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Dungeon Ecology posted:I wish they would let us know what FFL looked like after the block rotates out. I really want to know how close the overall metagame gets to their insular meta. From the hints they've dropped in the past, it sounds like they frequently miss huge things and can be way, way off in what dominates the metagame. Granted, this is not all that surprising (just look at how much things change over the lifespan of one set), but it's still amusing. Also frustrating when they print silver bullets like that, yeah. On the flip side, sometimes they'll specifically push things knowing that they'll make an impact in Standard (see: Batterskull, that dumb gently caress card). I swear there's been a couple articles about FFL testing before, but I could be dreaming that up. Pretty sure they never saw Delver dominance coming, for example. Cernunnos posted:It very well could be the card's name but names can change at any time until they send it off to the printers so it could change.
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Jul 15, 2014 15:08
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During Odyssey development they kept nerfing Wizard tribal because a Patron Wizard deck was dominating FFL.
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Jul 15, 2014 15:34
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Zero_Grade posted:I swear there's been a couple articles about FFL testing before, but I could be dreaming that up. Pretty sure they never saw Delver dominance coming, for example. They're pretty limited in what they catch; Exarch-Twin was a two-card infinite combo in Standard that the FFL league totally never noticed, and I've heard conflicting reports on whether that's because they aren't good at Magic, or because Deceiver Exarch may have been changed after FFL testing to allow targeting of your own stuff.
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Jul 15, 2014 15:34
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The number of games played by the FFL is probably next to nothing compared to the number played on mtgo. MJ on one of his streams talked about how fast Wizards wants/expects the standard format to be "solved" and how Mtgo stomps all over that idea.
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Jul 15, 2014 15:45
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Sen-dart posted:The number of games played by the FFL is probably next to nothing compared to the number played on mtgo. MJ on one of his streams talked about how fast Wizards wants/expects the standard format to be "solved" and how Mtgo stomps all over that idea. The frequency of Grand Prix's and Open Series have a lot to do with it too. I think MTGO is a piece of that puzzle, but MTGO has been around since just after the turn of the century. In my opinion, the quicker "solving" of formats has a lot more to do with how the information gleaned from the massive amount of matches is disseminated to the "masses" playing Standard. Pre-2009 you didn't have any live streaming coverage of tournaments other than the Top 8 of a Pro Tour (4 times a year). Between Shards of Alara release and Zendikar release there were exactly 3 Standard Grand Prix, with only text coverage. From Theros to Khans of Tarkir there will be 16 Standard Grand Prix, most covered by video. In 2008 the SCG Open series didn't exist. Now we have a Standard SCG Open streamed to tens of thousands of unique viewers each week, who pass along the results to people at their shop, either by mouth or simply by bringing a deck that they saw on coverage to try out. On top of that, you can watch everyone and their cat run through constructed queues, whether its via Twitch or a strategy website. All in all I think it is a good thing for Magic to have so many ways to enjoy the product, but it definitely proves more of a challenge to design formats that don't get overexposed and stale due to the amount of Magic being played at a high competitive level. Magic has used the same basic release frequency and Standard rotation frequency for the majority of its lifetime (with minor tweaks of course), and I don't see the staleness issue being solved without a change to that process.
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Jul 15, 2014 16:30
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I'm reading through Blogatog and Maro is super butthurt about Hornet Queen. Like, the most butthurt I've ever seen him be about anything.
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Jul 15, 2014 16:31
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For those of you more familiar with layer, how confused are people going to be when the following inevitably happens? Cast Turn to Frog on your Darksteel Citadel with an Ensoul Artifact on it. And then I will destroy the Ensoul Artifact. And then (just for extra confusion) I will Doomblade it.
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Jul 15, 2014 16:32
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Froghammer posted:I'm reading through Blogatog and Maro is super butthurt about Hornet Queen. Like, the most butthurt I've ever seen him be about anything. Link? The keeper of the color pie oh no AlternateNu posted:For those of you more familiar with layer, how confused are people going to be when the following inevitably happens? People aren't going to be confused about layers, they'll be more confused about how indestructible is now a keyword and can be removed like anything else.
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Jul 15, 2014 16:35
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Froghammer posted:I'm reading through Blogatog and Maro is super butthurt about Hornet Queen. Like, the most butthurt I've ever seen him be about anything. You should have seen him talk about Hornet Sting.
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Jul 15, 2014 16:37
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Mortimer posted:Link? quote:gipsonlens said: I thought it was stated at one point that green was allowed to have flyers on rare occasion. The Hornet Nest and Hornet Queen discussion leads me to believe that it's no longer true? Is there any kind of flyer that's allowed in green? quote:nvoitek said: How you feel about Hornet Queen being a intro pack rare? quote:esrix said: I still don't understand why Hornet Queen is out of the color pie. Insects are green. Hornets are insects. Yes, they have flying, but that's what hornets do, they fly. Death touch is the most out of place since they don't kill with one sting. TBC... quote:johntheratherliked said: Have we seen the last of hornets? quote:vaultboy-zk said: Now this is going to be a pretty tricky question. With Hornet Nest in mind do you think we've seen the last color pie violation? quote:tikishades said: What didn't you like about Hornet Queen? Is it the fact that its basically 5 little kill spells on a stick?
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Jul 15, 2014 16:39
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Froghammer posted:I'm reading through Blogatog and Maro is super butthurt about Hornet Queen. Like, the most butthurt I've ever seen him be about anything. Yeah. It is someone else's pet card and they railroaded his objections so he uses his blog to take potshots at whomever. This is more or less what I read between the lines.
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Jul 15, 2014 16:40
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The long term health of the color pie 
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Jul 15, 2014 16:41
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He's right. The card is way overpowered.
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Jul 15, 2014 16:43
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Bread Set Jettison posted:The long term health of the color pie I don't disagree with him, the colors need to be defined. I just think he makes too big of a deal for a 1 of card. Then again I'm sure they regret damnation approximately 100 times a day because they don't want to reprint that kind of sweeper in black and people want it bad.
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Jul 15, 2014 16:45
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jassi007 posted:I don't disagree with him, the colors need to be defined. I just think he makes too big of a deal for a 1 of card. Then again I'm sure they regret damnation approximately 100 times a day because they don't want to reprint that kind of sweeper in black and people want it bad. Yeah which is a shame. Damnation rules but  Sometimes color wheel bleeding is ok, and thats why they tried to move looting into red (which they should move back now that we have chandra-looting). Hornet Queen doesn't seem so bad but I dunno I don't feel very strongly about it either way. I just find his rage toward the card a bit funny.
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Jul 15, 2014 16:51
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Meh. Hornet Queen isn't so amazing it's going to shape Constructed, unless Tarkir is really disappointing, so I don't see any reason against it. If it was more aggressively costed and likely to be relevant to stompy-goodstuff, then there'd be a problem.
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Jul 15, 2014 16:58
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I kind of understand it considering how many people still go "it was done in Planar Chaos therefore it's ok!" in regards to colour pie bleeding.
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Jul 15, 2014 16:58
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ThirdEmperor posted:Meh. Hornet Queen isn't so amazing it's going to shape Constructed, unless Tarkir is really disappointing, so I don't see any reason against it. If it was more aggressively costed and likely to be relevant to stompy-goodstuff, then there'd be a problem. I agree, but I also agree with MaRo. It does create expectations in players (Damnation) so do it when there is a really good reason to do it. Don't just do it because hey cool a big hornet that makes baby hornets.
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Jul 15, 2014 17:05
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The only colour pie violation on Hornet Queen is that it doesn't also tap for mana.
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Jul 15, 2014 17:05
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Pinterest Mom posted:The only colour pie violation on Hornet Queen is that it doesn't also tap for mana. I assume you mean Birds of Paradise is a small flying green creature. I'd wager if you ask him about BoP he'll say 'we don't print it anymore for a reason'
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Jul 15, 2014 17:06
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jassi007 posted:I agree, but I also agree with MaRo. It does create expectations in players (Damnation) so do it when there is a really good reason to do it. Don't just do it because hey cool a big hornet that makes baby hornets. If Damnation was in any other color I doubt people would be freaking out about a reprint but the cargo cult behind MBC is approaching parody levels.
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Jul 15, 2014 17:08
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ThirdEmperor posted:Meh. Hornet Queen isn't so amazing it's going to shape Constructed, unless Tarkir is really disappointing, so I don't see any reason against it. If it was more aggressively costed and likely to be relevant to stompy-goodstuff, then there'd be a problem. It doesn't have to shape constructed to be overpowered though... I doubt it will see much constructed play.
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Jul 15, 2014 17:13
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mcmagic posted:He's right. The card is way overpowered. I think it's extremely accurately powered for a card that costs 4GGG. That said it is one of the most obnoxious cards to play against in Limited that I have ever seen. It's up there with some of the more powerful planeswalkers. They could have at least put that 1/2 elf that pings all flyers into the set.
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Jul 15, 2014 17:16
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mcmagic posted:It doesn't have to shape constructed to be overpowered though... I doubt it will see much constructed play.
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Jul 15, 2014 17:18
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Lets Pickle posted:I think it's extremely accurately powered for a card that costs 4GGG. That said it is one of the most obnoxious cards to play against in Limited that I have ever seen. It's up there with some of the more powerful planeswalkers. They could have at least put that 1/2 elf that pings all flyers into the set. If you resolve it in limited you're winning the game 95% of the time because the only way to really beat it is a wrath effect and no one plays wrath effects in limited. It's an automatic 3 or 4 for 1 which is too good. It's even better than Elspeth in limited which is almost a guaranteed win the game too, NTM a mythic rare.
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Jul 15, 2014 17:25
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Why does Soul of Zendikar have Reach? I thought they've said that they generally tried to not put too many tap or block-based abilities on huge creatures unless they also have something like Vigilance, since once you get your expensive fattie out they want you to be free to actually attack with it? It seems weird that the green soul didn't end up with Trample. Re Flying chat: Scars block had not one but two different 5/5 Flying artifact creatures (which monogreen decks can cast) for 6 mana each, and both of them had abilities that could increase the total power worth of creatures they provided. Printing "essentially a 6/6 flier in green" isn't that crazy when it costs 7 mana. Lets Pickle posted:I think it's extremely accurately powered for a card that costs 4GGG. That said it is one of the most obnoxious cards to play against in Limited that I have ever seen. It's up there with some of the more powerful planeswalkers. They could have at least put that 1/2 elf that pings all flyers into the set. I'd expect it to be obnoxious in Limited, but I'd think that would have a lot more to do with it being a swarm of 5 Deathtouchers. (Haven't seen it played myself.) Lottery of Babylon fucked around with this message at 17:31 on Jul 15, 2014 |
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Jul 15, 2014 17:25
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jassi007 posted:I agree, but I also agree with MaRo. It does create expectations in players (Damnation) so do it when there is a really good reason to do it. Don't just do it because hey cool a big hornet that makes baby hornets. Damnation is a bad card because it's too cheap, not because of what colors it's in. A black board sweep is well within the color pie. And yeah, those false expectations have a lot to do with people crying over mono-black control.
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Jul 15, 2014 17:36
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FAKE EDIT: ^^^ exactly ^^^ Damnation isn't out-of-pie, it's just that having two 4-mana "destroy" sweepers in Standard has an intense effect of the metagame. Also the "cannot regenerate" clause is one they avoid.
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Jul 15, 2014 17:42
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jassi007 posted:I assume you mean Birds of Paradise is a small flying green creature. I'd wager if you ask him about BoP he'll say 'we don't print it anymore for a reason' He actually seems to be pretty okay with Birds of paradise. Birds usually acts like it has reach, as it doesn't attack too often. Although I'd bet birds wielding hammers annoys Mark. Blogatog posted:typefourtytardiss said: is birds of paradise acceptible color-pie wise, or is that in violation. At this point it is a high-profile card, and it doesn't have power to do anything with its flight (without being buffed)
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Jul 15, 2014 17:56
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Lottery of Babylon posted:Why does Soul of Zendikar have Reach? I thought they've said that they generally tried to not put too many tap or block-based abilities on huge creatures unless they also have something like Vigilance, since once you get your expensive fattie out they want you to be free to actually attack with it? It seems weird that the green soul didn't end up with Trample. It's because it makes 3/3 tokens to clog the ground, while the Soul itself plays scarecrow. It sets you up for Overrun (or whatever the convoke equivalent is?) so you can win the game via stampede.
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Jul 15, 2014 18:02
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Hornets of Paradise
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Jul 15, 2014 18:08
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Lottery of Babylon posted:Re Flying chat: Scars block had not one but two different 5/5 Flying artifact creatures (which monogreen decks can cast) for 6 mana each, and both of them had abilities that could increase the total power worth of creatures they provided. Printing "essentially a 6/6 flier in green" isn't that crazy when it costs 7 mana. Correctly or not, Rosewater sees "going to artifacts" as different from it actually being within a color. He talked a lot about that when Hornet Sting was printed. (on a semi-related note, if Hornet Queen sees absolutely no Constructed play I'd be surprised, it's a way for a green deck to shut down a swarm of creatures or a couple of big creatures while accruing CA)
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Jul 15, 2014 18:13
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Gyshall posted:Hornets of Paradise literally a hivewalk I'd be surprised if Hornet Queen sees real play because Anger of The Gods is a serious card. E: Oh yeah and drown in sorrow as well VVV
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Jul 15, 2014 18:14
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ThirdEmperor posted:Meh. Hornet Queen isn't so amazing it's going to shape Constructed, unless Tarkir is really disappointing, so I don't see any reason against it. If it was more aggressively costed and likely to be relevant to stompy-goodstuff, then there'd be a problem.
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Jul 15, 2014 18:14
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Aren't expensive rare casual cards exactly where you bleed the color pie to do cool poo poo (well, more often than in other places)? And how many green fliers have we had in Standard recently that Maro needs to worry about a run on the bank where all the color pie health bux are stored?
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Jul 15, 2014 18:16
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I get his frustration, because it sounds like they didn't have a real flavor justification for printing hornets but did it anyways. Its still probably not a big deal.
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Jul 15, 2014 18:18
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Hornet queen is easily my favorite reprint. Was my favorite thing to show in vs show and tell.
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Jul 15, 2014 18:20
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JerryLee posted:Aren't expensive rare casual cards exactly where you bleed the color pie to do cool poo poo (well, more often than in other places)? And how many green fliers have we had in Standard recently that Maro needs to worry about a run on the bank where all the color pie health bux are stored?
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Jul 15, 2014 18:21
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I love Hornet Nest's flavour :3
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Jul 15, 2014 18:22
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Maro eats sleeps and breathes MTG One slip of the color pie and he's already reading "how to tie a noose"
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Jul 15, 2014 18:23
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