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Maybe I'm just too old-timey for that. I like having the freedom to fudge things for greater dramatic effect.
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Jul 8, 2014 19:52
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Dr Cheeto posted:I would certainly not implement it in a game without players physically at the table, and I was thinking about just doing it for the "skill challenge" bit where the terrorists have been neutralized one way or the other and the party is sitting in front of the bomb. Skill challenges seem freeform enough to me for this to work. Maybe the timer goes up or down depending on how many rounds they spent beating on the terrorists. Yeah, if you're doing it just for the skill challenge it would make more sense. I misunderstood and thought it included the combat beforehand.
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Jul 8, 2014 20:09
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When it comes to combat rolls I always mandate they all need to be open for everyone to see, myself (The GM) included. At an actual table this is just kind of natural, but online you can get chucklefucks who demand that they roll in private between only themselves and the GM and that bugs the piss out of me. As the GM though, anything non combat related that I, as the GM, roll gets rolled behind the trusty GM screen, mainly because I pay attention to every player's Passive skills and like to keep the semblance of surprise and mystery. So yeah, sometimes I fudge those rolls for narrative effect.
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Jul 8, 2014 21:10
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I've always rolled straight in the open. The only real fudging I've done is to say "yeah you killed the dude" when they have like a third of their HP left because we all know which way the wind is blowin'. HP really needs to be luckmeat. Aside from one or two minor, superficial cuts or whatever almost every fight in every kung fu movie or action scene ever, if boiled down to dice rolls, would go "miss, miss, miss, miss, miss, miss, hit: dead." If considering an alternative I'd like some system where rather than HP you have a kind of "flow of battle" system, whereby you have moves that will just kill a dude that barely ever work, and other moves that maneuver and feint and such, and building success with those makes you more likely to land killing/incapacitating blows. But I don't have the technical nous or an active group to develop it.
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Jul 8, 2014 21:51
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It's customary in our group for the DM to roll by keeping a d20 in a dice cup and just giving it a quick shake. It's pretty quick and it allows the DM to fudge rolls, but I don't. My contingency for when the party loses a fight is "you wake up captured by the enemy" and that's enough of an interesting story development that it should be enough of a safety net.
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Jul 8, 2014 21:59
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Prison Warden posted:If considering an alternative I'd like some system where rather than HP you have a kind of "flow of battle" system, whereby you have moves that will just kill a dude that barely ever work, and other moves that maneuver and feint and such, and building success with those makes you more likely to land killing/incapacitating blows. But I don't have the technical nous or an active group to develop it. This is exactly what I am doing for the July contest. Though I suck and never get anything done so v  v
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Jul 8, 2014 22:02
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I'm running my first RPG session tomorrow for the first time in... 2 years? Oh lord! I'm actually nervous about screwing up a rule or something despite how well I knew 4e. At least, until the whiskey kicks in. Can't wait to roll bones and
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Jul 11, 2014 04:46
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Hey. I wanna make an invoker who swings a sword around and throws holy bolts of holy fury while preaching. any tips on how to accomplish this?
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Jul 11, 2014 07:34
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Herr Tog posted:Hey. I wanna make an invoker who swings a sword around and throws holy bolts of holy fury while preaching. "Preserver" is a bit of a misnomer, too---you smite poo poo just fine by being you.
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Jul 11, 2014 07:49
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Thank you, I am now being ridiculous.
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Jul 11, 2014 09:06
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My Lovely Horse posted:It's customary in our group for the DM to roll by keeping a d20 in a dice cup and just giving it a quick shake. It's pretty quick and it allows the DM to fudge rolls, but I don't. My contingency for when the party loses a fight is "you wake up captured by the enemy" and that's enough of an interesting story development that it should be enough of a safety net. I always rolled dice out in the open when I was running. It's actually pretty tough to kill players by accident in 4e unless they do something really unwise; there were only two pc fatalities to combat in the whole game. One was a combination of an overstatted boss, the party being down one player, the team's healer turning traitor, and the downed character ordering his teammates to concentrate on killing the boss rather than stabilising him. The other involved the party's new healer winning initiative, running ahead without backup to grab the mcguffin, getting mobbed by enemies and cut down, and then falling to her death when the antagonist leapt out the window with her, expecting to be caught by flying minions that the party slaughtered before they could catch them.
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Jul 11, 2014 09:44
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I only got two player deaths in the short dungeon run I had. One, because the player got smooshed by a huge rolling boulder. He actually kicked off the boulder himself, but he lost balance, got dragged down with the boulder and ran/crawled unsuccessfully before becoming paste. But he actually rolled a 20 on his second death throw, so he just got up and dusted himself off.  The second one was the cleric. There was a room full of undead, all sticking together; the cleric prompty walked right among them, tanking the opportunity attacks, and unleashed a Turn Undead. He missed eight of nine enemies. The ninth one was a minion. Subsequently, the cleric got beaten down, as well as incinerated by two flaming skeletons at the same time, so that he continued burning (and being poisoned) while being unconscious. If we hadn't spontaneously introduced stop-drop-'n-roll, the cleric would've dropped to negative bloodied value that very same round. Half the team took opportunity attacks afterwards to feed him a healing potion and drag him away from the flaming skeletons. I look forward to abusing ongoing damage, fall damage and environment hazards to murder my players!
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Jul 11, 2014 10:18
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Prison Warden posted:I've always rolled straight in the open. The only real fudging I've done is to say "yeah you killed the dude" when they have like a third of their HP left because we all know which way the wind is blowin'. Did try my hand at developing something like that, except with Stamina as your sorta HP-Luckmeat & also attack resource, with only a few "real" hit points (Wounds). Basically you'd start out with lotsa stamina and very low odds (unless the skill difference was too large) to land a killing blow right of the bat. As both combatant grow tired, use up special moves (that drain stamina) the odds of getting a big rear end hit would grow. Sorta like escalation system built in. Then I started adding second winds and ways to both regain and regenerate stamina while in combat, so it would be a trade-off between going for the kill (at any stage) or trying to slowly win by a war of attrition. Based it on the SilCORE system with some personal modifications, because that uses more of a multiplier system, so a big hit can really be a big hit without having to roll too many dice. Basically keep the nasty "you could die at any attack" while also giving skilled and experienced dudes a rather big edge. Got rather detailed and fiddly though (adding all the constantly shifting modifiers until I needed a spreadsheet to automate things  ), never did figure out how to involve multiple combatants in sensible way (odds are that going up against more than 1 dude would be a death sentence, which is realistic I guess) and I never got around to finishing all the combat skills.e: Oh, and it did include a rock-paper-scissor stance dancing system too. Dude A uses a stance to boost his attack, but if he fails that allows dude B to counterattack using a stance that is strong against A's stance. Each stance would have some additional downsides and pluses that would allow for some tactical depth. Never got very far into that, but the idea was that if you failed to kill the other dude you'd try to shift him into using a stance that had some downside (like draining more stamina, leaving him open for a stronger counter-attack or somesuch). Basically the whole thing turned into a rather detailed tactical mano-a-mano combat simulator. Pimpmust fucked around with this message at 15:21 on Jul 11, 2014 |
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Jul 11, 2014 15:12
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In the DMG there are the rules for NPC creation for PHB classes. Is there anywhere I could find the rules for PHB 2 or swordmage NPC characters?
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Jul 11, 2014 17:37
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DMG 2 had them, iirc.
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Jul 11, 2014 17:39
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Do you know the page? I'm having difficulty finding them.
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Jul 11, 2014 17:45
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Chapter 1 psure. Also here's this: http://www.wizards.com/DnD/Article.aspx?x=dnd/4ex/20090821 Refers to pages in the 30's range so try there I guess. VVV Oh yes, templates are there. VVV Generic Octopus fucked around with this message at 17:52 on Jul 11, 2014 |
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Jul 11, 2014 17:49
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Jade Mage posted:Do you know the page? I'm having difficulty finding them. 131. It doesn't have any of the Eberron or PHB3 classes, because those don't exist.
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Jul 11, 2014 17:49
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Prison Warden posted:I've always rolled straight in the open. The only real fudging I've done is to say "yeah you killed the dude" when they have like a third of their HP left because we all know which way the wind is blowin'. Narratively, at least, it's right there with 4e, though -- a lot of my battles I say poo poo like "You swing at the bandit lord and closely miss him, dealing 5 damage" and such, until whatever it is hits bloodied status and they get a "you slash a wicked gash in the bandit's side" or whatever. If it's appropriate. Some monsters are just big meatbags that gotta get cut up for the whole fight.
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Jul 11, 2014 17:52
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Captain Walker posted:131. It doesn't have any of the Eberron or PHB3 classes, because those don't exist. Thanks a million.
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Jul 11, 2014 17:59
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Jade Mage posted:In the DMG there are the rules for NPC creation for PHB classes. Is there anywhere I could find the rules for PHB 2 or swordmage NPC characters? My advice is to take an existing monster and add appropriate thematic abilities using the real mm3 monster math.
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Jul 11, 2014 18:34
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Or just use the real Rule 0 of D&D 4e: Reskin everything. My last big boss fight had two level 5 elites. One was a leveled-down minotaur, the other was a beholder gauth with some damage types changed. Both were completely reskinned.Gort posted:It's incredible the number of times I've reskinned a dragon to something else.
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Jul 11, 2014 18:37
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dwarf74 posted:I would strongly advise you not to use these. You will end up with terrible monsters. I made a level 3 cleric to back up a dragon against some players at level one and the rogue immediately one-shot her Roctavian posted:Narratively, at least, it's right there with 4e, though -- a lot of my battles I say poo poo like "You swing at the bandit lord and closely miss him, dealing 5 damage" and such, until whatever it is hits bloodied status and they get a "you slash a wicked gash in the bandit's side" or whatever. If it's appropriate. Some monsters are just big meatbags that gotta get cut up for the whole fight. I agree but it's always rubbed a few people I know the wrong way a little that you can be hit by an attack roll and that means your character doesn't actually get hit but they do lose health and such. Part of the reason I'd like a character to accrue "advantage" rather than something like losing stamina in my theoretical system is that I think it wouldn't matter how many dudes you fight. In true heroic epic or Kung full style your Ninja Doctor can just inverse law his way through a squad of useless tools and then kill the boss man. Rohan Kishibe fucked around with this message at 21:32 on Jul 11, 2014 |
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Jul 11, 2014 21:30
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Prison Warden posted:I made a level 3 cleric to back up a dragon against some players at level one and the rogue immediately one-shot her I always thought a decent HP-replacement would be "balance". You take hits, you lose balance. You run out of balance, the next hit takes you out and is the only one considered to actually be capable of doing physical harm to you. It'd be cool to let people trade in their actions-per-turn to get balance back. "Plant feet" - don't move, gain balance back. "Catch breath" - lose your minor, gain a bit of balance back. "Disengage" - lose your standard, gain a lot of balance back. I prefer having characters be responsible for their own defense rather than having a guy watching everyone's HP bars the whole time.
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Jul 11, 2014 22:10
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From my understanding, this is basically how combat in FATE systems work -- you joust back and forth invoking Traits and accruing bonuses until you have enough modifiers to land a killing blow with a huge margin-of-success.
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Jul 11, 2014 22:16
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Poison Mushroom posted:Or just use the real Rule 0 of D&D 4e: Reskin everything. My last big boss fight had two level 5 elites. One was a leveled-down minotaur, the other was a beholder gauth with some damage types changed. Both were completely reskinned. Any thing you guys know if that is a standard monster that could be reskinned to be a level 6-8 good-guy Diabolist? The only one I have is the warforged resounder. I'd prefer he not be elite, but I could handle one if necessary.
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Jul 12, 2014 14:45
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RESKIN EVERYTHING. Pick a standard monster of the right level that you think would be fun, and reskin it.
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Jul 12, 2014 15:20
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Jade Mage posted:Any thing you guys know if that is a standard monster that could be reskinned to be a level 6-8 good-guy Diabolist? The only one I have is the warforged resounder. I'd prefer he not be elite, but I could handle one if necessary. What about eldarin twilight incanter (monster vault p115) gnome illusionist (monster vault p149) gnome entropist (monester vault p 151) the warforged resounder is MM2, so it still has the 'bad' monster math
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Jul 12, 2014 15:37
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So, I may be involved in a 4e game for the first time since release (seriously, last time I finished a dungeon was Keep on the Shadowfell) and holy poo poo, I have no idea what I'm doing. I kind of want to run a Warlock, but have heard that mechanically, they're not very good? Should I just swap over to Sorcerer, or can I make Warlocks not suck somehow? I like the Star Pact but I'm not under any illusions about it being anything but a bad idea.
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Jul 12, 2014 18:50
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Warlocks are more complex than sorcerers because they get a lot of fiddly round-to-round effects to toss around. Sorcerers are among the easiest characters to run. Are you using the character builder?
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Jul 12, 2014 18:54
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Bikindok posted:So, I may be involved in a 4e game for the first time since release (seriously, last time I finished a dungeon was Keep on the Shadowfell) and holy poo poo, I have no idea what I'm doing. I kind of want to run a Warlock, but have heard that mechanically, they're not very good? Should I just swap over to Sorcerer, or can I make Warlocks not suck somehow? I like the Star Pact but I'm not under any illusions about it being anything but a bad idea. Warlocks are fine and I'm not sure why anyone would tell you otherwise. They're more complicated than Sorcerers but not even remotely weaker. EDIT: Also Star Pact has the best Pact boon and one of the best paragon paths fatherdog fucked around with this message at 19:08 on Jul 12, 2014 |
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Jul 12, 2014 19:05
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I'm not currently using the character builder. I'm just using the books and doing it manually, but I can probably use it if it's important. The Pact Boon seemed neat but kind of limited, is there a trick to it or something? Assuming I did go Starlock, is it worth investing in both Con and Cha, or should I just focus one? I'm pretty sure I heard someone say that the Star At-Will and Paragon Path had been Errata'd to work with either Ability, so I wondered if I needed both. Also, any mandatory or near-mandatory feats for Warlocks in general?
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Jul 12, 2014 19:43
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Bikindok posted:I'm not currently using the character builder. I'm just using the books and doing it manually, but I can probably use it if it's important. Holy poo poo the char builder is so important, get it. If your DM won't pay for it he's a chump. The Star Pact usually wants to concentrate on CON or CHA, not both, and have INT secondary to get those sweet control effects on your powers. CHA is more generally useful over your career, because there are more powers to pick from, while CON powers are more damaging (including the doom laser at level 29). And what are you talking about with the Pact Boon? +1 attack rolls is stupid good, especially because it stacks if you trigger it multiple times. Pick up Improved Fate of the Void and it's +2.
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Jul 12, 2014 19:47
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thespaceinvader posted:RESKIN EVERYTHING.  
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Jul 12, 2014 20:30
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Bikindok posted:So, I may be involved in a 4e game for the first time since release (seriously, last time I finished a dungeon was Keep on the Shadowfell) and holy poo poo, I have no idea what I'm doing. I kind of want to run a Warlock, but have heard that mechanically, they're not very good? Should I just swap over to Sorcerer, or can I make Warlocks not suck somehow? I like the Star Pact but I'm not under any illusions about it being anything but a bad idea. First, if you aren't using the Character Builder, you need the errata'd version. You probably also want to trade away your Eldritch Blast for Eldritch Strike. Second, Warlocks are great for making the DM cry when they want to use solos. They are somewhere between mediocre and really obnoxious when played well the rest of the time - but they take a lot more work than most classes to be tactically effective.
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Jul 12, 2014 22:19
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Like many other classes, you can also stack them to ridiculous damage in Epic. Warlocks, basically, are weaker than most strikers with much stronger control. Their principal problem is a lack of multi-attacks compounded by the fact that a LOT of their damage boosts are based on Curse which is only 1/round. Nonetheless, they are effective. Very thoguh to build though. Sorcs are much more straightforward.
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Jul 12, 2014 23:00
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thespaceinvader posted:Like many other classes, you can also stack them to ridiculous damage in Epic. They have access to enough zones to make up for the lack of multi-attacks imo, but you do have to be wise in your power selection.
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Jul 12, 2014 23:34
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Okay - I've got another question for y'all! Not that I want the thread to craft my campaign for me, you've just been very helpful so far.  Anyway: my question is about high-level NPCs! More specificially, the Big Bad Dude of the campaign. The idea is that he's a ruthless mercenary who has somehow gotten the favor of an otherworldy force. He is utterly loyal, but extremely pragmatic as well. Basically, imagine Dirty Harry on the side of an extra-dimensional hateful being. I wanted him to be an unstoppable melee fighter who is constantly charging people, shrugging off attacks while barely reacting to them; someone who can at best be delayed, but never stopped. So, a tank-y juggernaut as well. The special powers granted by the entity are only meant to augment his attacks - he's still supposed to charge fools and crush mountains, not suddenly spew fireballs or anything. I was thinking of using a Barbarian level 20; from looking over that class, they seem to be very charge-happy and tanky as gently caress. Any good ideas on what to give the guy? And what do you think would be good powers granted by the entity? I was thinking some kind of regeneration, and perhaps a supernatural increase in size when bloodied. Ideally, I want to reflect somehow that, when fully powered up, this guy's attacks are so powerful they literally warp reality; maybe he could create little zones with his strikes that cause damage? I'll probably steal some ability from another star-themed being... So, basically, I hope someone has good advice on building a charge-happy tank with some pragmatic tricks and supernatural support on his side. The players are supposed to fight him for real at level 20, but I'm planning for multiple run-ins before that; he won't be fully powered up then, and the players should have plenty ways of slowing the dude down. Any ideas for the build?
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Jul 13, 2014 11:47
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DO NOT USE PCS AS MONSTERS. The maths are VERY different for PCs as for monsters. ONe of the DMGs has a guide for how to add PC templates to monsters. PCs as monsters are the very definition of rocket tag. But also, do you expect this guy to be a returning villain? If you expect that and you expect him to be in combat with the PCs, plan for him to die, because they will find a way to kill him.
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Jul 13, 2014 12:08
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Torquemadras posted:Okay - I've got another question for y'all! Not that I want the thread to craft my campaign for me, you've just been very helpful so far. thespaceinvader posted:RESKIN EVERYTHING.
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Jul 13, 2014 12:08
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