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Col.Kiwi posted:It seems to me like the thing you're ignoring/missing, or maybe just don't care about, is the fact that at the end of a lease you don't own the car. You're just talking about monthly numbers, and it seems to me like you're even comparing the monthly cost of leasing to the monthly cost of ownership during loan repayment. Which is an apples to oranges comparison, as there is more to it than the monthly payment. People telling you leasing is crazy are not even all that concerned with the monthly cost, they are more concerned with the fact that whatever your monthly cost might be it's only paying to temporarily borrow the car. I'm sure you understand that at the end of a lease you don't own the car, but it seems like you don't quite grasp that that is why people say leasing was a bad idea and why people aren't bothering to engage you in arguing about specific monthly numbers. Yep, I understand the concept of leasing. Do folks understand the concept of depreciation? I get having a crusade against the inefficiency and decadence of new vehicles, but it's pretty dogmatic to assume that leasing is always far more expensive (looking at the depreciation curve of this car, it's not that much more expensive considering the significant downside risk of new EV technologies being introduced and cratering resale value). Seriously, look at the resale value for this car, 2012 model. I'll wait. Then explain to me how much more expensive leasing is. Don't forget to include the radically different operating costs of an EV over a gas car - primarily, that my monthly payment includes gas, every other payment you've ever looked at likely doesn't. I also don't get the criticism regarding saving money in one area to spend more in another. I live in a cheap area, to afford a nicer car - what's wrong with that? Radbot fucked around with this message at 16:34 on Jul 7, 2014 |
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Jul 7, 2014 16:30
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Radbot posted:Yep, I understand the concept of leasing. Do folks understand the concept of depreciation? I get having a crusade against the inefficiency and decadence of new vehicles, but it's pretty dogmatic to assume that leasing is always far more expensive (looking at the depreciation curve of this car, it's not that much more expensive considering the significant downside risk of new EV technologies being introduced and cratering resale value). Forget about leasing vs. buying The dealership bent you over and hosed you on your lease deal You have a bad lease
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Jul 7, 2014 20:12
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EugeneJ posted:Forget about leasing vs. buying Do you have any numbers to back up why that's a bad lease deal for a 24 month lease, with taxes, with no money up front?
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Jul 7, 2014 22:02
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You're paying a third of the value of the car over two years; after those two years you won't have a car. Modern cars have a lifespan exceeding 12 years.
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Jul 7, 2014 22:04
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FrozenVent posted:You're paying a third of the value of the car over two years; after those two years you won't have a car. Thanks for your input on leasing vs. buying! Maybe you could do a quick Google search and read about why this car won't last 12 years? Perhaps read about what percent of people buy vs. lease this car, and why they do it? It's loving bizarre that no one seems to be able to hammer "THIS CAR PAYMENT INCLUDES FUEL COSTS" into their heads. Once more: (1000mi/35mpg)=28.57*4.10=$117/mo (cost of gas with my old 35mpg car) plus average maintenance (http://www.edmunds.com/toyota/corolla/2009/tco.html?style=100980400) @ $69.67/mo $332, my payment, minus $69.67, minus $117 = $186/mo (delta between operating an old car and leasing and operating a new one) Of course, that doesn't include the price of the old gas car. Let's assume that costs $6k, financed with no interest somehow, for 48 months. That'd be an extra $125/mo, bringing the total delta to $21. So after four years I would pay off the old gas car. Only then would I be paying an incremental $186/mo for a nice new car that doesn't break down. I'm OK with that, it's less than my buddy's cable bill (I don't have cable). Radbot fucked around with this message at 22:18 on Jul 7, 2014 |
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Jul 7, 2014 22:05
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Jesus christ let it drop already. No one gives a poo poo about your lease. If it makes you happy, then go lease cars forever. Just quit posting in this thread about it and start your own.
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Jul 7, 2014 22:17
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Nocheez posted:Jesus christ let it drop already. No one gives a poo poo about your lease. If it makes you happy, then go lease cars forever. Just quit posting in this thread about it and start your own. I think I'll refrain from posting here further if it's more about dogma/circlejerking than, y'know, actual numbers. Thanks though.
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Jul 7, 2014 22:18
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Radbot posted:Thanks for your input on leasing vs. buying! Maybe you could do a quick Google search and read about why this car won't last 12 years? Why would I research why you knowingly bought a lovely car? Literally any of your other options at the price range would last 12 years without major issues (civic, corolla, focus, the list goes on) quote:Perhaps read about what percent of people buy vs. lease this car, and why they do it? quote:It's loving bizarre that no one seems to be able to hammer "THIS CAR PAYMENT INCLUDES FUEL COSTS" into their heads. Where's your rebuttal on insurance? quote:Once more: $21 saved is $21 earned.  quote:So after four years I would pay off the old gas car. Only then would I be paying an incremental $186/mo for a nice new car that doesn't break down. I'm OK with that, it's less than my buddy's cable bill (I don't have cable). And you would OWN something, that has worth. Also, you've completely ignored the fact that you had other options besides a) leasing a leaf, and b) driving your old lovely car. For the same cost monthly cost, you could have purchased a lightly used (or poo poo, a new) civic that holds its value, has great mpg, and isn't a mobile box of staples. Getting trapped into the idea of monthly payments, and wrapping down payments into the cost of the lease/purchase is how they hook, line, and sink the poors/stupid---and you 100% drank the koolaid dude. Radbot, you just haven't heard the answers you wanted. We're not going to give you a pat on the back, get over it. Good riddance, see you later hombre. Dead Pressed fucked around with this message at 22:42 on Jul 7, 2014 |
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Jul 7, 2014 22:28
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edit> nevermind, the leasing conversation needs to end.
Vilgan fucked around with this message at 22:36 on Jul 7, 2014 |
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Jul 7, 2014 22:32
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Also, is electricity free in Radbot land? If so, where is that? You're always going to have fuel costs, on one end or the other, until we invent Mr. Fusion.
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Jul 7, 2014 23:12
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Read the thread.
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Jul 7, 2014 23:25
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Why the hell have you ignored the insurance question 50 bajillion times?
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Jul 7, 2014 23:36
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Radbot posted:Read the thread. You've made about 4000 posts in this thread desperately defending your decision to lease, so forgive me for not reading it in one of your attempts to show us how cool you are because you have an electric car. You didn't mention it in your most recent reply where you considered every possible cost that a gas car could have (including a laughable $70 a month in maintenance... really?,) and I assumed you were glossing over it. After going back, I see you leech from work.  .What about insurance, as was just posted?
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Jul 7, 2014 23:39
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Just this weekend in an interesting coincidence, my mom told me she was thinking of leasing a Leaf. I stopped and rattled off all the points made in this thread, but I think she's still considering it. Granted, my parents can afford it and my mom would be trading in her existing paid off car to do so, but they have odd ideas about car ownership as it is (namely, they have 4 with greatly varying levels of use) and are planning on doing a big remodel on their house since they've decided to retire there instead of sell & downgrade. Whatever, it's their money and I did what I could to prevent it. This won't make or break them, and it's not as if I'll inherit nothing if they go down this road...
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Jul 8, 2014 01:35
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Just so we can settle the car chat, the Nissan Leaf is available as a 36-month lease for $199/month with $1999 down: http://www.choosenissan.com/leaf_all_offers That's $9163 for 3 years of leasing. Radbot is paying $7968 for 2 years of leasing. His dealer hosed him good.
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Jul 8, 2014 02:47
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Just for the the record, I have an SV (about 14% more expensive than the cheaper S you've selected), shorter leases are more expensive, tax also needs to be paid on purchases, as do destination charges. Hopefully you knew that? Also forgot to mention that my first month's payment was paid by the dealer, so the total deal was worth $7,636. I'd be glad to show you how the numbers stack up, just let me know! Feel free to look up comparable lease terms on mynissanleaf.com, I found it was very helpful. Radbot fucked around with this message at 04:55 on Jul 8, 2014 |
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Jul 8, 2014 04:37
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Radbot posted:shorter leases are more expensive "I'm having trouble convincing everyone that my lease was the smart financial move. Hmmmm...I've got it! I'll tell them I'm paying a higher monthly rate to receive the benefit for a shorter amount of time!"
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Jul 8, 2014 05:05
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Radbot just go with you did it for the environment. Sounds good to me. EJ, Just stop posting as you are the worst. Move along now little doggies people with real questions need real help.
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Jul 8, 2014 05:08
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Agreed, nothing further from me.
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Jul 8, 2014 05:30
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Radbot posted:Agreed, nothing further from me. Oh, come on, I was almost there. Content: Is using home equity to buy a car completely insane? A friend just got dragged through a messy, year-long divorce (kids are grown, few assets, still almost went to a drat trial) and her car just took a poo poo. Winter will be here soon and she's determined to not be taking busses. Her house is free and clear, but only worth like $30k. She gets a pension of ~$1200/month and her bills are low, like $400/month. Is there a reputatable bank that won't tell her to kick rocks, w/those numbers? Any potential pitfalls? Other options? Edit: the pension is the entirety of her income, she's out of the workforce for the foreseeable future.
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Jul 9, 2014 05:50
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This is probably a dumb question but I couldn't find another place to ask it. [Disclaimer: I am not in debt and have no problems getting money to pay my card] I get direct deposits to my PNC account (which I opened because there aren't any chase's around here). I have a Chase credit card (which I got before moving here). Is there an easier way to pay off the credit card other than scheduling a recurring transfer at the beginning of each month? So far PNC has really dropped the ball and my transfer still hasn't gone through. Luckily I had enough to cover most of the card but this is ridiculous. I wish I could just cut the chase card entirely but that would utterly gently caress my credit I'm pretty sure. Any advice?
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Jul 9, 2014 06:37
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Get new card and just leave the chase one open. But I am a bit confused, don't you just log onto chases site and make a payment using your PNC routing and account number?
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Jul 9, 2014 06:49
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KillTylerDurden posted:Oh, come on, I was almost there. Is there a reason she wouldn't qualify for an auto loan? All things equal, seems like unsecured debt even at a slightly higher interest rate would be worth the security of not putting her house at risk.
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Jul 9, 2014 06:49
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Mortimer posted:I wish I could just cut the chase card entirely but that would utterly gently caress my credit I'm pretty sure.
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Jul 9, 2014 07:10
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spwrozek posted:Get new card and just leave the chase one open. I didn't know you could do that, and I still don't know if I can. Maybe? Cicero posted:You could just stop using this credit card and use a different one instead? Don't you have to keep using credit cards or else you get hammered on credit score or something?
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Jul 9, 2014 14:08
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Mortimer posted:I didn't know you could do that, and I still don't know if I can. Maybe? Doing something that makes it easier to handle finances is better than prioritizing your credit score above it. And not exactly, as long as the card stats open you are pretty much fine, maybe buy a candy bar with it twice a year or something.
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Jul 9, 2014 14:27
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Mortimer posted:I didn't know you could do that, and I still don't know if I can. Maybe?
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Jul 9, 2014 14:38
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Mortimer posted:Don't you have to keep using credit cards or else you get hammered on credit score or something? No, not really. I mentioned earlier in this thread that Bank of America closed two of my cards because I hadn't used them in years. This included my oldest card (by about four years) and also shaved $10,000 off my total credit limit. The net result of this credit cataclysm was that my credit score dropped ~25 points total, and is still in a very good place. Unless you are planning to apply for a home loan or maybe an auto loan very soon and want to avoid any sudden changes in your credit, it's not going to make any real difference. If this is literally your only line of credit then it might have a more serious impact, but you can solve that by just getting another card that is easier to manage. Credit cards should make your life simpler, not require gamesmanship - if this one isn't working, just put it in a drawer and get a better card. Also all my credit cards are set up so that they automatically debit my checking account prior to the due date - this is set up through each card; can't you do that? I set that up with the cards themselves, not as a transfer through my bank, so it wouldn't matter if PNC is loving around.
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Jul 9, 2014 14:50
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For the Chase CC question, I've found the payment process to be super simple if you go through their web site. You don't even have to put on pants.
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Jul 9, 2014 15:06
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Engineer Lenk posted:Is there a reason she wouldn't qualify for an auto loan? All things equal, seems like unsecured debt even at a slightly higher interest rate would be worth the security of not putting her house at risk. Car loans are secured though, aren't they?
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Jul 9, 2014 18:22
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FrozenVent posted:Car loans are secured though, aren't they? You can get non secured car loans though. They're called personal loans or unsecured loans and are usually a higher interest rate. nelson posted:For the Chase CC question, I've found the payment process to be super simple if you go through their web site. You don't even have to put on pants.
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Jul 9, 2014 19:43
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FrozenVent posted:Car loans are secured though, aren't they? Yeah. I tend to think of them as not since cars are such a rapidly depreciating asset.
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Jul 9, 2014 20:08
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Engineer Lenk posted:Yeah. I tend to think of them as not since cars are such a rapidly depreciating asset. See also: the outrageous number of people upside-down in their car loans. Is it really secured when the underlying asset is worth less, sometimes significantly less, than the amount owed?
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Jul 9, 2014 20:21
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What's the obsession with credit score? In Australia it seems as long as you name doesn't have a negative mark against it and you earn a certain amount of money a bank or a credit union will lend you money.
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Jul 10, 2014 01:06
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Suspicious Lump posted:What's the obsession with credit score? In Australia it seems as long as you name doesn't have a negative mark against it and you earn a certain amount of money a bank or a credit union will lend you money. That's pretty much how it is in the US, too. Though having literally zero credit history can be tough, if you have any credit history (even just a basic credit card or some student loans or whatever) at all and don't have anything sent to collections then your credit score pretty much takes care of itself. I don't get why so many people are so hyperconcerned with their credit score unless they are in the act of buying a house with a mortgage.
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Jul 10, 2014 01:17
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^ a better score gets you a better rate so it is somewhat important when buying a house or financing a car.Mortimer posted:I didn't know you could do that, and I still don't know if I can. Maybe? Yeah go log onto chase, you can pay it in 2 seconds. And chase checking can be fine. Never paid a fee once in 3 years, I think all you need is direct deposit.
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Jul 10, 2014 01:22
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spwrozek posted:^ a better score gets you a better rate so it is somewhat important when buying a house or financing a car. If you need to take on another debt to get a car, you are doing it wrong. Credit scores matter for getting a mortgage w/ the best rates, but people tend to worry about them 10x as much as they should. This is likely due to all the various advertising and marketing and people that want to offer you your credit score for "free" and hope that you forget to cancel within a week so they can hit you with the $70/month subscription fee or whatever. 2 step plan to handle your credit score for life: 1) Don't tell your creditors to gently caress off or miss payments for stupid reasons 2) When you are about a year out from a time when it will actually matter (aka you are about to buy a house), then read up on how to massage it upwards.
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Jul 10, 2014 02:06
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How do I know I'm succeeding as an adult if all the numbers I can track aren't as good as I can possibly make them????? gotta get dat high score
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Jul 10, 2014 02:22
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100 HOGS AGREE posted:How do I know I'm succeeding as an adult if all the numbers I can track aren't as good as I can possibly make them????? gotta get dat high score High score? Gotta max dat credit card balance 
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Jul 10, 2014 03:09
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Suspicious Lump posted:What's the obsession with credit score? In Australia it seems as long as you name doesn't have a negative mark against it and you earn a certain amount of money a bank or a credit union will lend you money. Funny you should say that. The system just changed in Australia to include positive data rather than only recording black marks. So we're probably going to more closely resemble the US in coming years.
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Jul 10, 2014 03:17
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