is entertaining enough already.
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Jul 8, 2014 11:25
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Ferrinus posted:Scanning the Onyx Path forums has allowed to learn that you are officially not allowed to discuss the contents of the leak on the Exalted forum itself. That must make for a really healthy and cool posting environment. The way the exalted developers have treated their fans that literally razed the highest amount of backing for a tabletop ever is down right demonic. Maybe they are trying to make a statement that there is a new Deathlord in town, and that Deathlord is them! By sheer contrast another small developer on Kickstarter is giving his rules out for the game immediately when its over, and has already given out the character sheets, GM sheets, and some system information and is extremely open to player input. In fact after the Kickstarer, the playtesters will be the people who backed the game! It just boggles my mind with the history that Exalted has and the absurd amount of backing that they can't treat them the same. In no attempt to plug, if you are curious the game is called Fragged Empire on Kickstarter now and looks to be great. But, I think part of that greatness is the community sharing. I mean the lore and everything looks amazing, but I bring it up because I just find the very, very stark differences in managing the very people who are helping you push the game insane. It really does kill my love for Exalted on multiple levels, but you guys have heard that before so I will try not to beat down on it. I guess I am just saying I am disheartened for my favorite setting by these developers. I think the community deserves some sort of insight on how things are going.  EDIT: I haven't been in the conversation for some time, has there been a full blown rules leak in the space in time the past 10 pages? I think I have only seen basic stuff like charms/anima powers. Bardlebee fucked around with this message at 11:43 on Jul 8, 2014 |
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Jul 8, 2014 11:39
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Major thing they've learned is to not announce a KS until everything is almost complete, so that if there are any setbacks or having to scrap things over several times then it won't delay things, or at least delay them for too long (unless it's something completely out of their hands like the printing or shipping company loving up.)
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Jul 8, 2014 11:46
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Vadoc posted:Major thing they've learned is to not announce a KS until everything is almost complete, so that if there are any setbacks or having to scrap things over several times then it won't delay things, or at least delay them for too long (unless it's something completely out of their hands like the printing or shipping company loving up.) If they can take that away from this I will be happy for them. Unfortunately I feel like they haven't learned the true lesson, which is what everyone here was hammering in: Let the backers, at minimum, run your system through the ringer. People are still going to buy your book, don't be scared. I'm absolutely fine with the wait, I am not fine with them treating it like its a special gem.
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Jul 8, 2014 11:49
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Onyx Path had done some good RPGs but they completely suck at running the business if they act this way. I wonder if there'll ever be a point where they stop reacting so poorly, sit down and think things with a cool head and decide that maybe the way they are handling Exalted is not optimal and that perhaps a more open approach and use of the huge community of nerds that follow the game could mean a better product in the end. Oh well, I lost any interest in Ex3 a long time ago, all of this is just kinda fun to watch as it develops. edit: Bardlebee posted:By sheer contrast another small developer on Kickstarter is giving his rules out for the game immediately when its over, and has already given out the character sheets, GM sheets, and some system information and is extremely open to player input. In fact after the Kickstarer, the playtesters will be the people who backed the game! It just boggles my mind with the history that Exalted has and the absurd amount of backing that they can't treat them the same. In no attempt to plug, if you are curious the game is called Fragged Empire on Kickstarter now and looks to be great. But, I think part of that greatness is the community sharing. I mean the lore and everything looks amazing, but I bring it up because I just find the very, very stark differences in managing the very people who are helping you push the game insane. Yeah, many games are doing this recently, Worlds in Peril for instance, has the full unedited PDF for download open to anyone, and it's almost the final version! FATE was going to be free from the start, but the fact that they let their backers see the document every step of the way is what made it such a great product, too. Bardlebee posted:If they can take that away from this I will be happy for them. Unfortunately I feel like they haven't learned the true lesson, which is what everyone here was hammering in: Let the backers, at minimum, run your system through the ringer. People are still going to buy your book, don't be scared. I'm absolutely fine with the wait, I am not fine with them treating it like its a special gem. At this point I just get the impression that they don't want to accept that they were wrong in the first place. They have been slowly taking an antagnostic stand against the fans and maybe they feel like re-thinking their approach and changing the way they treat the line would mean they "lost" against the fans. Hugoon Chavez fucked around with this message at 12:10 on Jul 8, 2014 |
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Jul 8, 2014 12:05
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Vadoc posted:Major thing they've learned is to not announce a KS until everything is almost complete, so that if there are any setbacks or having to scrap things over several times then it won't delay things, or at least delay them for too long (unless it's something completely out of their hands like the printing or shipping company loving up.) Here's the thing, though? They (Onyx Path, the RPG company that these dudes write for) already knew to do this. Or at least, part of them did. Because Demon: The Descent launched over 6 months before the Ex3 KS, and posted a semi-final draft minus art with the Kickstarter from the very start. They were completely transparent about what the KS was for on their part, but the other half of Onyx Path just kind of threw papers into the air and howled EXALTED at the top of it's lungs and everyone gave them money despite showing zero, nothing, no rules whatsoever and virtually nothing of substantive worth regarding the product they would be providing except those hilarious mini PDFs that ended up spurring abyssal sex charm chat. e: jesus its too early in the morning to be posting. Demon the Descent's kickstarter came after Ex3's. But this is still not their first kickstarter roundup, and they even posted recently a monday meeting retrospective of all the ones they'd done, and there's like 4 before Ex3 is even mentioned. This entire thing is basically an elaborate Aristocrats joke now. Saman fucked around with this message at 12:09 on Jul 8, 2014 |
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Jul 8, 2014 12:06
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Hugoon Chavez posted:Onyx Path had done some good RPGs but they completely suck at running the business if they act this way. You know at the end of this, its a shame that since playtesting will be so closed doors, you know the quality of the game mechanics simply won't be there in comparison to an open playtest. Such a shame. Wasted money and wasted potential. I guess its too late to take my backer pledge since its been so drat long. I never thought I would say this, but I wish I could get my money back and give it to a developer that deserves it.
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Jul 8, 2014 12:09
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Bardlebee posted:You know at the end of this, its a shame that since playtesting will be so closed doors, you know the quality of the game mechanics simply won't be there in comparison to an open playtest. Such a shame. Wasted money and wasted potential. I guess its too late to take my backer pledge since its been so drat long. I never thought I would say this, but I wish I could get my money back and give it to a developer that deserves it. Yeah this is what's the saddest about the whole thing. Open playtesting and discussion is completely the right way to do it, and it's been proven a bunch of times. You don't even need a huge team to "go trough all of the feedback" since by providing an open discussion the obvious issues are going to be pretty loving clear once people create three different threads and a meme about it. edit: and honestly if people want the game for free once it releases they are not going to go find the playtest documents, but the full blown pirated pdf, so what's the point?
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Jul 8, 2014 12:14
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It's honestly sort of impressive to see the lengths they're going to. It's seriously turning into an ideological last stand for their interpretation of an elfgame.
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Jul 8, 2014 12:20
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Bardlebee posted:You know at the end of this, its a shame that since playtesting will be so closed doors, you know the quality of the game mechanics simply won't be there in comparison to an open playtest. Such a shame. Wasted money and wasted potential. I guess its too late to take my backer pledge since its been so drat long. I never thought I would say this, but I wish I could get my money back and give it to a developer that deserves it. An open playtest also requires listening to the community. If they've actually decided that the feedback of the majority of testers isn't worth having compared to their inner circle, then it probably won't be that much of a change in quality over an open playtest where they primarily listened to that small cadre. The amount of secrecy, and the actions taken to maintain the secrecy, is still absurd, though. I hope, one way or the other, Exalted eventually gets developers who see engaged fans as an asset rather than an obstacle.
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Jul 8, 2014 12:22
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I funded Hillfolk and it took ages, but at least I knew I'd get drafts right away for backing rather than a hot slice of nothing. I didn't fund Exalted 3e precisely because I'd get gently caress all until it came out, at which point I could just buy it normally anyway. Or not if it isn't very good. But depression about the Kickstarter aside, I'm making a 2.5ed Fair Folk character and wondering if there's a good guide written anywhere to help get my head around it and all the errata. There used to be a good one on the Old Forums but that got put to sleep and I haven't found an alternative anywhere yet.
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Jul 8, 2014 12:28
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NIV3K posted:Just got word last night that the expanded playtesting has ended prematurely. We were told that our contributions weren't more valuable than those of the small group they were using before to playtest. Therefore all further material will only go to said group and the rest of us are out in the cold. Hmmm. This seems cool as hell to me, and p. chill to boot.
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Jul 8, 2014 14:19
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Fans posted:But depression about the Kickstarter aside, I'm making a 2.5ed Fair Folk character and wondering if there's a good guide written anywhere to help get my head around it and all the errata. There used to be a good one on the Old Forums but that got put to sleep and I haven't found an alternative anywhere yet. I wrote up a summary of how Shaping Combat works. (It's ST pretending to be FATE) Couldn't help you with the fine points of the errata'd charmset, as I've never sat down and tried to parse the whole thing.
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