D&D NEXT: Infinite Posts of the Abyss

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treeboy: Nov 13, 2004; James T. Kirk was a great man, but that was another life.

to be fair that weird "ranged but melee but also ranged" rule could've been written by the intern.

Also how hard is it to simply say

GM: Gee, how are you using the weapon? are you throwing it or hacking?
Player: hacking...
GM: Then it's melee you dolt.
Player: I mean throwing!
GM: Then it's ranged.
Player: Can't it be both?
GM: No.

treeboy fucked around with this message at 22:03 on Jul 11, 2014

# ? Jul 11, 2014 22:01

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# ? May 14, 2024 12:32

Hubis: May 18, 2003; Boy, I wish we had one of those doomsday machines...

What if my gun is also a sword? :smug:

# ? Jul 11, 2014 22:17

DalaranJ: Apr 15, 2008; Yosuke will now die for you.

ritorix posted:

Oh yeah and my Cheat Sheet is updated to the Basic rules for anyone that is actually going to play 5e. 1 page with all the actions and conditions and stuff.

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B7n5bpadgZz4WmRIdE1HeVBaeFk/

Dash should probably read "Increases your movement by your speed." Which would make it slightly easier to understand what happens when a rogue Mario Kart: Double Dashes

I'm eagerly waiting you running Tyranny and reporting back, because the scuttlebutt is that Kobold Press adventures blow Wizards adventures out of the water.

# ? Jul 11, 2014 23:35

Underwhelmed: Mar 7, 2004; Nap Ghost

treeboy posted:

to be fair that weird "ranged but melee but also ranged" rule could've been written by the intern.

Also how hard is it to simply say

GM: Gee, how are you using the weapon? are you throwing it or hacking?
Player: hacking...
GM: Then it's melee you dolt.
Player: I mean throwing!
GM: Then it's ranged.
Player: Can't it be both?
GM: No.

Common sense? No! I must wring out and cheese every rule, no matter what its intention, so I can be the most powerful character by technicality possible.

Edit: I say this, because I have had players over the years try and stack bonuses that shouldn't be stackable, when the rules were ambiguous like this.

Underwhelmed fucked around with this message at 01:58 on Jul 12, 2014

# ? Jul 12, 2014 00:04

Xelkelvos: Dec 19, 2012

Underwhelmed posted:

Common sense? No! I must wring out and cheese every rule, no matter what its intention, so I can be the most powerful character by technicality possible.

Edit: I say this, because I have had players over the years try and stack bonuses that shouldn't be stackable, when the rules were ambiguous like this.

Especially with Rules Heavy systems like D&D where tugging on one frayed end leads to the whole system unwraveleing. Not that it isn't possible with Rules Light systems, but there's less expectation for it to be so rigid and exact. With something so rigid as D&D, it has to be written akin to MtG cards where every effect is clear and consistent, even if it may sound a bit wordy or unnatural so as to prevent turning tiny loopholes into great gaping anuses.

# ? Jul 12, 2014 06:02

P.d0t: Dec 27, 2007; I released my finger from the trigger, and then it was over...

So here's a thought.

Would it make any loving difference at all, in 5e, if you let casters pick any Spellcasting ability they want, from INT/WIS/CHA? It seems like it might only benefit Paladins and Bards; everyone else, it would just let you be good at whichever skillset you want from those three.

# ? Jul 12, 2014 07:07

MonsterEnvy: Feb 4, 2012; Shocked I tell you

P.d0t posted:

So here's a thought.

Would it make any loving difference at all, in 5e, if you let casters pick any Spellcasting ability they want, from INT/WIS/CHA? It seems like it might only benefit Paladins and Bards; everyone else, it would just let you be good at whichever skillset you want from those three.

Well it would completely change around their skills and saves. Generally it's flavor and the fact that pretty much everyone would pick Wisdom as out of the 3 it has the most saves applied to it.

# ? Jul 12, 2014 09:15

starkebn: May 18, 2004; "Oooh, got a little too serious. You okay there, little buddy?"

P.d0t posted:

So here's a thought.

Would it make any loving difference at all, in 5e, if you let casters pick any Spellcasting ability they want, from INT/WIS/CHA? It seems like it might only benefit Paladins and Bards; everyone else, it would just let you be good at whichever skillset you want from those three.

No

DTAS

# ? Jul 12, 2014 14:27

Piell: Sep 3, 2006; Grey Worm's Ken doll-like groin throbbed with the anticipatory pleasure that only a slightly warm and moist piece of lemoncake could offer; Young Orc

There are a lot more things that target Wis than Int or Cha though, so I'd expect to see pretty much every caster go Wis-based.

# ? Jul 12, 2014 14:38

Lazy_Liberal: Sep 17, 2005; These stones are precious

Anybody know if/when the wizard people are going to make a 5e online character builder?

# ? Jul 12, 2014 22:06

DalaranJ: Apr 15, 2008; Yosuke will now die for you.

Lazy_Liberal posted:

Anybody know if/when the wizard people are going to make a 5e online character builder?

If? Yes.
When? No.

http://www.codenamemorningstar.com/

# ? Jul 12, 2014 22:16

Cease to Hope: Dec 12, 2011

DalaranJ posted:

http://www.codenamemorningstar.com/

hail 5atan

# ? Jul 12, 2014 22:17

Fenarisk: Oct 27, 2005

DalaranJ posted:

If? Yes.
When? No.

http://www.codenamemorningstar.com/

Hahaha what the gently caress is this

# ? Jul 12, 2014 22:21

Countblanc: Apr 20, 2005; _{Help a hero out!}

"Rape its riches" in 2014

# ? Jul 12, 2014 22:41

Littlefinger: Oct 13, 2012

No, you see, it's totally okay, they just want to sound archaic so they are using it in the 'take by force' sense.
:goonsay:

# ? Jul 12, 2014 22:47

Rulebook Heavily: Sep 18, 2010; by FactsAreUseless

It's a quote from Gygax, specifically Keep on the Borderlands. And it's still stupidly tone-deaf to use that quote.

# ? Jul 12, 2014 22:59

Littlefinger: Oct 13, 2012

Dunno, somehow that just makes it worse.

Especially that they cut away a whole lot of follow-up text, essentially saying that this is what we want to showcase from all that purple prose.

# ? Jul 12, 2014 23:12

Crasical: Apr 22, 2014; GG!^*
^*GET GOOD

Countblanc posted:

"Rape its riches" in 2014

Some young boy years ago saw one of those fantasy illustrations of a dragon reclining on a huge pile of treasure an thought

:smaug:

: "Man, if I was a dragon, I would absolutely have my dick out, sticking down into that pile of gold coins. I bet that would be just incredible."

And then years later he became a game designer and now here we are.

^^^^ Oh it's a quote. Doesn't really make it BETTER but I suppose it's more understandable that they where trying to channel Word of Gygax than that someone on their team wrote that themselves.

Codename: Morningstar posted:

Here are just a few of a large list of features we�re developing:

A powerful and customizable character sheet
Fast, guided, character creation
Adventure management and tracking as a DM
Party communications between players
Simple rules search, bookmarking, and annotations
Online or offline play

[...]

However, the truth is, we need your help. In order for us to bring you the best companion to your game, we need your thoughts and suggestions. How do you play? If you had the chance to design a digital tool for fifth edition, what would you want?

Because asking the internet for design-focus worked so well before...

The bolded parts just confuse me, though. This almost looks like what I would be expecting from a virtual tabletop sort of program, but since 5e is supposed to be 'theater of the mind', it sort of sounds like the fuctionality outside of the character creation/management is a glorified instant messenger with dice-roller, turn-tracker, and likely a few assorted additional bells and whistles.

# ? Jul 12, 2014 23:14

Lazy_Liberal: Sep 17, 2005; These stones are precious

DalaranJ posted:

If? Yes.
When? No.

http://www.codenamemorningstar.com/

Thanks! That sure looks like something. :geno:

Also glad I'm not the only one who facepalmed at "rape its riches."

# ? Jul 12, 2014 23:22

zachol: Feb 13, 2009; Once per turn, you can Tribute 1 WATER monster you control (except this card) to Special Summon 1 WATER monster from your hand. The monster Special Summoned by this effect is destroyed if "Raging Eria" is removed from your side of the field.

I remember a stupid simple map thing from way back in pbps that was just like a grid and a bunch of simple stamps you could place and move around, sort of vector art (not relevant, but you could export the map as text to paste it in later, instead of fiddling with images, great for pbp).
I could imagine a vtt that had a really stripped down version of that, where the GM places simple stamps to represent enemies on a grid, and players move their PC stamps around, and if (and only if) it matters you can also lay down stamps for walls or terrain or cover, but otherwise you wouldn't have to have full-fledged "maps" just these abstract floating grid things, like if you were playing in person and scribbling on a spare sheet of paper.

Like I think some people go for totm out of "purity" while others just think making maps or whiteboards or whatever (or, for online vtts, map images and character and enemy tokens) is a hassle but are fine with putting down some positions for "tactically complex" combats.

# ? Jul 12, 2014 23:24

treeboy: Nov 13, 2004; James T. Kirk was a great man, but that was another life.

With the staggered release of, especially DM, 5e materials has anyone reverse engineered or otherwise started working on home brew monsters? I'm quickly running into the problem of no real diverse options when doing some preplanning.

# ? Jul 13, 2014 18:03

moths: Aug 25, 2004; I would also still appreciate some danger.

I'm sure someone at Necromancer games is busy homebrewing poo poo at his real job.

# ? Jul 13, 2014 18:05

Asymmetrikon: Oct 30, 2009; I believe you're a big dork!

treeboy posted:

reverse engineered

I think that would require there to be engineering in the first place. From what we've seen, all monster abilities seem to be assigned based on ~verisimilitude~.

# ? Jul 13, 2014 18:15

ProfessorCirno: Feb 17, 2011; The strongest! The smartest!
The rightest!

From what's been seen of the monsters so far, yeah, there's no actual "engineering" going on, just making up numbers for everything.

# ? Jul 13, 2014 18:41

IT BEGINS: Jan 15, 2009; I don't know how to make analogies

But guys there was a math team :airquote:

that obviously went over all the math in the game!

That said, after reading that Dead in Thay PbP I'm glad to see the system doesn't hold up too poorly in a full adventure-length game.

# ? Jul 13, 2014 18:49

treeboy: Nov 13, 2004; James T. Kirk was a great man, but that was another life.

i guess i assumed there's a *basic* design tying hp/dpr to CR/level

# ? Jul 13, 2014 19:34

MonsterEnvy: Feb 4, 2012; Shocked I tell you

We will learn in Auguest. So far the Starter set is all we have to go on for monsters.

# ? Jul 13, 2014 20:16

DalaranJ: Apr 15, 2008; Yosuke will now die for you.

treeboy posted:

i guess i assumed there's a *basic* design tying hp/dpr to CR/level

Jack the Lad made one in the Imp Zone thread for the last public playtest. Unfortunately, it's useless because it suggests that either a) there was no basic design like you're suggesting, or b) the monsters are categorized into roles even though the design team never explained what roles exist or even that there are roles. There isn't CR in the playtest, so it also suggests that level isn't tightly bound to CR.

My impression (since my starter set has not yet arrived) is that there won't be enough monsters in it to do a meaningful analysis.

DalaranJ fucked around with this message at 21:59 on Jul 13, 2014

# ? Jul 13, 2014 20:25

A Catastrophe: Jun 26, 2014

moths posted:

I'm sure someone at Necromancer games is busy homebrewing poo poo at his real job.

His real job is a Judge, last I checked.

# ? Jul 13, 2014 23:01

Jack the Lad: Jan 20, 2009; Feed the Pubs

DalaranJ posted:

Jack the Lad made one in the Imp Zone thread for the last public playtest. Unfortunately, it's useless because it suggests that either a) there was no basic design like you're suggesting, or b) the monsters are categorized into roles even though the design team never explained what roles exist or even that there are roles. There isn't CR in the playtest, so it also suggests that level isn't tightly bound to CR.

My impression (since my starter set has not yet arrived) is that there won't be enough monsters in it to do a meaningful analysis.

This is true - let me crosspost some of my stats and charts.

Here are the Starter Set monster stats:

Monster HP increased by an average of 119% for the levels we have information on between the playtest and the Starter Set:

Mearls has confirmed that this is intended and roughly correct:

Fighter DPR vs extrapolated Monster HP by CR:

Fighter DPR as a percentage of Monster HP, showing the playtest bestiary math for comparison:

The number of rounds it takes a Fighter to kill a monster of a given CR, with and without Action Surge:

A level 20 Fighter does just over 5 times more damage than a level 1 Fighter to equal CR enemies
A level 20 Monster has just under 29 times more HP than a level 1 Monster.

Jack the Lad fucked around with this message at 00:08 on Jul 14, 2014

# ? Jul 13, 2014 23:55

Ryuujin: Sep 26, 2007; Dragon God

And again more tweets:

quote:

@Brail4 : Magic missile on one target: (3d4+3) or (3d4+1) ?
@mikemearls : +3
@Brail4 : Sorry to bug you more but..EmpEvoc +int mod,if thats on one target,is that still +intmod or +intmodX3?
@mikemearls : empowered evocation applies only once

@Omgdestroyed : Burning Hands starts out at much higher damage (3d6) vs. Thunderwave (2d8). Again, intended?
@mikemearls : yes - thunder wave also pushes
@Omgdestroyed : Isn't it weird for Thunderwave to win over Burning Hands at later slots, while also having an arguably better additional effect
@mikemearls : it's not ideal, but works out in the key case of low level

@Omgdestroyed : Heal replaces Cure Wounds completely when gained: Ranged, maximum and much larger hp regained, cures afflictions etc. Intended?
@mikemearls : yes, but keep in mind it needs a higher minimum slot level

quote:

@Omgdestroyed : Also noticed that Thunderwave gains +d8/spell level, while Burning Hands only gains +d6/spell level. Thunderwave wins later on.
@mikemearls : yes, it's a little weird but judged to be easier than swapping die types at higher levels

@Omgdestroyed : Magic Missile, three missiles, three targets: Separate damage rolls, or once for all of them? What about a 2-1 missile split?
@mikemearls : one damage roll per target

@Gyor1 : will Planetouched be in the MM or DMG?
@mikemearls : don't believe either, but they are on the list for future

quote:

@Omgdestroyed : Thanks for the answer. Really impressed with Basic so far. Will the additional content for Basic release same day as PH does?
@mikemearls : yes

@blackwarder : where can we expect to get more flashed out interaction rules?
@mikemearls : dmg

@Abstruse : Now that the game's out, what's the official position on Actual Play podcasts?
@mikemearls : go for it!

quote:

@s_grindeland : Monsters w/ multiple melee reach get AoO from furthest? Ogre's large & has only 5' melee reach; AoO @ 5' reach?#DnD
@mikemearls : in general, use shortest

quote:

@Sword_of_Spirit : When planetouched come out sometime in the future, will we have the planescape/planetouched style tieflings?
@mikemearls : too early to say, but would not surprise me

@jrhyne1976 : Disengage no longer includes text that U move while disengaging. So does the action Disengage still allow movement?
@mikemearls : @Wizards_DnD when you disengage, you don't provoke for the rest of your turn. You use your normal movement

# ? Jul 14, 2014 04:39

Ferrinus: Jun 19, 2003; i'm finding this quite easy, i guess in part because i'm a fast type but also because i have a coherent mental model of the world

The burning hands/thunderwave thing is seriously unreal.

# ? Jul 14, 2014 04:52

Cassa: Jan 29, 2009

Doesn't burning hands get outclassed almost straight away?

# ? Jul 14, 2014 05:51

ritorix: Jul 22, 2007; Vancian Roulette

Cassa posted:

Doesn't burning hands get outclassed almost straight away?

At like level 3.

There would still be reasons to want a dex save spell vs the con save on thunder wave. Depends on the targets.

# ? Jul 14, 2014 05:56

drunkencarp: Feb 14, 2012

They're basically even at 2nd, but in a 3rd level slot Thunderwave does more damage, but it doesn't really pull away until you put in a 7th level slot.

# ? Jul 14, 2014 05:59

Big Bad Beetleborg: Apr 8, 2007; Things may come to those who wait...but only the things left by those who hustle.

Aside from Proj Morningstar, are there any DM toolsets that are either currently compatible, system-agnostic, or expected to be upgraded to be compatible with 5e?

# ? Jul 14, 2014 06:50

MonsterEnvy: Feb 4, 2012; Shocked I tell you

https://www.wizards.com/dnd/Article.aspx?x=dnd/4ll/20140714

Some news about the Monster Manuel. They wanted to cram as any monsters with as much info and art to do them all justice. However they found finding themselves needing to cut stuff to fit in the book. Their solution make the book bigger.

32 more pages have been added to the book and it's staying the same price.

# ? Jul 14, 2014 06:56

Pimpmust: Oct 1, 2008

Sounds more like a marketing gimmick. "We couldn't possibly forsee this, luckily our fixed page number wasn't actually fixed at all!"

# ? Jul 14, 2014 10:01

Elector_Nerdlingen: Sep 27, 2004

Pimpmust posted:

Sounds more like a marketing gimmick.

The monster manual was splitting at the seams, so the dauntless, fearless design team had no option other than to cram in 32 more pages of awesome all for the same low low price!

That doesn't sound like a marketing gimmick to me.

# ? Jul 14, 2014 10:22

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# ? May 14, 2024 12:32

moths: Aug 25, 2004; I would also still appreciate some danger.

So now it's the same MSRP and page count as the 2e premium Monstrous Manual reprint. Except without the thicker pages, nice binding, and gilt pages.

# ? Jul 14, 2014 11:35

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