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WickedHate posted:To be fair, they both ended up coming back. Did anyone in DBZ really make a meaningful sacrifice? Not really a sacrifice, but 16's death is permanent and what triggers Gohan's SSJ2 transformation. It's really the only death in the show.
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Jul 9, 2014 03:24
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Zonekeeper posted:Pretty much. No other family in the series has the problems Goku does in regard to that. Vegeta hugging Trunks and asking Piccolo what would happen to his soul after he died before going to blow himself up showed more love and humanity than anything Goku ever did, and Vegeta's the biggest rear end in a top hat in the show. Vegeta's sacrifice felt like an actual sacrifice. Goku's deaths amounted to "I'll hold him and you kill him" and "I didn't know where else to bring this explosive bug man. Sorry, King Kai!". Funny story about that but back when I watched DBZ on Toonami and started the Buu Saga I watched it religiously up to the episode where Vegeta kills himself to destroy Buu. Then the next episode was Episode 1. Thus began Saiyan Saga reruns. For a long time I was convinced that the series ended with that episode. (I had no Internet. Or friends) I mean, even though I was a dumb teenager, it did feel like an ending to me. Plus I was a total Vegeta fanboy so I was more than happy to let it end like that.
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Jul 9, 2014 04:07
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NikkolasKing posted:Funny story about that but back when I watched DBZ on Toonami and started the Buu Saga I watched it religiously up to the episode where Vegeta kills himself to destroy Buu. I can't decide if the series actually ending at that point is really bleak or really awesome.
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Jul 9, 2014 04:38
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Zonekeeper posted:You have a point, but it's the thought that counts. Vegeta's deaths had some weight to them and he let his normally guarded emotions through before each of them. Goku's were pretty much "Eh, they'll bring me back with the Dragonballs. No biggie." That and "Meh, even if I'm dead for good I'll find people to fight in the afterlife. Seeya neglected son, traumatized wife, and infant child!"
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Jul 9, 2014 04:40
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I want TFS to have Goku not even know who Gohan is when he returns from the dead in the Buu saga.
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Jul 9, 2014 04:51
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I feel worst for Goten. There's a kid who Dad did just not give the smallest poo poo about.
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Jul 9, 2014 04:53
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ImpAtom posted:I feel worst for Goten. There's a kid who Dad did just not give the smallest poo poo about. He at least taught him fusion. Edit: Or started to anyways.
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Jul 9, 2014 04:57
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Goten grows up knowing at least one whole friend his own age. Also he has Gohan, who unlike some people would probably take the option to revive and spend some time with his family rather than punch chumps in the goddamn afterlife. I mean, it's not great but I think he might have a better chance than Gohan did.
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Jul 9, 2014 05:34
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Goten grows up entirely well-adjusted. Or at least as well-adjusted as you can get when you decide the best thing to do with your life is open up a dojo training people how to use swords I guess.Squallege posted:I want TFS to have Goku not even know who Gohan is when he returns from the dead in the Buu saga. TFS plans to end DBZA after Cell, or at least assess if the team still has the free time available to tackle Buu.
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Jul 9, 2014 05:53
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BlitzBlast posted:TFS plans to end DBZA after Cell, or at least assess if the team still has the free time available to tackle Buu. I hadn't heard this, but it makes sense. Goku's dead, Gohan's the strongest in the universe and Lani, Taka and Kaiser have lives.
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Jul 9, 2014 06:01
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Yeah where did you hear this? Even if that does happen, I'm fine with. They probably can't keep up this schedule for long.
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Jul 9, 2014 07:01
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The issue might be less with those 3 and more that the other dozen VA's probably make it hard to continue. Think about how many more VA's they have to get for Buu Saga and then tell them to keep in contact for the next 2-3 years.
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Jul 9, 2014 09:40
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They might as well stop for the cell saga since keeping it from jumping the shark for 60+ episodes would probably be a herculean effort and they're not really obligated to perform one of those.
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Jul 9, 2014 09:43
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BlitzBlast posted:Goten grows up entirely well-adjusted. Or at least as well-adjusted as you can get when you decide the best thing to do with your life is open up a dojo training people how to use swords I guess. Wasnt that just a dumb rumor
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Jul 9, 2014 09:43
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Kild posted:Wasnt that just a dumb rumor
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Jul 9, 2014 10:14
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Kild posted:Wasnt that just a dumb rumor Yeah, they have said they have scripted up to Cell, but nothing about stopping there.
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Jul 9, 2014 10:27
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BlitzBlast posted:TFS plans to end DBZA after Cell, or at least assess if the team still has the free time available to tackle Buu. Where the hell do you get that from? The best I can find is them saying that wont make any promises and simply focusing on ending the Cell saga, which is exactly the same they said while doing Frieza. Also, why the hell are people so adamant about the 'true ending ' being after Cell? It seems to come up a lot. e X fucked around with this message at 13:14 on Jul 9, 2014 |
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Jul 9, 2014 13:09
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e X posted:Where the hell do you get that from? The best I can find is them saying that wont make any promises and simply focusing on ending the Cell saga, which is exactly the same they said while doing Frieza. Also, why the hell are people so adamant about the 'true ending ' being after Cell? It seems to come up a lot. Probably the dislike for Buu saga and how it handles Gohan. Also the Buu saga ending was weaker than Cell's.
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Jul 9, 2014 14:03
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Zenzirouj posted:That and "Meh, even if I'm dead for good I'll find people to fight in the afterlife. Seeya neglected son, traumatized wife, and infant child!" You guys have been watching way too much DBZA. The only time Goku does anything that could be considered being a bad father is refusing to come home after Freeza. Goku voluntarily chooses not to be revived at the end of Cell because he feels all these bad things happen due to him being around, and he hopes his absence will bring less trouble to the world. This is pretty much the exact opposite of 'just not giving a poo poo'.
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Jul 9, 2014 14:27
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Again (we talked about this one month ago), Goku, being a grown manchild with mental deficiencies (which is often missed by people who grew up on the American dub, and one small advantage of having the Japanese VA never change her voice for him from childhood to adult), made a bunch of understandable-from-his-perspective mistakes with parenting, but was generally well-meaning at heart. And the series always called him to task for doing such things. His bad parenting is often hugely overplayed by the Internet, who typically exaggerate due to passing memes around as opposed to knowledge of the original source material. This goes on the growing list with "Superman destroyed Metropolis in Man of Steel" and "Welcome to Earf" with things that are misreported and passed on as fact.
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Jul 9, 2014 14:34
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Zonekeeper posted:Pretty much. No other family in the series has the problems Goku does in regard to that. Vegeta hugging Trunks and asking Piccolo what would happen to his soul after he died before going to blow himself up showed more love and humanity than anything Goku ever did, and Vegeta's the biggest rear end in a top hat in the show. Vegeta's sacrifice felt like an actual sacrifice. Goku's deaths amounted to "I'll hold him and you kill him" and "I didn't know where else to bring this explosive bug man. Sorry, King Kai!". I don't know, Goku had a meaningful moment with Gohan before teleporting away with Cell. He tells him he's very proud of him, and says to tell Chichi he's sorry for being selfish all the time.
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Jul 9, 2014 16:40
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facebook jihad posted:Goku voluntarily chooses not to be revived at the end of Cell because he feels all these bad things happen due to him being around, and he hopes his absence will bring less trouble to the world. This is pretty much the exact opposite of 'just not giving a poo poo'. I always thought that this was ridiculous, but his theory really panned out when I considered it. Raditz, Nappa/Vegeta, Freiza/King Cold, the androids and Cell appearing all directly stemmed from Goku's existence, and the world enjoys a wonderfully peaceful ten years with Goku gone. Not only that, but the one day that Goku comes back, Majin Buu is revived using the massive amounts of energy generated by his fight with Vegeta. I guess you could argue that Babidi and Dabura would have eventually scraped together enough energy to break the seal anyway. It's hard to blame Goku for any of these events, but he wasn't wrong that his presence and past actions inadvertently created a lot of issues.
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Jul 9, 2014 18:01
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Basically everyone who died was revived though, leaving the only sticking change being that Vegeta and Buu are now forces for good and Babidi, Dabura, Freeza, and King Cold are dead.
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Jul 9, 2014 18:09
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I buy it as a sort of balance thing. Goku had such a massive amount of positive energy that something negative would have to come along to balance it out. Goku leaving should balance things out in a way that a massive evil presence doesn't need to resurge to restore balance. The rest of the saiyans existing kind of throw a tench into that theory, though.
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Jul 9, 2014 18:22
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surf rock posted:I always thought that this was ridiculous, but his theory really panned out when I considered it. Yeah, but if not for Goku Pilaf would've conquered the world in the very first arc so...
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Jul 9, 2014 18:33
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Petiso posted:Yeah, but if not for Goku Pilaf would've conquered the world in the very first arc so... Oh, I'm sure Pilaf would have found a way to gently caress it all up.
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Jul 9, 2014 18:50
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Vintimus Prime posted:I don't know, Goku had a meaningful moment with Gohan before teleporting away with Cell. He tells him he's very proud of him, and says to tell Chichi he's sorry for being selfish all the time. Yeah I wish that had more fallout especially when the Buu saga ends with him being a selfish manchild again. But I guess it shouldn't be surprising, Goku is a terrible family man, despite what the internet says about the the fixes the Japanese version does (somehow?).
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Jul 9, 2014 18:53
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CharlestheHammer posted:Yeah I wish that had more fallout especially when the Buu saga ends with him being a selfish manchild again. But I guess it shouldn't be surprising, Goku is a terrible family man, despite what the internet says about the the fixes the Japanese version does (somehow?). Goku is a pretty negligent dad but if I'm not mistaken, he goes back to see his family even when he's focusing on Uub's training. Basically, Goku doesn't entirely get the whole "father" business but it's been exaggerated for comedic effect. loving shocking, don't know why this is such a sticking point.
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Jul 9, 2014 18:57
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facebook jihad posted:Not really a sacrifice, but 16's death is permanent and what triggers Gohan's SSJ2 transformation. It's really the only death in the show. At least he knew there was an afterlife, after all it is shown a couple of times that Android 19, another full robot, was in the afterlife :P
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Jul 9, 2014 18:57
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Lumberjack Bonanza posted:Goku is a pretty negligent dad but if I'm not mistaken, he goes back to see his family even when he's focusing on Uub's training. I think its dumb and not very funny. Though I don't remember it being a joke all that often, except in like Dragonball. Except in DBZA, its an okay joke there, but its only slightly exaggerated there even.
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Jul 9, 2014 19:00
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CharlestheHammer posted:I think its dumb and not very funny. Though I don't remember it being a joke all that often, except in like Dragonball. I meant been exaggerated on the Internet. In the actual series it just seems kinda hosed. The reason why it works in DBZA is that they push it just that little amount.
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Jul 9, 2014 19:02
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Lumberjack Bonanza posted:I meant been exaggerated on the Internet. In the actual series it just seems kinda hosed. I guess I just don't see the exaggeration? I dunno, I think the weird explaining it away stuff is dumber.
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Jul 9, 2014 19:15
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They have had Buu and Goten's voice actors casted for years now for the Buu Saga and Lanipator said in an AMA about a year ago that a lot of their potential for parody is in the Buu Saga so they want to get to there. Things change and people have lives, but if that was the central factor in not getting into it they'd have stopped at Freeza like years ago.
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Jul 9, 2014 19:32
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CharlestheHammer posted:I guess I just don't see the exaggeration? I dunno, I think the weird explaining it away stuff is dumber. Really? Ok, off the top of my head. He is deeply concerned and desperate to save Gohan when Radditz captures him. He saves Gohan against Nappa. He first checks on Gohan and seems genuinely happy to see him when he arrives on Namek. He trains with Gohan and stays in the general area of his house prepping for the androids. He cares for and trains with Gohan in the room of spirit and time. Forgoes training again to spend time with Gohan and Chichi before the Cell Games. Sacrifices himself to save the planet and does not want to be wished back due to reasons stated above. Helps out and encourages Gohan in the final stand with Cell. Comes back and sees his family and friends at the beginning of the Buu Saga. Pretty much only sees and stays with his family for the decade after Buu. Bad things: Stays on Yardrat (which turned out to be very helpful later on) Leaves family to train Uub (but promises to see the family anyway, and does it because Uub is in a starving village or something). That's two things compared to a lot of others. I don't see the issue.
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Jul 9, 2014 19:35
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Beef Waifu posted:They have had Buu and Goten's voice actors casted for years now for the Buu Saga and Lanipator said in an AMA about a year ago that a lot of their potential for parody is in the Buu Saga so they want to get to there. Things change and people have lives, but if that was the central factor in not getting into it they'd have stopped at Freeza like years ago. I can't even remember where I found that "they're thinking about stopping after Cell" thing so I was thinking it was probably bullshit. Good to hear it is.
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Jul 9, 2014 19:57
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facebook jihad posted:Really? Well he also pushed Gohan against Cell and gave Cell a Sensu but yeah thats about it.
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Jul 9, 2014 20:03
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facebook jihad posted:Leaves family to train Uub (but promises to see the family anyway, and does it because Uub is in a starving village or something). I want to say it was said somewhere (maybe that MMO?) that Goku ended up training Uub fairly close to home too, so he basically wasn't gone at all.
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Jul 9, 2014 20:07
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CharlestheHammer posted:I guess I just don't see the exaggeration? I dunno, I think the weird explaining it away stuff is dumber. - He spent the entire time from the end of Dragon Ball to the beginning of Z with his family, even though he only married Chi Chi because he promised to, when he thought it just meant him getting food. - His crazy Saiyan brother showed up and told him there were a bunch of scary people in space he needed to worry about. He got killed stopping him from taking his son. - He comes back to life, is promptly beaten up and out of commission for a while. - He shows back up when his son is on death's door fighting an evil alien emperor, makes him leave so he doesn't get killed, beats up the emperor, barely escapes, and ends up on a planet of people that help him and teach him to teleport. - He comes back to earth, learn some crazy androids are coming that are worse than the emperor, trains with his son and his son's demon godfather for years. - Trains with his son directly for another year when he learns about Cell. Spends a week with his son and his family. - Because of training with his son for like 4 years straight, starts to think of him too much as one of his chummy fighters as opposed to his son. Lets Cell beat him up some because of that because he knows how much more powerful he is. Piccolo makes him realize this, and he realizes his mistake and reverts. Ends up getting killed. - Blames the past 8 or whatever years of trouble on him being around (Radditz brought Vegeta/Freeza, Gero brought the androids). Stays dead because of that. - The world is peaceful for years. He knocked up Chi Chi before dying, whoops. He comes back to life for a day to hang out with his family and friends and go to the tournament. Buu shows up. Stuff happens. - He asks for Buu to be reincarnated as a nice guy. He spends years with his family again, goes to a tournament, sees the nice guy, and says he's going to train him and poofs off. The Internet forgets about all the intervening years he spent with family, why Goku handled the Cell fight wrong (spending literal years straight training with his son and thinking of him as a fighter as opposed to a kid, which was the entire point of the sequence), and also takes GT as fact (which had Goku literally go off and train Uub for like 10 years or something as opposed to training him and popping back in to be with family).
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Jul 9, 2014 20:14
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Just reposting the Nekomajin Z panel where he is seeing traning Uub at home.
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Jul 9, 2014 21:54
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Goku rules!
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Jul 9, 2014 22:51
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