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legsarerequired posted:I get kind of jealous when I hear about y'all talking about degrees and being raised. It doesn't seem like there's an OES equivalent... Either the Amaranth Degree or the White Shrines of Jerusalem (I can't remember which) were supposed to be higher degrees of OES but the grand chapters at the time opted not to have 'high degrees'. I'd have to check on that, but I suppose it's a rough equivalent. Hell, even though they're not formally recognized by us, I always encourage investigating feminine lodges as an option for those not eligible to join a traditional lodge.
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Jul 14, 2014 15:14
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Is anyone here knowledgable about the lodges in Albuquerque? Reading this thread has made me very interested in at least talking to masons at a time when things are open to the public and to hopefully find one that'll accept a trans guy. New Mexico's a poor state, which makes me hope that dues are relatively low. Those are my two biggest stumbling points now that I know masonry requires curiosity rather than invitation.
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Jul 21, 2014 06:05
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About a year or so ago I was watching TV and a commercial for Freemasons in the Maryland area came up that talked about the brotherhood and what a Freemason is and invited people to go on to there website and signup to come to a open house to meet Freemasons. It confused me since it didn't seem like something that the Freemasons need to do, but then I stopped to think, maybe this is how they are hoping to bring new "young blood" into the order. Is this a new strategy to try and bring the "youth" in to the order? Have you ever seen anything like that?
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Jul 21, 2014 07:21
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codered11343 posted:About a year or so ago I was watching TV and a commercial for Freemasons in the Maryland area came up that talked about the brotherhood and what a Freemason is and invited people to go on to there website and signup to come to a open house to meet Freemasons. It confused me since it didn't seem like something that the Freemasons need to do, but then I stopped to think, maybe this is how they are hoping to bring new "young blood" into the order. It happens. Its terrible. And it should stop.
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Jul 21, 2014 07:29
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codered11343 posted:About a year or so ago I was watching TV and a commercial for Freemasons in the Maryland area came up that talked about the brotherhood and what a Freemason is and invited people to go on to there website and signup to come to a open house to meet Freemasons. It confused me since it didn't seem like something that the Freemasons need to do, but then I stopped to think, maybe this is how they are hoping to bring new "young blood" into the order. We have seen it and most of us don't like it. We aren't a church or a social club, drat it . Plus it's absolutely against the rules for us to say anything even close to "Hey, Codered! You should join up, it's pretty cool. Here's a petition, I'll sign it for you as a reference." They can get away with that at the Eagles, but it's not our job to recruit.
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Jul 21, 2014 07:35
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codered11343 posted:About a year or so ago I was watching TV and a commercial for Freemasons in the Maryland area came up that talked about the brotherhood and what a Freemason is and invited people to go on to there website and signup to come to a open house to meet Freemasons. It confused me since it didn't seem like something that the Freemasons need to do, but then I stopped to think, maybe this is how they are hoping to bring new "young blood" into the order. "Is there greatness in you?" gently caress off Ben Franklin! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kWi7EQKlhk
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Jul 21, 2014 07:47
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codered11343 posted:"Is there greatness in you?" gently caress off Ben Franklin! That is perhaps the most disgusting honest attempt at an advertisement for Freemasonry that I could imagine. Just... what the gently caress.
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Jul 21, 2014 07:49
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codered11343 posted:"Is there greatness in you?" gently caress off Ben Franklin! I'll bring this up at our next meeting. We have a deputy to the Grand Master that's a member of our Lodge. Maybe we can get some official communication about this.
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Jul 21, 2014 07:53
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Aureus posted:That is perhaps the most disgusting honest attempt at an advertisement for Freemasonry that I could imagine. Just... what the gently caress. I am not the smartest person on the planet, but I imagine if I barged threw the door of lodge and said "I WANT TO BE A FREEMASON!", people would look at me funny and if I was lucky, be asked politely to leave...or give me a helmet to wear back home since I am clearly not right in the head.
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Jul 21, 2014 07:57
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codered11343 posted:I am not the smartest person on the planet, but I imagine if I barged threw the door of lodge and said "I WANT TO BE A FREEMASON!", people would look at me funny and if I was lucky, be asked politely to leave...or give me a helmet to wear back home since I am clearly not right in the head. If you barged into the lodge room itself, absolutely. If you barged in to a dinner we might have doubts but we'd talk to you about it. My best mate joined by just hanging around the lodge until someone went in and then asking them if he could join. I'll be honest. I'm somewhat guilty of advertising myself, but mostly in the sense of quietly mentioning to people I respect and think would be a credit to the fraternity that I'm a mason, and if they ask what that means, letting them know. I'd rather not but for my lodge it is now very much recruit or die - 90% of our membership is liable to die within the decade due to age and disease and without them, we won't have the members to constitute a lodge any longer, nor the experience to run a smooth lodge. Even in this state, I find the blatant advertising some groups do utterly distasteful, and that ad would probably make me walk away from joining if I'd seen it back when I was a candidate. Oh, we initiated a new brother last Lodge. That was a true joy to witness.
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Jul 21, 2014 08:42
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LivesInGrey posted:Is anyone here knowledgable about the lodges in Albuquerque? Reading this thread has made me very interested in at least talking to masons at a time when things are open to the public and to hopefully find one that'll accept a trans guy. New Mexico's a poor state, which makes me hope that dues are relatively low. Those are my two biggest stumbling points now that I know masonry requires curiosity rather than invitation. I didn't want this to pass unremarked, even though I don't live in NM any more and when I did I lived in Santa Fe, not Albuquerque. My personal impression was that the Albuquerque lodges are on the conservative side. I think your best bet might be Temple Lodge No. 6, but I'm solely going off my recollection of their having more younger members than average the last time I visited, which must have been 2007 or so. I believe there is a Brother who lives in Albuquerque or Rio Rancho, but I've never gotten around to getting archives and don't see any of his posts in this thread. I think he had a 40K avatar. I'm not aware of the Grand Lodge of NM taking an official stance on the issue trans folk being members/applying. Something may have been issued in the three years I've been away though. This is still new territory for a lot of Masons and Grand Lodges and I can't predict what response you would get. A lot of lodges would have members too conservative and set in their ways to accept it, while others would see it as less of an issue.
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Jul 21, 2014 16:58
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Remember also that the structure of the institution is that it only takes one regressive to "spoil the pot" so to speak. If I had someone who was genuinely trans-male applying to my lodge, I'd have no problem voting them in. (I leave what is meant by "genuinely" to more learned people than myself). That said, I know many brothers who are not so forward thinking, and if even one of them cast a black cube, that would be the end of the issue. I wish you good luck, though.
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Jul 21, 2014 17:15
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LivesInGrey posted:Is anyone here knowledgable about the lodges in Albuquerque? Reading this thread has made me very interested in at least talking to masons at a time when things are open to the public and to hopefully find one that'll accept a trans guy. New Mexico's a poor state, which makes me hope that dues are relatively low. Those are my two biggest stumbling points now that I know masonry requires curiosity rather than invitation. What gender is in your passport? That is the one that I think would count for me but I am not sure if this is possible around the world.
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Jul 21, 2014 19:04
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You guys should probably amend the males only clause before you let transmales in.
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Jul 21, 2014 19:23
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Sithsaber posted:You guys should probably amend the males only clause before you let transmales in. Can you elaborate on that or will we walk this familiar path again?
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Jul 21, 2014 19:28
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Keetron posted:Can you elaborate on that or will we walk this familiar path again? Males only is obviously a holdout of premodern gender roles and Man's spiritual relationship with God, so letting transmen in would make a mockery of your patriarchal tradition.
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Jul 21, 2014 19:31
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Sithsaber posted:Males only is obviously a holdout of premodern gender roles and Man's spiritual relationship with God, so letting transmen in would make a mockery of your patriarchal tradition. it's actually not "males only," it's "no women," get it right.
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Jul 21, 2014 19:46
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runupon cracker posted:it's actually not "males only," it's "no women," get it right.   secret lodge meeting in progress photos
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Jul 21, 2014 19:49
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Paramemetic posted:
Give that treehouse some sand on the floor and you have the best depicted lodge meeting in modern culture.
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Jul 21, 2014 19:55
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Keetron posted:Give that treehouse some sand on the floor and you have the best depicted lodge meeting in modern culture. You have revealed the 82nd degree sacred sand rite and must be punished.
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Jul 21, 2014 20:02
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Sithsaber posted:"Bullshit" And remember dear readers, Freemasonry isn't a monolithic organization with dogmatic answers to every question, and in fact has no Pope, despite Sithsaber's attempts to position themselves as an infallible authority on all things, masonic or otherwise. With that out of the way, Masons are still evaluating what the requirements for membership laid down by individual Grand Lodges mean in the context of the contemporary world. With regards to issues of gender, sex and identity, the opinions of the membership run the full spectrum. Some are hard line against admitting anyone who wasn't born with male sex organs and doesn't continue to identify and present as a male in terms of gender. At the other end you have Brothers who'd like to see membership opened almost completely and find the requirement to be male as antiquated and irrelevant as some of the other ancient landmarks which are no longer rigorously observed. My own beliefs are most likely more liberal than most, but more conservative than might be wanted by those with a serious investment in such matters. I personally take a candidates answer to the question "Do you believe in God?" on faith. Similarly, I'm not going to perform a physical and mental evaluation on someone who tells me that they believe themselves to be a man. If they're honest and can't honestly affirm that they are, then they won't pursue membership.
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Jul 21, 2014 20:20
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Keetron posted:Give that treehouse some sand on the floor and you have the best depicted lodge meeting in modern culture. They've never argued about who's serving what for dinner next meeting, so it's still short of a real meeting.
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Jul 21, 2014 20:25
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Stop hypocritically white washing the history and traditions of your organization. If freemasonry doesn't have strong roots in the bourgeoisie and patriarchy, Texas doesn't have a ingrained hostility towards tejanos and hispanic immigrants. You could chip away at the negative aspects you perceive, but this revisionism is a stop gap that can't plug up how antiquated the lodges can be. Ps. Christianity is patriarchal too; Allowing women to be bishops doesn't change that. It makes more sense to form a new dogma if the old one is opposed to the spirit of the age you adhere to. If you don't, the old ways could reassert themselves. Sithsaber fucked around with this message at 20:44 on Jul 21, 2014 |
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Jul 21, 2014 20:31
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Sithsaber posted:Stop hypocritically white washing the history and traditions of your organization. If freemasonry doesn't have strong roots in the bourgeoisie and patriarchy, Texas doesn't have a ingrained hostility towards tejanos and hispanic immigrants. You could chip away at the negative aspects you perceive, but this revisionism is a stop gap that can't plug up how antiquated the lodges can be. I understand your concerns. How may I make your somethingawful.com Masonic thread experience more pleasurable? I sincerely want to help you get everything you can out of this.
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Jul 21, 2014 20:49
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Sithsaber stop posting.
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Jul 21, 2014 20:51
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Sithsaber posted:Stop hypocritically white washing the history and traditions of your organization. If freemasonry doesn't have strong roots in the bourgeoisie and patriarchy, Texas doesn't have a ingrained hostility towards tejanos and hispanic immigrants. You could chip away at the negative aspects you perceive, but this revisionism is a stop gap that can't plug up how antiquated the lodges can be. You are more than welcome to form a new dogma if the old one is opposed to the spirit of the age you adhere to. I sincerely hope you enjoy it.
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Jul 21, 2014 20:58
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QPZIL posted:You are more than welcome to form a new dogma if the old one is opposed to the spirit of the age you adhere to. I sincerely hope you enjoy it. Spirit of the age (zeitgeist) is simply the mores, norms and value systems your society at large is moving to adhere to . Materialism and secular liberalism is just an aspect of it; an aspect that generally frowns upon mysticism, nonrelative philosophy and the segregation of the sexes. Trying to appease these trends (and diminishing interest in spirituality) further illustrates how degraded fraternal institutions have become. The Anglicans are going through the same issue, and have decided to downplay canon law and moral absolutism ( http://ww2.nationalpost.com/m/wp/bl...id-to-modernize) in a bid to survive as a deluded cultural remnant. Doing this to the freemasons makes people realize that there is no real reason to join freemasonry outside of mingling. Then people realize that most masons are old people, and that leaves the next generation not wanting to mingle with them.
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Jul 21, 2014 21:25
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Sithsaber posted:Spirit of the age (zeitgeist) is simply the mores, norms and value systems your society at large is moving to adhere to . Materialism and secular liberalism is just an aspect of it; an aspect that generally frowns upon mysticism, nonrelative philosophy and the segregation of the sexes. Trying to appease these trends (and diminishing interest in spirituality) further illustrates how degraded fraternal institutions have become. The vast majority of my Lodge is under 40. We do weekly road cleanups, hold community events, donate to local charities, run the Bikes for Books program in an entire school district, and even sponsor concert events. gently caress off. You've ruined the Adventure Time thread by being a complete shitstain, get the gently caress out of this one. And a good friend of mine has bone cancer. Just found out. I've got more important poo poo to deal with.
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Jul 21, 2014 21:34
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One of the lodges I belong to is first and foremost interested in the "mystical"/philosophical aspect of Freemasonry - that is to say, its connection with the ancient Mysteries. So, I don't buy your argument that this organization I belong to is trying to degrade itself to appease some sociopolitical standard. And yeah, some people join just to mingle. Different people join for different reasons.
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Jul 21, 2014 21:38
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I'd like to reiterate: sithsaber, stop posting.
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Jul 21, 2014 21:42
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7thBatallion posted:The vast majority of my Lodge is under 40. We do weekly road cleanups, hold community events, donate to local charities, run the Bikes for Books program in an entire school district, and even sponsor concert events. I like Freemasonry in principle, but I can see why most lodges are in decline. This is a pity because some people want a break from vapid media and would benefit from a humanitarian club that doubles down on history and philosophy. I'm not saying you guys should be the Muslim Brotherhood, just that you shouldn't weasel out of the issues with your group by blatantly half assing your way around what you don't like about it.
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Jul 21, 2014 21:46
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Sithsaber posted:The YMCA does the same thing, and they've grown exponentially after ditching faith and the rule against girls. I have to agree with the Pope when he says that passing on precepts leaves what you start out with turning into a overglorified Goodwill. We're in decline? Not in Washington State...
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Jul 21, 2014 21:48
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I'm not saying you guys should be the Muslim Brotherhood, but... lol
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Jul 21, 2014 21:51
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Membership is generally in decline, many lodges are struggling, and they should be. After the War, Masonry grew a whole lot, and is due for a correction. Things like those goofy advertisements are a result of narrow minded Grand Lodges focusing on a very capitalist growth paradigm. It's not necessarily the best way for the fraternity to continue on. I would rather like to see a return to form. For a spell, one in ten American men were Masons. That's simply too many. It's okay for the order to shrink. In terms of changing what it is, updating it to be more modern, this will happen as the people who comprise the order become more progressive. Forcing it against the will of the current brethren in benefit of the potential new brethren is a wasted effort. Let the institution be what it is, for chrissakes.
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Jul 21, 2014 21:53
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7thBatallion posted:And a good friend of mine has bone cancer. Just found out. I've got more important poo poo to deal with. Cancer loving sucks. My mom is a melanoma and thyroid cancer survivor, so treatment can work. My Lodge here does fundraising for and walks in the annual Relay for Life event for the ACS. I hope that your friend is able to walk at one as a survivor this time next year and you with them.
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Jul 21, 2014 21:54
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Glorified Scrivener posted:Cancer loving sucks. My mom is a melanoma and thyroid cancer survivor, so treatment can work. My Lodge here does fundraising for and walks in the annual Relay for Life event for the ACS. I hope that your friend is able to walk at one as a survivor this time next year and you with them. Well, she only knows it's cancer. No idea what type. So I'm not worrying. It's fast growing, which iirc means it's easier to treat. It's stage 1, so it could be worse?
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Jul 21, 2014 21:57
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Paramemetic posted:Membership is generally in decline, many lodges are struggling, and they should be. After the War, Masonry grew a whole lot, and is due for a correction. Things like those goofy advertisements are a result of narrow minded Grand Lodges focusing on a very capitalist growth paradigm. It's not necessarily the best way for the fraternity to continue on. I would rather like to see a return to form. For a spell, one in ten American men were Masons. That's simply too many. It's okay for the order to shrink. Seconded. I wish Brethren in general were more comfortable with the idea that a lodge going dark or merging with another can be a natural occurrence as much as the result of a set of problems. It's never going to be a happy thing for the people involved, but it is better overall if we have fewer, healthier, lodges than ones struggling along or chasing quantity over quality.
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Jul 21, 2014 22:39
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Glorified Scrivener posted:Seconded. I wish Brethren in general were more comfortable with the idea that a lodge going dark or merging with another can be a natural occurrence as much as the result of a set of problems. It's never going to be a happy thing for the people involved, but it is better overall if we have fewer, healthier, lodges than ones struggling along or chasing quantity over quality. This is very true, though the issue is you can go too far in the other direction, which is where my region is sliding.
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Jul 22, 2014 01:58
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Has anyone attended/been part of an official visit from one Lodge to another? I'm trying to come up with a relevant program as the visiting Lodge, but I'm having trouble thinking of something interesting and different. I don't want it to be the same ol' "Masonic Education."
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Jul 27, 2014 19:53
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runupon cracker posted:Has anyone attended/been part of an official visit from one Lodge to another? I'm trying to come up with a relevant program as the visiting Lodge, but I'm having trouble thinking of something interesting and different. I don't want it to be the same ol' "Masonic Education." Yeah. The only things I remember for anything being different really was a short talk welcoming us with a bit of the history of their lodge and quasi forced seating to ensure the tables at dinner were mixed between the lodges.
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Jul 31, 2014 18:07
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