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Who What Now posted:They'll be poor once they are taxed outrageously and segregated into ghettos on order of the theocratic government. Why would they do that? Anyone can live anywhere they want, and it would be one more tax than the average person. I think you're being pessimistic.
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Jul 9, 2014 16:53
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Smoking Crow posted:Why would they do that? Anyone can live anywhere they want, and it would be one more tax than the average person. I think you're being pessimistic. Please don't strawman my theocracy.
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Jul 9, 2014 16:54
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Atheist theocracies sound pretty lovely.
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Jul 9, 2014 16:56
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Miltank posted:Atheist theocracies sound pretty lovely. Those are called liberal states, my friend
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Jul 9, 2014 16:57
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yeah like I said
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Jul 9, 2014 17:00
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Miltank posted:
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Jul 9, 2014 17:02
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Smoking Crow posted:Uh, the glorious Third Rome, Moscow is still in existence, sir. That's some mad goalpost shifting. But I guess if Moscow falls, we can always keep moving until we get to Glorious Eighty-Seventh Rome in Tweebuffelsmeteenskootmorsdoodgeskietfontein in Holy Transvaal, South Africa!! But hey, does it matter to you which religion the theocracy is? It seems like it doesn't, since you judge a religions worthiness by who had the biggest army, then I guess whatever religion we pick for our government will be the One True Religion by definition since it will have the power to oppress all the rest of them. VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 17:33 on Jul 9, 2014 |
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Jul 9, 2014 17:07
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VitalSigns posted:That's some mad goalpost shifting. How many Romes do you have to go through before you're willing to consign Orthodoxy to the same dustbin to which you consign all other religions without a powerful enough army? Will you get all the way down to Glorious Eighty-Seventh Rome in Tweebuffelsmeteenskootmorsdoodgeskietfontein in Holy Transvaal, South Africa? Don't blame me for Russia's title, blame the tsar for deliberately marrying into the Byzantine dynasty to call itself the New Rome. I want it to be Christian, because that's the one I like the best; most religions are ok, though Smoking Crow fucked around with this message at 17:14 on Jul 9, 2014 |
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Jul 9, 2014 17:10
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The problem with this is you would literally need a God Emperor or else pretty much no one would be okay with the government. Religious leaders aren't actually the voice of god OP. People in general around the world are becoming less and less religious.
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Jul 9, 2014 17:14
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Alexzandvar posted:The problem with this is you would literally need a God Emperor or else pretty much no one would be okay with the government. Religious leaders aren't actually the voice of god OP. Uh, the Pope is when speaking ex cathedra, op
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Jul 9, 2014 17:15
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Luckily Christianity has a long history of democracy.
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Jul 9, 2014 17:15
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I, for one, have been advocating for a Unitarian Universalist theocracy since being gay became a-okay. Submit to your coffee-hour overlords; or don't, whatever. I'm not your keeper!
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Jul 9, 2014 17:15
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Smoking Crow posted:Uh, the Pope is when speaking ex cathedra, op He actually only speaks gods intention, a well educated interpretation if you will. The whole idea of the Pope being the voice of god died after the reformation and the Catholic church's reorganization.
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Jul 9, 2014 17:16
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buttcoin smuggler posted:A theocracy need not be a dictatorship, especially one guided by divinely inspired social justice principles. A modern Catholic state would learn from the errors of the past and probably be much more effective. At turning women into chattel? I'll keep my reproductive freedom and access to education, thanks.
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Jul 9, 2014 17:18
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I disagree that restricting access to contraceptive options reduces women to chattel.
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Jul 9, 2014 17:20
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McAlister posted:At turning women into chattel? The Catholic Church doesn't restrict women's access to education though? Also, I think being a chattel slave has more to do with lack of more important freedoms than reproductive rights and education.
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Jul 9, 2014 17:22
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Miltank posted:I disagree that restricting access to contraceptive options reduces women to chattel. Actually it does, since an unwanted pregnancy is a very easy way to pressure women to get get married or do any number of things. This whole idea of a theocracy just makes no sense outside of the third world since Western Europe and even America is becoming more and more non religious over time. Smoking Crow posted:The Catholic Church doesn't restrict women's access to education though? Also, I think being a chattel slave has more to do with lack of more important freedoms than reproductive rights and education. lol
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Jul 9, 2014 17:22
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it is pretty hosed that women can't be religious leaders in catholicism/orthodoxy hopefully they would fix that.
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Jul 9, 2014 17:23
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Miltank posted:I disagree that restricting access to contraceptive options reduces women to chattel. You're right. It's much more correct to say it reduces women to breeding stock.
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Jul 9, 2014 17:24
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If women are chattel without access to modern contraceptive methods when was the moment that women became not chattel?
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Jul 9, 2014 17:27
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Solution: support research into making men capable of pregnancy and birth.
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Jul 9, 2014 17:30
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Miltank posted:If women are chattel without access to modern contraceptive methods when was the moment that women became not chattel? You answered this in the first half of your question.
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Jul 9, 2014 17:31
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Who What Now posted:You answered this in the first half of your question. What about societies that had no concept of property?
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Jul 9, 2014 17:32
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Alexzandvar posted:Actually it does, since an unwanted pregnancy is a very easy way to pressure women to get get married or do any number of things. This whole idea of a theocracy just makes no sense outside of the third world since Western Europe and even America is becoming more and more non religious over time. You can say what you want about the death of religion, but people were saying in the 60s that by the time of 2000, religion would be dead. America becomes more and less religious in waves called "Awakenings." We just got done with the Fourth one. The idea of God is a strong one that has lasted the test of time and isn't dying out anytime soon. Also, so what you are saying is that the majority of white men in the original 13 colonies were chattel since they didn't have contraceptives or education?
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Jul 9, 2014 17:33
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Progressives are about to discover Christianity again and poo poo is going to get way real. E: Atheists will never make lasting positive social change so pass out gospel tracks quote Jesus at protests.
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Jul 9, 2014 17:34
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AstheWorldWorlds posted:What about societies that had no concept of property? What about them?
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Jul 9, 2014 17:36
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Who What Now posted:What about them? Hard to have chattel when you don't have a concept of property like that? Not that it matters as everyone figured out ways of contraception or abortion.
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Jul 9, 2014 17:38
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Smoking Crow posted:Also, so what you are saying is that the majority of white men in the original 13 colonies were chattel since they didn't have contraceptives or education? Rich white men in the 13 colonies had education; poor white men were disenfranchised. They weren't chattel like women were though, because even poor white men could still own property in their own name, something most women could not do.
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Jul 9, 2014 17:38
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Smoking Crow posted:You can say what you want about the death of religion, but people were saying in the 60s that by the time of 2000, religion would be dead. America becomes more and less religious in waves called "Awakenings." We just got done with the Fourth one. The idea of God is a strong one that has lasted the test of time and isn't dying out anytime soon. Practice of religion is at an all time low in Western Europe and it's trending that way for the US, since when people are educated and have access to good accommodation and a good life whats the point of religion when telling people it will all be better as long as you do what the church says makes no sense because your life is already fine. White men cannot get pregnant.
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Jul 9, 2014 17:40
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Alexzandvar posted:White men cannot get pregnant. Tell that to Arnold Schwarzenegger 
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Jul 9, 2014 17:43
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Alexzandvar posted:Practice of religion is at an all time low in Western Europe and it's trending that way for the US, since when people are educated and have access to good accommodation and a good life whats the point of religion when telling people it will all be better as long as you do what the church says makes no sense because your life is already fine. When lovely old religion dies it makes room for new vibrant faith.
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Jul 9, 2014 17:44
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You people do know that your life doesn't end when you have a kid right
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Jul 9, 2014 17:46
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Miltank posted:Progressives are about to discover Christianity again and poo poo is going to get way real. Christians will never make lasting positive social change either. Nor will Muslims, or Hindus, Sikhs, Jaines, Buddhist, or agnostics. Lasting change is an impossibility, for all of man's works will ultimately be for nought. All that will be left is a dead world made putrid by man's touch, and even that will inevitably be consumed in the fires of a dying star. Everything you work for an believe in will be eradicated as if it never was, and the universe will continue it's slow and inexorable march towards heat death. So party it up now, woooo!
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Jul 9, 2014 17:47
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Who What Now posted:Christians will never make lasting positive social change either. Nor will Muslims, or Hindus, Sikhs, Jaines, Buddhist, or agnostics. Lasting change is an impossibility, for all of man's works will ultimately be for nought. All that will be left is a dead world made putrid by man's touch, and even that will inevitably be consumed in the fires of a dying star. Everything you work for an believe in will be eradicated as if it never was, and the universe will continue it's slow and inexorable march towards heat death. I don't think that is true, op
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Jul 9, 2014 17:50
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Smoking Crow posted:I don't think that is true, op Pretty much is, sorry.
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Jul 9, 2014 17:51
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Smoking Crow posted:You people do know that your life doesn't end when you have a kid right It does if you cannot financially support said kid, food, housing, toys, ect cost money you know that right? Also not every women is just our their yearning to be tied to a home taking care of kids. Miltank posted:When lovely old religion dies it makes room for new vibrant faith. I know this isn't really obvious for a lot of people but the whole belief system that people claim humans need to get through their every day can literally be anything. A belief system is just your understanding of why the world functions as it does, so with education and reason, religion quickly becomes irrelevant.
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Jul 9, 2014 17:51
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Who What Now posted:Christians will never make lasting positive social change either. Nor will Muslims, or Hindus, Sikhs, Jaines, Buddhist, or agnostics. Lasting change is an impossibility, for all of man's works will ultimately be for nought. All that will be left is a dead world made putrid by man's touch, and even that will inevitably be consumed in the fires of a dying star. Everything you work for an believe in will be eradicated as if it never was, and the universe will continue it's slow and inexorable march towards heat death. Sorry bud, evil is real but luckily so is good.
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Jul 9, 2014 17:52
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Smoking Crow posted:I don't think that is true, op I don't think you know what OP means. Also Im sorry you don't know how stars work but it's a fact that the earth will perish as the sun expands.
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Jul 9, 2014 17:52
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Who What Now posted:I don't think you know what OP means. It means original poster and you were the one who posted the thing I quoted I have posted in GBS, so my forums IQ is pretty high  Actually, since it's a logical fallacy to believe that things in the past will be like things in the future, we cannot know that the Sun will expand. The Sun can do whatever it wants, as long as it keeps being happy! Smoking Crow fucked around with this message at 17:56 on Jul 9, 2014 |
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Jul 9, 2014 17:53
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Alexzandvar posted:I know this isn't really obvious for a lot of people but the whole belief system that people claim humans need to get through their every day can literally be anything. A belief system is just your understanding of why the world functions as it does, so with education and reason, religion quickly becomes irrelevant. not really, no.
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Jul 9, 2014 17:53
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