|
Dota is ridiculously complicated, especially if you've never played an rts before. I think the team play aspects of the games are what makes them so popular. I hope that soon we can have a f2p fighting game that works reasonably well online.
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2014 15:10
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 8, 2024 18:38 |
|
|
Arzachel posted:Dota, LoL and SC are arcane as gently caress though. While being newbie friendly helps, It doesn't seem to be required for a large player base. arcane and having high levels of entry level complexity are two totally different things
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2014 15:32
|
|
|
Arzachel posted:Dota, LoL and SC are arcane as gently caress though. While being newbie friendly helps, It doesn't seem to be required for a large player base. Combos and supers are also part of a, for a lack of a better term, gaming language, that most gamers are familiar with. Fighting games also have overheads, EX moves, links, crossovers, recovery, unsafe moves, start up etc. It's less about the terms itself and more about what they stand for. And most of those things exclusively happen in fighting games. They aren't part of the vocabulary of most gamers. So new players will wonder "why did that hit me?!", "why can't I do that?" or "why is he yellow?" and honestly, fighting games do a really lovely job communicating those things, unless you know them. Yeah, fighting games need better tutorials, but they also have to find a way to communicate those things ingame. A player has to be able to jump in and understand what is happening to him(not 100% feasible I know, but it can be made easier). Especially in fighting games, where you don't have time to set up, to orient yourself and plan ahead. Dota is super arcane when you get into it, but when someone starts the game up for the very first time, the game communicates things in a language most people are familiar with.
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2014 15:33
|
|
|
It takes 5 seconds to look up any of those things, I know because at some point I did. And then I knew.
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2014 15:40
|
|
|
Doggboat posted:I do think that dota communicates itself better though. You have spells, they have cooldown, you level up, which makes you gain more abilities/spells. It uses a language that is very established and people know what it is without ever having played them. Demonstrably false. Tell me one other game where "jungling" is a thing. Dota lingo is every bit as dense and impenetrable as fighting game lingo. Perhaps even moreso, just owing to how MOBA's are comparatively newer as a genre. By now everyone knows what a combo is, surely, but the meaning of "feeding" is probably a little muddier.
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2014 15:46
|
|
|
Yeah DotA terms can be pretty opaque and there's a lot of stuff in those MOBAs that you won't figure out just by watching some good matches (because you won't understand it.) I'd say SF4 is pretty straight forward, as there are only a handful of things someone might not understand at first, but might figure out just from watching a few sets. The difficulty is more in execution.
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2014 16:16
|
|
|
Doggboat posted:I do think that dota communicates itself better though. You have spells, they have cooldown, you level up, which makes you gain more abilities/spells. It uses a language that is very established and people know what it is without ever having played them. This is far and away the dumbest loving complaint I've ever heard about fighting games. If you don't know what a word is, what do you do? You look it up in the loving dictionary. It's the same thing. There are at least a couple of sites that have a glossary of terms that you can look up, and a trillion videos explaining how to do things in fighting games. DOTA uses terms that are in many other games and you're assuming that the "someone" that starts the game for the first time at least has gaming experience and would know the terms that DOTA uses. You're wrong. What if a person starts up DOTA and has never played a moba or mmorpg, or isn't someone who plays games regularly? You DO have time to set up, orient yourself, and plan ahead. You just don't have a lot of time to do so. You have to research why you got hit by X, or how Y didn't hit the opponent and find out new things constantly for a long time. Understanding why you lost and correcting the reasons why you lost is what is important for new players to understand and in my experiences, most new players don't understand and they won't work to learn it.
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2014 16:23
|
|
|
Sarchasm posted:Demonstrably false. Tell me one other game where "jungling" is a thing. Dota lingo is every bit as dense and impenetrable as fighting game lingo. Perhaps even moreso, just owing to how MOBA's are comparatively newer as a genre. By now everyone knows what a combo is, surely, but the meaning of "feeding" is probably a little muddier. Like I said, it's not about the lingo. It's about communication. Communicating what is happening. Don't get hung up on words, because we mostly use the word communication in that context. The concepts of jungling and feeding are what matters: you grind xp and gold, dying makes the enemy stronger. Both well established concepts. Who gives a poo poo what they call it. The player will recognise those concepts, because he is already familiar with them.
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2014 16:23
|
|
|
Rudger posted:This is far and away the dumbest loving complaint I've ever heard about fighting games. If you don't know what a word is, what do you do? You look it up in the loving dictionary. I'm not going to argue with you, because you haven't even understood the very basic of my argument. Calling my complaint dumb with 0 reading comprehension. Give me a break.
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2014 16:26
|
|
|
this thread has lead to a very healthy discussion and i have been exceptionally helpful. see you in a little while.
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2014 16:28
|
|
|
thread reopened. lets discuss pro fighting games ok?
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2014 21:18
|
|
|
Welcome back pro fighting games thread!
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2014 21:22
|
|
|
Arzachel posted:The reason for this is that most fighting game developers have treated online as an afterthought. Playing a person from the east cost at 120-150 ping in Skullgirls usually feels better than playing a Swede at 20-40 ping in SF4 for me. You have it backwards. The reason that most fighting game developers treat online as an afterthought is because there is no really "good" way to do it and have it be the same as offline play. Myself and plenty of other players have mixups and strategies that can only realistically be executed online because of the nature of online play.
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2014 21:24
|
|
|
Any twitter reports on who got hookers at EVO?
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2014 21:25
|
|
|
For people clamoring to watch Pros be online warriors, PR Balrog is streaming right now. http://www.twitch.tv/pr_balrog
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2014 21:28
|
|
|
I alawys tought that games like Dota 2 and Starcraft explain a lot of stuff much better to Beginners than nearly every fighting game. If you dont already know alot of stuff from older fighting games it gets really hard to get into more complex stuff in sf4 because nothing is explained well enough ingame.
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2014 21:52
|
|
|
i thought yall could behave but NOPE. thread over for a week, cya.
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2014 21:53
|
|
|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yYS0ZZdsnA
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2014 18:37
|
|
|
And just in time for The International!
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2014 21:36
|
|
|
So when is our next tournament? Only one I know of is West Coast Warzone, but that's not til the first week of September, gotta be something before then.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2014 23:01
|
|
|
cams posted:So when is our next tournament? Only one I know of is West Coast Warzone, but that's not til the first week of September, gotta be something before then. Isn't DA BEECH coming up?
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2014 23:07
|
|
|
Broken Loose posted:Isn't DA BEECH coming up? I mean, is anyone really going to be there, assuming it is happening? Considering how the last one was a trainwreck?
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2014 23:10
|
|
|
It was today. It had like 250 viewers, PR Balrog was streaming online SF and he had three times as much.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2014 03:00
|
|
|
HoneyBoy posted:It was today. I was watching PR Balrog. He had over 2000 viewers.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2014 03:01
|
|
|
When's Summer Jam, I think that's the next big one.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2014 03:04
|
|
|
FanaticalMilk posted:When's Summer Jam, I think that's the next big one. Sometime in late August.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2014 03:52
|
|
|
Watson and Mando are streaming from the being-remodeled Super Arcade. No games tonight. Just them talking poo poo. They just announced that they're running a tournament in November to celebrate the 10th anniversary of Evo Moment #37 at Cal Poly Pomona, where Evo 2004 was held. Old school games will be the focus: 3rd Strike, Super Turbo, CvS2, and probably other games that were at Evo 2004. https://www.twitch.tv/iebattlegrounds
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2014 06:15
|
|
|
Ryuga Death posted:Sometime in late August. Yup. There aren't any majors for a while after EVO. At least, not anything that people really consider a 'major' or give any actual fucks about. Hell, now that Justin saved Marvel, I'm ok with everything being cancelled until at least like, Final Round or ECT...where I will once again get bodied by either FChamp, Justin, Chris G or Flocker, depending on what pool I end up in. I will never escape pools, I always end up with a top player and getting goddamn bodied  iPodschun posted:Watson and Mando are streaming from the being-remodeled Super Arcade. No games tonight. Just them talking poo poo. They just announced that they're running a tournament in November to celebrate the 10th anniversary of Evo Moment #37 at Cal Poly Pomona, where Evo 2004 was held. Old school games will be the focus: 3rd Strike, Super Turbo, CvS2, and probably other games that were at Evo 2004. That's cool as gently caress and I will watch it. Hell, I wish I could go
Fenrir fucked around with this message at 12:06 on Jul 19, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2014 11:59
|
|
|
http://www.twitch.tv/dreamhackfighters SF4 from Dreamhack Valencia is on. Luffy and Ryan Hart are there among others. edit: bracket http://challonge.com/dhvalencia14usf4 iPodschun fucked around with this message at 17:15 on Jul 19, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2014 17:11
|
|
|
EVO ST Salty Suite Matches Mao (2 lives) vs Damdai (5 lives) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oic1bSmWQ-s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuihvN8_fDo Damdai vs Shotosallday https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFv22XEC4G0 Orf vs Muffinman https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D97FzwMO5cc Chrisgamble vs Mao https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMP8N4BweSs Shotosallday vs TechMonkey https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAo2fO1NH-E Mattsun vs Shotosallday https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSFoRVusiIM
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2014 17:30
|
|
|
iPodschun posted:http://www.twitch.tv/dreamhackfighters Oh my days.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2014 17:40
|
|
|
Fassol (sp?) almost pulled it off with Ryu against that Yun. Just a couple mistakes after mostly solid rounds, but that's all Yun needs to kill. And Luffy kills another Sagat... Static Rook fucked around with this message at 18:56 on Jul 19, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2014 18:49
|
|
|
Have no idea why Ryan didn't change characters. That matchup is just awful.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2014 19:27
|
|
|
argondamn posted:Have no idea why Ryan didn't change characters. That matchup is just awful.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2014 22:10
|
|
|
argondamn posted:Have no idea why Ryan didn't change characters. That matchup is just awful. His Yun isn't good enough to compete with Luffy.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2014 23:27
|
|
|
Art was telling some tales in stream chat for this Babylon Brawl. I didn't catch all the details, but it sounded like Triforce was accidentally streaming some uncomfortable discussions with The Steam Co pre-evo. Then I guess The Steam Co FGC guy wired Art the Evo money for Sanford to Art's paypal. Art told Sanford he should drop EMP and the ticket was bought very shortly thereafter. Might have the order mixed up, but it was hard to read with dumb spam chat.
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2014 01:30
|
|
|
iPodschun posted:Old school games will be the focus: 3rd Strike, Super Turbo, CvS2, and probably other games that were at Evo 2004. Fuuuuuuuuck. Thats pretty cool. C'mon Alpha 2 tourney.
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2014 02:55
|
|
|
Crossposting from General FG thread, there's a UNIEL (that game with the dumb name from Melty Blood people) tourney being streamed right now: http://www.ustream.tv/channel/apm%E9%85%8D%E4%BF%A1%E3%83%81%E3%83%A3%E3%83%B3%E3%83%8D%E3%83%AB/theater
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2014 06:20
|
|
|
Shadow Ninja 64 posted:Crossposting from General FG thread, there's a UNIEL (that game with the dumb name from Melty Blood people) tourney being streamed right now: http://www.ustream.tv/channel/apm%E9%85%8D%E4%BF%A1%E3%83%81%E3%83%A3%E3%83%B3%E3%83%8D%E3%83%AB/theater Huh. They got dudes wearing Fedoras in Japan too huh?
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2014 07:52
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 8, 2024 18:38 |
|
|
Hypocrisy posted:Huh. They got dudes wearing Fedoras in Japan too huh? Hats are fashionable in Japan. You can wear one without electing into some form of douchery, it's kind of nice!
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2014 08:26
|
|