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I never played all the way through IWD or IWD2 when I had the patience for 6 character parties in these games. Is it at all feasible to play with 1-2 characters? 3? I'm having a blast playing through the BG (EE) trilogy with a half-orc Fighter/Thief multi right now. Even with the level cap he was just way overpowered at the end of BG, and my backstab multiplier just keeps going up in BG2. 100% certain I wouldn't be bothered to manage more than 2 or 3 characters for a playthrough nowadays, 1 feels ideal.
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Jul 15, 2014 07:24
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Seashell Salesman posted:I never played all the way through IWD or IWD2 when I had the patience for 6 character parties in these games. Is it at all feasible to play with 1-2 characters? 3?
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Jul 15, 2014 07:33
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Seashell Salesman posted:I never played all the way through IWD or IWD2 when I had the patience for 6 character parties in these games. Is it at all feasible to play with 1-2 characters? 3? I'm sure it's possible, but they are both more tactical games than the Baldur's Gate games. 3 or more likely 4 characters seems like a more practical limit. Being able to do more than one thing at once can be a huge advantage.
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Jul 15, 2014 07:37
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I'm doing a 4 character run through IWD2 right now. It's feasible. In IWD2 at least you don't actually level that much faster with a smaller party than with a big party due to the way xp gains are calculated (lower level parties gain more xp, higher less). I'd say my 4 player characters are on average about 1 or maybe 2 levels higher than a six player party would be. That can make quite a difference for spellcasters though as you get access to the more devastating higher level spells quicker than a six player party would. The micromanagement is also much easier, and you have less characters to divy up powerful items with. It also makes ECL characters a little more palatable when you use them in a smaller party as they'll still level decently fast. Leveled up Drow and Deep Gnomes are a beautiful thing. In IWD1 you don't have to worry about the way xp is calculated and so you can use as big or a small a party as you want, with a smaller party leveling much faster than a larger one. One thing to note with IWD1 though is if you are using a small party your mage character will level up insanely fast but it will be a bit useless to be that far ahead in levels as you won't find high level spell scrolls fast enough to keep up with the new spell slots you open up by leveling so fast. Clerics and Druids don't have to worry about that, of course, and in IWD2 you don't have to worry about that if you take along a Sorcerer instead of a Wizard.
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Jul 15, 2014 07:59
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Is there any place that lists all the NPC quotes from BG2 in an organized form? Some are on wikiquote or various other sites but I wonder if there's a place that has them all. Basically a DIALOG.TLK in a comfortably browsable form, if you wish.
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Jul 15, 2014 15:43
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Mr. Neutron posted:Is there any place that lists all the NPC quotes from BG2 in an organized form? Some are on wikiquote or various other sites but I wonder if there's a place that has them all. Basically a DIALOG.TLK in a comfortably browsable form, if you wish.
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Jul 15, 2014 20:33
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In other news, apparently we're getting a Minsc and Boo comic book series.
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Jul 15, 2014 21:26
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I liked Minsc, but it seems to me they'd be stretching that joke pretty thin if they tried to base an entire comic on it. I wonder if there are enough people out there willing to throw money at this comic for it to be profitable.
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Jul 15, 2014 21:33
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I'm setting up a new playthrough of Icewind Dale because I never beat it on my now-defunct PC, and BGEE is giving my woefully outdated graphics card some issues. The first GameFAQ document I browsed for general tips suggested a team of five F/M/Cs and one F/M/T, which isn't important, but I thought it was hilarious that someone was autistic enough to think that was a good party composition. Anyway, here's what I'm thinking: Half-elven fighter/druid - I figure this would make a good party leader due to the (seemingly arbitrary) high CHA requirement. Last time I used a bard but kept having to switch them out (because having them lead the charge into a dungeon is a terrible idea) which got annoying. The fighter bit is for general hardiness and to bypass the druid's mediocre armor restrictions. Human fighter - I'm thinking of dumping proficiencies in large swords, because if BG taught me anything, the best late-game weapons will probably be large swords. Or is switching to great swords worthwhile? Lawful evil for kicks. Human paladin - Because unlike BG, my previous experiences with IWD is that hacking through everything is the best strategy due to limited spellcasting options. And it's less boring than just having another fighter. Human cleric - Every party needs one! Any reason this guy shouldn't be chaotic neutral? The idea of a roving, neutral priest is vaguely hilarious to me. Elven thief/mage - Rolling two weak support characters into one! Also lets the mage at least shoot arrows instead of being restricted to slings. And unlike a fighter/thief, you don't have to stop and take off his good armor every twenty feet to disable another trap. Also considering a gnome illusionist/thief but unsure if the INT boost is better than the DEX boost. Human bard - secondary spellcasting support, free identifying for most items, and those baller late-game bard songs. Proficiencies in crossbows and halberds, just so someone is using them (and the ability to stab things while hiding behind the fighter may be situationally useful). Thoughts? Suggestions?
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Jul 15, 2014 22:42
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Wolfsheim posted:Last time I used a bard but kept having to switch them out (because having them lead the charge into a dungeon is a terrible idea) which got annoying. Though if you plan to have a Paladin in the party, why not have him as the party leader? (You'll get some unique dialog options as well, since Paladins automatically realize the true nature of disguised/shapeshifted evil creatures.)
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Jul 15, 2014 22:49
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You could smush the fighter and the cleric into one character. The two classes have nice synergy, and I think 5 characters is the perfect number -- you'll level slightly faster, but won't lose noticeable firepower. Otherwise, your party is quite similar to mine : Bard Fighter->Druid Fighter->Mage Fighter/Thief Ranger/Cleric (don't think this is as OP as in Baldur's Gate; he only seems to get the druid spells his ranger levels allow him)
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Jul 15, 2014 23:03
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Wolfsheim posted:I'm setting up a new playthrough of Icewind Dale because I never beat it on my now-defunct PC, and BGEE is giving my woefully outdated graphics card some issues. The first GameFAQ document I browsed for general tips suggested a team of five F/M/Cs and one F/M/T, which isn't important, but I thought it was hilarious that someone was autistic enough to think that was a good party composition. Anyway, here's what I'm thinking: I forgot most of the loot for IWD1 but I think a huge chunk of it is random drops and not guaranteed to show up in every playthrough. Because of that I always liked to have as much group diversity as possible, in not just class and weapon proficiencies, but alignment and race too. I seem to remember a fair amount of loot that was restricted to a specific race/alignment. Not a ton, but enough to make me want to diversify the party. It's not really necessary to do this though, just my preference. Although I think the best loot in the game was usually the pre-set drops that you get in every playthrough. The best weapon in the game was the Paladin Holy Sword and although it was pre-set, it was pretty drat easy to miss without a walkthrough. If I remember right it's a longsword in IWD, not a 2hander like BG2.
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Jul 15, 2014 23:39
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Yeah, it's a longsword, and it not only starts identified (so no unidentified magic item graphic to give it away), but it uses the same icon as the regular, non-magical longsword. It's INCREDIBLY easy to miss it.
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Jul 15, 2014 23:57
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Taliesyn posted:Yeah, it's a longsword, and it not only starts identified (so no unidentified magic item graphic to give it away), but it uses the same icon as the regular, non-magical longsword. It's INCREDIBLY easy to miss it. So there you go. Make the Paladin use longswords and make your other warrior use some other weapon. Axes or Halberds maybe (since druids/clerics cant use them). You really don't want to have two party members be dependent on the same type of weapon. Its not like BG where 90% of the good gear was a longsword or two handed sword and your fighter is totally gimped if he can't use either one. IWD loot is far more balanced. I'd probably pick two weapon types for each party member and just stick with that.
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Jul 16, 2014 00:23
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Taliesyn posted:Yeah, it's a longsword, and it not only starts identified (so no unidentified magic item graphic to give it away), but it uses the same icon as the regular, non-magical longsword. It's INCREDIBLY easy to miss it. Also the fact it's hidden literally inside a wall.
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Jul 16, 2014 01:27
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GuyDudeBroMan posted:EE NPC's are easily the equivalent of any of the original NPC's. They aren't better, they aren't worse, they are the exact same in terms of quality. I have to disagree here. The EE NPCs stick out like a sore thumb because they have storylines in BG1 and quests in ToB. And Hexxat is absolutely loving terrible in every single way. Dorn, Neera and Rashaad are all fine but you can really tell they've had more time put into them than any of the original NPCs. If you were playing for the first time ever you'd wonder why you're doing so much for them but say...Imoen hasn't got anything that's even close even though she's your sister. In other news I played IWD1 through recently, installing from my original disks. The game was vaguely sped up because it was running on a PC that didn't really exist when it was out and it was pretty amazing. Then I tried IWD2 and it essentially didn't work. For some reason at random times it chugs and it makes it impossibly annoying to play. I don't see why the first game would run so well and the second so badly! I still remember having huge difficulties fighting against the final two bosses in IWD2 as well, I'm shocked that anyone could win the game with only 4 characters. I guess it required tactics that my 16 year old self wasn't able to master.
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Jul 16, 2014 02:52
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Taear posted:In other news I played IWD1 through recently, installing from my original disks. The game was vaguely sped up because it was running on a PC that didn't really exist when it was out and it was pretty amazing. Then I tried IWD2 and it essentially didn't work. For some reason at random times it chugs and it makes it impossibly annoying to play. I don't see why the first game would run so well and the second so badly!
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Jul 16, 2014 03:19
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Taear posted:I have to disagree here. The EE NPCs stick out like a sore thumb because they have storylines in BG1 Correct. They are BG2 quality NPC's in BG1 which means they are 100% better than every BG1 NPC in every way possible. They have a storyline, they banter with each other, they banter with the PC, they comment on the plot. They do everything BG2 npcs do, except they do it in BG1. quote:and quests in ToB. True. Their quests are a lot better than the standard BG2 NPC quests (which are hardly quests at all) quote:And Hexxat is absolutely loving terrible in every single way. Eh... she feels pretty drat fun so far. I haven't taken her very far yet though. The worst part about GB2EE Npc's is Dorn's over the top gay romance. That poo poo is insane. It's like the worst nightmare of the homophobic jock who doesn't want to allow a gay guy on the football team because he is afraid the gay guy is going to try and hit on him constantly and grab his dick in the locker room no matter how many times he makes it clear hes not gay. PROTIP Beamdog: Real life gay guys don't actually behave this way. (Although super alpha male, half-orc, blackguard gay guys? Ok maybe those are different. Who knows?)
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Jul 16, 2014 03:24
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zedprime posted:I think they bent the engine over backwards to make cool things happen with the graphics drivers of the time combined with an old janky engine. The result of which being they used a lot of hacks that were fine with hardware and software of the time but just break things on anything modern. I forget what the non-gog solution is, I think there might be a patch to make software rendering work better? Or it might just work out of the box? There is a patch but it didn't really sort anything. It took me absolutely forever just to get the game to actually run and it's one of those games that doesn't uninstall properly - when you do it and put the disk back in, install becomes play unless you mess around with config files. Without the patch, running right from my original disk it crashes when it shows the character paperdolls. It's a shame. There's a lot in IWD2 I liked. Things like the huge variety of different voices you could give your characters, the Cleric domains and also the subraces. I've tried to power through with the lag but it's just far too annoying. It stands out even more after the perfect IWD1 run I had. For those playing through IWD1 the expansion content is gated and if you leave the expansion area you can NEVER go back. There's some huge new dungeon that comes with Trials of the Luremaster that I totally missed because I killed the last boss. Sometimes you forget that games used to lock you out of things forever. quote:True. Their quests are a lot better than the standard BG2 NPC quests (which are hardly quests at all) And Hexxat is a black lesbian vampire who has ridiculous over the top quests. There's not much more to say about her, because her characterisation is pretty poo poo and the fact of who she is barely even comes up. She's like that one person in your D&D group who demands to roleplay a half dragon with gigantic wings but the DM ignores it and nobody you ever meet mentions it even once. Spoilers for her quest. Her master is loving Larloch. No, really. Taear fucked around with this message at 03:35 on Jul 16, 2014 |
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Jul 16, 2014 03:28
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GuyDudeBroMan posted:(Although super alpha male, half-orc, blackguard gay guys? Ok maybe those are different. Who knows?) Taear posted:They have their own locations. That's what does it for me. There's no other NPC that has their own location to visit in the entire game, they all just re-purpose existing ones. And Hexxat tries to pass for human. It's not as if she tries to stand out. And good joinable NPCs complain about her so she isn't just ignored. Why does it matter it was Larloch? He has plenty of schemes running throughout the Forgotten Realms and he just shows up for 1 scene. I was amused by the cameo.
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Jul 16, 2014 03:49
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Basic Chunnel posted:I really wish the shapeshifter rebalance wasn't so cheesy. The stat adjustments are plenty powerful and I'm happy with them but turning the wereform into a weapon slot item is horrifically overpowered (you should have to trade off casting ability for melee ability, that's typically the whole point of druid shifting in general) and really silly in that it allows you to go between humanoid and wolf forms at will, so you can run in and maul stuff then instantly become a human, throw some darts, then instantly become a werewolf again. All you'd need to do to fix the stats would be to adjust the CRE file referenced by the spell, right? Why not just do that? Turns out it doesn't actually work that way for reasons that are unclear to me. Changing the referenced CRE file doesn't work, somehow. That's why all the solutions to the Shapeshifter issue are hacky to some extent. I don't remember exactly what the problem is but I distinctly remember changing the .CRE files myself, since I had the same thought as you, and it just not working properly. e: Oh, I remember now, the Polymorph opcode just doesn't loving work properly, so immunities and resistances and stuff don't get applied to the character (e.g. shapeshifting into an Iron Golem doesn't give you the proper weapon immunities) John McCain fucked around with this message at 04:12 on Jul 16, 2014 |
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Jul 16, 2014 04:08
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Factor_VIII posted:Why do you think it's a bad thing that they have new areas and longer quests? Considering the fact that we were asked to rebuy the same game, the more new content the merrier. I guess one could argue that having the new areas and quests tied to NPCs that have to join your group is a problem (and I would agree), but it's perfectly possible to have every NPC join your party, do all their quests and then kick them out in BG1, BG2 and ToB. I didn't say it was bad. I said that it makes them different from the original characters because the person I originally replied to said they're essentially the same. They're not the same because so much more work has gone into the four of them compared to any character in the game. What it makes me want is for EVERY character to have the same, it's a shame it isn't possible. Good joinable NPCs do comment and you get a single line from Bodhi, but so much of the main quest is focused around fighting vampires that she generally feels silly to have around. The cameo in Neera's quest bothered me too. While I know the Bhaalspawn is a pretty powerful character it always feels strange having "celebrities" turn up with the exception of Elminster. And again it ties into the new characters getting things that the normal characters wouldn't dream of.
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Jul 16, 2014 04:15
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Taear posted:The cameo in Neera's quest bothered me too. While I know the Bhaalspawn is a pretty powerful character it always feels strange having "celebrities" turn up with the exception of Elminster. And again it ties into the new characters getting things that the normal characters wouldn't dream of.
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Jul 16, 2014 04:21
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Factor_VIII posted:Personally I don't mind. After all, Neera's entire questline was tied to the Red Wizards, so the party running into Szass Tam and fighting him didn't seem like a bad thing. I guess when it comes down to it I feel having level 30 liches floating about and having the rulers of places turn up is a bit too much for a general campaign. Just going to Thay is enough, it doesn't need that extra level. It's like if Fzoul Chembryl turned up just because the Zhentarim are in the game. And the Drizzt ones are pretty silly too!
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Jul 16, 2014 04:26
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Taear posted:I guess when it comes down to it I feel having level 30 liches floating about and having the rulers of places turn up is a bit too much for a general campaign. Just going to Thay is enough, it doesn't need that extra level. Better to have powerful named NPCs appear rather equally powerful NPCs who nobody has ever heard of and who have had no effect in the world. (That makes me think of that high level army the party fights in ToB. One almost wonders how that country didn't take over the world if their soldiers were this powerful.  )
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Jul 16, 2014 04:38
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GuyDudeBroMan posted:I forgot most of the loot for IWD1 but I think a huge chunk of it is random drops and not guaranteed to show up in every playthrough. Because of that I always liked to have as much group diversity as possible, in not just class and weapon proficiencies, but alignment and race too. I seem to remember a fair amount of loot that was restricted to a specific race/alignment. Not a ton, but enough to make me want to diversify the party. It's not really necessary to do this though, just my preference. Paladin Holy Avenger Cera Sumat is from IWD2. I don't remember there being one in IWD1.
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Jul 16, 2014 09:11
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Disco Infiva posted:Paladin Holy Avenger Cera Sumat is from IWD2. I don't remember there being one in IWD1. There is. It's called Pale Justice, and you find it on a body in a little house in the Umber Hulk/Malavon area in Lower Dorn's Deep. It's extremely easy to miss.
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Jul 16, 2014 09:29
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Ginette Reno posted:There is. It's called Pale Justice, and you find it on a body in a little house in the Umber Hulk/Malavon area in Lower Dorn's Deep. It's extremely easy to miss.  I think I need to replay this game.
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Jul 16, 2014 09:38
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Hexxat is almost as bad as Saerileth and this isn't a jokepost.
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Jul 16, 2014 10:42
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Factor_VIII posted:(That makes me think of that high level army the party fights in ToB. One almost wonders how that country didn't take over the world if their soldiers were this powerful. This is a thing that always bugs me about epic level DnD. It's like in MOTB where you go to Thay and fight... gnolls? Alright then. Sure are some godlike gnolls hanging around here
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Jul 16, 2014 11:15
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Taear posted:Dorn, Neera and Rashaad are all fine but you can really tell they've had more time put into them than any of the original NPCs. If you were playing for the first time ever you'd wonder why you're doing so much for them but say...Imoen hasn't got anything that's even close even though she's your sister. To be entirely fair, Imoen was supposed to be dead.
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Jul 16, 2014 11:20
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Basic Chunnel posted:To be entirely fair, Imoen was supposed to be dead. I know. I just used her as an example because her name is easier to spell! quote:I think it makes sense for rulers and really powerful entities to be interested when what's practically a demigod and his almost equally powerful companions start gallivanting across their domains.
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Jul 16, 2014 12:05
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I don't much mind Hexxat from a writing perspective - there is definitely a bit of Mary Sue flavor in there, in that she's a CNPC vampire who doesn't strictly adhere to her alignment (does not pick fights and genuinely wants to gain allies in the party, but is said to drain innocent people and clearly doesn't care), but the alignment system ought to be rebelled against in any event, and her characterization and writing is generally strong enough. Bodhi is a strong enough case for vampires retaining their sentience and will after being turned, so if Hexxat was turned against her will and is ambivalent about it, I can roll with that. What's actually obnoxious are the convoluted mechanics and trinkets that facilitate her abilities. Just let us resurrect her like a normal CNPC. Reminds me of a modder I once talked to who was planning on turning his mod NPC into an incredibly weak version of herself through most of BG2 (so that the PC would have to protect her, see) then into a choice-recording phylactory item through most of ToB only for her to emerge as a demigodess in the ToB endgame and obliterate the party if they hadn't been good. Aside: i've been having a lot of fun with a shadowdancer 10 / Fighter X dual class build. It's not overpowered by any means (in pure munchkin terms it probably sucks) but it basically allows you to be the skirmish fighter that none of the other 2E kits and classes permit. You don't have the HP or AC to last in a straight-up brawl but unlike regular fighter/thieves or (or monks, who usually filled the role in 3E) you actually have the (non-magical) means to slip the net and make defenders scramble. As a harasser / sniper it's an ideal build. Drop into stealth, backstab a Mage, hit a mini-time stop, move to someone else, get out of LOS or just stand there in hiding, and repeat. The cooldown upon leaving stealth means that an unwise PC can still get ganged up on / hit with a quick spell (another fun feature of combat hiding is that enemies will waste targeted spells mid-casting, the shadowdancer-fighter is a great troll build) / worn down by archers. Backstabbing at 3x isn't ridiculous but it allows for good spikes / pre-emptive Mage retirement and somewhat makes up for the lost damage potential from a pure fighter class. I'm not sure if it scales well into ToB (assuming not) but getting boots of haste in the Planar Prison, then running in circles around everyone and single-handedly clearing rooms with Belm and full single weapon proficiency is just a ton of fun and it doesn't quite feel like cheating. I recommend it! If nothing else it's probably good practice for the Pillars of Eternity Rogue class, which is supposed to fulfill a similar function. Basic Chunnel fucked around with this message at 12:21 on Jul 16, 2014 |
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Jul 16, 2014 12:16
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ANIME MONSTROSITY posted:Hexxat is almost as bad as Saerileth and this isn't a jokepost. I only vaguely know about Saerileth (even when I was a sixteen year old teenager I knew she was way too weird) and the only mod NPC I've ever really played with was Fade, who was kind of neat, and I have no intention of using the new BG:EE NPCs for a while, so... details!
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Jul 16, 2014 12:42
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Disco Infiva posted:
Note that if you use IWD Unfinished Business, you have to finish a quest involving a Voice for Pale Justice to be available.
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Jul 16, 2014 19:37
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My main problem with Hexxat is that she doesn't need to be a vampire. Her writing is good and her quest is fun, a straight graverobbing theif NPC would've been great and would've fit really well with the original content. I haven't played the ToB portion of her quest but in SoA her vampirism isn't very central to her story at all and in most ways it just makes her stick out and not mesh with the original game content. Given that the other vampires in the game aren't very far above mindless ghouls, having a vampire NPC who is more or less human in her actions doesn't work very well. And if she had to be a vampire it would also make so much more sense for her to be involved with Bodhi/the vampires already there, like every single other vampire in the city. The way she's almost entirely separate makes her feel like she's been tacked on (which she has). If she has to be a vampire, why she couldn't have been chilling in Bodhi's lair, or even outside Bodhi's lair, I don't know. If you were to strip out all the vampire stuff I think she would've been a really great NPC.
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Jul 16, 2014 23:37
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netcat posted:This is a thing that always bugs me about epic level DnD. It's like in MOTB where you go to Thay and fight... gnolls? Alright then. Sure are some godlike gnolls hanging around here I think this kind of thing is where you are supposed to remember that levels aren't "real" so you have the ridiculously powerful guards in ToB or whatever, they are just that powerful because of the power the player has. Story-wise they are just some tough dudes, same as guards everywhere. Same with the Drow in the Underdark, if every Drow ever was level 15 or whatever they are then when Viconia escaped she would have taken over the world in BG1. Also regarding Hexxat I don't get why she isn't a Shadowdancer or something, anything less useless than a vanilla single class thief.
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Jul 17, 2014 00:58
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Once she gets adequate utility skills you can go about cultivating her trapsetting ability. Pureclass traps are pretty solid.
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Jul 17, 2014 01:06
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Basic Chunnel posted:Once she gets adequate utility skills you can go about cultivating her trapsetting ability. Pureclass traps are pretty solid. Spike trap will kill ANYTHING that starts off non-hostile. I cheesed the final battle by putting a few down in ToB, it's wonderful.
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Jul 17, 2014 01:14
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Is there an improved tougher Irenicus fight mod that doesn't make him stupidly overpowered and boring? The end battle of SOA is incredibly underwhelming if you have even 1 single level of TOB skills. It's pretty obvious it was balanced for the SOA level cap and having TOB installed makes it anticlimactic as hell. Like even if you refuse to touch Watchers Keep in SOA (which everyone should do, other than the 1st floor for the potion box), you still end up getting at least 2 or 3 TOB levels from just the vanilla SOA content alone. I don't want a mod that makes the final battle stupid and lame, just "slightly harder" and I've never found one. Why can't mod makers ever be subtle? It's like every time they add a new NPC it has to be leaps and bounds better than any existing NPC. ("20+ in all stats? Perfect!!!") All the new weapons and armor they add are stupidly overpowered too and the encounters they add are insanely hard, way beyond the difficulty curve of the rest of the game. Why can't they just make something middle of the road like a +2 item and some level 10 bad guys? Why does it have to be so loving extreme every time?
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Jul 17, 2014 01:25
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