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I prefer Bioshock 2 to Bioshock 1 because the silent protagonist was more of an "idiot" than the first, so everything made more sense. Literally, your entire objective is to save your daughter. Everything you do is a means to an end. Topple the power system? yeah, whatever. Murder interesting characters in order to get a plasmid that opens up a door for you to get to where she is? whatever, sure. You're a big daddy, your only job ever is to protect your little sister thing. That's it. Better than the player-character being an interactive camera that is forced to do stupid poo poo so the game developers can pretend they're artists.
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Jul 13, 2014 08:39
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Mario and Luigi Dream Team, you don't need to have ugly 3D graphics to replace the nice graphics of the earlier installments just because you're a 3DS.
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Jul 13, 2014 08:45
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To me, Bioshock 2 had two really glaring problems with its story. It felt like with Lamb they were trying to do some weird "the truth is in the middle" crap, like someone decided that since the first one made fun of Ayn Rand and libertarianism, then obviously the second one needed to try to attack communism as well. But it just didn't really seem to work. The other one is that all of the pre-release information seemed to imply that you were going to play this father whose daughter had been recently abducted and taken to rapture by "the" Big Sister, as in singular rather than having them all over the place. And instead we got a generic big daddy and a generic little sister, and the big sisters just being lovely repetitive boss fights.
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Jul 13, 2014 10:02
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Anatharon posted:Mario and Luigi Dream Team, you don't need to have ugly 3D graphics to replace the nice graphics of the earlier installments just because you're a 3DS. Yeah, those new graphics were quite disappointing. I enjoyed the thick-lined cartoony style of the previous games much more.
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Jul 13, 2014 10:14
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The only failure with Bioshock 2 is that they made the drill run out of fuel so goddamn fast. That's the only weapon I wanted to use.
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Jul 13, 2014 10:33
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WHAT A GOOD DOG posted:The only failure with Bioshock 2 is that they made the drill run out of fuel so goddamn fast. That's the only weapon I wanted to use. Oh man I forgot about that. What a lovely weapon. It ate through fuel and hardly held any at all.
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Jul 13, 2014 10:34
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Even with the drill specialist tonic?GIANT OUIJA BOARD posted:To me, Bioshock 2 had two really glaring problems with its story. It felt like with Lamb they were trying to do some weird "the truth is in the middle" crap, like someone decided that since the first one made fun of Ayn Rand and libertarianism, then obviously the second one needed to try to attack communism as well. But it just didn't really seem to work. The other one is that all of the pre-release information seemed to imply that you were going to play this father whose daughter had been recently abducted and taken to rapture by "the" Big Sister, as in singular rather than having them all over the place. And instead we got a generic big daddy and a generic little sister, and the big sisters just being lovely repetitive boss fights. I was initially turned off of Bioshock 2 because the entire premise was fan-fiction-y as hell. "Okay, this time though you get to play as a special secret prototype Big Daddy! And there's these Big Sisters which are like Big Daddies with tits! And the bad guy is this lady who was totally absolutely there the whole time!" (I may have also been further biased because I had imagined and hoped for a completely different premise where the game had co-op and you played as the two main characters from the ARG.) Once I actually played the game, the story still didn't really ever click with me, but the gameplay was solid. I even liked the Little Sister defense sections, which everyone else seemed to hate. Those parts absolutely sucked in the first game, but the second time around they actually gave you a substantially larger number of tools to defend a point with and it worked well enough as a core gameplay mechanic. BS2's hacking was okay, but I also didn't hate pipe dream in and of itself. Just the random unsolvable configurations it was possible to get and the fact that a full-screen mini-game mucked with the pace of the rest of the gameplay.
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Jul 13, 2014 11:11
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One little thing dragging Bioshock 2 down for me is the way that they completely abandoned the rad cobbled-together guns of the first game in favor of...a shotgun. And a machine gun.  Also how just in general playing as Subject Delta was indistinguishable from playing as Jack in the original Bioshock aside from the wrench being replaced by a drill, especially after one of the big complaints of the original game was how poorly the part where you play as a Big Daddy was handled. Also some of the levels in that game really were poo poo. Dionysis Park especially, there are parts where entire walls are just the same blurry grey copy-pasted texture. And the moral choice with Gil Alexander was pants-on-head stupid; honoring a man's request to be euthanized in the face of irreversible Super Alzheimers that also turns him into a crack-addicted blob monster is literally the same thing as murdering a little girl for money. I was a Bioshock 2 apologist when it came out and everybody hated it, but I think the recent 180 on the game has more to do with backlash against Ken Levine than anything else.
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Jul 13, 2014 11:33
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I liked Bioshock 2 better too. Especially Minerva's Den. While I enjoyed the Little Sister protecting parts of the game - they did start to get old after awhile. It became less tense and more of a chore than anything else. ...of SCIENCE! posted:And the moral choice with Gil Alexander was pants-on-head stupid; honoring a man's request to be euthanized in the face of irreversible Super Alzheimers that also turns him into a crack-addicted blob monster is literally the same thing as murdering a little girl for money. The way I saw it he was clearly not Gil Alexander anymore, and he was defenseless. scarycave has a new favorite as of 11:40 on Jul 13, 2014 |
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Jul 13, 2014 11:37
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I like Bioshock 2 a lot more because you get to play as a Little Sister . It was a breather segment but had some good presentation on how they view the world around them. I like Pipe Dream but can understand people not wanting to waste time in a minigame just to disable cameras or control drones. I thought the underwater parts were disappointing. They weren't that expansive and being underwater just meant that the draw distance for scenery gets massively reduced.
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Jul 13, 2014 12:32
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...of SCIENCE! posted:I was a Bioshock 2 apologist when it came out and everybody hated it, but I think the recent 180 on the game has more to do with backlash against Ken Levine than anything else. That's fine, Ken Levine is a dumb hacky hack.
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Jul 13, 2014 14:07
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Anatharon posted:Mario and Luigi Dream Team, you don't need to have ugly 3D graphics to replace the nice graphics of the earlier installments just because you're a 3DS. Its so disappointing when Bowser's Inside Story had amazing sprite quality after improvements in each game before, and then Dream Team just regresses to Mario and Luigi style. They don't even look like 3D models. They just look like ugly lineless sprites.
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Jul 13, 2014 16:26
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I loved Bioshock 2, but definitely think the way you were so agile and quick counted against it. If the game made a bigger deal out of you being a hulking machine cyborg human flesh monstrosity thing, rather than cobbling together quick bollocks about you being super special and fast, it would have been more satisfying I think. Design the combat around you being a Big Daddy (and having to compensate for the comparatively quicker and more agile enemies) rather than being a reskinned human.
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Jul 13, 2014 16:42
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I'm playing through classic PS2 platformer remasters on PS3 right now because I skipped that generation somehow. I really liked the first Jak & Daxter, played like an open-world Crash Bandicoot, great design. Now I am onto Jak 2. What the hell happened here? Why's everything grey? Why's the music so boring? What's with all this tone and serious (stupidly so) dialogue? Why is there a big city to navigate if there's nothing to do in it? Who came up with these stupid hoverboard things that move at snail speed and steer like an aircraft carrier? Guns are pretty cool and all but the cops spawn constantly. The game feels really rushed and dated. Sly trilogy is the opposite - the first one was weak, but the other two upped the ante.
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Jul 13, 2014 17:15
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Terminally Bored posted:I'm playing through classic PS2 platformer remasters on PS3 right now because I skipped that generation somehow. I really liked the first Jak & Daxter, played like an open-world Crash Bandicoot, great design. Now I am onto Jak 2. What the hell happened here? Why's everything grey? Why's the music so boring? What's with all this tone and serious (stupidly so) dialogue? Why is there a big city to navigate if there's nothing to do in it? Who came up with these stupid hoverboard things that move at snail speed and steer like an aircraft carrier? Guns are pretty cool and all but the cops spawn constantly. The game feels really rushed and dated. Sly trilogy is the opposite - the first one was weak, but the other two upped the ante. Jak & Daxter got hit hard by the post-GTA "MAKE IT GRITTY" wave. It doesn't help that the third game feels like it had half its script chopped out in production.
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Jul 13, 2014 17:20
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I really enjoyed Bioshock 2, the only issues I had with it is it was it's story was awkwardly crowbarred into the Bioshock 1 storyline. The actual gameplay and story (as a standalone) was better then BS1, just not as original. Overall I'd rate them about the same or very similar in quality. Bioshock Infinite was a gigantic turd though, I got it for free on PS+ and still felt it was a waste of my bandwidth. I'd have stopped playing 2 hours in if everyone on the internet hadn't said the ending was so game changing and amazing. It wasn't, it was a giant tedious, pretentious overlong snoozefest. I'm genuinely baffled why it got so well rated, beyond it being kinda pretty (and the first 30 minutes built a nice atmosphere) every single thing about the game was bad.
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Jul 13, 2014 17:22
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Oxxidation posted:Jak & Daxter got hit hard by the post-GTA "MAKE IT GRITTY" wave. It doesn't help that the third game feels like it had half its script chopped out in production. Wow, the next one is even worse you mean? Don't know if I should soldier on with 2 and finish the trilogy. Played the first Ratchet & Klank for only an hour or so but it was really good. And funny. Maybe I'll move onto that series.
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Jul 13, 2014 17:26
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Terminally Bored posted:Wow, the next one is even worse you mean? Don't know if I should soldier on with 2 and finish the trilogy. Played the first Ratchet & Klank for only an hour or so but it was really good. And funny. Maybe I'll move onto that series. Yes, do that. The only thing that changes from R&C 1 to the rest of the games is that Ratchet becomes less of a douche bag, and Insomniac repeatedly has this conversation: "We need to make the guns bigger. Bigger. I said bigger." *takes out megaphone* "BIGGER." Supposedly it starts running out of steam around the fourth sequel, but the initial trilogy is golden.
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Jul 13, 2014 17:29
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...of SCIENCE! posted:One little thing dragging Bioshock 2 down for me is the way that they completely abandoned the rad cobbled-together guns of the first game in favor of...a shotgun. And a machine gun. Did you never get any upgrades? They cobbled tons of stuff onto them. In Bioshock 1 you have a totally mundane pump action and tommy gun until you upgrade them; it's the same in 2.
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Jul 13, 2014 17:33
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Bioshock Infinite is weird because I can absolutely see both people who hate it and love it. It's a gorgeous game and I actually really do love the story. It suffers from Twist syndrome in that the second play-through is nowhere near as good as the first. The problems are there though, the game play is really samey at times and the resurrection gimmick is nowhere near as well done as 1 since all that happens is Elizabeth... wakes you up I guess? Also Bioshock Infinite is THE definition of "I GUESS THE TRUTH IS IN THE MIDDLE!" with the incredibly lovely Vox Populi resolution.Oxxidation posted:Yes, do that. The only thing that changes from R&C 1 to the rest of the games is that Ratchet becomes less of a douche bag, and Insomniac repeatedly has this conversation: "We need to make the guns bigger. Bigger. I said bigger." *takes out megaphone* "BIGGER." All the R&C games kick rear end, the only bad one is Into the Nexus and that's only because it's obscenely short.
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Jul 13, 2014 17:41
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Oxxidation posted:Yes, do that. The only thing that changes from R&C 1 to the rest of the games is that Ratchet becomes less of a douche bag, and Insomniac repeatedly has this conversation: "We need to make the guns bigger. Bigger. I said bigger." *takes out megaphone* "BIGGER." The first R&C is kind of weak because it's basically Mario 64 With Guns, they really hit their groove with the 2nd one where they introduced the RPG elements and upgrades.
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Jul 13, 2014 17:42
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Oxxidation posted:Yes, do that. The only thing that changes from R&C 1 to the rest of the games is that Ratchet becomes less of a douche bag, and Insomniac repeatedly has this conversation: "We need to make the guns bigger. Bigger. I said bigger." *takes out megaphone* "BIGGER." I will move then, thanks! So far the only weapons in R&C I got were the wrench and the flamethrower but I heard about the insane stuff they put in that area. Before playing Jak 2 I thought the only misstep for Naughty Dog was the first Uncharted.
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Jul 13, 2014 17:46
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Civilization V You ask a friendly civ what they want for a luxury resource. They want 4 of your resources, a couple of strategic resources, open borders, 50 gold and 5 gold per turn. You offer 5 gold per turn and two resources. 'That is not even close to a fair deal'. It's an outrageously loving generous deal, you absolute dicksplash!
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Jul 13, 2014 18:46
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Terminally Bored posted:I will move then, thanks! So far the only weapons in R&C I got were the wrench and the flamethrower but I heard about the insane stuff they put in that area. Before playing Jak 2 I thought the only misstep for Naughty Dog was the first Uncharted. Good thing Uncharted 1 was awesome with some flaws then rather than a real misstep. Edit: meant uncharted 1. It's a solid game with some issues like grenades and the need to use sixaxis a little too much, but is still a blast. MrJacobs has a new favorite as of 19:42 on Jul 13, 2014 |
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Jul 13, 2014 19:02
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Walton Simons posted:Civilization V If they're asking that much for a luxury it's either their only copy (which they will never, ever, part with without a ludicrously beneficial deal) or they're not nearly as friendly as you think they are and you should probably be wary of a surprise attack.
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Jul 13, 2014 19:14
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Walton Simons posted:Civilization V Celery Face has a new favorite as of 20:21 on Jul 13, 2014 |
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Jul 13, 2014 20:06
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poptart_fairy posted:I loved Bioshock 2, but definitely think the way you were so agile and quick counted against it. If the game made a bigger deal out of you being a hulking machine cyborg human flesh monstrosity thing, rather than cobbling together quick bollocks about you being super special and fast, it would have been more satisfying I think. Design the combat around you being a Big Daddy (and having to compensate for the comparatively quicker and more agile enemies) rather than being a reskinned human. Well you weren't a Big Daddy like in the first one, you were an Alpha Series. You are basically wearing a leather jumpsuit and an old diving helmet. Definitely not something that should be super fast, but nowhere near the hulking, armored monstrosity that the BS1 Big Daddies are. You actually fight a few in one of the levels and they go down pretty easy. I think one of the audio logs mentions how they decided to upgrafe the armor to iron, seeing as how the Alpha series went down fairly easily.
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Jul 13, 2014 21:38
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...of SCIENCE! posted:The first R&C is kind of weak because it's basically Mario 64 With Guns, they really hit their groove with the 2nd one where they introduced the RPG elements and upgrades. What makes the first game really hard (gently caress you Drek  ) compared to the sequels is the total absence of strafing. Also, grinding for bolts is a lot less fun.
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Jul 13, 2014 21:53
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OldTennisCourt posted:All the R&C games kick rear end, the only bad one is
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Jul 13, 2014 22:14
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Your Gay Uncle posted:Well you weren't a Big Daddy like in the first one, you were an Alpha Series. You are basically wearing a leather jumpsuit and an old diving helmet. Definitely not something that should be super fast, but nowhere near the hulking, armored monstrosity that the BS1 Big Daddies are. You actually fight a few in one of the levels and they go down pretty easy. I think one of the audio logs mentions how they decided to upgrafe the armor to iron, seeing as how the Alpha series went down fairly easily. Yeah, that's what I meant. Wasn't too clear.  I didn't like the 'alpha' aspect to make you stand out. Maybe a slow, bruising brawler dude wouldn't have leant itself to the experience very well, I dunno.
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Jul 13, 2014 23:11
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poptart_fairy posted:Yeah, that's what I meant. Wasn't too clear. Also you start the game slow and heavy, but after 5 minutes you find a tonic that puts you back at the movement speed of the first game.
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Jul 14, 2014 00:22
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Your Gay Uncle posted:Well you weren't a Big Daddy like in the first one, you were an Alpha Series. You are basically wearing a leather jumpsuit and an old diving helmet. Definitely not something that should be super fast, but nowhere near the hulking, armored monstrosity that the BS1 Big Daddies are. You actually fight a few in one of the levels and they go down pretty easy. I think one of the audio logs mentions how they decided to upgrafe the armor to iron, seeing as how the Alpha series went down fairly easily. Haha drat, the designers wanted to make more interesting choices, but they couldn't because, duh, you're an Alpha Series
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Jul 14, 2014 03:25
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RyokoTK posted:That's fine, Ken Levine is a dumb hacky hack. Spalec posted:Bioshock Infinite was a gigantic turd though, I got it for free on PS+ and still felt it was a waste of my bandwidth. I'd have stopped playing 2 hours in if everyone on the internet hadn't said the ending was so game changing and amazing. It wasn't, it was a giant tedious, pretentious overlong snoozefest. I'm genuinely baffled why it got so well rated, beyond it being kinda pretty (and the first 30 minutes built a nice atmosphere) every single thing about the game was bad. I'm glad to know I'm not the only one who thought so about Infinite and Levine. Then again they're very very very very very very very very very painfully obviously games for the "smart" yet inexperienced teenage set, and I am neither of those things.
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Jul 14, 2014 03:59
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It's been over a year since Infinite came out, you don't have to loudly announce that you weren't impressed by it every time it's mentioned regardless of context anymore. I promise it won't make hurt your gamer cred or make people think less of you.
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Jul 14, 2014 04:04
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You mean my opinions aren't edgy anymore? Then clearly they're not worth having. Thanks for clearing that up.
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Jul 14, 2014 04:06
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mind the walrus posted:You mean my opinions aren't edgy anymore? Then clearly they're not worth having. Thanks for clearing that up. No what he means is people tend to use this thread to go "I HATED BIOSHOCK INFINITE" whenever it gets brought up and that we as a people can move on.
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Jul 14, 2014 04:13
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Ah. Did not know it was a trend. Sorry for being egocentric and taking it personally.
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Jul 14, 2014 04:17
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Len posted:No what he means is people tend to use this thread to go "I HATED BIOSHOCK INFINITE" whenever it gets brought up and that we as a people can move on. I don't know if you're aware of this but we've been talking about Bioshock games for a little while and so Bioshock Infinite may be somewhat relevant discussion in the Things Dragging This Game Down thread.
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Jul 14, 2014 05:50
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I just finished Dead Man's Switch in Shadowrun Returns. The quality really drops off at the third act. There's a gimmick enemy that requires you to use ecto guns to make sure they don't infinitely respawn. The final boss fight has you dealing with a caster who runs between four points on the map and supporting these targets you have to hurt but only when they're weak and you have to do this while dealing with the constantly respawning enemies. Eventually you learn to just go against everything you've learned up until now and exploit the AI pathfinding with some of your squadmates while making sure to attack the targets because they hurt every hostile unit in the map. Once you beat the caster, she runs off and you can finish off the gimmick enemies. It's all really tedious and doesn't feel as good as the combat of the earlier game. Also I get that it's a strategy RPG but gently caress the RNG when I've got a guy at point-black range on a target with 90% chance to hit and the shotgun blast whiffs. That all sucked but the final part has you talking to the important NPC's for the last time before you end the game. One of them is a cop hellbent on giving you poo poo the second you meet him. It feels like there's gonna be a confrontation later on in the game, but the end just gives you the option to call him an rear end in a top hat or do some stdh-level poo poo on him if you have the right stats. All it needed was a comment about how all the witnesses clapped.
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Jul 14, 2014 05:54
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Action Tortoise posted:I just finished Dead Man's Switch in Shadowrun Returns. The quality really drops off at the third act. There's a gimmick enemy that requires you to use ecto guns to make sure they don't infinitely respawn. The final boss fight has you dealing with a caster who runs between four points on the map and supporting these targets you have to hurt but only when they're weak and you have to do this while dealing with the constantly respawning enemies. Eventually you learn to just go against everything you've learned up until now and exploit the AI pathfinding with some of your squadmates while making sure to attack the targets because they hurt every hostile unit in the map. Once you beat the caster, she runs off and you can finish off the gimmick enemies. It's all really tedious and doesn't feel as good as the combat of the earlier game. I quit the game and never finished the final boss fight. I just found a wiki to see what I missed.
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