AusPol July: Less stable than the Something Awful forums

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Les Affaires: Nov 15, 2004

Ragingsheep posted:

Regarding the carbon tax - did 'green' alternatives (e.g. electricity from renewable sources vs from coal) get cheaper on a relative basis to other products?

Yes, solar and wind have been smashing through the floor in terms of cost per kilowatt hour. There was a report on Four Coroners about it this week (last week?).

Link below:

http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/stories/2014/07/07/4038488.htm

# ? Jul 10, 2014 08:09

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# ? Jun 10, 2024 06:16

Hypation: Jul 11, 2013; The White Witch never knew what hit her.

Ragingsheep posted:

Regarding the carbon tax - did 'green' alternatives (e.g. electricity from renewable sources vs from coal) get cheaper on a relative basis to other products?

Yes.

The price of coal continues to rise as extraction costs increase and the cost of solar PV for instance continues to fall.
Meanwhile the cost of eg Solar PV is falling in absolute dollar terms and on a per ounce of gold basis which means they are getting cheaper relative to a very wide range of products.

# ? Jul 10, 2014 08:09

Freudian Slip: Mar 10, 2007; "I'm an archivist. I'm archiving."

There was also a cool segment on the 7:30 report last night how people are becoming self-sufficient energy wise

http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2014/s4042832.htm

(also that we are spending billions on infrastructure that we soon may not need)

# ? Jul 10, 2014 08:12

Hypation: Jul 11, 2013; The White Witch never knew what hit her.

Freudian Slip posted:

There was also a cool segment on the 7:30 report last night how people are becoming self-sufficient energy wise

http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2014/s4042832.htm

(also that we are spending billions on infrastructure that we soon soon may not need)

Why do you think Mike Baird is selling the electricity distribution assets in NSW?

If the buyers find out about "Grid Death Spiral" then the $15 billion price tag might be somewhat difficult to achieve.

# ? Jul 10, 2014 08:13

Implants: Feb 14, 2007

Hypation posted:

Why do you think Mike Baird is selling the electricity distribution assets in NSW?

If the buyers find out about "Grid Death Spiral" then the $15 billion price tag might be somewhat difficult to achieve.

To elaborate on grid death spiral,

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/ambroseevans_pritchard/10957292/Fossil-industry-is-the-subprime-danger-of-this-cycle.html

# ? Jul 10, 2014 08:16

Divorced And Curious: Jan 23, 2009; democracy depends on sausage sizzles

Hypation posted:

"Grid Death Spiral"

August thread title/Cartoon's obituary found.

# ? Jul 10, 2014 08:18

You Am I: May 20, 2001; Me @ your poasting

Loving the defeat in the Senate for the Liberals. I wonder what poo poo the Murdoch papers will come out with tomorrow?

"Evil Clive hurts poor widdle Abbott, how dare he!"

# ? Jul 10, 2014 08:24

Gough Suppressant: Nov 14, 2008

hooman posted:

HAHAHAHAHA

Liberals forced to table their lovely FOFA bill.

Watching them rapidly lose control of the senate is fills me with sadistic glee.

This dysfunctional and chaotic government has got to go

# ? Jul 10, 2014 08:30

Zenithe: Feb 25, 2013; _{Ask not to whom the Anidavatar belongs; it belongs to thee.}

Les Affaires posted:

Yes, solar and wind have been smashing through the floor in terms of cost per kilowatt hour. There was a report on Four Coroners about it this week (last week?).

Link below:

http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/stories/2014/07/07/4038488.htm

Thanks, that was awesome.

# ? Jul 10, 2014 08:36

Eediot Jedi: Dec 25, 2007; This is where I begin to speculate what being a
man of my word costs me

You Am I posted:

Loving the defeat in the Senate for the Liberals. I wonder what poo poo the Murdoch papers will come out with tomorrow?

"Evil Clive hurts poor widdle Abbott, how dare he!"

WE WILL NOT BE BLACKMAILED

Abbott Stands Firm On Palmer, Refugees

# ? Jul 10, 2014 08:53

Eediot Jedi: Dec 25, 2007; This is where I begin to speculate what being a
man of my word costs me

# ? Jul 10, 2014 09:06

Amoeba102: Jan 22, 2010

Clive Palmer: Chaos isn't a pit. Chaos is a ladder.

# ? Jul 10, 2014 09:07

fliptophead: Oct 2, 2006

My favourite part of this is Abbott.gov is demonstrating the actual dysfunctional and incompetent governing he accused the previous government of. And its fan-loving-tastic.

# ? Jul 10, 2014 09:35

ewe2: Jul 1, 2009

Rather odd little screed from Niki Savva from the death star:

quote:

Many a slip while cracking the whip

EVERY now and again, rumours percolate that Malcolm Turnbull is thinking of not running at the next election. Turnbull dismisses them with a joke. He will be there, he reckons, happy to serve until Wyatt Roy becomes prime minister. Very funny.

Except that what has been happening within or around the government is neither funny, nor productive, nor even grown-up. Turnbull�s deflection, denial, prediction � whatever � about his future, is not nearly as amusing when you consider that, the way things are going, the 24-year-old Roy could well be the next Liberal prime minister. LOL if you dare.

The government has a common purpose � to implement its policies as best it can and secure re-election � but love does not run deep or wide within its ranks. It is not tightly bound or bonded, its management skills remain sadly deficient and its communic�ations strategy is mystifying to say the least.

Carbon tax repeal will provide only temporary respite from the grind. As soon as one battle appears won, lest victory be sav�oured, another erupts on a different front. Clive Palmer rolls hand grenades like Maltesers down the corridor outside the Prime Minister�s office morning, noon and night, spending our money as if it were his own. Then the High Court, which killed off Julia Gillard�s Malaysia Solution, drops a potential depth charge.

The government�s ability to deal with issues, combined with how much of what it proposes it actually succeeds in getting passed by the Senate, will ultim�ately determine its fate.

As one of the more realistic participants puts it, it is futile to predict or bank on what will happen in the Senate, so the government has to take it one day at a time, one bill at a time, one vote at a time. Ricky Muir rammed it home yesterday by voting with Labor and the Greens to keep debate going on the carbon tax.

For good or ill, the new Senate looks more like Australia than any Senate has for decades, replete with all the diversity and dysfunction that implies, so it will need a lot of time, a lot of patience, and a lot of grovelling by the government to get anything done.

Speaking of dysfunctional, although it was not required, Turnbull�s quarantining from the appointments (theoretically made by the head of the Prime Minister�s Department, Ian Watt) of Neil Brown and Janet Albrecht�sen to the panel which recommends candidates for the ABC and SBS boards was more bad politics and revealed a lack of trust.

Regardless of the merits of the appointments, or the merits of the ABC, Turnbull does have a right as a senior cabinet minister with responsibility for communications to be consulted, as well as a right to be peeved when he is not, because he � like everybody else � knows that few decisions are made without the say-so of the Prime Minister�s chief of staff, Peta Credlin, and through her the Prime Minister.

Think Jimmy Carter as president deciding who can use the White House tennis courts and you get the picture.

The appointments have been cast as payback for Turnbull�s �honesty� about the problems besetting the government, along with his failure to tell anyone that he had, even if by accident, dined with Clive Palmer and the Treasury secretary Martin Parkinson.

Turnbull has been naughty, no doubt about it. Not naughty enough to be disciplined or sacked, but enough to remind everyone he is still there, not going anywhere, ready to serve in whatever capacity people desire. Unlike Sri Lankan boatpeople, he cannot be disappeared.

Along the way he oh-so-subtly concedes the other thing we all know, which few people inside the government are game to admit: that the government is up the creek without a GPS or paddle.

While his superiors and others play down the problems, Turnbull refuses to sing like the other budgies from the daily hymn sheet about how, despite the difficulties, everything is going according to plan, or will be back on track before negative perceptions get set in that bucket of cement Jacqui Lambie � who makes Clive Palmer appear rational � keeps hurling at the Prime Minister.

If we want to talk about payback though in this political guer�illa war, we have to go back a ways.

We could go to Turnbull�s loss of the leadership by a vote, the days he let loose in an unprecedented fashion against his colleagues for their desertion, or the day he voted against them and with Labor in the parliament on Kevin Rudd�s emissions trading scheme.

There are serving Liberals who will never forgive him for all that. Others, more pragmatically, including those instrumental in his demise, keep their options open. Liberals would ignore him, the most popular in their ranks by far, at their peril if Abbott was to fall or get pushed under a bus.

It�s also pertinent, if we talk about payback, to go back to just after the election last September when sources say Credlin refused to allow Turnbull to appoint the person he wanted as his chief of staff.

According to sources at that time, it turned into a screaming match which climaxed when Credlin (on his staff at the time) told Turnbull one of the reasons he lost the opposition leadership was because he ran a bad office. Those who saw Turnbull soon after reported that he was visibly shaken by the �conversation�.

Yesterday, Turnbull�s office did not deny that had occurred, saying only that the account of the conversation was not correct. They would not say which bits were not correct. Asked if Turnbull�s original choice of chief of staff was rejected by Credlin, the Prime Minister�s office gave a carefully worded response which did not quite answer the question: �The chief of staff proposed by the minister was approved by the government staff committee.�

A spokesman denied that there had been a vigorous exchange and directed questions about the Albrechtsen/Brown appointments to Watt.

Even in opposition, there were niggles about Abbott�s office. The sheer volume and complexity of the decisions that need to be taken daily, or even hourly, combined with an extremely hostile operating environment, guarantee that pressures will only intensify.

One senior MP, an old mate of Abbott�s, suggested privately that he needed someone who could manage issues.

That would be a good start.

It's a long bow, but what does this mean for Scott Morrison's leadership ambitions?!

# ? Jul 10, 2014 09:36

Doctor Spaceman: Jul 6, 2010; "Everyone's entitled to their point of view, but that's seriously a weird one."

Twitter is saying that the interview with Palmer on 730 might be fun.

# ? Jul 10, 2014 10:18

Murodese: Mar 6, 2007; Think you've got what it takes?
We're looking for fine Men & Women to help Protect the Australian Way of Life.

Become part of the Legend. Defence Jobs.

Man, the ALP tabling the FOFA amendments is loving god damned hilarious. There's no way the Liberals were going to table it after the CBA poo poo came out, they were hoping it'd quietly die down so they could introduce it later under the radar. Now they either have to defend it on the floor and look terrible, or vote against their own bill and look terrible.

A lot of the previous term "dysfunction" poo poo wasn't even dysfunctional, but this sure is. I don't think the Gillard government ever really got defeated in the senate in 6 years, did it?

# ? Jul 10, 2014 10:29

CrazyTolradi: Oct 2, 2011; It feels so good to be so bad.....at posting.

Murodese posted:

Man, the ALP tabling the FOFA amendments is loving god damned hilarious. There's no way the Liberals were going to table it after the CBA poo poo came out, they were hoping it'd quietly die down so they could introduce it later under the radar. Now they either have to defend it on the floor and look terrible, or vote against their own bill and look terrible.

A lot of the previous term "dysfunction" poo poo wasn't even dysfunctional, but this sure is. I don't think the Gillard government ever really got defeated in the senate in 6 years, did it?

In terms of passing legislation, the Gillard government was acutally one of the more successful governments in this regard.

# ? Jul 10, 2014 10:32

Les Affaires: Nov 15, 2004

Murodese posted:

Man, the ALP tabling the FOFA amendments is loving god damned hilarious. There's no way the Liberals were going to table it after the CBA poo poo came out, they were hoping it'd quietly die down so they could introduce it later under the radar. Now they either have to defend it on the floor and look terrible, or vote against their own bill and look terrible.

A lot of the previous term "dysfunction" poo poo wasn't even dysfunctional, but this sure is. I don't think the Gillard government ever really got defeated in the senate in 6 years, did it?

I've tried looking for this today, having no luck. Link?

# ? Jul 10, 2014 10:35

Nuclear Spy: Jun 10, 2008; feeling under?

CrazyTolradi posted:

In terms of passing legislation, the Gillard government was acutally one of the more successful governments in this regard.

Has Australia's hung Parliament been unworkable?

quote:

For all the noise and controversy, the 43rd Parliament can claim to be productive.
...
The big-ticket items like budgets, the carbon and mining taxes, plain packaging laws for cigarettes, paid parental leave and the Murray Darling Basin Plan all passed.

In fact, by the end of last year, 432 bills had become law.

By comparison, the Rudd Government passed just 409 bills in its entire first term, while the Howard Government passed 549 bills from 2004 to 2007 - and it controlled both chambers for much of that time.

# ? Jul 10, 2014 10:35

Murodese: Mar 6, 2007; Think you've got what it takes?
We're looking for fine Men & Women to help Protect the Australian Way of Life.

Become part of the Legend. Defence Jobs.

Les Affaires posted:

I've tried looking for this today, having no luck. Link?

http://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_Business/Chamber_documents/Dynamic_Red

333 � Senator Dastyari � Order for the production of documents � Corporations Amendment (Streamlining Future of Financial Advice) Regulation 2014
Senate divided: ayes - 33; noes - 29 AGREED TO

e; the actual documents aren't up yet, nor is the order to produce document in the senate DB - that's how much of a surprise it was

Murodese fucked around with this message at 10:43 on Jul 10, 2014

# ? Jul 10, 2014 10:37

Doctor Spaceman: Jul 6, 2010; "Everyone's entitled to their point of view, but that's seriously a weird one."

Murodese posted:

A lot of the previous term "dysfunction" poo poo wasn't even dysfunctional, but this sure is. I don't think the Gillard government ever really got defeated in the senate in 6 years, did it?

The first emissions trading scheme got voted down, if you want an obvious example.

Generally governments have had to work with a minor party and / or 1-2 independents; the Greens + Xenophon + FF during Labor's first term is a pretty representative example. The current situation makes that look like a picnic.

# ? Jul 10, 2014 10:43

Vahtooch: Sep 18, 2009; What is this [S T A N D] going to do? Once its crossed through the barrier, what's it going to do? When it comes in here, and reads my [P O S T S], what's it going to do to me?

This is why I like Palmer. Just being crazy enough to walk off set in stuff like the 7;30 report.

# ? Jul 10, 2014 10:47

open24hours: Jan 7, 2001

Does walking out make him look more or less guilty? What does this mean for Jacqui Lambie's leadership ambitions?

# ? Jul 10, 2014 10:48

Gough Suppressant: Nov 14, 2008

Vahtooch posted:

This is why I like Palmer. Just being crazy enough to walk off set in stuff like the 7;30 report.

Wait, really?

# ? Jul 10, 2014 10:49

Doctor Spaceman: Jul 6, 2010; "Everyone's entitled to their point of view, but that's seriously a weird one."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSC_A3m2BUc

# ? Jul 10, 2014 10:50

freebooter: Jul 7, 2009

What was that regarding? Who's he suing?

# ? Jul 10, 2014 10:58

Vahtooch: Sep 18, 2009; What is this [S T A N D] going to do? Once its crossed through the barrier, what's it going to do? When it comes in here, and reads my [P O S T S], what's it going to do to me?

open24hours posted:

Does walking out make him look more or less guilty? What does this mean for Jacqui Lambie's leadership ambitions?

I'm tempted to say less. Since if he was guilty he wouldn't even have answered anything. Then again Palmer is a certified crazy so who knows.

# ? Jul 10, 2014 11:00

Doctor Spaceman: Jul 6, 2010; "Everyone's entitled to their point of view, but that's seriously a weird one."

freebooter posted:

What was that regarding? Who's he suing?

This, apparently.

# ? Jul 10, 2014 11:00

PaletteSwappedNinja: Jun 3, 2008; One Nation, Under God.

He does this sort of thing all the time, doesn't he? I've heard more than one call-in radio interview with Clive where he's hung up the phone the moment the interviewee starts pursuing a line of questioning he didn't like.

# ? Jul 10, 2014 12:27

Flaky: Feb 14, 2011; Can't post for 3 years!

Hypation posted:

The need to provide a compensation package to limit the detrimental effects of regressive taxation kind of proves that carbon pricing is regressive. That compensation package is also outside the mechanism for setting or administering a carbon price. Carbon pricing per se is regressive. Its just that some people have chosen to impose the regressive tax while also separately and independently providing an offsetting adjustment.

The context of what I posted was also in response to someone being against a specific (regressive) component of a carbon tax and I pointed out that if you are against regressive taxes per se then you have to be against the carbon tax more broadly. I also pointed out that there is a (slow to respond and imperfect) mechanism for compensating people for fuel excise indexation so if you want compensation then there is something.

The lesson from this is that simply pointing at 'market solutions' and saying they are the most effective because capitalism is just as absurd as it sounds. We don't entrust the private sector with sharing anything else in a socially responsible manner, why would this be any different for the cost of lowering emissions?

# ? Jul 10, 2014 12:32

Paracausal: Sep 5, 2011; Oh yeah, baby. Frame your suffering as a masterpiece. Only one problem - no one's watching. It's boring, buddy, boring as death.

Ugh, I have a friend from a past job who was a cool dude but now he's posting 'JEWS NEWS' and 'SUPPORT ARE IDF' poo poo posts all over his facebook and I just wanna show him dead kids like if someone is throwing rocks at my house is burning their house to theground the right way to go and gently caress this planet basically.

# ? Jul 10, 2014 12:39

KennyTheFish: Jan 13, 2004

Hypation posted:

1. Taxation of carbon
2. Level of wages and welfare benefits

I'll bite.

In terms of overall policy why can we not consider together putting a tax on a current externality with a high hidden cost (carbon pollution) and using the revenue to offset taxation in other areas, such as tax free thresholds for low income earners.

Why must all tax measures stand and fall on their own, instead of as a part of broader tax policy.

# ? Jul 10, 2014 12:46

Gough Suppressant: Nov 14, 2008

TG-Chrono posted:

Ugh, I have a friend from a past job who was a cool dude but now he's posting 'JEWS NEWS' and 'SUPPORT ARE IDF' poo poo posts all over his facebook and I just wanna show him dead kids like if someone is throwing rocks at my house is burning their house to theground the right way to go and gently caress this planet basically.

The correct response to a kid from the next street over throwing rocks at your house is to level the whole street with artillery and then invite some of your relatives to build on top of the ashes.

# ? Jul 10, 2014 12:50

Nuclear Spy: Jun 10, 2008; feeling under?

Some things never change...

quote:

"It is our policy, without qualification, to retain Medicare . . . Not only does Medicare stay but so does bulk billing . . . They are the fundamentals, the underpinnings of the policy." - John Howard, Health Policy launch of "A Healthy Future", 12 February 1996

quote:

"I can guarantee we're not going to have $100,000 university degree courses." - John Howard, interview with Neil Mitchell on Radio 3AW, 15 October 1999

quote:

"We have no intention of introducing a (university) loans scheme with a real or indeed any other rate of interest." - John Howard, in Parliament, 18 October 1999

quote:

"Well, it means that we'll not have deregulated (university) fees. In other words, the Government will always maintain a control over what the level of the fee is."

and...

quote:

"No-one can guarantee bulk billing. No-one can guarantee bulk billing without conscripting the medical profession. Medicare has never been universal bulk billing-never . . ." - Tony Abbott, Minister for Health and Ageing, Meet the Press, 23 November 2003

# ? Jul 10, 2014 13:25

Skellybones: May 31, 2011; Fun Shoe

It's weird, I can't really remember much of Abbott when Howard was PM. I guess he wasn't as prominent then, so nobody really knew how weird he was.

# ? Jul 10, 2014 13:30

Nibbles!: Jun 26, 2008; TRUMP TRUMP TRUMP

make australia great again as well please

I only remembering him popping up when he canned that abortion drug.

# ? Jul 10, 2014 13:36

Nuclear Spy: Jun 10, 2008; feeling under?

Shadeoses posted:

It's weird, I can't really remember much of Abbott when Howard was PM. I guess he wasn't as prominent then, so nobody really knew how weird he was.

I didn't follow politics that much back then, but I remember him getting quite a lot of heat about the emergency contraceptive, then the termination drug, RU-486:

quote:

Mr Abbott wanted to ensure that (emergency contraceptive) Postinor-2 was "not just something that people go and take like they might take a vitamin tablet if they think they are getting sick".

The Australian Medical Association posted:

"The advice released by the Minister today is skewed to the risk in a specific situation, but the worst case scenario is not a fair way to present the reality of the risks and benefits of RU-486."

# ? Jul 10, 2014 13:39

Murodese: Mar 6, 2007; Think you've got what it takes?
We're looking for fine Men & Women to help Protect the Australian Way of Life.

Become part of the Legend. Defence Jobs.

Yeah, Abbott mostly came to the fore when the right to veto PBS approvals was removed from the Minister for Health's portfolio by Howard purely because he was being a non-secular shithead over RU486.

If you watch the Chasers' original series, he comes up pretty often.

# ? Jul 10, 2014 13:46

BogDew: Jun 14, 2006; E:\FILES>quickfli clown.fli

Shadeoses posted:

It's weird, I can't really remember much of Abbott when Howard was PM. I guess he wasn't as prominent then, so nobody really knew how weird he was.

Howard recommended him to Hewson as a press sectary, Abbott was then writing for The Bulletin. After receiving a glowing endorsement from Howard scored the shoe-in-seat of Warringah and was given minor minister roles only really making headlines when he was the Minister for Health when he tried to block RU486 and snubbed Bernie Banton.

David Marr's essay pretty much paints his early political career as a miserable existence after Howard shitcanned him, groveling in a back office doing secretarial duties. It was only from the post-Howard slump in the party that he emerged as leader, one source is quoted to effect of saying "my god, what have we done".

# ? Jul 10, 2014 13:53

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# ? Jun 10, 2024 06:16

Gough Suppressant: Nov 14, 2008

He also popped up to defame mesamphylioma sufferers on behalf of James Hardy.

# ? Jul 10, 2014 13:53

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > AusPol July: Less stable than the Something Awful forums

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