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To Battle posted:Also this guy said he takes x rays now. What the gently caress would he need an x ray machine for. Charging you money, of course. Ogmius815 fucked around with this message at 22:17 on Jul 11, 2014 |
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Jul 11, 2014 21:29
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I mentioned this earlier in the thread or the facebook morons thread however - We had a scare in Seattle recently due to someone walking around all our tourist areas with active measles. Crazy chiropractors came out of the woodwork and were being super vocal anti vaccine on the news facebook page. This one guy was like "well i'm a doctor so i'm an authority on this" my next reply was literally "lol you say you're a chiropractor on your FB public page" and I was so pleased as punch when this became the laughing stock of the whole conversation. I felt like a serious internet winner for a half a second and he got all defensive about how you can treat so much with chiropractory poo poo. It made me really pleased to see that most people reading understood that chiro's are mostly jokes.
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Jul 11, 2014 21:30
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Yea you can totally treat your baby's annoying crying with chiropractic techniques.
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Jul 11, 2014 21:42
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God bless whomever gave Ogmius his new avatar.  Adding to the Chiro chat, I went to one purely out of desperation. I was suffering from a headache that had lasted for nigh 3 years at that point. I was borderline suicidal. The medication I was on to take the edge off of it was *really* strong and there was a chance at any loving time it could just go rogue on me and do something nasty to my brain. I thought, and still believe that 90% of them are quacks who either honestly believe the poo poo they're shoveling, or are just the biggest band of scam artists imaginable. But to be entirely blunt, I didn't have much to loving lose at that point. The one I went to was at least somewhat upfront with me. He didn't say anything about sublaxion or whatever the gently caress it is. He took an X-ray of my head, the first person to suggest doing that for the *massive* headache I had. He claimed that I had a small deviation in my spine from a previous injury. This headache had plagued me for 3 years. I'd been on pain killers, even a new non-opium based painkiller that was supposedly much harder to get addicted to. Still got addicted to it. That loving sucked. In 2 weeks, my head stopped hurting. This man gave me my life back. It may have been bullshit, it may have been placebo. I still don't recommend going to chiropractors, but this one time one sort of saved my life. I await everyone telling me I'm an idiot with bated breath. 
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Jul 11, 2014 21:57
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E-Tank posted:God bless whomever gave Ogmius his new avatar. You're not an idiot, neck injuries can easily cause headaches. I had recurring migraines for years until I went to a physical therapist who specialized in massage and after he treated my neck, now I haven't had a headache in months (the neck massages also felt phenomenal). It's A Good Thing that he caught that and helped you out. However, many chiros rely on pseudoscientific mumbo jumbo and they aren't doctors even if they are good at massage therapy, and can in many cases help out people with musculoskeletal problems.
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Jul 11, 2014 22:02
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E-Tank posted:
Given your situation I actually do understand and that you tried to do it safely. I definitely know what it's like to feel like regular medical science has failed to figure out what the gently caress is going on and looking to more granola poo poo. I've had stabbing pain in my lower right abdomen for almost a year. I've been to a gyno, my GP, a regular ER doctor - i've had ultrasounds and CTs. I tried different pain killers. My GP and I chalked it up to maybe ovarian cysts for about 6 months until I went to the ER after I was in so much pain I couldn't talk and they did the CT and showed nothing. Ovaries looked perfect. Back to square one. I'm currently doing an elimination diet - why the gently caress not I guess? Can't be any worse than I am now. It's stupid and simple but a few weeks into it and it looks like I developed lactose intolerance.
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Jul 11, 2014 22:02
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Tigntink posted:Given your situation I actually do understand and that you tried to do it safely. I definitely know what it's like to feel like regular medical science has failed to figure out what the gently caress is going on and looking to more granola poo poo. I've had stabbing pain in my lower right abdomen for almost a year. I've been to a gyno, my GP, a regular ER doctor - i've had ultrasounds and CTs. I tried different pain killers. My GP and I chalked it up to maybe ovarian cysts for about 6 months until I went to the ER after I was in so much pain I couldn't talk and they did the CT and showed nothing. Ovaries looked perfect. Back to square one. I thought an elimination diet was standard procedure for detecting food intolerance. 
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Jul 11, 2014 22:06
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To Battle posted:Yeah I figured as much, to be honest I had no idea you could get a doctorate in chiropractic, a DC. I just though it was some dude that can help relieve back pain like a massage therapist like you said above. Though to be honest I'm not surprised with all the new age nonsense. It might help with back and neck injuries, but there really isn't much scientific evidence to support it, and in any case the founder of chiropracty was a spiritualist and ex-magnetic healer who believed that literally all diseases in existence were caused by misaligned bones in the back and mystical bullshit, and many modern chiropractors still retain some aspects of his beliefs.
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Jul 11, 2014 22:21
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Main Paineframe posted:It might help with back and neck injuries, but there really isn't much scientific evidence to support it, and in any case the founder of chiropracty was a spiritualist and ex-magnetic healer who believed that literally all diseases in existence were caused by misaligned bones in the back and mystical bullshit, and many modern chiropractors still retain some aspects of his beliefs. Haha wow I must have dropped off the radar for a while since it has been a long time going to a chiropractor. I had no idea they were so "anti vaccine" though, I never seen anything like it. I mean of all things to pick in medicine, this guy picks the actually thing that prevents disease. Haha I'm dying right now, I had no idea about this. So if they guy gets bit by a bat or something, will he not get a shot. Are chiropractors Klingons, they would rather die before dishonor. Where do they draw the line?
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Jul 11, 2014 23:11
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Main Paineframe posted:Chiropracty is a bullshit pseudoscience alternative medicine, basically the modern Western equivalent of acupuncture, so it shouldn't really be surprising that over one-third of all chiropractors are anti-vaxxers. As far as I know acupuncture for what it's worth has a better reputation than chiropractors.
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Jul 11, 2014 23:24
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OneThousandMonkeys posted:As far as I know acupuncture for what it's worth has a better reputation than chiropractors. I would imagine this is just because the risk of serious injury from acupuncture is very low (as opposed to chiropractic), even if it's been shown to not perform any better than placebo.
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Jul 11, 2014 23:34
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Ytlaya posted:I would imagine this is just because the risk of serious injury from acupuncture is very low (as opposed to chiropractic), even if it's been shown to not perform any better than placebo. Other than the fact that any acupuncturist who doesn't properly sterilize their needles can end up jamming infectious material right up in your skin, of course.
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Jul 11, 2014 23:36
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Absurd Alhazred posted:I thought an elimination diet was standard procedure for detecting food intolerance. Not one single doctor mentioned it or suggested it despite the fact that i've gained about 3 new serious allergies in the last 4 years so I'm going about it on my own. This is from 2 major highly rated hospitals in the PNW. I suppose it might be standard somewhere but oddly no one had mentioned it.
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Jul 11, 2014 23:38
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OneThousandMonkeys posted:As far as I know acupuncture for what it's worth has a better reputation than chiropractors. I haven't heard of any acupuncturists almost killing any babies within the last year, but in my personal experience more people will dismiss acupuncture because it doesn't try to pass itself off as scientific medicine the way chiropractics (chiropractic? chiropracty?) often does. Neodymium fucked around with this message at 23:52 on Jul 11, 2014 |
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Jul 11, 2014 23:47
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Tigntink posted:Not one single doctor mentioned it or suggested it despite the fact that i've gained about 3 new serious allergies in the last 4 years so I'm going about it on my own. This is from 2 major highly rated hospitals in the PNW. I suppose it might be standard somewhere but oddly no one had mentioned it. Are you sure you actually gained them just now instead of already having them for a long time?
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Jul 11, 2014 23:49
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Nintendo Kid posted:Other than the fact that any acupuncturist who doesn't properly sterilize their needles can end up jamming infectious material right up in your skin, of course. ...good point.
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Jul 12, 2014 01:22
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Ytlaya posted:I would imagine this is just because the risk of serious injury from acupuncture is very low (as opposed to chiropractic), even if it's been shown to not perform any better than placebo. I was desperate, but not desperate enough to visit an acupuncturist. When our bodies evolve to needing a needle shoved into our skin and nerves in order to heal, we need to stop, turn civilization off, and go back to the primordial ooze to think about where we went wrong.
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Jul 12, 2014 01:25
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http://youtu.be/EhTO2D1ccJ4 Some good stuff right here.
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Jul 12, 2014 03:03
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To Battle posted:Yeah I figured as much, to be honest I had no idea you could get a doctorate in chiropractic, a DC. I just though it was some dude that can help relieve back pain like a massage therapist like you said above. Though to be honest I'm not surprised with all the new age nonsense. Job training. It's likely the first time he's ever gotten the opportunity to study the spine in his entire career.
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Jul 12, 2014 03:12
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Hopefully the guy can tell the difference between a human and dog spine.
PhazonLink fucked around with this message at 05:32 on Jul 12, 2014 |
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Jul 12, 2014 05:29
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Ogmius815 posted:But it's science. Why are you guys so dumb at science? Surely only someone who doesn't know or else hates science would disagree with me. Anti-scientific viewpoints like the ones expressed in this post are what I'd expect from someone who's also anti-vaccine. Are you anti-vaccine? It'd be interesting to actually have one to talk to in the thread, since everyone in this thread seems to be pro-vaccine, basically
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Jul 12, 2014 09:53
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PhazonLink posted:Hopefully the guy can tell the difference between a human and dog spine. That was a great thread.
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Jul 12, 2014 10:00
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Babe Magnet posted:That was a great thread. Thread is here, hilarity around page 7.
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Jul 12, 2014 10:03
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E-Tank posted:I was desperate, but not desperate enough to visit an acupuncturist. When our bodies evolve to needing a needle shoved into our skin and nerves in order to heal, we need to stop, turn civilization off, and go back to the primordial ooze to think about where we went wrong. Is the same true if we need surgery or chemotherapy in order to heal? I'm not arguing that acupuncture is valid, but you seem to be arguing that procedures of any kind are unnecessary.
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Jul 12, 2014 10:03
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Of course I'm not an anti-vaccine crazy. I bet you'd like it if I was though. Sorry to disappoint. Tell me, is your position really that scientific research is always justified even if no clear purpose can be discerned and there is a chance of great harm just because? Don't reply "but there is a purpose the CDC says so!" because that's been dealt with. Don't rehash "but gosh guys what if for some unfathomable reason we NEED live Variola samples, like to kill the Martians" because it's a loving retarded argument. Ogmius815 fucked around with this message at 10:24 on Jul 12, 2014 |
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Jul 12, 2014 10:14
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How do parents who willfully not vaccinate their kid not get charged with, at least, reckless endangerment if a kid dies from an easily vaccinated disease? I don't feel strongly about most "debatable" things, but this falls in that category even though if you know even the slightest bit about medicine this poo poo isn't debatable at all. gently caress these people. pro starcraft loser fucked around with this message at 10:53 on Jul 12, 2014 |
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Jul 12, 2014 10:41
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Ogmius815 posted:Of course I'm not an anti-vaccine crazy. I bet you'd like it if I was though. Sorry to disappoint. Oh, how did you guess? Which part of my post tipped you off, was it the part where I explicitly stated that I'd like it if you were an actual anti-vaxxer? You're a sharp one, no one can deny you that But since we're on the topic, and since you distrust scientists, why do you trust vaccine data? Or is it that you don't mistrust scientists, just these scientists because they disagree with your viewpoints? And if that's the case, isn't that exactly the sort of reasoning used by anti-vaxxers? quote:Tell me, is your position really that scientific research is always justified even if no clear purpose can be discerned I am in support of scientific research even when the purpose is vague. "Let's study smallpox" is a good enough reason to study smallpox. "Let's keep some smallpox in a safe place so that it can be studied in the future, when we have better tools" is a good enough reason to keep it around. Science doesn't work like it does in Civilization, where you tell your scientists to go figure out how to make computers. Invaluable scientific discoveries most often start with simple questions that lack purpose, such as "how does smallpox behave when I do X to it?" In addition to this, a scientific study with a specific purpose that requires smallpox could come along in the future. Eliminating future potential avenues of research just so that we can eliminate some well-secured virus samples in case of an incredibly improbable outbreak is a pretty stupid idea simply because we don't know what kind of mind-blowing advances that their continued existence could lead to. And besides, it's significantly more likely that nature will create a new disease as bad as smallpox or worse than it is that we'll have an outbreak from these samples. If you're going to worry about improbable events like these then you may as well wear a full rubber suit at all times in case you get hit by lightning. quote:and there is a chance of great harm? When the chance of any harm being caused is essentially 0, then yes, absolutely. Especially when the "great harm" is greatly mitigated by the existence of a vaccine against that harm. quote:Don't reply "but there is a purpose the CDC says so!" because that's been dealt with. Okay, I didn't do that. But now I will. CDC scientists do believe that there is a purpose in keeping smallpox, and you never actually dealt with that point. And a bunch of WHO doctors believe that there is a purpose in keeping smallpox, too, and you never dealt with them, either. Saying "they're full of poo poo, here are some people at WHO who disagree" doesn't discredit any of those groups, it just shows that some people share your shortsighted and fear-fueled viewpoint. QuarkJets fucked around with this message at 12:24 on Jul 12, 2014 |
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Jul 12, 2014 12:22
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The argument over whether we should destroy the remaining known stockpiles of variola is pointless. The CDC has made it clear they won't be getting rid of their samples any time soon regardless of what the WHO decides on and it could be assumed Russian officials feel the same way. The only way things could be done is if both facilities were to decide on a single place to collect their samples, which is unlikely. As to whether these stockpiles should be destroyed isn't that straightforward. From what I've heard we still haven't finished sequencing the genomes of all of the strains in our 400(?) or so samples. Furthermore, research on variola treatment and the disease in general hasn't been completed yet. A lot of our old vaccines wouldn't be approved under current regulations because of their adverse side effects, and work on newer generation vaccines and anti virals is still being done. A popular sentiment is that we should finish research and data collection before we make the choice finish off variola, since it would be irreversible once done. Personally, I find the fear of a variola outbreak in the future to be irrational. It reinforces people's bias against disease research which I think is unfounded. Lab safety has advanced since the 1978 accident and the sooner people can move away from making virus research out as this sort of bogeyman the sooner public understanding of the field of virology can be improved. I'm sorry for continuing what is a really lovely derail but virology is one of my favorite subjects. On a lighter note, has anyone heard Sawbones recent episode on Vaccines? It's a great piece on the history of vaccines and addresses antivax sentiments really well. Article about variola research being done: http://www.plospathogens.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.ppat.1004108 Link to the Sawbones episode: http://www.maximumfun.org/sawbones/sawbones-vaccines Edit: Typo
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Jul 12, 2014 12:38
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Hate to say it, but you're arguing with someone who has sunk to the level of posing star trek memes in place of arguments, there is nothing of value to be found in arguing with someone like that. 
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Jul 12, 2014 12:43
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The autism is coming from INSIDE THE THREAD.
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Jul 12, 2014 13:41
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Sorry about your vaccine-triggered autisms, bro 
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Jul 12, 2014 14:38
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ITT people literally tell me that science doesn't need a conscience , then complain about  when I compare them to Dr. Frankenstein.Science isn't good just because, it's only good when it helps humanity. When research is really dangerous and no one can say how it helps humanity, right thinking people think twice. Ogmius815 fucked around with this message at 17:25 on Jul 12, 2014 |
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Jul 12, 2014 17:22
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You are completely loving stupid.
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Jul 12, 2014 17:31
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Burn all scientists at stake because a dude didn't understand a book he was forced to read by that loving oval office of an English teacher  in the 8th grade.
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Jul 12, 2014 17:32
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Marie Curie discovered while investigating radioactivity that it can kill you. Better destroy all radioactive material, that'll never be used for the benefit of mankind!
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Jul 12, 2014 17:33
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Ogmius815 posted:ITT people literally tell me that science doesn't need a conscience , then complain about Smallpox research helps humanity and isn't dangerous, hope this helps. 
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Jul 12, 2014 17:35
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You guys are idiots. I'm going to get again for this but this is the same kind of reasoning that lead to the creation of the hydrogen bomb. No doubt you people would probably support that too because  it lead to some useful technologies .
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Jul 12, 2014 17:38
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Just The Facts posted:How do parents who willfully not vaccinate their kid not get charged with, at least, reckless endangerment if a kid dies from an easily vaccinated disease? Because somehow absolutely stupid claims that "religious freedom" means getting to abuse someone else by forcing them to follow idiot anti-medicine beliefs are taken seriously in America. Even if we did pass a law requiring vaccines with no religious exception, some fundie is going to claim that vaccines cause abortions and the Supreme Court will be like "sounds good to me"
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Jul 12, 2014 17:39
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It did. It also served it purpose. VitalSigns posted:Because somehow absolutely stupid claims that "religious freedom" means getting to abuse someone else by forcing them to follow idiot anti-medicine beliefs are taken seriously in America. I thought the courts have been ruling against that thought.
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Jul 12, 2014 17:39
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E- Whoops.
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Jul 12, 2014 17:40
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