Canada Housing/Debt: Trust me, I'm a landlord.

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Canada Housing/Debt: Trust me, I'm a landlord.

colonel_korn: May 16, 2003

Is it just me or does the formatting on that page go completely screwy around October 2013? I wanted to keep reading but couldn't

Maybe I need to upgrade my browser or something.

# ? Jul 12, 2014 20:24

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 10, 2024 15:47

HookShot: Dec 26, 2005

Yeah, its just you, or at least it was fine for me all the way through.

# ? Jul 12, 2014 20:32

egg tats: Apr 3, 2010

colonel_korn posted:

Is it just me or does the formatting on that page go completely screwy around October 2013? I wanted to keep reading but couldn't
Maybe I need to upgrade my browser or something.

It worked for me but if "should I upgrade my browser" is a question you could ask yourself the answer is yes.

# ? Jul 12, 2014 20:40

Saltin: Aug 20, 2003; Don't touch

etalian posted:

Despite all the work it's still a really messed up house with exterior problems such as a constantly leaking roof and also ice dam problems.

Both of those things are related to one another, but you need to own a home and care to know why. Preventing it is pretty easy too.

I read through the page and that guy's situation is completely hosed. I've owned a home for 11 years now, it's about 90 years old, best guess, and when we first moved in it needed some TLC. I absolutely spent ten's of thousands getting it to where it needed to be, initially, but the example found on that guy's page is a real fringe case. He should have burned it down a long time ago, but it goes to show you how emotional people get about houses when they consider it a home.

Saltin fucked around with this message at 22:42 on Jul 12, 2014

# ? Jul 12, 2014 22:38

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

Took this picture after buying a $5 ice cream cone from the ripoff gelato place down the street, that doesn't even provide napkins. gently caress this town.

# ? Jul 13, 2014 17:25

Lexicon: Jul 29, 2003; I had a beer with Stephen Harper once and now I like him.

Cultural Imperial posted:

Took this picture after buying a $5 ice cream cone from the ripoff gelato place down the street, that doesn't even provide napkins. gently caress this town.

Christ, that looks like some kind of institution.

# ? Jul 13, 2014 17:39

Lexicon: Jul 29, 2003; I had a beer with Stephen Harper once and now I like him.

This is an interesting take on foreign ownership of real estate (in general): http://euronomist.blogspot.ca/2014/07/a-marriage-made-in-hell-housing-and.html

quote:

The simple answer is that housing is immovable. You cannot really take a house or an apartment and leave the country as you can do with other types of goods.That makes all the difference since it means that locals and foreigners compete for the same goods. If a producer can sell a banana at home and the same one abroad, then prices are charged accordingly and, if possible, charges foreigners more, given the extra trouble that is required. In the meantime, the producer cannot really charge the foreign price to the local market because there are many other substitutes: buy from another producer, buy an imported banana or buy some other fruit. In contrast, the house is stuck where it is built and there is no local nor foreign substitute for it. In addition, the developer has a very good alternative for local demand: sell it to a foreigner at an inflated price. Which is more profitable? Obviously the latter, and the locals will just have to meet the price if they want to purchase the property.

Thus, simply put, increased foreign demand for real estate is almost always bad news for the locals. The phenomenon has not just taken place in Spain, housing bubbles have appeared in the Netherlands, Greece, Cyprus and even London as it appears nowadays. So next time you hear about rising foreign demand for real estate in your country be wary, very wary.

I don't think foreign (i.e. non-local for my purposes here) ownership is much of a factor in Canada generally, but probably is to some extent in Vancouver, at least at the high end of the market, which has the predictable effect of displacing demand all the way down the chain.

# ? Jul 13, 2014 17:49

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

Great find Lexicon.

Also, ugh

quote:

The increase in wages was less than 70%, when house prices rose by almost 180%. House price in 1997 was approximately 14 times the wage index, while in 2008 it was more than 28 times. Foreign demand for housing has an even nastier side: it assists in the creation of a credit bubble as locals have to borrow more money for property purchasing and land developers borrow more as profit opportunities rise. Spain is again indicative of this behaviour as credit rose by more than 400% since 1998, mostly driven by these developments.

It's readily apparent to me that the people who run this country are even less innumerate and literate than its citizens. gently caress you Jim "Best Finance Minister Ever" Flaherty.

# ? Jul 13, 2014 18:16

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

Lexicon posted:

Christ, that looks like some kind of institution.

I estimate there must be around 3000 units coming up in those blocks.

# ? Jul 13, 2014 18:18

Rime: Nov 2, 2011; by Games Forum

Cultural Imperial posted:

Took this picture after buying a $5 ice cream cone from the ripoff gelato place down the street, that doesn't even provide napkins. gently caress this town.

If you mean Mercato, the secret to that place is the freezer at the right end of the counter when you walk in. Everything in there is under $2.50, only tourists and pubbies actually order from behind the counter. :science:

EDIT: Oh wait, that's the hosed up inverted-U building by Main Street that I was talking about a few pages back. Did you notice all the shoddy pillars they had to hastily stick underneath the overpass segment post-construction to keep it from collapsing? :laffo:

# ? Jul 13, 2014 18:55

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

I can't wait for a major earthquake to hit Vancouver.

# ? Jul 13, 2014 19:01

Dr. Witherbone: Nov 1, 2010; CHEESE LOOKS ON IN
DESPAIR BUT ALSO WITH
AN ERECTION

Cultural Imperial posted:

I can't wait for a major earthquake to hit Vancouver.

you seem to be gettin' a little unhinged pal

# ? Jul 13, 2014 19:04

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

Dr. Witherbone posted:

you seem to be gettin' a little unhinged pal

It's Karmic Retribution.

# ? Jul 13, 2014 19:11

PT6A: Jan 5, 2006; Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

Dr. Witherbone posted:

you seem to be gettin' a little unhinged pal

You're just noticing this now? He's been a bitter, racist lunatic for several months at least.

# ? Jul 13, 2014 19:25

Rime: Nov 2, 2011; by Games Forum

Or we're on a comedy forum which regularly incites pubbies to commit murder &/or suicide. :v:

# ? Jul 13, 2014 21:20

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

Holy poo poo

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-07-14/secret-path-revealed-for-chinese-billions-overseas.html

quote:

For years, wealthy Chinese have been transferring billions worth of their money overseas, snapping up pricey real estate in markets including New York, Sydney and Vancouver despite their country�s currency restrictions.

Now, one way they could be doing it is clearer. Last week, when China Central Television leveled money-laundering allegations against Bank of China Ltd., the state-run broadcaster�s report prompted the revelation of a previously unannounced government program that enables individuals to transfer their yuan and convert it into dollars or other currencies overseas.

Offered by some banks in the southern province of Guangdong, across the border from Hong Kong, the trial program was introduced in 2011 for overseas property purchases and emigration and doesn�t constitute money laundering, Bank of China said in a July 9 statement. The transfers were allowed by regulators and reported to them, the bank said.

�What it shows is the government has been trying to internationalize the renminbi for a lot longer than we thought,� Jim Antos, a Hong Kong-based analyst at Mizuho Securities Ltd., said by phone, using the official name for China�s currency and referring to policy makers� long-stated goal of allowing the yuan to become freely convertible with other currencies. �I�m rather encouraged by this news because this is the way they need to go.�

Currency Controls

China�s foreign-exchange rules cap the maximum amount of yuan that individuals are allowed to convert at $50,000 each year and ban them from transferring the currency abroad directly. Policy makers have taken steps in recent years, including allowing freer movements of capital in and out of China, as they seek to boost the global stature of the not-yet-fully convertible yuan.

�There�s a silver lining in this incident as it may force the regulators to address the issue in a more open and transparent way,� Zhou Hao, a Shanghai-based economist at Australia & New Zealand Banking Group Ltd., said by phone. �This is an irreversible trend.�

The issue came to light after CCTV said Bank of China helped customers transfer unlimited amounts of yuan abroad through a product called Youhuitong, which means �superior foreign-exchange channel.�

Positives, Negatives

The program is another sign that China is testing methods to allow outward yuan flows before full convertibility, May Yan, a Hong Kong-based analyst at Barclays Plc, said by phone. The goal has been announced by policy makers since the 1990s, and is a step toward stated plans to make Shanghai a global financial capital by 2020.

�For an experiment, you want to see if there�s any positives or negatives,� Yan said. �When the bank or the regulators can accumulate that experience, then they will decide if they want to move forward, or broaden it or shut it down.�

The central bank in February unveiled rules to make it easier for companies with operations in Shanghai�s free-trade zone to move yuan in and out of the country, a further loosening of controls on currency flows. The yuan surpassed the euro as the world�s second most-popular currency in trade finance in 2013, according to the Society for Worldwide Interbank Financial Telecommunication.

The Guangdong branch of China�s currency regulator, the State Administration of Foreign Exchange, picked Bank of China, China Citic Bank Corp. (998) and a foreign lender to let individuals transfer yuan abroad in a trial the banks were told not to promote, Time Weekly reported in April 2013. A Beijing-based Citic Bank press officer declined to comment on the program.

$3.2 Billion Estimate

While Bank of China didn�t provide figures, the 21st Century Business Herald estimated the lender has moved about 20 billion yuan ($3.2 billion) abroad through Youhuitong, citing people with knowledge of the trial program. �Many commercial banks� in Guangdong offer a similar service, Bank of China said in its statement, without naming them.

Today, a link on CCTV�s website for the report on Bank of China led only to advertisements. A spokeswoman for CCTV�s international relations department, which handles foreign media inquiries, didn�t immediately respond to an e-mailed request for comment on why the story appeared to no longer be available.

The People�s Bank of China and SAFE didn�t reply to requests for comment. The central bank is �verifying� facts related to media reports of bank money-laundering, the official Xinhua News Agency reported July 10, citing a PBOC spokesman.

Youhuitong Suspended

Youhuitong has been suspended while the PBOC and its anti-money laundering bureau request records of all previous transactions, according to a person familiar with the product, who asked not to be identified because he wasn�t authorized to speak publicly.

Transfer approval for Youhuitong customers usually takes several weeks to a month, the person said. They need to provide documents showing how the money to be transferred was obtained, such as tax-payment receipts and proof of income, as well as a property-purchase agreement or proof of emigration, he said.

Youhuitong customers would typically deposit yuan with Bank of China (3988) at least two weeks before the transfer, the person said. Once approved, the customer and the bank agree on an exchange rate before the funds are moved to an overseas account designated by the customer, he said. Money destined for real estate would go directly to the property seller�s account to ensure the cash won�t be misused, he said.

A Beijing-based press officer for Bank of China declined to comment. Industrial & Commercial Bank of China Ltd. and China Construction Bank Corp. (939), the nation�s two largest banks, declined to comment on whether they offer similar products.

Another Way

HSBC Holdings Plc (5), which runs the largest branch network among foreign banks in China, offers its Chinese clients another way to access offshore mortgages while avoiding the cap on foreign-exchange conversion, according to a person familiar with the mechanism, who asked not to be identified without having authorization to speak publicly.

Customers deposit yuan with HSBC�s mainland unit or purchase its wealth-management products, and the bank�s overseas branch then issues a foreign-currency denominated mortgage using the China deposits as collateral, the person said.

�We seek to abide by the rules and laws of the jurisdictions and geographies in which we operate,� said Gareth Hewett, a Hong Kong-based HSBC spokesman.

Affluent Chinese have been moving money overseas in search of greater investment returns. China�s benchmark stock index has tumbled 66 percent from its 2007 record, while the government has clamped down on property lending to rein in rising prices.

U.S. Purchases

Chinese buyers, including people from Hong Kong and Taiwan, spent $22 billion on U.S. homes in the year through March, up 72 percent from the same period in 2013 and more than any other nationality, the National Association of Realtors said in its annual report on foreign home purchases.

�Clearly the property market wouldn�t nearly be so robust as it is today without mainland money,� Mizuho�s Antos said. �How did they do it? With Bank of China�s help. There has been a tremendous amount of mainland money flowing offshore and it couldn�t have happened without� official approval.

Chinese have become the biggest investors in Australia�s commercial and residential property, with purchases surging 42 percent to A$5.9 billion ($5.6 billion) in the year to June 2013, according to the country�s Foreign Investment Review Board.

Vancouver Property

Vancouver�s real estate market has also seen the impact, having been �fueled tremendously in the last couple of years by high-end wealthy Chinese and Hong Kong buyers,� according to real estate agent Malcolm Hasman.

China needed to improve its oversight of capital flows after $2.7 trillion in unexplained funds moved overseas in the decade prior to 2012, Anthony Neoh, a former government adviser who helped the country open up to foreign money managers, said last year, citing data from Integrity International. Those funds fueled property bubbles in cities such as Hong Kong instead of being invested in domestic assets, he said.

�We know the demand to move abroad is there,� said ANZ�s Zhou. �Even if you impose various restrictions, the money will find its way out of the country, via underground banks and other means.�

e: I'm really interested to see how this unfolds. With the IIP and now the youhuitong suspended, I wonder if we'll see anything happen to Vancouver's market.

namaste friends fucked around with this message at 06:59 on Jul 14, 2014

# ? Jul 14, 2014 06:54

on the left: Nov 2, 2013; I Am A Gigantic Piece Of Shit

Literally poo from a diseased human butt

Of course people who are politically connected are allowed to convert a lot of money into USD or other reserve currency, but you only need to go to the "Pawn Shops" in Hong Kong to see really hardcore money laundering going on.

You can go to Hong Kong, buy something at a pawn shop using your Chinese bank card and return it minutes later for Hong Kong dollars, minus a spread for the dealer. If you have cash and getting cash across the border is an issue, you can also buy jewelry in Guangzhou/Shenzhen and take the train into Hong Kong to trade it for convertible currency.

# ? Jul 14, 2014 07:58

LemonDrizzle: Mar 28, 2012; neoliberal shithead

on the left posted:

You can go to Hong Kong, buy something at a pawn shop using your Chinese bank card and return it minutes later for Hong Kong dollars, minus a spread for the dealer. If you have cash and getting cash across the border is an issue, you can also buy jewelry in Guangzhou/Shenzhen and take the train into Hong Kong to trade it for convertible currency.

I am now imagining a middle aged chinese bureaucrat blinged out like Mister T quietly sitting on a train wearing enough gold and ice to buy a prime apartment in NY or London.

# ? Jul 14, 2014 08:02

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

Winnipeg is the best place on earth and it's different there.

http://blog.reincanada.com/winner-peg-and-why-we-love-it

quote:

The new housing market in Winnipeg has quietly been very strong for some time; the Statistics Canada new home index price in the Winnipeg Census Metropolitan Area (CMA) has increased by an average of 6.6% per year over the past ten years, higher than both Toronto and Ottawa. In addition to strong price growth, housing starts increased 15.7% in 2013 to 4,705 in the CMA according to CMHC, well above the ten year average of 3,161 units. Winnipeg is embracing condominium living with 1,151 condominium apartment starts in the CMA in 2013, a 46.4% increase over 2012. There were more condo starts in 2013 in the Winnipeg CMA than there were between 1998 and 2005!

Part of the increase in condominium activity can be attributed to the City of Winnipeg’s push to promote a revitalization of the downtown area. The Downtown Residential Development Grant (DRDG) established by the City of Winnipeg and the Province of Manitoba offered approximately $40 million in grants for residential development in Winnipeg's downtown. The DRDG obtained applications for approximately 30 projects totaling nearly 1,400 units. With the assistance of CentreVenture Development Corporation, an arms-length agency of the City of Winnipeg, approximately $250 million in development has been added to downtown Winnipeg since 2008. Major hotels, offices and rental projects are under construction or planned for the downtown, which has flourished with the return of the Winnipeg Jets and the renewed interest in the core that the CentreVenture team has created.

According to the City of Winnipeg’s “Downtown Trends” publication, 72,000 people go downtown to work each weekday. In addition, some 40,000 students go to school downtown on a typical day. However, there are just 16,000 people living in downtown Winnipeg. That is a huge discrepancy, but according to a Winnipeg “Downtown Workers Survey”, 83% of respondents who work downtown but do not reside downtown said they would move downtown if there were more housing choices available.

Price growth has been strong and starts are near record highs. All forecasts are calling for a retrenchment in starts activity in 2014 from the 4,705 in the CMA in 2013 with calls for 3,500, 3,600, 4,000 and 4,100 housing starts this year from TD Economics, Altus Group, Conference Board of Canada, and CMHC respectively – all well above the ten year average.

Many other economic indicators for Winnipeg are quite positive as well, Altus Group is forecasting 2014 employment growth for the Winnipeg CMA of 4,500 jobs in 2014 and 5,400 jobs in 2015 compared to 1,700 in 2013. Statistics Canada indicates that the Winnipeg unemployment rate of 5.8% in January 2014 is below that of Halifax, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto, Kitchener-Waterloo, London and Vancouver. Resale prices have been consistent and growing with appreciation of 5.6%, 5.7% and 5.2% in 2011, 2012 and 2013 respectively.

People living outside of Manitoba might be shocked to find out how high the prices are for new single-detached homes in the Winnipeg CMA. In January 2014 the average absorbed single-detached home in the CMA was approximately $448,000, an increase of 15.8% over January 2013. Based on a 120 unit sample of ground-oriented home prices collected by Fortress Real Developments for the Winnipeg CMA, the average asking price was $475,000, with pricing in southeast Winnipeg topping $520,000 and southwest Winnipeg topping $550,000.

CMHC is forecasting a jump in new single-detached pricing of 2.5% in 2014, which may have to be adjusted based on the nearly 16% increase the January figures indicated. As we have seen in Vancouver, Toronto, Ottawa and Calgary, these higher prices for low-rise homes have driven young people to the condominium market. CMHC also recently commented that Winnipeg’s demographic profile is showing a higher level of growth in younger households who have the propensity to rent or purchase a condominium, and older households looking to downsize. Therefore, the opportunity exists to purchase single-detached homes in Winnipeg that are appreciating quickly right now, or capitalize on a condominium market that is poised to take off in the coming years.

In the Metropolitan Housing Outlook publication from last year, The Conference Board of Canada stated that “the medium-term outlook [for Winnipeg] features a decent economy and brisk population growth that will underpin continued resale transactions and price advances, along with buoyant housing starts. Excellent ownership affordability and evidence of slight pent-up demand for new construction are additional positive factors”. As an investor in rental properties, no better words can be said. In addition, according to CMHC, the year-over-year change in the average rent for a two-bedroom apartment in the Winnipeg CMA is 4.8%.

Because of the tremendously positive fundamentals, in 2014, Fortress Real Developments and Mady Development Corporation will launch the tallest tower between Toronto and Calgary in downtown Winnipeg. This mixed-use project called Sky City Centre Winnipeg will include residential condominiums, office space, and retail. A project this ambitious didn’t come without extensive research on the housing market conditions in the Winnipeg Census Metropolitan Area (CMA), the City of Winnipeg, and downtown Winnipeg.

Either as an investor or an end-user, the data for Winnipeg is extremely positive.

Winnipeg's housing market is one of the few that's shrinking in Canada right now.

# ? Jul 14, 2014 15:05

Doomy: Oct 19, 2004

There's plenty of advertising for 2.5% mortgages and HELOC's popping up in Winnipeg.

My finacee and I recently moved into an apartment together, and we definitely had heard some of the common talk of "we're not building equity" & "throwing away money on rent" & "we've already made $40,000 because our condo has appreciated". There was simply no financially responsible way we could have afforded a house right now, or all the downside risk of owning property, so I'm glad we're renting instead of owning.

I find this thread really interesting, but I do have a hard time relating what most of you are talking about in Toronto and Vancouver to Winnipeg's market. Though it seems conceivable that if housing starts to fall elsewhere, it'll surely affect Winnipeg in turn.

# ? Jul 14, 2014 15:34

ocrumsprug: Sep 23, 2010; by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

Doomy posted:

I find this thread really interesting, but I do have a hard time relating what most of you are talking about in Toronto and Vancouver to Winnipeg's market. Though it seems conceivable that if housing starts to fall elsewhere, it'll surely affect Winnipeg in turn.

Once the market starts to turn in a couple of the key areas, it will kick the chair out from underneath the narrative that real estate always goes up uP UP. As soon as that occurs, there will be people that look at their $350K* Winnipeg or $250K Lillooet home purchase and will start to get very nervous.

* Jesus, just peeked at Winnipeg on MLS to get a reasonable range and was stunned by how cheap houses are there. Are those mobile homes built on a currently flooded flood plain? (Of course it is likely that after living in Vancouver for so long, my real estate value judgement is permanently damaged.)

# ? Jul 14, 2014 17:26

Rime: Nov 2, 2011; by Games Forum

ocrumsprug posted:

Once the market starts to turn in a couple of the key areas, it will kick the chair out from underneath the narrative that real estate always goes up uP UP. As soon as that occurs, there will be people that look at their $350K* Winnipeg or $250K Lillooet home purchase and will start to get very nervous.

* Jesus, just peeked at Winnipeg on MLS to get a reasonable range and was stunned by how cheap houses are there. Are those mobile homes built on a currently flooded flood plain? (Of course it is likely that after living in Vancouver for so long, my real estate value judgement is permanently damaged.)

Hahaha, oh man, I was up in Lillooet this weekend and it's just the most depressing loving place on earth. Everything, everything on the main street is for sale.

On the other hand, the gas station still lets you fill up and then pay afterwards, which confused me so much that the attendant had to come out and explain what was going on. :v:

# ? Jul 14, 2014 17:30

Lexicon: Jul 29, 2003; I had a beer with Stephen Harper once and now I like him.

Is Whistler still in bad shape, valuations wise?

I was a bit disappointed that the fairly serious price reductions across the board there did not remotely enter the narrative. I suppose the paymasters of the Vancouver Sun et al would want it that way.

# ? Jul 14, 2014 17:37

Baronjutter: Dec 31, 2007; "Tiny Trains"

Since it's summer and road trip time I've noticed it and my friends have noticed it too: small towns seem to really be dying. Everything's for sale, everything's decaying, everything's closed. Both here and in the US. Purely anecdotal but it seems extra bad this year suddenly. Specially any town that mostly services travelers or tourists. My friends go up-island a lot to camp or house-boat and they noticed that like half the shops or places they'd hit up on the way are out of business now.

# ? Jul 14, 2014 17:39

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

Lexicon posted:

Is Whistler still in bad shape, valuations wise?

I was a bit disappointed that the fairly serious price reductions across the board there did not remotely enter the narrative. I suppose the paymasters of the Vancouver Sun et al would want it that way.

No, whistler has been quite hot since the winter. Good properties are getting bought very quickly.

# ? Jul 14, 2014 17:41

Lexicon: Jul 29, 2003; I had a beer with Stephen Harper once and now I like him.

Baronjutter posted:

Since it's summer and road trip time I've noticed it and my friends have noticed it too: small towns seem to really be dying. Everything's for sale, everything's decaying, everything's closed. Both here and in the US. Purely anecdotal but it seems extra bad this year suddenly. Specially any town that mostly services travelers or tourists. My friends go up-island a lot to camp or house-boat and they noticed that like half the shops or places they'd hit up on the way are out of business now.

The rise of the city. It's a widespread phenomenon.

In a way, we should celebrate it - it's enormously wasteful to have these little places in the middle of nowhere that no longer have any semblance of their original purpose for being established.

# ? Jul 14, 2014 18:05

Brannock: Feb 9, 2006; by exmarx; Fallen Rib

Lexicon posted:

The rise of the city. It's a widespread phenomenon.

In a way, we should celebrate it - it's enormously wasteful to have these little places in the middle of nowhere that no longer have any semblance of their original purpose for being established.

Does this mean that smaller cities will grow as those small towns get abandoned, or will we just see places like Toronto and NYC get even bigger?

# ? Jul 14, 2014 18:17

triplexpac: Mar 24, 2007; Suck it
Two tears in a bucket
And then another thing
I'm not the one they'll try their luck with
Hit hard like brass knuckles
See your face through the turnbuckle dude
I got no love for you

Brannock posted:

Does this mean that smaller cities will grow as those small towns get abandoned, or will we just see places like Toronto and NYC get even bigger?

I'm no urbanization expert, but around Toronto what you're seeing is some of the "small towns" that are 60-90 mins away from the city getting bigger and bigger. And way more expensive, on top of that.

So yeah I guess pockets around the major cities will continue to grow until we end up in a Judge Dredd style future.

# ? Jul 14, 2014 18:26

computer parts: Nov 18, 2010; PLEASE CLAP

Brannock posted:

Does this mean that smaller cities will grow as those small towns get abandoned, or will we just see places like Toronto and NYC get even bigger?

Bit of both, probably, it depends on the state/province.

Somewhere like Illinois is always going to be dominated by Chicago, but I think areas with large numbers of college towns (for example) are going to see significant growth in those towns because they have the technological and capital investment required for a prosperous area and they're still fairly independent too.

# ? Jul 14, 2014 18:33

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

Lexicon posted:

The rise of the city. It's a widespread phenomenon.

In a way, we should celebrate it - it's enormously wasteful to have these little places in the middle of nowhere that no longer have any semblance of their original purpose for being established.

But what will happen to ~rural culture

# ? Jul 14, 2014 18:46

EvilJoven: Mar 18, 2005; NOBODY,IN THE HISTORY OF EVER, HAS ASKED OR CARED WHAT CANADA THINKS. YOU ARE NOT A COUNTRY. YOUR MONEY HAS THE QUEEN OF ENGLAND ON IT. IF YOU DIG AROUND IN YOUR BACKYARD, NATIVE SKELETONS WOULD EXPLODE OUT OF YOUR LAWN LIKE THE END OF POLTERGEIST. CANADA IS SO POLITE, EH?; Fun Shoe

I live in Winnipeg and my wife works in construction. We're already seeing prices drop and houses sitting on the market for longer.

A pile of stupidly priced condos my wife built a few months ago had about 100K slashed off the price because they arent moving at all. Fortunately her company was just there as a subcontractor so they're not being left holding the bag.

People for the most part recognize that housing is stupidly overvalued here, especially when compared against the historically lower than average wages in the city.

The only people who seem to be convinced that these prices are acceptable are people who bought high and are trying to justify the prices they paid.

# ? Jul 14, 2014 18:57

Geoid: Oct 18, 2005; Just Add Water

EvilJoven posted:

I live in Winnipeg and my wife works in construction. We're already seeing prices drop and houses sitting on the market for longer.

A pile of stupidly priced condos my wife built a few months ago had about 100K slashed off the price because they arent moving at all. Fortunately her company was just there as a subcontractor so they're not being left holding the bag.

People for the most part recognize that housing is stupidly overvalued here, especially when compared against the historically lower than average wages in the city.

The only people who seem to be convinced that these prices are acceptable are people who bought high and are trying to justify the prices they paid.

More anecdotal evidence, but a friend of mine just signed off on a house and noticed that there are hardly any bidding wars this year, especially compared to last summer. Realtors are now saying off-the-record the whole market is cooling down. People are also wondering if it's related to the terrible winter and terrible spring keeping people from the usual house hunting routine. More likely it's just an oversaturated market finally adjusting to demand.

# ? Jul 14, 2014 19:01

Blade_of_tyshalle: Jul 12, 2009; If you think that, along the way, you're not going to fail... you're blind.

There's no one I've ever met, no matter how successful they are, who hasn't said they had their failures along the way.

triplexpac posted:

So yeah I guess pockets around the major cities will continue to grow until we end up in a Judge Dredd style future.

Torontreal. I can't wait.

# ? Jul 14, 2014 19:26

Kafka Esq.: Jan 1, 2005; "If you ever even think about calling me anything but 'The Crab' I will go so fucking crab on your ass you won't even see what crab'd your crab" -The Crab(TM)

Lexicon posted:

The rise of the city. It's a widespread phenomenon.

In a way, we should celebrate it - it's enormously wasteful to have these little places in the middle of nowhere that no longer have any semblance of their original purpose for being established.

On the other hand, small rural towns have way more chances to be sustainable than big urbanized ones. Cities created the global supply chain that is killing the planet.

# ? Jul 14, 2014 19:27

Rutibex: Sep 9, 2001; by Fluffdaddy

Brannock posted:

Does this mean that smaller cities will grow as those small towns get abandoned, or will we just see places like Toronto and NYC get even bigger?

Los Angeles 2019

# ? Jul 14, 2014 19:31

Baronjutter: Dec 31, 2007; "Tiny Trains"

Kafka Esq. posted:

On the other hand, small rural towns have way more chances to be sustainable than big urbanized ones. Cities created the global supply chain that is killing the planet.

How can a small town be more sustainable? Small towns use more land, resources, and energy per capita.

# ? Jul 14, 2014 19:31

Kafka Esq.: Jan 1, 2005; "If you ever even think about calling me anything but 'The Crab' I will go so fucking crab on your ass you won't even see what crab'd your crab" -The Crab(TM)

Baronjutter posted:

How can a small town be more sustainable? Small towns use more land, resources, and energy per capita.

Are you asking how can it be, or why it isn't right now?

Cities encourage capitalist expansion, as shown by this very thread. Rural towns tend to limit it. Devising a sustainable future involves a lot of changes, but that's a good start.

# ? Jul 14, 2014 19:48

Franks Happy Place: Mar 15, 2011; It is by weed alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the dank of Sapho that thoughts acquire speed, the lips acquire stains, stains become a warning. It is by weed alone I set my mind in motion.

Kafka Esq. posted:

Are you asking how can it be, or why it isn't right now?

Cities encourage capitalist expansion, as shown by this very thread. Rural towns tend to limit it. Devising a sustainable future involves a lot of changes, but that's a good start.

[Citation needed]

# ? Jul 14, 2014 19:52

Kafka Esq.: Jan 1, 2005; "If you ever even think about calling me anything but 'The Crab' I will go so fucking crab on your ass you won't even see what crab'd your crab" -The Crab(TM)

Franks Happy Place posted:

[Citation needed]

You're right. Try The Transformation of the World by Jurgen Osterhammel. Lots of stuff written about the nineteenth century is cited in there. Bayly is another view on it.

Specifically dealing with the concentration of rent-seekers in cities is a little more difficult and I can't think of anything off the top of my head, but it was the subject of a lecture in university.

# ? Jul 14, 2014 19:56

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# ? May 10, 2024 15:47

Franks Happy Place: Mar 15, 2011; It is by weed alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the dank of Sapho that thoughts acquire speed, the lips acquire stains, stains become a warning. It is by weed alone I set my mind in motion.

Kafka Esq. posted:

You're right. Try The Transformation of the World by Jurgen Osterhammel. Lots of stuff written about the nineteenth century is cited in there. Bayly is another view on it.

Specifically dealing with the concentration of rent-seekers in cities is a little more difficult and I can't think of anything off the top of my head, but it was the subject of a lecture in university.

When I was studying for my masters in Urban Studies (before I dropped out!), I read a shitload of papers that all point to increasing urbanization as a big driver of efficiencies and reduced environmental/carbon footprints. For instance, all of Krugman's important work, including stuff related to what got him a Nobel Prize, deals with interlinking externalities associated with urbanization and their massive economic advantages. Obviously you should build your cities like London and not like Dallas to get the most of those benefits, but I don't think a book about 19th century Europe really counters the massive overhanging glacier of evidence that bigger cities = a healthier planet.

# ? Jul 14, 2014 20:08

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Canada Housing/Debt: Trust me, I'm a landlord.

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