Magic: The Gathering: The Megathread: Tenth Edition

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Sleep of Bronze: Feb 9, 2013; If I could only somewhere find Aias, master of the warcry, then we could go forth and again ignite our battle-lust, even in the face of the gods themselves.

Yeah, I saw it when I was going through some of the Oracle revisions after someone provided that link to all the updates. It's not like drawing, where 'draw three' = 'draw one; draw one; draw one'. Everything happens simultaneously with the exiles, so there isn't a 'last card' for the spell to check.

quote:

Rally the Horde
This one isn't a functional change, per se, but it turns out this card may not have really, um... worked before. This card instructed you to exile the top three cards of your library and then look at the "last card exiled." But the three cards are exiled at the same time, so there isn't a "last card." There were several options to fix this, but this new wording did the best job of unambiguously pointing at the right card, even if there were two or fewer cards left in your library.

New Rally the Horde wording:
Exile the top card of your library. Exile the top card of your library. Exile the top card of your library. If the last card exiled isn't a land, repeat this process until the last card exiled is a land. Put a 1/1 red Warrior creature token onto the battlefield for each nonland card exiled this way.

Sleep of Bronze fucked around with this message at 21:58 on Jul 9, 2014

# ? Jul 9, 2014 21:56

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# ? Jun 7, 2024 17:25

Jenx: Oct 17, 2012; Behold the Bull of Heaven!

I play modern storm regularly, though the only thing I don't really have is the fetches (which are really not that big of a deal. Plus I do have one arid mesa, so I guess that's still something).

Modern storm is, actually, quite fragile. You will not be keeping perfect hands every single game, or at least not unless you're 1. Cheating and 2. The luckiest bastard in the world. So you get to keep sort of okay hands, with a few filtering cards to hopefully set yourself up. If the opponent counters those two set up spells, or your ascension on turn 2 (and I mean actually counter, not just Remand it) it is likely that it will take you back at least 2-3 turns, if not longer.

Now, obviously, once storm starts going off it's a lot harder to actually stop it, but at that point all you need to do is have a relic in play with one mana open. Once Past in Flames is on the stack, you exile their graveyard and it's very likely that storm loses at that point.

In short - if you can't beat modern storm it's your own drat fault.

# ? Jul 9, 2014 22:30

mbt: Aug 13, 2012

Jenx posted:

I play modern storm regularly, though the only thing I don't really have is the fetches (which are really not that big of a deal. Plus I do have one arid mesa, so I guess that's still something).

Modern storm is, actually, quite fragile. You will not be keeping perfect hands every single game, or at least not unless you're 1. Cheating and 2. The luckiest bastard in the world. So you get to keep sort of okay hands, with a few filtering cards to hopefully set yourself up. If the opponent counters those two set up spells, or your ascension on turn 2 (and I mean actually counter, not just Remand it) it is likely that it will take you back at least 2-3 turns, if not longer.

Now, obviously, once storm starts going off it's a lot harder to actually stop it, but at that point all you need to do is have a relic in play with one mana open. Once Past in Flames is on the stack, you exile their graveyard and it's very likely that storm loses at that point.

In short - if you can't beat modern storm it's your own drat fault.

Yeah, who can't beat a strong top tier deck? If you can't you're bad as hell :smug:

# ? Jul 9, 2014 22:37

Orange Fluffy Sheep: Jul 26, 2008; Bad EXP received

Sleep of Bronze posted:

Yeah, I saw it when I was going through some of the Oracle revisions after someone provided that link to all the updates. It's not like drawing, where 'draw three' = 'draw one; draw one; draw one'. Everything happens simultaneously with the exiles, so there isn't a 'last card' for the spell to check.

Amazing it took them 6 years to notice the card didn't work, but I suppose what it was meant to do was clear enough.

# ? Jul 9, 2014 22:38

Entropic: Feb 21, 2007; patriarchy sucks

Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:

Amazing it took them 6 years to notice the card didn't work, but I suppose what it was meant to do was clear enough.

There used to be a lot more cards like that, which just technically didn't work as worded under the rules, but it was so obvious how they were meant to work that no one much cared.

# ? Jul 9, 2014 22:40

Sleep of Bronze: Feb 9, 2013; If I could only somewhere find Aias, master of the warcry, then we could go forth and again ignite our battle-lust, even in the face of the gods themselves.

Then, of course, next update ...

quote:

Rally the Horde
The changes we made to this card in the last update were so amusing that I just wanted to see them again. Okay, not really. Cards that repeat a process shouldn't repeat it until a condition that may never occur. This card did, so we reworked it slightly.

New Rally the Horde wording
Exile the top card of your library. Exile the top card of your library. Exile the top card of your library. If the last card exiled isn't a land, repeat this process. Put a 1/1 red Warrior creature token onto the battlefield for each nonland card exiled this way.

# ? Jul 9, 2014 22:48

Mikujin: May 25, 2010; (also a lightning rod)

Mortimer posted:

Yeah, who can't beat a strong top tier deck? If you can't you're bad as hell

I beat Storm by killing them before they kill me. Which is on occasion turn 1.

# ? Jul 9, 2014 22:48

born on a buy you: Aug 14, 2005; Odd Fullback
Bird Gang
Sack Them All

Jenx posted:

I play modern storm regularly, though the only thing I don't really have is the fetches (which are really not that big of a deal. Plus I do have one arid mesa, so I guess that's still something).

Modern storm is, actually, quite fragile. You will not be keeping perfect hands every single game, or at least not unless you're 1. Cheating and 2. The luckiest bastard in the world. So you get to keep sort of okay hands, with a few filtering cards to hopefully set yourself up. If the opponent counters those two set up spells, or your ascension on turn 2 (and I mean actually counter, not just Remand it) it is likely that it will take you back at least 2-3 turns, if not longer.

Now, obviously, once storm starts going off it's a lot harder to actually stop it, but at that point all you need to do is have a relic in play with one mana open. Once Past in Flames is on the stack, you exile their graveyard and it's very likely that storm loses at that point.

In short - if you can't beat modern storm it's your own drat fault.

This post alone makes it incredibly clear you're a bad storm player. The tricks to beat storm are: 1) counter their first set up piece, 2) counter past in flames, 3) relic their GY with past in flames on the stack, and 4) hope they're a bad pilot. Modern storm isn't as resilient as Twin, but it is still a very strong combo that can win out of nowhere around disruption.

# ? Jul 9, 2014 22:50

Orange Fluffy Sheep: Jul 26, 2008; Bad EXP received

Entropic posted:

There used to be a lot more cards like that, which just technically didn't work as worded under the rules, but it was so obvious how they were meant to work that no one much cared.

They took the time to make it work, though. I love how internally consistent Magic is. Even confusing old poo poo like Sylvan Library and Chains of Mephistopholes is made to work in modern rules. It's refreshing to consider that the game I played before was Yu-Gi-Oh, where the difference in text between Earthquake and Hurricane meant they performed fairly significantly different and you had to memorize rules posted online in order to know this.

# ? Jul 9, 2014 22:53

Kraus: Jan 17, 2008

With that Rally The Horde change, I still find it a bit baffling that a game that can literally see into the future (Equinox) and into the past (First Response) can't count.

I guess part of their design philosophy is to make the players' minds not part of the system that is Magic.

# ? Jul 9, 2014 22:53

Zoness: Jul 24, 2011; Talk to the hand.; Grimey Drawer

I don't know how you guys are piloting storm but the only time Relic really sets me back is if I managed to discard both/all my grapeshots with desperate ravings/thought scours or I haven't had the time to sculpt a hand. I'm definitely not committing to a PiF all-in with an active relic.

Once Ascension is active it's really easy to keep a reasonably-stocked grip of relevant material as long as your win condition still exists in your deck somewhere. Electromancer still relies on having Past in Flames resolve, but it's not hard to sculpt a hand that can recover from a Relic exile activation.

# ? Jul 9, 2014 22:58

cheetah7071: Oct 20, 2010; honk honk; College Slice

Kraus posted:

With that Rally The Horde change, I still find it a bit baffling that a game that can literally see into the future (Equinox) and into the past (First Response) can't count.

I guess part of their design philosophy is to make the players' minds not part of the system that is Magic.

I know it's a common joke, but Equinox doesn't actually see into the future. When equinox's activated ability resolves, it checks if the targeted spell would, if it were to resolve right this instant, be guaranteed to destroy any lands. This has a lot of weird corner cases and odd rules, but the game isn't looking into the future any more than blind obedience does when it checks whether Thassa enters the battlefield tapped or not.

# ? Jul 9, 2014 23:03

vOv: Feb 8, 2014

Kraus posted:

With that Rally The Horde change, I still find it a bit baffling that a game that can literally see into the future (Equinox) and into the past (First Response) can't count.

I guess part of their design philosophy is to make the players' minds not part of the system that is Magic.

It can count. The problem is that under the rules, when you exile three cards from your library you exile them all at the same time, similar to what happens when you cast Second Sunrise or a wrath effect or whatever. So how do you determine which one is the 'third'?

# ? Jul 9, 2014 23:13

Brownhat: Jan 25, 2012; One cannot be a good person and enforce unjust laws.

Zoness posted:

I don't know how you guys are piloting storm but the only time Relic really sets me back is if I managed to discard both/all my grapeshots with desperate ravings/thought scours or I haven't had the time to sculpt a hand. I'm definitely not committing to a PiF all-in with an active relic.

Once Ascension is active it's really easy to keep a reasonably-stocked grip of relevant material as long as your win condition still exists in your deck somewhere. Electromancer still relies on having Past in Flames resolve, but it's not hard to sculpt a hand that can recover from a Relic exile activation.

Yeah, I have to agree with Zoness here. I played Storm in a Modern PTQ last Sunday, and Relic just isn't that big of a problem if you play around it properly. I lost two matches on Sunday: One to me playing like an idiot in round one, and another to Eidolon of the Great Revel. The matches I won all involved them bringing in piles of graveyard hate. Graveyard hate can slow me down, but you have to also present a fast clock of your own for it to matter.

# ? Jul 9, 2014 23:19

Jenx: Oct 17, 2012; Behold the Bull of Heaven!

Here's a shocking idea - sometimes you can't play around it properly. I've won games through multiple Relics, so I am well aware it can happen. Except sometimes it doesn't.

# ? Jul 9, 2014 23:33

Rinkles: Oct 24, 2010; What I'm getting at is...
Do you feel the same way?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vk-x2CW-lo&t=853s

Heh, I'm a little bit confused

# ? Jul 9, 2014 23:34

Babylon Astronaut: Apr 19, 2012

That's the bitch of it isn't it. Sometimes you eat the bar, sometimes the bar eats you.

# ? Jul 9, 2014 23:35

Ramos: Jul 3, 2012

Rinkles posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vk-x2CW-lo&t=853s

Heh, I'm a little bit confused

Basically, you can activate its ability multiple times before the first one goes off. So long as it can exchange each time, i.e. the thing it swaps with is under the control of someone who doesn't control it, you can switch all sorts of things around.

It's rather silly, honestly.

# ? Jul 9, 2014 23:45

Rinkles: Oct 24, 2010; What I'm getting at is...
Do you feel the same way?

Ramos posted:

Basically, you can activate its ability multiple times before the first one goes off. So long as it can exchange each time, i.e. the thing it swaps with is under the control of someone who doesn't control it, you can switch all sorts of things around.

It's rather silly, honestly.

Ah, that makes sense. If a bit unintuitive.

e:

Rulings

It is possible to activate this ability in response to itself and generate some odd combinations. For example, if you control this card and another permanent, you can use this card's ability and target the permanent you control. You can then use this card's ability again and target a permanent your opponent controls. The second usage resolves first and you get your opponent's permanent in exchange for this one. The first usage then resolves and swaps your other permanent for the Totem so you get it back. The net effect is that you can swap any non-land permanent you have for any of theirs if you can activate this ability twice. Note that your opponent does get the chance to use the Totem in between the resolutions of your two usages if they have the mana.

# ? Jul 9, 2014 23:53

Gyshall: Feb 24, 2009; Had a couple of drinks.
Saw a couple of things.

Finally opened a Black Lotus on MODO. Today is a good day.

# ? Jul 9, 2014 23:57

Tonetta: Jul 9, 2013; look mother look at ME MOTHER MOTHER I AM A HOMESTIXK NOW

**methodically removes and eats own clothes*

Quick obscure rules question. Let's say you have a cryptoplasm out and you flip it to be a sower of temptation on your upkeep, which obviously doesn't do a whole lot on its' own. Now I play some kind of clone spell that copies the crytpoclasm. I have a sower cryptoplasm that will now actually take a guy. What would happen if on the following upkeep I changed the cryptoplasm that has a guy sowered onto him? My gut feeling says that I lose the control magic effect but I'm not 100% on that, thus asking here

# ? Jul 10, 2014 00:17

cheetah7071: Oct 20, 2010; honk honk; College Slice

Homo for Hitler posted:

Quick obscure rules question. Let's say you have a cryptoplasm out and you flip it to be a sower of temptation on your upkeep, which obviously doesn't do a whole lot on its' own. Now I play some kind of clone spell that copies the crytpoclasm. I have a sower cryptoplasm that will now actually take a guy. What would happen if on the following upkeep I changed the cryptoplasm that has a guy sowered onto him? My gut feeling says that I lose the control magic effect but I'm not 100% on that, thus asking here

You will control the stolen creature even if Sower loses its ability.

# ? Jul 10, 2014 00:26

suicidesteve: Jan 4, 2006; "Life is a maze. This is one of its dead ends.

I just played my first round on MODO, a Vintage Masters draft. I don't see why everyone complains about it so much. Granted, the main interface is the absolute worst, but once you spend an hour figuring out how to actually get into a game it's fine.

I went 2/1 with a BW "aggro" deck. and drafted a shiny Brainstorm, so yay I think. It's good to know my terrible luck extends to virtual cards, at least. Out of 9 games, I had one starting hand where I could cast a card. The only double color card I had in my deck was Hymn and more than half of my deck was 2 cost guys. My third round was me drawing all white cards and swamps in game 1 and all black cards with and plains in game 3. :sigh:

# ? Jul 10, 2014 00:55

Gyshall: Feb 24, 2009; Had a couple of drinks.
Saw a couple of things.

suicidesteve posted:

I just played my first round on MODO, a Vintage Masters draft. I don't see why everyone complains about it so much. Granted, the main interface is the absolute worst, but once you spend an hour figuring out how to actually get into a game it's fine.

I went 2/1 with a BW "aggro" deck. and drafted a shiny Brainstorm, so yay I think. It's good to know my terrible luck extends to virtual cards, at least. Out of 9 games, I had one starting hand where I could cast a card. The only double color card I had in my deck was Hymn and more than half of my deck was 2 cost guys. My third round was me drawing all white cards and swamps in game 1 and all black cards with and plains in game 3.

The new MODO beta update today (?) is actually pretty good. The interface is getting a bit more practical, and the battle scene is pretty good too.

# ? Jul 10, 2014 01:08

Sarcastro: Dec 28, 2000; Elite member of the Grammar Nazi Squad that

Sleep of Bronze posted:

are judged by a sort of ghostly telepathic steward Azorius left behind to have understood co-operation and the reasons for a Guildpact, Azorius' magic can re-instate it.

...so, in other words, friendship is magic?

quote:

Oh, and the Dimir managed to go two for two in having their guild leaders be the worst kind of cackling Black psychos over the Ravnica blocks. Lazav wants the Verdict to go off, for no reason explained beyond "LOL PEOPLE DIE".

That at least makes sense for Lazav - something dying means he can turn into that something if it's cool.

# ? Jul 10, 2014 02:02

Gensuki: Sep 2, 2011

Is there any card art that is just a closeup of someone dramatically getting punched in the face? It would be better if it was straight on the nose, but a follow through with the recipient's head being turned away would be cool too.

# ? Jul 10, 2014 02:17

suicidesteve: Jan 4, 2006; "Life is a maze. This is one of its dead ends.

Gensuki posted:

Is there any card art that is just a closeup of someone dramatically getting punched in the face? It would be better if it was straight on the nose, but a follow through with the recipient's head being turned away would be cool too.

Onslaught's Swat? It's not really a punch, but it's pretty close.

# ? Jul 10, 2014 02:25

AlternateNu: May 5, 2005; ドーナツダメ！

suicidesteve posted:

Onslaught's Swat? It's not really a punch, but it's pretty close.

Why ask for a punch, when you can get something much more satisfying? :unsmigghh:

# ? Jul 10, 2014 02:29

Entropic: Feb 21, 2007; patriarchy sucks

AlternateNu posted:

Why ask for a punch, when you can get something much more satisfying?

Like a fish tied to a brick?

# ? Jul 10, 2014 02:34

Gensuki: Sep 2, 2011

AlternateNu posted:

Why ask for a punch, when you can get something much more satisfying?

Honestly? There's too much resistance in that picture, and it implies a long fight. I thought of it though, Stranglehold is great. I am just imagining a red counterspell that can only counter counterspells and is itself uncounterable, and was thinking of a Red Mage (Or Green Mage) Just telling a Blue Mage to shut up in the fastest, easiest way.

There should be formal art of Garruk punching Jace in the face.

Entropic posted:

Like a fish tied to a brick?

Lorwyn is great.

# ? Jul 10, 2014 02:38

JerryLee: Feb 4, 2005; THE RESERVED LIST! THE RESERVED LIST! I CANNOT SHUT UP ABOUT THE RESERVED LIST!

Classic Quinton Hoover art even :love:

# ? Jul 10, 2014 02:43

Eeevil: Oct 28, 2010; Well obviously he didn't see it, or he'd be wearing a hardhat

Homo for Hitler posted:

Let's say you have a cryptoplasm out and you flip it to be a sower of temptation on your upkeep, which obviously doesn't do a whole lot on its' own. Now I play some kind of clone spell that copies the crytpoclasm. I have a sower cryptoplasm that will now actually take a guy.

You wouldn't actually get a Cryptoplasm copying a Sower with the clone. Clone effects copy the base creature, I'm pretty sure.

e: nevermind, it says right in the rulings I'm wrong.

Eeevil fucked around with this message at 02:54 on Jul 10, 2014

# ? Jul 10, 2014 02:47

whydirt: Apr 18, 2001; Gaz Posting Brigade

It's not a closeup, but Knight Watch has a pretty sweet punch scene.

# ? Jul 10, 2014 02:57

neetengie: Jul 17, 2013; Shittiest taste in anime and video games.

Yo, does anyone have a few articles on hand that will help someone really new to playing understand Sealed, along with Constructed? Talking with a guy who's pretty new and going to his first pre-release this weekend.

# ? Jul 10, 2014 03:05

Gensuki: Sep 2, 2011

JerryLee posted:

Classic Quinton Hoover art even

This is great!

whydirt posted:

It's not a closeup, but Knight Watch has a pretty sweet punch scene.

And so is this, though a bit far away, the flavor text helps it a lot.

# ? Jul 10, 2014 03:09

Zemyla: Aug 6, 2008; I'll take her off your hands. Pleasure doing business with you!

Gensuki posted:

Is there any card art that is just a closeup of someone dramatically getting punched in the face? It would be better if it was straight on the nose, but a follow through with the recipient's head being turned away would be cool too.

Not quite a punch, but Sudden Impact is close enough.

# ? Jul 10, 2014 03:12

Cernunnos: Sep 2, 2011; ppbbbbttttthhhhh~

neetengie posted:

Yo, does anyone have a few articles on hand that will help someone really new to playing understand Sealed, along with Constructed? Talking with a guy who's pretty new and going to his first pre-release this weekend.

The Pre-release Primer posted a few days ago has some advice and helpful links for Sealed/Limited.

As for Constructed I have no idea how to help there. I only build bad/gimmicky decks. :shobon:

# ? Jul 10, 2014 03:13

Spiderdrake: May 12, 2001

For constructed the DOTP games were fine, the way it sorts casting costs and the flow of the game tends to drill a lot of basic lessons into your head about deck construction before you dive into making your own decks. Not really sure how the new one is going to be given it looks like some weird... thing, though.

JerryLee posted:

Classic Quinton Hoover art even

I went through CFB looking to buy some old Quinton Hoover cards and a lot of them are a fair bit more than I thought they would be. Like I don't think Pixie Queen is tearing up any EDH tables but she still manages to be six bucks!

Googling him and finding out he's dead was a real bummer too

# ? Jul 10, 2014 03:34

tirinal: Feb 5, 2007

I'm kind of getting back into Magic. Is there an illusion tribal deck that is competitive? I'm not looking for something tier 1; just something that can win games with a high skill cap and is somewhat cheap (<$200).

# ? Jul 10, 2014 06:45

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# ? Jun 7, 2024 17:25

a dozen swans: Aug 24, 2012

tirinal posted:

I'm kind of getting back into Magic. Is there an illusion tribal deck that is competitive? I'm not looking for something tier 1; just something that can win games with a high skill cap and is somewhat cheap (<$200).

Are you looking for a casual "kitchen-table" deck? Standard? Modern? Legacy?

# ? Jul 10, 2014 06:47

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