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First, sorry for losing my temper with something and someone IRL last night that I couldn't actually lose my temper with, and taking it out on this messageboard instead.Roland Jones posted:Well, apparently he's willing to share the details of the emails he got with Zak and/or Pundit (can't remember which said that Mearls told him he was A-OK and received no proof of harassment) Second, this needs to stop. "We looked into it and didn't find anything substantial" as a one sentence comment is not the same as "Here are all the emails that we were sent about you. Please see attached".
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Jul 17, 2014 11:14
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neonchameleon posted:Second, this needs to stop. "We looked into it and didn't find anything substantial" as a one sentence comment is not the same as "Here are all the emails that we were sent about you. Please see attached". This here has me doubting your intention to change, as you not only are putting words in my mouth, you are still actively defending Mearls and co. Zak apparently claimed that Mearls told him that there was absolutely no proof in any of the emails he received that he was guilty of anything, which is not only discussing the emails from victims of abuse with the abuser and thus lovely in and of itself, but is enabling him and encouraging him to further shittiness by showing that he can get away with what he does. Even assuming that he didn't share a single thing beyond that none of the proof was good enough for him (which is unlikely because he freely shared more than that with people he isn't even working with when they emailed him, including naming people whose stories had been relayed to him, as well as explicitly confirming his stance that he does not think Zak or Pundit have done anything wrong, among other things), he is a hypocrite and what I said absolutely applies here. Roland Jones fucked around with this message at 11:52 on Jul 17, 2014 |
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Jul 17, 2014 11:39
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neonchameleon posted:Second, this needs to stop. "We looked into it and didn't find anything substantial" as a one sentence comment is not the same as "Here are all the emails that we were sent about you. Please see attached". With context, this is even worse because Zak's history of turning every single scrap of information that falls into his hands into ammunition for arguments is not exactly well hidden or unknown. In saying that, Mearls is giving him carte blanche to repeat whatever he has already done, including things that people are clearly uncomfortable with. I mean, there's seriously no other way to interpret that - Mearls is straight up saying that the harassment claims are without merit and that he doesn't consider any of that activity enough to matter to him.
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Jul 17, 2014 11:42
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To my knowledge, based on Zak's assertions, Mearls told him that he'd received no evidence that he'd said anything outright bigoted. I haven't seen any declarations that Mearls said they didn't do anything wrong, at least not from a source I would believe. Keeping Zak posted and letting him use it as a weapon to poo poo-talk people with was not a great idea, and if the SA thing is real and came about because he's been investigating reports of harassment and abuse by consulting the abusers that is also pretty dumb, but as far as I know he hasn't shared any details with Zak or his buddies. neonchameleon sucks though. 
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Jul 17, 2014 12:14
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Roland Jones posted:Your second point there has me doubting the veracity of your intention to change, as you not only are putting words in my mouth, you are still actively defending Mearls and co. Zak apparently claimed that Mearls told him that there was absolutely no proof in any of the emails he received that he was guilty of anything, which is not only discussing the emails from victims of abuse with the abuser and thus lovely in and of itself, but is enabling him and encouraging him to further shittiness by showing that he can get away with what he does. Even assuming that he didn't share a single thing beyond that none of the proof was good enough for him (which is unlikely because he freely shared more than that with people he isn't even working with when they emailed him, including naming people whose stories had been relayed to him, as well as explicitly confirming his stance that he does not think Zak or Pundit have done anything wrong, among other things), he is a hypocrite and what I said absolutely applies here. What you said was that "he's willing to share the details of the emails he got". Saying you said this is not putting words into your mouth. Details does not mean overall impressions and outcomes. It means details. In other words contents. That is not putting words into your mouth, it is using the plain English meaning of your words. Now I agree with both you and Chaotic Neutral that it is something that he shouldn't have done. The result was wrong. It will encourage ZakS and Pundit. This is a bad thing. Sharing the outcome of a harrassment investigation is also bad for the reasons outlined by Chaotic Neutral. That said, the most important details to keep confidential about harrassment investigations are the names unless those names go public of their own choice. There is no excuse at all for sharing them during any investigation. If Mearls has crossed that line it doesn't matter whether it's with involved or third parties. As for "actively defending Mearls and Co." does someone being lovely mean that you should be allowed to make up whatever poo poo you like about them?
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Jul 17, 2014 12:34
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If you're going to be Debate Disco Plutonis could you throw in some jokes tia.
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Jul 17, 2014 13:51
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Reminder that RPGSite has literal open MRA misogynists and once tried to collaborate on organized stalking of the owner of RPG.net out of revenge.
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Jul 17, 2014 13:57
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Also a reminder: regardless of what Mearls has or hasn't done with this investigation, this remains provably true: Mike Mearls has read the blogs of Pundit and Zak, and has decided that these are the kinds of people he wants front and centre of the new D&D:
These are the people Mearls wants to be exemplars and ambassadors for his game. Not Avery McDaldno. Not Jason Morningstar. Not Cam Banks or Fred Hicks or Rob Donoghue or any one of the upstanding and skilled game designers he could have picked. He chose a frothing lunatic and an alien robot programmed only to infuriate. gently caress the lot of them, and gently caress their lovely game.
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Jul 17, 2014 14:18
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I could do without the metanarrative on who is a shitlord for not condemning other shitlords enough. You guys can tie neon to a chair and make him confess he wears fedoras but it's not helping anything.Ettin posted:Just want to be clear while I'm back: This is about how I feel about this. Also the word filter. I keep having weird conversations with RPGnet people who like my posts but want to know if there's a way around it because it's loving weird.
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Jul 17, 2014 14:37
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potatocubed posted:These are the people Mearls wants to be exemplars and ambassadors for his game. Not Avery McDaldno. Not Jason Morningstar. Not Cam Banks or Fred Hicks or Rob Donoghue or any one of the upstanding and skilled game designers he could have picked.
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Jul 17, 2014 14:49
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I got a reply to the email I sent to Mike Mearls. From what he said, he's really thinking about the toxicity of the hobby and how to make it better. That leaves me wondering why he didn't think about that kind of thing, you know, over the past decade or so, but I guess it's a (small) step in the right direction.
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Jul 17, 2014 15:34
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Too bad his 'thinking about the toxicity of the hobby' doesn't consist of addressing his current gently caress-ups.
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Jul 17, 2014 15:36
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Ewen Cluney posted:I got a reply to the email I sent to Mike Mearls. From what he said, he's really thinking about the toxicity of the hobby and how to make it better. That leaves me wondering why he didn't think about that kind of thing, you know, over the past decade or so, but I guess it's a (small) step in the right direction. The way you phrased that makes it seem like he's really thinking about how to make the toxicity of the hobby even more toxic. Would not be surprised.
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Jul 17, 2014 15:37
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Fuego Fish posted:The way you phrased that makes it seem like he's really thinking about how to make the toxicity of the hobby even more toxic. Considering his steps to make D&D better this may just play right into our hands.
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Jul 17, 2014 15:42
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Halloween Jack posted:I could do without the metanarrative on who is a shitlord for not condemning other shitlords enough. You guys can tie neon to a chair and make him confess he wears fedoras but it's not helping anything. That sounds dangerously close to insufficiently revolutionary thinking, Comrade Poster. Perhaps a stay in one of the Mafia threads would correct your thinking?
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Jul 17, 2014 15:46
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Fuego Fish posted:The way you phrased that makes it seem like he's really thinking about how to make the toxicity of the hobby even more toxic.
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Jul 17, 2014 15:49
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I can't believe I'm feeling glad and progressive for jumping to loving Pathfinder already. And I should have been a slam dunk for this edition, what with the emphasis on the FR and everything.
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Jul 17, 2014 16:24
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As much as I might dislike Pathfinder as a system, Paizo seems to be about a thousand times more professional, courteous, and progressive than this D&D team (read: Mike Mearls) is.
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Jul 17, 2014 16:30
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Arivia posted:I can't believe I'm feeling glad and progressive for jumping to loving Pathfinder already. Seriously what hosed up bizzaro world is this where I find myself going 'huh glad we got into pathfinder for our 'older D&D' itch rather than Next. Mearls you fuckup you have me HAPPY I'm playing Pathfinder!
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Jul 17, 2014 16:40
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Remember when Paizo was the lovely company with dudes strapping mice to their wrist and poo poo? Ah, memories.
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Jul 17, 2014 16:42
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Glad I can just cut my hand off instead of losing the whole arm, this is great now!
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Jul 17, 2014 16:42
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Swagger Dagger posted:Glad I can just cut my hand off instead of losing the whole arm, this is great now! Yea man D&D is fuckin made of butts right now.
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Jul 17, 2014 16:43
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Mr. Maltose posted:Remember when Paizo was the lovely company with dudes strapping mice to their wrist and poo poo? No? Please tell that story.
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Jul 17, 2014 16:44
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Baron Snow posted:No? Please tell that story. A Paizo designer tied his mouse to his wrist by the cord in order to "test" if a strap tying your sword to your arm should let you recover from being disarmed as a swift or simple or whatever the gently caress the fastest action is. It was too hard for him to swing it into his hand, so he issued errata saying it took a longer action. Pathfinder loving sucks, maybe just don't play D&D at all. GURPS is right there. http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/books/dungeonfantasy/ long-ass nips Diane fucked around with this message at 16:48 on Jul 17, 2014 |
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Jul 17, 2014 16:46
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If you're serious, in their nonstop quest to make melee terrible, one of the Paizo devs spent 'most of a morning' tying his mouse cord to his wrist and trying to use it like a weapon chain. He could only do it somewhat, so they made weapon chains use a standard action instead of a quick one? Something of that sort. There's a picture about it that I'm sure someone will post shortly. Also apparently after this kinda blew up he tried to walk back on it and say it was a joke - but the rules change was staying.
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Jul 17, 2014 16:47
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Swagger Dagger posted:A Paizo designer tied his mouse to his wrist by the cord in order to "test" if a strap tying your sword to your arm should let you recover from being disarmed as a swift or simple or whatever the gently caress the fastest action is.
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Jul 17, 2014 16:49
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Ah yes, Red Orchestra Syndrome.
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Jul 17, 2014 16:52
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I don't know that one, might as well edit it in too. What did some game dev who thought he was a member of the Soviet army do?
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Jul 17, 2014 16:53
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Paizo designers are pretty terrible at the whole mechanics thing a lot of the time and tend to poo poo on melee too much, but I'd take that over the poo poo circus that Mearls is running at the moment. (I'd still prefer 4e for my D&D fix though)
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Jul 17, 2014 16:55
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It's the difference between being a bad designer and being a bad designer, basically.
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Jul 17, 2014 16:57
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Swagger Dagger posted:A Paizo designer tied his mouse to his wrist by the cord in order to "test" if a strap tying your sword to your arm should let you recover from being disarmed as a swift or simple or whatever the gently caress the fastest action is. Dungeon fantasy is pretty nifty
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Jul 17, 2014 16:57
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Swagger Dagger posted:
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Jul 17, 2014 16:58
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Captain Foo posted:Dungeon fantasy is pretty nifty Yes but then you're playing GURPS, which is even worse 
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Jul 17, 2014 16:59
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Man I am not a fan of GURPS either but can you lay off the dude for playing it? I swear someone is mocking someone else over liking GURPS every day around here, it isn't a crime to like a complicated system.
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Jul 17, 2014 17:01
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Realms fans should probably be like the third to last person in line to throw stones. Like they can be in front of Flame Princess fans, FATAL fans, and something else I'm invariably forgetting.
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Jul 17, 2014 17:02
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Synnibarr, maybe? Or for something that actually has fans somehow, Carcosa?
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Jul 17, 2014 17:04
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Swagger Dagger posted:Pathfinder loving sucks, maybe just don't play D&D at all. Dungeon World is right there. This.
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Jul 17, 2014 17:06
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Darksaber posted:Realms fans should probably be like the third to last person in line to throw stones. Like they can be in front of Flame Princess fans, FATAL fans, and something else I'm invariably forgetting. Eberron fans.
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Jul 17, 2014 17:07
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Swagger Dagger posted:A Paizo designer tied his mouse to his wrist by the cord in order to "test" if a strap tying your sword to your arm should let you recover from being disarmed as a swift or simple or whatever the gently caress the fastest action is. As opposed to just grabbing the cord and pulling it through his hand, mind, which even the least coordinated nerd could pull off in the space of two seconds.
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Jul 17, 2014 17:07
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13th Age, you goddamn filth.
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Jul 17, 2014 17:07
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