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http://edition.cnn.com/2014/07/15/justice/texas-jose-vargas-detained/quote:Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist and undocumented immigrant Jose Antonio Vargas suspected he wouldn't get out. Don't really have much to add, except that CBP domestic checkpoints are ridiculous.
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# ? Jul 15, 2014 23:16 |
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# ? May 15, 2024 03:51 |
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Did he apply for DACA or not? If he's applied, he'll likely get released once someone high up enough refuses to prosecute. If not, he's in genuine trouble and extremely dumb. e: never mind, already released as per CNN. Well, that was quick.
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# ? Jul 15, 2014 23:27 |
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Adar posted:Did he apply for DACA or not? I think he's too old, although he's 33 so he can't have missed the cutoff by much.
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# ? Jul 15, 2014 23:30 |
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Okay, read up on him a bit and yeah as the most visible undocumented guy in the country he's protected enough to get away with that. If anyone reading this is in the same situation or remotely close, do not do what he just did. I say this as an ex-nonprofit immigration lawyer: there are ways to practice civil disobedience that don't have permanent consequences, but this is not one of them and he was incredibly lucky.
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# ? Jul 15, 2014 23:37 |
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Adar posted:Okay, read up on him a bit and yeah as the most visible undocumented guy in the country he's protected enough to get away with that. If anyone reading this is in the same situation or remotely close, do not do what he just did. I say this as an ex-nonprofit immigration lawyer: there are ways to practice civil disobedience that don't have permanent consequences, but this is not one of them and he was incredibly lucky. I don't think he had much of a choice. They've been setting up border patrol checkpoints north of the RGV lately, which limits the options on how to leave here. Like Vargas said, undocumented people are pretty much trapped.
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# ? Jul 16, 2014 00:19 |
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Cercadelmar posted:I don't think he had much of a choice. They've been setting up border patrol checkpoints north of the RGV lately, which limits the options on how to leave here. Like Vargas said, undocumented people are pretty much trapped. That's the point, we are trying to detect them and deport them. Of course, it is stupid that we set up checkpoints when we could just make it impossible to get a job or enroll in school as an illegal immigrant, which would wipe out the problem neatly.
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# ? Jul 16, 2014 02:06 |
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on the left posted:That's the point, we are trying to detect them and deport them. Of course, it is stupid that we set up checkpoints when we could just make it impossible to get a job or enroll in school as an illegal immigrant, which would wipe out the problem neatly. It's sort of a bullshit opinion that we should deny kids an education because their parents crossed a line on a map without permission.
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# ? Jul 16, 2014 02:38 |
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You know the illegal immigration problem is getting serious media attention when The Atlantic starts publishing anti-immigration articles: http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/07/an-immigration-crisis-we-brought-on-ourselves/374491/#comments
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# ? Jul 16, 2014 03:32 |
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Real hurthling! posted:It's sort of a bullshit opinion that we should deny kids an education because their parents crossed a line on a map without permission. The better we get at stopping the parents, the less and less we will have the problem in the first place. Also, presumably there is education in the country we are sending them back to. It's a slap in the face that I have to pay thousands of dollars to bring my spouse over while USCIS refuses to enforce the immigration laws we have. on the left fucked around with this message at 03:43 on Jul 16, 2014 |
# ? Jul 16, 2014 03:40 |
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sincx posted:You know the illegal immigration problem is getting serious media attention when The Atlantic starts publishing anti-immigration articles: Let's check out that who's in that byline there... Oh.
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# ? Jul 16, 2014 03:43 |
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on the left posted:It's a slap in the face that I have to pay thousands of dollars to bring my spouse over while USCIS refuses to enforce the immigration laws we have. The real slap in the face is that you have to pay thousands of dollars to bring your spouse over.
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# ? Jul 16, 2014 04:16 |
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enraged_camel posted:The real slap in the face is that you have to pay thousands of dollars to bring your spouse over. Yeah instead of complaining try cheating the system like everybody else until you have the following train of thought: "oh living life as an undocumented immigrant is actually worse than a one time fee for residency?" "oh how bad and uncool i have been for thinking migrant workers and unaccompanied minors get a free ride"
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# ? Jul 16, 2014 04:23 |
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on the left posted:The better we get at stopping the parents, the less and less we will have the problem in the first place. Also, presumably there is education in the country we are sending them back to. I agree, anyone who shows up to the border should be allowed in legally without having to pay thousands of dollars. America is a nation of immigrants and should remain open to all comers.
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# ? Jul 16, 2014 04:26 |
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e: nm
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# ? Jul 16, 2014 04:27 |
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Chantilly Say posted:I agree, anyone who shows up to the border should be allowed in legally without having to pay thousands of dollars. America is a nation of immigrants and should remain open to all comers. It's nice to see republicans have run with the idea of accelerationism to bring down the welfare system. Real hurthling! posted:Yeah instead of complaining try cheating the system like everybody else until you have the following train of thought: It's bullshit that we treat illegal immigrants with kid gloves, but come down ruthlessly on people who try their best to follow the laws. H1Bs are kicked out of the country with 7 days notice while illegal immigrants can just Costanza their way into staying permanently. on the left fucked around with this message at 04:41 on Jul 16, 2014 |
# ? Jul 16, 2014 04:36 |
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Civil disobedience sort of loses its punch when all you prove is that when you're famous laws don't apply to you.
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# ? Jul 16, 2014 04:45 |
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Chantilly Say posted:I agree, anyone who shows up to the border should be allowed in legally without having to pay thousands of dollars. America is a nation of immigrants and should remain open to all comers. Right, paying thousands of dollars makes sense, until you realize that the vast majority of that money goes to support an insane and xenophobic bureaucracy that is under a lot of pressure to turn as many people away as possible, even if they are qualified. If they appointed me to redesign the system from scratch, I'd make the whole thing project-based. Want to become part of American society? Then make some real contributions to it such as a few thousand hours of community service or helping rebuild the country's crumbling infrastructure. Immigrants of past generations built the country from the ground up, today's prospective immigrants can help expand and maintain it to earn their place in it. The government can pay them a fair wage during their employment and in the end reward them with residency and citizenship.
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# ? Jul 16, 2014 04:51 |
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enraged_camel posted:Right, paying thousands of dollars makes sense, until you realize that the vast majority of that money goes to support an insane and xenophobic bureaucracy that is under a lot of pressure to turn as many people away as possible, even if they are qualified. Even if you have relatively open borders for workers, you want to restrict who can come in and you want to be able to enforce those laws. Otherwise you end up with situations like my cousin from Guatemala, who is a literal rapist (with one confirmed rape of a family member) residing illegally in the US. He got picked up for a DUI and through gross negligence of the US government at multiple levels, he was put right back on the street. No government wants people like him, and all immigration systems should be designed to catch and deport people like that.
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# ? Jul 16, 2014 05:15 |
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enraged_camel posted:Right, paying thousands of dollars makes sense, until you realize that the vast majority of that money goes to support an insane and xenophobic bureaucracy that is under a lot of pressure to turn as many people away as possible, even if they are qualified. Actually the whole thing with USCIS is that they're self funded by those fees - they didn't stop work during the shutdown but they're chronically understaffed.
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# ? Jul 16, 2014 05:42 |
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on the left posted:It's bullshit that we treat illegal immigrants with kid gloves, but come down ruthlessly on people who try their best to follow the laws. H1Bs are kicked out of the country with 7 days notice while illegal immigrants can just Costanza their way into staying permanently. The alien visa situations combined with the massive massive [up to 20 years] backlog in green card processing for legal aliens and relatives of us citizens is crazy. I've had friends who were here for almost 10 years waiting for their green card until they got laid off or just gave up and moved back to their home country. People who paid 100,000's worth of taxes over the years while here in the US, they get a gap in employment or can't find a job to fill the gap asap, and boom, sorry your green card application is toast, sorry for the multi-year wait but if you do come back you'll have to start all over again. No one is even mentioning this with "immigration reform" currently. The current system is overloaded with legal aliens as it is, now you want to add a few million illegals in addition to the current caseload? I mean.. holy crap. They'll need to expand USCIS by an order of magnitude. A quick fix would be to have work visas have a maximum of 3 years, after that you get an automatic green card. Thanks for paying into the system for 3 years and being a decent person contributing to the country, welcome to the US. That would kill a lot of visa abuses you see rampant in the system. Many of the top H1B users are Indian Tech firms hiring Indian nationals to work in their US offices knowing they can get away with absolute murder since their workforce is under constant threat of being sent home if they don't do what they are told... although that's honestly the case with most visas, even though most of them are portable and allow you to change jobs. Big K of Justice fucked around with this message at 11:23 on Jul 16, 2014 |
# ? Jul 16, 2014 11:19 |
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on the left posted:That's the point, we are trying to detect them and deport them. Of course, it is stupid that we set up checkpoints when we could just make it impossible to get a job or enroll in school as an illegal immigrant, which would wipe out the problem neatly. I don't agree with the idea that these people are a problem to be solved. We can chat anecdotes all day, but fact is that most undocumented citizens come looking to find work and stay out of trouble.
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# ? Jul 16, 2014 11:25 |
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on the left posted:It's bullshit that we treat illegal immigrants with kid gloves, but come down ruthlessly on people who try their best to follow the laws. H1Bs are kicked out of the country with 7 days notice while illegal immigrants can just Costanza their way into staying permanently. Maybe no one should get kicked out of the country, particularly since H1B visas are a scam to give employers more power anyway...?
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# ? Jul 16, 2014 11:58 |
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Cercadelmar posted:I don't agree with the idea that these people are a problem to be solved. We can chat anecdotes all day, but fact is that most undocumented citizens come looking to find work and stay out of trouble. Immigration reform shouldn't be done by choosing to ignore immigration law, and when you have illegal immigration, you give up the ability to control who lives in your country.
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# ? Jul 16, 2014 13:29 |
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on the left posted:Immigration reform shouldn't be done by choosing to ignore immigration law, and when you have illegal immigration, you give up the ability to control who lives in your country. The problem is that legal immigration is practically impossible. The departments are laughably underfunded and the queues are decades long. This is even if you're the "right" kind of immigrant. Our immigration laws are fundamentally broken and our immigration system is thoroughly ridiculous.
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# ? Jul 16, 2014 13:34 |
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on the left posted:Immigration reform shouldn't be done by choosing to ignore immigration law, and when you have illegal immigration, you give up the ability to control who lives in your country. Who do you think should live in our country?
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# ? Jul 16, 2014 13:37 |
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ToxicSlurpee posted:The problem is that legal immigration is practically impossible. The departments are laughably underfunded and the queues are decades long. This is even if you're the "right" kind of immigrant. Our immigration laws are fundamentally broken and our immigration system is thoroughly ridiculous. The places where the queues are decades long are places where we've already taken in a disproportionate amount of immigrants, so even if we vastly expanded immigration, there's no real reason to cut lines in those countries. Immigration to the US shouldn't be just comprised of China, India, and Mexico. Cercadelmar posted:Who do you think should live in our country? People with exceptional skills and people from countries with roughly reciprocal immigration policies towards the US. If your country denies visas to US citizens, prepare to see your petitions denied. Also, in general, we should put people with college degrees at the front of the line. It should be basically impossible to immigrate to the US without a high school education, and we should be proactively stealing graduates from countries who invested a lot of money in making them. on the left fucked around with this message at 13:53 on Jul 16, 2014 |
# ? Jul 16, 2014 13:50 |
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The problem with open immigration is that it would be used to drive wages even further down. I don't think that the average American can compete on wages with someone from another country with the cost of our education being as high as it is. But we should vastly increase the amount of people allowed in. I like the idea of having to invest in the country in some way, whether financially or with your time. This would allow so called "non-skilled" labor into the country in a fair manner, instead of denying them outright. While also helping to fix our infastructure. America is nowhere near full, the midwest has plenty of space. Oh, and eliminate any kind of visa that doesn't lead to citizenship (and for that express purpose). Unless there's a way to stop funds being sent out of the country.
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# ? Jul 16, 2014 14:15 |
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I think that's indentured servitude you're proposing.
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# ? Jul 16, 2014 14:23 |
on the left posted:People with exceptional skills and people from countries with roughly reciprocal immigration policies towards the US. If your country denies visas to US citizens, prepare to see your petitions denied. Give me your skilled, your suburban, Your huddled masses yearning to take classes, The nerdy refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the clueless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my stamp beside the classroom door!
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# ? Jul 16, 2014 14:23 |
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Cercadelmar posted:I think that's indentured servitude you're proposing. Working a productive job for the US Government is indentured servitude? If Sweden offered road work for citizenship, I'd jump at the chance. (Do I really have to specify that they'd be paid? If so, yes. Of course they would.)
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# ? Jul 16, 2014 14:37 |
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Talmonis posted:The problem with open immigration is that it would be used to drive wages even further down. I don't think that the average American can compete on wages with someone from another country with the cost of our education being as high as it is. But we should vastly increase the amount of people allowed in. I like the idea of having to invest in the country in some way, whether financially or with your time. This would allow so called "non-skilled" labor into the country in a fair manner, instead of denying them outright. While also helping to fix our infastructure. America is nowhere near full, the midwest has plenty of space. Realtalk, a good immigration proposal that would be feasible is to allow cities/states to petition for their own allotment of visas. Anyone taking them would be required to maintain tax residence in the area for 3-5 years (covert to green card after). To make it more interesting, the people petitioning for these visas would be allowed to set their own requirements and national quotas. Something like this would produce some impressive statistics on the economics of immigration if a reasonable number of localities took up the offer.
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# ? Jul 16, 2014 14:37 |
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Talmonis posted:Working a productive job for the US Government is indentured servitude? If Sweden offered road work for citizenship, I'd jump at the chance. (Do I really have to specify that they'd be paid? If so, yes. Of course they would.) There's no way to guarantee this wouldn't just be another method of exploiting people desperate to emigrate. One of the biggest problems with how immigrant labor is used in America is the fact that without citizenship, people feel unable to defend themselves from abusive working environments. A common story around here is workers being threatened with deportation if they speak to the authorities about the conditions they work under.
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# ? Jul 16, 2014 14:50 |
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Cercadelmar posted:There's no way to guarantee this wouldn't just be another method of exploiting people desperate to emigrate. One of the biggest problems with how immigrant labor is used in America is the fact that without citizenship, people feel unable to defend themselves from abusive working environments. A common story around here is workers being threatened with deportation if they speak to the authorities about the conditions they work under. Under the private sector, I absolutely agree with you. But if it's a Federal (not state, as they can't be trusted) government program, it could be strictly regulated and handled properly.
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# ? Jul 16, 2014 15:00 |
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Talmonis posted:Under the private sector, I absolutely agree with you. But if it's a Federal (not state, as they can't be trusted) government program, it could be strictly regulated and handled properly. Not a very feasible idea. It would only take workers out of places dependent on immigrants, like agriculture and retail, and put them into infrastructure projects that are already done by the private sector. Also I don't see where women and children belong in the utopian transcontinental railroad that's been described.
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# ? Jul 16, 2014 15:43 |
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on the left posted:The places where the queues are decades long are places where we've already taken in a disproportionate amount of immigrants, so even if we vastly expanded immigration, there's no real reason to cut lines in those countries. Immigration to the US shouldn't be just comprised of China, India, and Mexico. Well actually there's a pretty good reason why China and India should ideally be where a large part of your immigrants come from.
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# ? Jul 16, 2014 15:49 |
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Cercadelmar posted:Not a very feasible idea. It would only take workers out of places dependent on immigrants, like agriculture and retail, and put them into infrastructure projects that are already done by the private sector. Perhaps those places should pay a proper wage, instead of relying on the desperate and afraid. Yes prices would go up, but they should go up. Subsidies should be shifted from corn and tobacco to more nutritious crops (never going to happen of course, like the rest of this). Women tend to work in America unless you're rich enough to live on a single income and have kids, or destitute enough to warrant welfare. Ideally, we aren't immigrating people who can't contribute to society. Workers, no matter how "unskilled" contribute to society just fine, before someone thinks I'm being some kind of monster. Children go to school in whatever local district they're in. Breaking up families is inhuman. It may not be feasible, but nothing is in the current climate of jingoist hatred and nativism.
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# ? Jul 16, 2014 16:26 |
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on the left posted:Immigration reform shouldn't be done by choosing to ignore immigration law, and when you have illegal immigration, you give up the ability to control who lives in your country. I think the people with the drive and ability to get into the country illegally and stay here illegally are way better potential citizens.
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# ? Jul 16, 2014 16:36 |
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Talmonis posted:Perhaps those places should pay a proper wage, instead of relying on the desperate and afraid. Yes prices would go up, but they should go up. Subsidies should be shifted from corn and tobacco to more nutritious crops (never going to happen of course, like the rest of this). If we had the political capital to accomplish any of this, we could just remove all restrictions on immigration.
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# ? Jul 16, 2014 16:39 |
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SedanChair posted:If we had the political capital to accomplish any of this, we could just remove all restrictions on immigration. But why would we remove all restrictions? That could easily collapse the social programs we have, and drive wages into the dirt with a massive influx of cheap labor. Hell, you could have China or India up and send a few million people over to gently caress with the political system in their favor. Nations would start sending their most destitute, their criminals and their disabled, simply to be rid of them. Restrictions do have a purpose, even if the current purpose is a lovely one.
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# ? Jul 16, 2014 16:45 |
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# ? May 15, 2024 03:51 |
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Talmonis posted:Perhaps those places should pay a proper wage, instead of relying on the desperate and afraid. Yes prices would go up, but they should go up. Subsidies should be shifted from corn and tobacco to more nutritious crops (never going to happen of course, like the rest of this). I never mentioned price hikes, I think you've misinterpreted why I think this is a dumb idea. My problem is that the government doesn't have a shortage of skilled people willing to do work on infrastructure, or whatever you're proposing. The reason infrastructure isn't maintained is because of a lack of funding, not labor. on the left posted:It's a slap in the face that I have to pay thousands of dollars to bring my spouse over while USCIS refuses to enforce the immigration laws we have. What makes your spouse so special that they deserve citizenship more than the people already living and working here?
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# ? Jul 16, 2014 17:48 |