|
MrL_JaKiri posted:+3 THACO, +1 HP every 5 seconds, Immune to charm and fear, 15% chance to drain 4 levels from enemy and heal, haste, and raise strength of wielder I may have Dorn dual wield it with Kundane to give it a spin then. I inherently suspected the "drain 4 levels" part would get resisted by literally everything.
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2014 16:41
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 13, 2024 23:53 |
|
|
ChiTownEddie posted:I'm probably 60% of the way through BG:EE playing a berserker...which is fine but I kind of wish I had picked a class with some abilities to use. Can I just EEKeeper (never used it before) my guy into a fighter/cleric multiclass or something? How hard is that (ie do I have to figure out my exact exp to add in or something?) It's a perfectly good class, just fill out the party with clerics and mages if you want something a bit more interactive. Remember that you're playing the party, and not just the PC.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2014 16:42
|
|
|
Blackrazor's very fun. I wouldn't put it right in the top tier for raw power, but it can get the job done very well against most things and there's something truly joyful about getting it to work, so you end up with a 25 STR warrior hitting everything so often that damage just melts off your character (while enemies melt away in front of you). E: Level drain immunity is virtually nonexistent IIRC, but if you're hitting enemies in ToB often enough for it to matter, it's even odds whether they're going down to that or straight damage anyway.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2014 16:43
|
|
|
Captain Oblivious posted:I may have Dorn dual wield it with Kundane to give it a spin then. I inherently suspected the "drain 4 levels" part would get resisted by literally everything. It's the +strength part that's really notable.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2014 16:43
|
|
|
MrL_JaKiri posted:It's the +strength part that's really notable. Yeah I kinda suspected as much, just never trusted it enough to actually give it a try. RNG bullshit  I AM OLD AND SET IN MY WAYS or something, when it comes to BG2.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2014 16:49
|
|
|
What is it that makes archery so non-viable in the later games, out of curiosity? I've never used a bow after the early game of Baldur's Gate, but with the EE's, I was kind of hoping to take it at least a bit further.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2014 16:50
|
|
|
I somehow managed to read the opposite of what was posted, so go me. 
Lemon-Lime fucked around with this message at 17:46 on Jul 18, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2014 17:04
|
|
|
Lemon Curdistan posted:High damage and versatility (via the different magic arrow types), a lot of attacks per round, and not needing to get into melee with nasty poo poo. I think he means why is it NON-viable later in the game. I guess partly because of protection from missiles spells? Don't a lot of casters have that up? Also I think a lot of the harder monsters are resistant to them. Dragons maybe? Golems? I forget. The main reason is because by that point in the game your party is sitting on a buttload of +strength items/spells/consumables and all your dudes will have at LEAST 18/00 strength at all times. That huge bonus doesn't apply to missile weapons so you lose out on a lot of damage. Why hit for 10 damage per shot when you can hit for 20? Also, there are no +4 or +5 enchanted arrows out there. The most you ever get is +2 in SOA and I think you can get +3 in TOB, but I'm not sure.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2014 17:44
|
|
|
Yeah, non-viable. It's something I've always heard about, but never seen explained, or had it demonstrated in game from trying to use it at those stages. That stuff makes sense, though.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2014 17:47
|
|
Lemon Curdistan posted:High damage and versatility (via the different magic arrow types), a lot of attacks per round, and not needing to get into melee with nasty poo poo. The biggest reason is they nerfed arrows heavily in BG2. In BG1 an arrow of fire would do 1d6 piercing and 1d6 fire, and acid would do 1d6 piercing and 2d6 acid. In BG2 the fire arrow is now 1d6 piercing and 1d2 fire while acid went to 1d6 piercing and 1d3 acid. On top of that the bow's enchantment bonus only applied to hit in BG2 so that +3 long bow would only give +3 to hit and none to damage. Long story short it's because they just can't produce the damage needed to kill stuff in late game BG2.
|
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2014 17:48
|
|
|
GuyDudeBroMan posted:I think he means why is it NON-viable later in the game. Yeah, I somehow read it as viable in late-game BG1. Sorry, not enough caffeine I guess. But yeah, on top of all of that, BG2/ToB also have really powerful melee weapons and armours that grant you a lot of resistance to nasty stuff while dealing incredible amounts of damage, so it makes bows worth it even less.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2014 17:53
|
|
|
That's a shame, I don't suppose there are any mods for BG2:EE that address that? I can't install from a disc drive at the moment so Tutu and any relevant fixes isn't an option.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2014 17:56
|
|
|
I never played the EE or expansions for BG1 or 2 so a lot of that is lost on me. I didn't know all that stuff was available for purchase at the start of the game, and I've played through it twice! I never really bothered to hit the shops, and just focused on questing and things like that. Or when I DID hit shops, it was always so expensive that I couldn't begin to even pick it up until much later. That is really interesting though, thanks a lot for those tips. I'm guessing IWD is probably more gear oriented since its combat oriented? The wife and kiddo are out this weekend so I'm about to marathon IWD 
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2014 18:04
|
|
|
Dan Didio posted:That's a shame, I don't suppose there are any mods for BG2:EE that address that? I can't install from a disc drive at the moment so Tutu and any relevant fixes isn't an option. Why would you want to "address that"? It's balanced pretty perfectly. Yes, you do less damage with bows than with melee weapons. But guess what you gain by using bows? * You yourself are 100% totally immune to any and all melee damage while attacking at range. * Although not "immune" to them, you wont take nearly as much damage from AOE attacks or traps going off mid battle since you will most often be out of range of the effects. * You can get your first hit in on an enemy the very second the battle starts without having to move into position. Great for interrupting spell casters (especially if you can poison them). * You can keep hitting the target for your max number of attacks per round no matter where he runs to, or what he's trying to hide behind. * You will always get your full number of attacks on an enemy no matter how crowded it gets with melee fighters and summons in front of you. You never have to worry about bumping shoulders with your party members while trying to get into position. * You can focus all your attacks on the most important enemy (the spell caster) without having to mow down trash first just to reach him. Those are some pretty loving HUGE advantages bows have over swords. It would be pretty silly if bows did the same damage. There would be no reason to ever melee anything. I give all of my front line fighters some kind of missile weapon as a back up. Some bad guys just hit way too hard to sit in melee with them for long periods of time. It's better to just have your summons soak that damage while you pepper them with arrows. I think it's pretty perfectly balanced honestly.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2014 18:11
|
|
|
An archer is very viable, while you will be doing less damage than a melee fighter, you still have the advantage of range and that is very useful sometimes. The problem is there really is only a handful of really good ranged weapons in the game (2 shortbows, a crossbow and a sling).
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2014 18:12
|
|
|
Jastiger posted:I didn't know all that stuff was available for purchase at the start of the game That includes stuff you go and kill people to get, not just purchased stuff (although as we're talking a few tens of thousands of gold to buy the stuff you can buy you have to do a lot of that anyway) Jastiger posted:and I've played through it twice! I think I've played it through, uh, lots of times so don't sweat you don't know everything about the game  You'll still find new content in replays!If you're a fan of dungeons (and if you're playing IWD you kind of have to be) pick up the BG and BG2 expansions, they add two big ones. Watcher's Keep is amazing and Durlag's Keep is, erm, pretty good if you have a thief to find the traps.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2014 18:48
|
|
|
If you're playing an Archer (the ranger kit), you'll be perfectly viable. The extra +5 damage that a level 15 Archer does on each arrow offsets the strength penalty. You sort of have to play archers differently based on who you're fighting, though, and the inability to equip multiple launchers as quick items is a pain in the rear end. Strongarm actually does do extra damage from the bow, and it's quite nice to whip out along with your most powerful arrows (dispelling, mainly) in mage bossfights. The real problem is that you'll be pumping out so many arrows that you HAVE to either use the infinite +1 quiver -or- one of the infinite bows, which consigns you to shortbows. also there aren't any +4 arrows in the game so you're completely hosed against Melissaan and stuff unless you switch to Gesen's Bow. And that is an oversight.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2014 18:50
|
|
|
GuyDudeBroMan posted:Why would you want to "address that"? Because everything I've read about BG2, and expansions, claimed that archery was straight up inferior until your excellent post, friend! Thank you. I think I'll try it out on this run.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2014 18:57
|
|
|
Those are a massive overstatement of how good bows are, I'm afraid. You can finish the game with absolutely anything so it doesn't really matter, but let's not kid ourselves - mages have all of those advantages and more. * You yourself are 100% totally immune to any and all melee damage unless PfMW/PfNW/Stoneskin runs out and you don't have a contingency/the Robe of Vecna/are still being hit. * Although not "immune" to them, you wont take nearly as much damage from AOE attacks or traps going off mid battle since you will most often be out of range of the effects. Also you could be in a completely different room via Mislead. * You can get your first hit in on an enemy the very second the battle starts without having to move into position. Great for interrupting spell casters (especially if you can poison them). * You can keep hitting the target for your max number of attacks per round no matter where he runs to, or what he's trying to hide behind. Or if he turns invisible. Or if he's too difficult and you just shut the door on him with a Cloud Kill in the other room and block him coming through. * You will always get your full number of attacks on an enemy no matter how crowded it gets with melee fighters and summons in front of you. You never have to worry about bumping shoulders with your party members while trying to get into position. * You can focus all your attacks on the most important enemy (the spell caster) without having to mow down trash first just to reach him. Also you can remove spell protections. * You can identify magic items * You can double your party's attacks * You can kill dragons in a fraction of a second * You can stop time * You can just stomp all over the game doing whatever you feel like really to be honest, mages are far too good. Although they are nothing compared to the might and majesty of the solo level-uncapped FMT MrL_JaKiri fucked around with this message at 19:11 on Jul 18, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2014 19:06
|
|
|
MrL_JaKiri posted:Those are a massive overstatement of how good bows are, I'm afraid. Well, now, I don't know what to think. What the gently caress. Someone please give me an interesting build to spec my incredibly generic Fighter Bow/Longsword Dude into.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2014 19:12
|
|
|
Dan Didio posted:Well, now, I don't know what to think. What the gently caress. Someone please give me an interesting build to spec my incredibly generic Fighter Bow/Longsword Dude into. Just do whatever the gently caress you want, the takehome message was MrL_JaKiri posted:You can finish the game with absolutely anything so it doesn't really matter The important thing is that you play the way you want to play. It's going to be suboptimal in some fights (eg. the very last one) to use bows but whatever, it's the journey that's important not min-maxxing.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2014 19:15
|
|
|
Dan Didio posted:Well, now, I don't know what to think. What the gently caress. Someone please give me an interesting build to spec my incredibly generic Fighter Bow/Longsword Dude into. Just go with whatever, don't sweat it too much. Start min-maxing only when you EDIT: Beaten
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2014 19:15
|
|
|
I know it's fine, I'm looking for something new to branch into that's interesting to play, if bow's are that, cool, if not, ehhhh, give me something else.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2014 19:17
|
|
|
Bows can be pretty fun to play, you get lots of kinds of arrows to play with
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2014 19:22
|
|
|
MrL_JaKiri posted:Bows can be pretty fun to play, you get lots of kinds of arrows to play with Finally, someone on my level. Thank you.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2014 19:24
|
|
|
Yeah I'd like to get the expansions to BG and BG2 but it was hard enough convincing the wife to get IWD 1 and 2 with PS:T, lol. Maybe in the future. I still consider BG and BG2 to be the best video gaming experiences I've ever had, rose tinted or no, I love them. I just didn't know so much of that stuff was so useful at the front of the game. IWD sounds like it'll be a blast though. I haven't even started it yet, but I'm excited to have more Infinity Engine tactical combat, especially after just finishing the terrible combat in PS:T.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2014 19:24
|
|
|
The avenger druid is pretty fun, actually. Cast improved invisiblity on yourself, toss webs around, then turn into a spider and gently caress poo poo up. It's probably the only "good/well balanced" druid class, and since everyone hates druids, you probably haven't played one. Do the stronghold quest! See content that like 1% of the playerbase ever saw!
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2014 19:28
|
|
|
I know it's not exactly IE, but is Temple of Elemental Evil worth playing? I just realized I bought it for like $1 during GOG's last winter sale.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2014 19:45
|
|
|
Wolfsheim posted:I know it's not exactly IE, but is Temple of Elemental Evil worth playing? I just realized I bought it for like $1 during GOG's last winter sale. Yes.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2014 19:47
|
|
|
MrL_JaKiri posted:Those are a massive overstatement of how good bows are, I'm afraid. Well true. High level mages totally break the game. 1 single level 30 mage is far more powerful than an entire 6 person party of level 30 fighters. Especially if you do the wish spell -> rest mid battle/infinite spells loop. I don't know if its possible to solo the Ascension modded TOB on impossible difficulty with just a lone fighter. Whereas a mage can solo it pretty drat easily. If you are just a pure min/max gamer and are looking to make the "most powerful party possible", then it would be insane to put a non-spell caster in your party. But playing that way is totally unnecessary and unfun. It's not like this game is hard or anything.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2014 19:48
|
|
Wolfsheim posted:I know it's not exactly IE, but is Temple of Elemental Evil worth playing? I just realized I bought it for like $1 during GOG's last winter sale. Yes, very much so, but use this fan patch . It has two versions, bug fixes and new content. The bug fix version is pretty much mandatory to play the game at all, and the new content is actually pretty good. I recommend playing it through once with the bug fixes then if you want more add the new content. Word of warning, the story and voice acting is just terrible, but the combat and item creation are balls out awesome.
|
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2014 19:50
|
|
|
Wolfsheim posted:I know it's not exactly IE, but is Temple of Elemental Evil worth playing? I just realized I bought it for like $1 during GOG's last winter sale. If you can get passed the first town and into the Temple itself, yes the game is fun. That first town is a loving dealbreaker of bullshit though. It's a horrific chained FedEx quest that never ends, with a horrible quest journal and map. It's like every single house in town has a dude that is willing to give you X if you give him Y. Then you have to find the guy that wants Y so he can give you Z. Its loving bullshit. Like eventually you just throw up your own custom tags on the map with poo poo like: Joe Smith Wants:A plate of cheese Gives:Bottle of wine But then you very quickly run out of custom flags since the map only allows you to have so many. Thats when you just loving give up and never play the game again. Irenicus's Dungeon is NOTHING compared to this games starting zone.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2014 19:57
|
|
|
GuyDudeBroMan posted:* You can keep hitting the target for your max number of attacks per round no matter where he runs to, or what he's trying to hide behind. I'm not sure if this is true. BG runs off of rubbish 2nd edition rules, and I'm pretty sure that attack rates for ranged weapons are fixed and don't grow with character development. Disregarding Haste effects, Slings are always 1 per round, crossbows are comparable but do more damage, and bows are 2 shots per round, which is great early/mid game but can be a loss later on when you have a dual-wielder who can crack off 3+ attacks per round without any help. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I remember my 2nd edition rules far too well and BG sticks to those quite closely. Jastiger posted:Yeah I'd like to get the expansions to BG and BG2 but it was hard enough convincing the wife to get IWD 1 and 2 with PS:T, lol. Ah, you're that chap I played EQ with a few years ago. Three letters for you, mate: GOG. You can get all of the Infinity Engine goodness you can imagine there for very low prices. Every game has all of the official expansions (IWD1 has 2) and whatnot, though most can still benefit from some fan patches. moot the hopple posted:As long as you don't move too far up, you can also farm EXP by death fogging and spamming other AoEs in that monster spawning area in front of Poquelin. At that point you're pretty close to the end of the base game anyway so it's kind of up to you how much grinding you want to do. I will never forgive the person who took out the Flesh Golem grinding spot in BG1 for the Enhanced Edition. I don't care if it was originally a bug or an oversight, I'm still angry.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2014 20:04
|
|
|
MrL_JaKiri posted:It's a perfectly good class, just fill out the party with clerics and mages if you want something a bit more interactive. Remember that you're playing the party, and not just the PC. Haha fair enough. I'll just finish this and then look into it again for BG2.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2014 20:09
|
|
|
JustJeff88 posted:I'm not sure if this is true. BG runs off of rubbish 2nd edition rules, and I'm pretty sure that attack rates for ranged weapons are fixed and don't grow with character development. Disregarding Haste effects, Slings are always 1 per round, crossbows are comparable but do more damage, and bows are 2 shots per round, which is great early/mid game but can be a loss later on when you have a dual-wielder who can crack off 3+ attacks per round without any help. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I remember my 2nd edition rules far too well and BG sticks to those quite closely. Nah, you still get bonus 1/2 attacks at level 7 and 13 as a warrior. A level 13 warrior with 2 or more pips in a bow will fire 3.5x/round (2 base, +0.5 from proficiency, +0.5 from level 7, +0.5 from level 13). Haven't played BG2 Enhanced, so I'm not sure if it restored Grand Mastery to something worthwhile (I know it does in BG1, but you can't reach it with the level cap.) Inexplicably, the boots of speed seem to give you an additional half attack too, but I'm not sure if that was just a display bug or if you really DID attack that many times. In any event, you're not stuck with base attack rates on ranged weapons. That's only true for warriors, though. Everybody else in the game sucks at fighting because they sit at 1 attack per round no matter what.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2014 20:23
|
|
|
MrL_JaKiri posted:Off the top of my head, the really powerful items that are limited to the end of the game are Crom Faeyr, Blackrazor (REALLY the end of the game in this case) and The Silver Sword. Silver Sword is really amazing in everything except the toughest ToB fights. Has about a 10% chance to kill on any hit even against really tough enemies, which is just as good as Axe of Unyielding or Ravager later on. But it is vastly more effective than either of those for when you get it.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2014 20:55
|
|
|
Jastiger posted:So I won't see ANY story items/characters/references from BG1/2 into IWD 1/2? I get it, its a different region of Faerun, just wasn't sure. There might be like 1 reference but not really. There's always stuff you get in the final dungeon but IWD has the least of it. There's a sword you can get in the final area that you can keep using once you import your party to Heart of Winter. Also, one note: IWD has several quest NPCs with generic names like "Townsfolk." Talk to everyone or you'll miss a quest or two. This starts as early as the very first area of the game.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2014 20:55
|
|
|
FairGame posted:If you're playing an Archer (the ranger kit), you'll be perfectly viable. The extra +5 damage that a level 15 Archer does on each arrow offsets the strength penalty. Wolfsheim posted:I know it's not exactly IE, but is Temple of Elemental Evil worth playing? I just realized I bought it for like $1 during GOG's last winter sale.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2014 21:26
|
|
|
JustJeff88 posted:
Hehe where do you think I got IWD, IWD 2, and PS:T  I didn't get BG 1 or 2 because I have the original boxes from way back when and couldn't justify re-buying the whole thing when I already have the originals. Maybe I should have, I dunno. Maybe when I have money to fling around I'll do it.Arivia posted:There might be like 1 reference but not really. Thanks!
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2014 21:40
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 13, 2024 23:53 |
|
|
ChiTownEddie posted:Haha fair enough. I'll just finish this and then look into it again for BG2. Dual your berserker into a mage, berserker 9->mage X is pretty fun. People like the kensage combo alot but zerker mage is still perfectly valid and a easier to get off the ground because they don't have to wait as long for their fighter abilities to come into their own like the kensai, who generally dual classes later to get the most out of it. While kensage is ridiculously good when it gets going, zerk mage is probably a smoother experience without being too far behind in effectiveness.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2014 22:43
|
|
