Planetside 2: This is Our Swamp [HOSSIN IS OUT]

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Planetside 2: This is Our Swamp [HOSSIN IS OUT]

Nakar: Sep 2, 2002; Ultima Ratio Regum

Oh hey, topical Forumside:

Forumside posted:

It is funny how the canister and the AH are the same.
The Mag PPA and the scythe PPA are the same.

But we have an explosive chain gun on our ESF but suddenly a super suck fury on our tank.
Why DONT we have a proper ES tank AI secondary?
We just have a sucky NS equivalent.

See guys the Light PPA and Air Hammer are exactly the same as the PPA/C85, so clearly they should let the Prowler mount a Banshee!

# ? Jul 17, 2014 18:47

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# ? Jun 2, 2024 16:09

Epic High Five: Jun 5, 2004

Mortimer posted:

see:

"NC/TR guns are OP and objectively better in many ways"
"That's our faction trait/why would VS get everything good?/They're just fine"
"PPA is OP no bullet drop waaaah"
"Nerf the PPA or give everyone else identical things."

EHF never disappoints

edit: Like...it's fine to have bias towards your primary faction. That's fine. I play VS I want VS to have the best stuff. But to pretend that you play all factions and want things to be perfectly balanced when really it's the exact opposite is

The Magrider argument is funny, because even IF either the main or secondaries on the Magrider were underperforming (hint: they aren't, they ALL outpeform every equivalent Vanguard gun at everything, except the Saron which is like 4% worse at AV), that's not how you balance these things because the PPA isn't cooked in. Hacksaws have worst in class uptime, so they should get their old magsize/damage/reload back obviously. The Phoenix has worst in class DPS BY FAR so it should be able to OHKO infantry out to 450m.

The no bullet drop isn't the confounding factor, in any case. It has a great velocity for a grenade launcher and would be easy as hell to guide even if it had drop. The confounding factor is the lack of bloom and bottomless, spammable magazines. Nothing that functions in an even remotely similar fashion has anything LIKE this combination, and it's not a coincidence that this is the case. SOE has been scaling back ALL mindless spammy HE AI farming options and the reason people are "suddenly" so mad is that it seems like the PPA is being given a pass for ??? reasons.

I don't want to take away your precious, dumb lack of bullet drop. I don't want to take away your mag size even (though I'd like a reload that reflected the DPM). I just want the PPA to get the same treatment the Saron got, for the same reasons, for the same cost/benefit.

The C85 will never, ever be competitive in its current form or anything like it. Stop suggesting "uhhh just buff that" and start suggesting things to actually change and then despair because a) it's already been done and failed or b) already exists and already doesn't work.

I don't mind the PPA. I hardly ever die to it, it tunnel visions people so bad that it greased the last couple hundred kills to my C4 auraxium quite nicely, and they're like peppermint treats to my AP/AP Vanguard. That doesn't mean it has a place in the current meta. It was pretty bland back when the gold standard was release era Liberators and Rocket pods killing squads in a single pass and blowing up shielded Vanguards with 4 rockets, but now that all the other competition has been knocked down it's the last man standing of an era of the game that needs to loving die already

It doesn't even need an overhaul. It only needs a rapidly expanding COF and good recoil recovery. That's it. Compared to what will probably end up happening to it, I'm for sure not trying to take your toy away from you guys

Nakar posted:

The C85 needs better spread (hang on, I'm going somewhere with this), explosive shells on impact (see?), and way more ammo in the can. Make it the shortest-ranged option but make it punk soloists, eviscerate crowds, and swat C4 fairies out of the air effortlessly. A C85 Harasser doing a drive-by of a Sunderer should leave behind nothing but scorch marks and tears.

The PPA needs a smaller magazine and an expanding COF. It can remain no-drop with its current damage, but it'll be slightly worse at PPA spamming from a zillion miles away.

The Marauder needs a larger magazine and slightly better feedback on where its shots are hitting, as its projectile is tiny and hard to see.

Really... that's all you need to do to put them about on par with each other. Whether they should any of them be that strong at all I don't know, that's another matter entirely, but if they intend to make tanks less good at farming infantry with the main guns then maybe it's OK (since the AI option trades away AV damage outright), provided they don't overnerf infantry AV.

Even as an Airhammer it would be poo poo. The Airhammer is a pretty lovely weapon propped up entirely by the mobility of the platform. It may work fine on a Harasser and maybe even a Vanguard IF if had like, 40+ in the mag w/ certs opening more up, but it's a shotgun so that will literally never happen because shotguns.

It'll get +2, no splash, and damage output dropped by 66%. Again

# ? Jul 17, 2014 18:54

Fierce Brosnan: Feb 16, 2010; I have seen into the future
Everyone is slightly older

Nakar posted:

Oh hey, topical Forumside:

See guys the Light PPA and Air Hammer are exactly the same as the PPA/C85, so clearly they should let the Prowler mount a Banshee!

Obviously they'd have to balance it, not just literally strap a Banshee on there. But why shouldn't the TR have a faction-flavoured rotary AI cannon, intead of a boring common-pool knock-off grenade launcher?

# ? Jul 17, 2014 18:59

novaSphere: Jan 25, 2003

If the Marauder was at all like the original PS1 Marauder mortar, then we'd be talking. It was basically a rapid-fire Bulldog without as much of a blast radius.

# ? Jul 17, 2014 19:00

Fart Car '97: Jul 23, 2003

Can we just take a moment to appreciate how awesome the Gauss SAW is? Because it's pretty loving awesome.

# ? Jul 17, 2014 19:07

Epic High Five: Jun 5, 2004

Fart Car '97 posted:

Can we just take a moment to appreciate how awesome the Gauss SAW is? Because it's pretty loving awesome.

Your entreaty shall find root in this soil, BROTHER

It is the grandest of family trees

edit - The autismsheet is updated

Epic High Five fucked around with this message at 19:17 on Jul 17, 2014

# ? Jul 17, 2014 19:13

eonwe: Aug 11, 2008; Lipstick Apathy

Lets all take the time to admit to ourselves that probably none of us know anything about actually balancing a game like Planetside 2 and we'd probably do a way worse job if we actually had to do it.

# ? Jul 17, 2014 19:28

BadLlama: Jan 13, 2006

Eonwe posted:

Lets all take the time to admit to ourselves that probably none of us know anything about actually balancing a game like Planetside 2 and we'd probably do a way worse job if we actually had to do it.

Yeah probably but at least I could finally give my NC max two giant Gauss Cannon arms for AI duty.

# ? Jul 17, 2014 19:32

lite_sleepr: Jun 3, 2003

Epic High Five posted:

The Magrider argument is funny, because even IF either the main or secondaries on the Magrider were underperforming (hint: they aren't, they ALL outpeform every equivalent Vanguard gun at everything, except the Saron which is like 4% worse at AV), that's not how you balance these things because the PPA isn't cooked in. Hacksaws have worst in class uptime, so they should get their old magsize/damage/reload back obviously. The Phoenix has worst in class DPS BY FAR so it should be able to OHKO infantry out to 450m.

The no bullet drop isn't the confounding factor, in any case. It has a great velocity for a grenade launcher and would be easy as hell to guide even if it had drop. The confounding factor is the lack of bloom and bottomless, spammable magazines. Nothing that functions in an even remotely similar fashion has anything LIKE this combination, and it's not a coincidence that this is the case. SOE has been scaling back ALL mindless spammy HE AI farming options and the reason people are "suddenly" so mad is that it seems like the PPA is being given a pass for ??? reasons.

I don't want to take away your precious, dumb lack of bullet drop. I don't want to take away your mag size even (though I'd like a reload that reflected the DPM). I just want the PPA to get the same treatment the Saron got, for the same reasons, for the same cost/benefit.

The C85 will never, ever be competitive in its current form or anything like it. Stop suggesting "uhhh just buff that" and start suggesting things to actually change and then despair because a) it's already been done and failed or b) already exists and already doesn't work.

I don't mind the PPA. I hardly ever die to it, it tunnel visions people so bad that it greased the last couple hundred kills to my C4 auraxium quite nicely, and they're like peppermint treats to my AP/AP Vanguard. That doesn't mean it has a place in the current meta. It was pretty bland back when the gold standard was release era Liberators and Rocket pods killing squads in a single pass and blowing up shielded Vanguards with 4 rockets, but now that all the other competition has been knocked down it's the last man standing of an era of the game that needs to loving die already

It doesn't even need an overhaul. It only needs a rapidly expanding COF and good recoil recovery. That's it. Compared to what will probably end up happening to it, I'm for sure not trying to take your toy away from you guys

Even as an Airhammer it would be poo poo. The Airhammer is a pretty lovely weapon propped up entirely by the mobility of the platform. It may work fine on a Harasser and maybe even a Vanguard IF if had like, 40+ in the mag w/ certs opening more up, but it's a shotgun so that will literally never happen because shotguns.

It'll get +2, no splash, and damage output dropped by 66%. Again

*rocks back and forth in rocker on front porch and spits a wad of chaw into a spitoon*

a'yup. a storms a' brewin. a 'tism storm. my knees' a' actin up

*nods sagely*

# ? Jul 17, 2014 19:37

Fart Car '97: Jul 23, 2003

Eonwe posted:

Lets all take the time to admit to ourselves that probably none of us know anything about actually balancing a game like Planetside 2 and we'd probably do a way worse job if we actually had to do it.

Wrong because I am capable of admitting when things are just a poo poo concept to begin with and scrapping them entirely (see: Airhammer,Cannister)

# ? Jul 17, 2014 19:45

Nakar: Sep 2, 2002; Ultima Ratio Regum

Epic High Five posted:

Even as an Airhammer it would be poo poo. The Airhammer is a pretty lovely weapon propped up entirely by the mobility of the platform. It may work fine on a Harasser and maybe even a Vanguard IF if had like, 40+ in the mag w/ certs opening more up, but it's a shotgun so that will literally never happen because shotguns.

It'll get +2, no splash, and damage output dropped by 66%. Again

Assuming the PPA is nerfed to not be an infinite-range grenade launcher, why shouldn't the C85 and Marauder also mostly be useful up close? Tanks should not be killing infantry a million miles away from themselves (nor should infantry be doing the opposite). AI secondaries should allow the tank to brawl up close without skittering away in pants-wetting fear at a C4 fairy or HA with a rocket launcher and access to a tree. This is a step toward making tanks more resilient: Make them less of a threat to infantry unless infantry get too close for comfort, at which point they can wreck infantry's poo poo with the right loadout. Then you can nerf distant AV against tanks, because now a tank can't just bitchslap instagib infantry at 100m+.

Eonwe posted:

Lets all take the time to admit to ourselves that probably none of us know anything about actually balancing a game like Planetside 2 and we'd probably do a way worse job if we actually had to do it.

poo poo son I know about the existence of gun stats I'm not sure Higby is even aware of, don't tell me I couldn't do balance. For example, the new spreadsheet is still completely wrong (no horizontal tolerance, "horizontal bias" is actually part of vertical recoil, a bunch of other poo poo).

Fart Car '97 posted:

Can we just take a moment to appreciate how awesome the Gauss SAW is? Because it's pretty loving awesome.

Rumor has it the Auraxium variant Gauss SAW will actually be called the GODSAW, but I don't know if that's a developer joke or the truth. God, let it be true.

# ? Jul 17, 2014 20:10

Ham Sandwiches: Jul 7, 2000

Eonwe posted:

Lets all take the time to admit to ourselves that probably none of us know anything about actually balancing a game like Planetside 2 and we'd probably do a way worse job if we actually had to do it.

Bro I like your posts but this is some oddly low self-esteem posting.

Never not believing in yourself!

# ? Jul 17, 2014 20:13

eonwe: Aug 11, 2008; Lipstick Apathy

All I really mean is that its a pretty complicated thing to get right and its easy to feel sure that you know some balance change that will fix everything.

# ? Jul 17, 2014 20:16

Coredump: Dec 1, 2002

Did Sony have anything to do with Warkhawk on PS3? I remember that game being lauded for how extremely balanced it was.

# ? Jul 17, 2014 20:23

lite_sleepr: Jun 3, 2003

TACTICS

# ? Jul 17, 2014 20:52

Carteret: Nov 10, 2012

Nakar posted:

Rumor has it the Auraxium variant Gauss SAW will actually be called the GODSAW, but I don't know if that's a developer joke or the truth. God, let it be true.

I think it was called the Gauss Prime.

# ? Jul 17, 2014 21:04

Nakar: Sep 2, 2002; Ultima Ratio Regum

Carteret posted:

I think it was called the Gauss Prime.

That's the name of the Gauss Rifle (NC1A Gauss Prime), but the names aren't the same for the LMGs (the Cycler variant is called the Unity and the CARV variant is the Butcher).

# ? Jul 17, 2014 21:09

Arghy: Nov 15, 2012

Eonwe posted:

Lets all take the time to admit to ourselves that probably none of us know anything about actually balancing a game like Planetside 2 and we'd probably do a way worse job if we actually had to do it.

Balance is absurdly easy depending on what your aiming for, use a 3 graph system and make sure everything equals 200 out of 300 use an accuracy/damage/RoF system. Every gun is theoretically equal then adjust the guns that are no fun on the fly, the pulsar C for example is likely performing at 230 out of 300 where the corvus is likely 170 out of 300.

Set a clear goal for gun design, what are TR/VS/NC guns supposed to do? ensure all the guns meet the requirements then begin tweaking them. Ensure all guns across faction are equal in the stat allocation then tweak them even further within their own faction to ensure they all have a very clear role. Example, the TORQ is clearly unbalanced but you could keep its stats in terms of RoF/accuracy but you'd need to lower the damage. You'd have guns with 90-100 dmg and 70-100 round mags but they'd be loving balanced because you had a goddamn end goal in mind.

As it is now all guns are balanced around killing people in 1 mag and practically nothing else. gently caress this stupid system, this isn't CoD we dont need to worry about 'is it realistic that this gun has a 160 round clip?' ITS A GODDAMN SPACE GUN. We could have insane future guns that are a loving blast to use instead of having everything be a space M16.

# ? Jul 18, 2014 00:08

Zsinjeh: Jun 11, 2007; :shoboobs:

If you have any doubt the Scythe PPA isn't the most fun thing ever I hope this relaxing waltz will wash those doubts away.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6NdiEZiTmk

# ? Jul 18, 2014 00:50

Kaiju Cage Match: Nov 5, 2012

So let me get this straight with this whole directives thing, you aurax the SAW, get a Super SAW with exmags and other attachments built in (but you can't switch them out)?

Super SAW + Shatter camo =

Become unstoppable.

I need to aurax. 296 kills with the SAW.

# ? Jul 18, 2014 01:17

eszett engma: May 7, 2013

You complete the Auraxium level of the LMG directive by getting five Auraxium medals with LMGs and receive an Auraxium variant of the stock LMG as a reward.

# ? Jul 18, 2014 01:19

Digital Fingers: Sep 2, 2012

eszett engma posted:

You complete the Auraxium level of the LMG directive by getting five Auraxium medals with LMGs and receive an Auraxium variant of the stock LMG as a reward.

Any idea if this works retroactively or do I have to earn 5 more auraxiums?

# ? Jul 18, 2014 01:28

Blasmeister: Jan 15, 2012; 2Time TRP Sack Race Champion

I hope they have one planned for carbines, and that they award them retroactively as I'm already there on that one.

# ? Jul 18, 2014 01:29

Chance: Apr 28, 2002

Digital Fingers posted:

Any idea if this works retroactively or do I have to earn 5 more auraxiums?

Retroactive and apparently this time they'll unfuck the issues with old kills not being tracked between a few patches for some guns (lasher, pulsar C) or ones that had auraxium medals added after you got 1161 kills and give you those as well.

# ? Jul 18, 2014 01:33

Fart Car '97: Jul 23, 2003

Blasmeister posted:

I hope they have one planned for carbines, and that they award them retroactively as I'm already there on that one.

They have a variant planned for each 'stock' weapon, so one carbine, one sniper, one assault rifle and one lmg for each faction.

# ? Jul 18, 2014 01:41

Blasmeister: Jan 15, 2012; 2Time TRP Sack Race Champion

Man I can't think why anyone would want to aurax 5 sniper rifles, wonder if they'll let you aurax the same weapon multiple times for that

# ? Jul 18, 2014 01:46

Nakar: Sep 2, 2002; Ultima Ratio Regum

Blasmeister posted:

Man I can't think why anyone would want to aurax 5 sniper rifles, wonder if they'll let you aurax the same weapon multiple times for that

May I introduce you to our friend, Condiment Actual?

# ? Jul 18, 2014 01:50

Maddot_66: Apr 4, 2007; Take the bomb to C, C Dammit!!

Fart Car '97 posted:

They have a variant planned for each 'stock' weapon, so one carbine, one sniper , one assault rifle and one lmg for each faction.

It is a gun that reintroduces the hex crash bug, but only for you because it only renders on your screen. The effect is intentional.

# ? Jul 18, 2014 01:53

Horizontal Tree: Jan 1, 2010

Blasmeister posted:

wonder if they'll let you aurax the same weapon multiple times for that

Let this happen so I can have an Auraxium Dalton that I'll never use

# ? Jul 18, 2014 01:54

Nookovian-Red: Sep 13, 2002; I WILL NOT CLOSE THREAD IN Serious Hardware / Software Crap

Blasmeister posted:

Man I can't think why anyone would want to aurax 5 sniper rifles, wonder if they'll let you aurax the same weapon multiple times for that

The simple fact that there will be a "elite" sniper rifle will pull a ton of people into that grind. Auraxium Junkies already subject themselves to grinding out bad guns for the medals alone. Unlocking rare guns will turn these people into frenzied beasts where every mumble and teamspeak server will have two or three people giving you a countdown of how many more kills they need until they unlock their elite tier weapons. The first person to unlock them all will have the biggest e-peen for sure.

Edit: The Elite Godsaw should just be kitted out stock SAW but everytime you land a headshot you get the chorus from Handel's Hallejulah blasting in prox around you.

Nookovian-Red fucked around with this message at 02:21 on Jul 18, 2014

# ? Jul 18, 2014 02:11

Klowns: May 13, 2009; Laugh At Me Will They?

They just stood on the cliffs of a base they couldn't even take the point on because we had already moved to their next one, heavy after heavy, poking their heads up long enough to launch a dumbfire and get shot in the face. It was beautiful.

And then a GOKU Magrider ran me over and ended my streak.

# ? Jul 18, 2014 04:06

NihilCredo: Jun 6, 2011; iram omni possibili modo preme:
plus una illa te diffamabit, quam multæ virtutes commendabunt

Klowns posted:

They just stood on the cliffs of a base they couldn't even take the point on because we had already moved to their next one, heavy after heavy, poking their heads up long enough to launch a dumbfire and get shot in the face. It was beautiful.

And then a GOKU Magrider ran me over and ended my streak.

I checked his page and it seems you made quite an impression on that BR6 newbie:

# ? Jul 18, 2014 05:45

lite_sleepr: Jun 3, 2003

Klowns posted:

They just stood on the cliffs of a base they couldn't even take the point on because we had already moved to their next one, heavy after heavy, poking their heads up long enough to launch a dumbfire and get shot in the face. It was beautiful.

And then a GOKU Magrider ran me over and ended my streak.

GOKUs schtick is magburner bowling bushwookies :shrug:

If you were to TK one of them and besmirch their precious KDURRRRRR they'd call down a bloodhunt. Vanu forbid one guy do whatever he wants in his game. It's not like the 110 other VS players in a hellzerg can take the hill!

lite_sleepr fucked around with this message at 07:35 on Jul 18, 2014

# ? Jul 18, 2014 07:03

Pistol_Pete: Sep 15, 2007; Oven Wrangler

Klowns posted:

They just stood on the cliffs of a base they couldn't even take the point on because we had already moved to their next one, heavy after heavy, poking their heads up long enough to launch a dumbfire and get shot in the face. It was beautiful.

And then a GOKU Magrider ran me over and ended my streak.

Lmao, you killed the same guy 6 times in 5 minutes.

"Lets see what's over this hill... gently caress."

"Ok, lets try again... gently caress."

"Maybe if I... gently caress."

"That sniper's probably gone now... gently caress."

And so on and so forth.

# ? Jul 18, 2014 07:43

Ass_Burgerer: Dec 3, 2010

vigorous sodomy posted:

GOKUs schtick is magburner bowling bushwookies If you were to TK one of them and besmirch their precious KDURRRRRR they'd call down a bloodhunt. Vanu forbid one guy do whatever he wants in his game. It's not like the 110 other VS players in a hellzerg can take the hill!

This is true. Goku is a TK happy zergfit full of mad bads and a bad rep. They're not even part of ION.

# ? Jul 18, 2014 08:34

Klowns: May 13, 2009; Laugh At Me Will They?

Umiapik posted:

Lmao, you killed the same guy 6 times in 5 minutes.

I felt kind of bad and was mashing Q before I popped heads to try and shoot somebody else for a change but he just made it so easy. Looks like he had a pretty terribly night, killed 36 times in a row.

# ? Jul 18, 2014 08:38

Arghy: Nov 15, 2012

Klowns posted:

I felt kind of bad and was mashing Q before I popped heads to try and shoot somebody else for a change but he just made it so easy. Looks like he had a pretty terribly night, killed 36 times in a row.

After 6 kills i usually stop and send them tells encouraging them and telling them what they did wrong, always start by telling them how to respond to tells haha.

vigorous sodomy posted:

GOKUs schtick is magburner bowling bushwookies If you were to TK one of them and besmirch their precious KDURRRRRR they'd call down a bloodhunt. Vanu forbid one guy do whatever he wants in his game. It's not like the 110 other VS players in a hellzerg can take the hill!

Its true KV regularly has all 8 GOKU platoons scouring a hex looking for that one sniper, PPA's firing non stop from 192 magriders.

# ? Jul 18, 2014 10:40

Gonkish: May 19, 2004

GOKU magrider platoons are so common that Emerald tank spergs have all quit the game in disgust. Platoons 41-50 have so few targets for their PPAs that magburn bowling snipers is all that's left for them.

Pretty sure we Platoons 1-10 were Lancer farming everywhere on every continent at tbe time. 11-20 were obviously Scythe swarming. The rest were, naturally, zerging bases with nothing but that darned OP Orion and its lack of bullet drop.

(Pubbies actually believe this on some level.)

# ? Jul 18, 2014 11:04

Gobblecoque: Sep 6, 2011

Lots of people think that we mostly do redeploying, lancing, point holds, and redeploying, but that's all a cover for our true mission: running over friendly snipers in our Magriders and not dropping ammo for them. vigorous sodomy is about to blow the whole lid off our anti-sniper conspiracy and then we'll be truly hosed. I hope you guys are readying your DAPP applications for when Magrider-gate gets out.

# ? Jul 18, 2014 12:37

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# ? Jun 2, 2024 16:09

juggalo baby coffin: Dec 2, 2007; How would the dog wear goggles and even more than that, who makes the goggles?

I know goku mumble is just aaaall about running over people who dare defy our will. There is no room for fun in the ginyu force.

# ? Jul 18, 2014 13:31

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Planetside 2: This is Our Swamp [HOSSIN IS OUT]

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