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Again on Miller's Batman, if you was a surreal insane WTF reading, go for All Star Batman and Robin the Boy Wonder. If you treat it as an over the top comedy you might even enjoy it. Or hate it. Also, while it is not about Batman I really recommend Gotham Central. Basically a police procedural that takes place in Gotham. It was really really really well written and worth picking up to see how the cops deal with the villains in and life in general in Gotham City.
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Jul 17, 2014 18:33
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All Star is worth it for the scene where Batman and Robin paint themselves yellow and taunt Hal Jordan while smugly drinking lemonade before Robin kicks Hal in the throat so hard that Batman has to perform an emergency tracheotomy.
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Jul 17, 2014 19:27
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Dacap posted:All Star is worth it for the scene where Batman and Robin paint themselves yellow and taunt Hal Jordan while smugly drinking lemonade before Robin kicks Hal in the throat so hard that Batman has to perform an emergency tracheotomy.
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Jul 17, 2014 19:29
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Senor Candle posted:Yeah those are both terrible but they don't change the fact that DKR is good. But if you take it as a comic about superhero books in general, their place in the world, and Reagan's America then it becomes a much more interesting piece.
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Jul 17, 2014 19:51
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Timeless Appeal posted:The notion that the Joker's bodycount is in the 100s has become this institutionalized thing that really taints the character.
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Jul 17, 2014 19:52
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redbackground posted:That can't possibly be original to DKR.
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Jul 17, 2014 20:01
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Timeless Appeal posted:But if you take it as a comic about superhero books in general, their place in the world, and Reagan's America then it becomes a much more interesting piece. Wait...Miller was critical of Reagan's America? I thought he was always a right-wing nutjob and 9/11 just sent him over the edge. And I'll definitely check out 'Gotham Central'
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Jul 17, 2014 20:04
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Timeless Appeal posted:I'm open to someone disproving me, but you have to remember that The "Joker's Five-Way Revenge" was only thirteen years before The Dark Knight Returns. Obviously murder was definitely the Joker's thing by the time TDKR was written. But there is a difference between the Joker kills people and the Joker's killed nearly a thousand people. Murder was always Jokers thing, as seen in his first appearance. However, there is a difference between his killing when it was a small amount of people, and his killings now which are 20+
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Jul 17, 2014 20:09
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Pope Corky the IX posted:Wait...Miller was critical of Reagan's America? I thought he was always a right-wing nutjob and 9/11 just sent him over the edge. Miller's mind kind of snapped about 9/11 but he never really came across as a right wing nut job in the 80's/90's.
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Jul 17, 2014 20:13
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Timeless Appeal posted:TDKR is a good comic, but it's honestly not a particularly great Batman comic. I don't like a lot of the ideas it offers that are specific to Batman. The notion that Superman and Batman wouldn't be pals is silly and the idea that they would hate each other is a bit dumb. The notion that the Joker's bodycount is in the 100s has become this institutionalized thing that really taints the character. In TDKR Batman and Superman don't hate each other. They still care about each other personally they are just following opposing agendas. I look at it like the civil war brother against brother thing. The principles they believe in are bigger to each of them than friendship. Now Ollie, Ollie loving hates Clark in TDKR. I am also not sure why the idea that over his career the possibility that the Joker has amassed a body count in the high hundreds or more is unreasonable. Back in 78 Joker was tainting the food supply with Joker toxin. The guy loves to kill. He is institutionalized because he wants to be, Batman went away so he did as well. It all hangs together really well. corillon fucked around with this message at 20:30 on Jul 17, 2014 |
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Jul 17, 2014 20:27
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Pope Corky the IX posted:I cannot stand Superman. It's probably stupid and irrational, Yes. Read All-Star Superman. It should make you well.
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Jul 17, 2014 21:43
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Batman: Year One and The Dark Knight Returns are two of the best Batman books. If you're going to post in BSS just read them. Seriously.
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Jul 17, 2014 21:56
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Teenage Fansub posted:Yes. Read All-Star Superman. It should make you well. I dislike Superman and Frank Quietly, but All-Star Superman is awesome.
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Jul 17, 2014 21:59
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Waterhaul posted:Batman: Year One and The Dark Knight Returns are two of the best Batman books. If you're going to post in BSS just read them. Seriously. I did read Year One. I posted a list of every Batman book I've read so far and what I'm planning to read next on the last page.
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Jul 17, 2014 22:26
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Frank Miller seems to have really loved Ayn Rand forever. That doesn't mean he was (or is, I haven't paid close attention) party-line anything over the years. His work from the 1980s and 1990s is pretty decidedly anti-Reagan/anti-authoritarian and (at least intends to be) progressive towards women and people of color. Of course Randian stuff does allow you to slip into a sort of fascism where tools like Superman and Reagan and Thatcher and corporations don't deserve so much power because they didn't earn that power, but Batman and whomever else can do whatever the gently caress they want and society can't judge them because they're the best and brightest! So yeah, Miller was anti-censorship and anti-imperialist in the 1980s and 1990s, and some combination of 9/11 and aging (or maybe just having shifting perspectives on who the "makers" and "takers" are) make him seem like a nutty sexist fascist now sometimes.
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Jul 17, 2014 23:37
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Timeless Appeal posted:I'm open to someone disproving me, but you have to remember that The "Joker's Five-Way Revenge" was only thirteen years before The Dark Knight Returns. Obviously murder was definitely the Joker's thing by the time TDKR was written. But there is a difference between the Joker kills people and the Joker's killed nearly a thousand people. It would be interesting to see a sort of exhaustive chronological "rap sheet" of the character. It's a commonplace by now that in the 50's and 60's he mostly pulled campy crime-capers, and then in the past thirty years has been re-invented as a total mass murderer, but it would be cool to do a bit of generic distant-reading.
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Jul 17, 2014 23:59
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I love the Spectre, I have no idea why, I just think he looks like the coolest thing ever. But seriously, every time there's a Spectre/Batwing issue of Eternal I just go huh? at the end. And why did Batman shake Bard's hand? I hope he planted a bat tracer that looks just like a spider. (IFC plays the Adam West Batman show now, did you know?) Harper's Grifter mask RULED. Tec is a pretty book. I also like that it's making up some bad guys, even if they aren't that interesting. I appreciate the effort. Batman at this point I think I am mostly reading for Capullo. He is a pretty awesome artist. Also I just read the first four trades of New 52 Nightwing and it's certainly the most bland Dick Grayson stuff I've read. I'm glad he's a spy now.
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Jul 20, 2014 05:33
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Edge & Christian posted:So yeah, Miller was anti-censorship and anti-imperialist in the 1980s and 1990s, and some combination of 9/11 and aging (or maybe just having shifting perspectives on who the "makers" and "takers" are) make him seem like a nutty sexist fascist now sometimes. Nutty sexist fascist racist. Don't forget the racist bit now.
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Jul 20, 2014 05:43
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Timeless Appeal posted:TDKR is a good comic, but it's honestly not a particularly great Batman comic. I don't like a lot of the ideas it offers that are specific to Batman. The notion that Superman and Batman wouldn't be pals is silly and the idea that they would hate each other is a bit dumb. The notion that the Joker's bodycount is in the 100s has become this institutionalized thing that really taints the character. 100s isnt that much. For real life yeah but for a fictional character who bombs and poisons places thats like 1 day trip out of arkham.
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Jul 20, 2014 13:18
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There is a giant Batman sale on Comixology right now for a week. 750 issues from various books are on sale.
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Jul 22, 2014 04:47
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Waterhaul posted:Batman: Year One and The Dark Knight Returns are two of the best Batman books. If you're going to post in BSS just read them. Seriously. Don't bully people into supporting Frank Miller just because you're a mod, Waterhaul.  Year One was great, and I both enjoyed and hated ASBAR. I was pretty done with Miller after that though and don't feel bad about only getting halfway into DKR and have no compunction whatsoever about ignoring the poo poo out of DKSA.
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Jul 22, 2014 06:33
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ASBAR is a weird, unfinished mess that is either 100% satire or 100% sincere. If you're going to get bogged down in weird ancillary Frank Miller Batman, at leas Dark Knight Strikes Again is finished and has that Plastic Man/Elongated Man thing? I dunno.
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Jul 22, 2014 09:23
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Regarding the Comixology sale, how is City of Crime? Is it Stray Bulletsy? E: Also, Snow from LOTDK aince it has art by that Willworld guy. Is that good? Teenage Fansub fucked around with this message at 13:43 on Jul 22, 2014 |
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Jul 22, 2014 13:34
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Was Taters posted:Don't bully people into supporting Frank Miller just because you're a mod, Waterhaul. I'm pretty sure DKSA is literally Batman's shameful secret, so at least it's apropos. Although I've only ever seen David Brothers talk about it, good or bad.
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Jul 22, 2014 14:43
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Was Taters posted:Don't bully people into supporting Frank Miller just because you're a mod, Waterhaul. There's no such thing as bad Frank Miller Batman and I will keep that stance forever and you should feel bad about not finishing Dark Knight Returns  Well maybe not feel bad but Dark Knight Returns has a great ending even if the Superman fight has been ridiculously done throughout the years.
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Jul 22, 2014 14:52
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Teenage Fansub posted:E: Also, Snow from LOTDK since it has art by that Willworld guy. Is that good?
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Jul 22, 2014 15:11
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Rirse posted:There is a giant Batman sale on Comixology right now for a week. 750 issues from various books are on sale. I was going to post about this last night but I got lazy. Anyway which batman comics are worth getting from this sale that have never been collected?
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Jul 22, 2014 16:19
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Teenage Fansub posted:Regarding the Comixology sale, how is City of Crime? Is it Stray Bulletsy? I love City of Crime, I think it is a unsung gem of a Batman story. The short, non spoilery version of the plot is this. A little girl goes missing in Gotham. Batman decides to focus on this, and as a result starts kicking over a LOT of Hornet's nests in Gotham trying to find her. It's a great crime story featuring a man who dresses like Dracula and has a military grade jet. It skirts the grimdark line, but it is appropriate given the noir tone to the work. I'd definitely recommend it, particularly if it's on sale. I seem to recall Batman Snow was the Mr. Freeze story that looked sort of like a fairy tale, and was also really good.
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Jul 22, 2014 16:28
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Was Taters posted:Don't bully people into supporting Frank Miller just because you're a mod, Waterhaul. The first three Batman Books I read was TDKR, The Killing Joke and Batman Year one, this was just as A Death in The Family was about to be released. They are still my favourites and pathed the way for many, many more Batman books which I own.
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Jul 22, 2014 16:35
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I'm a huuuge Mr. Freeze guy and Snow is like the coolest looking story. It's rad.
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Jul 22, 2014 16:36
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Myrddin_Emrys posted:The first three Batman Books I read was TDKR, The Killing Joke and Batman Year one, this was just as A Death in The Family was about to be released. They are still my favourites and pathed the way for many, many more Batman books which I own. The Killing Joke is better than DKSA I bet.
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Jul 22, 2014 16:38
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Shame Killing Joke isn't on sale. Then again it probably wouldn't fit the dollar price tag since it wasn't sold as individual issues.
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Jul 22, 2014 16:45
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Was Taters posted:The Killing Joke is better than DKSA I bet. The Official Ranking As I See It: ▲ | Year One | | | | | DKR | Batman Vs. Predator | The Killing Joke | | ASBAR | DKSA ... | Death in the Family | The Killing Joke (Recolored Stupid Edition) ▼
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Jul 22, 2014 16:59
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If you want some great Joker stories get Batman 251 and Detective Comics 475 and 476. The Joker Fish and the Joker's 5 way revenge are classic and some of the best Bat stories ever.
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Jul 22, 2014 17:10
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Teenage Fansub posted:Regarding the Comixology sale, how is City of Crime? Is it Stray Bulletsy? I love Lapham and City of Crime is great. Not Stray Bullets-y, really, but well worth reading. I only wish it had been drawn by him. (I even got my issues bound recently)  
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Jul 22, 2014 18:22
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Brocktoon posted:I love Lapham and City of Crime is great. Not Stray Bullets-y, really, but well worth reading. I only wish it had been drawn by him. Those look really nice, I like them. Also put me down as another person who doesn't like DKR. It's easily my least favourite comic in my collection (and I wrote up a whole post about why not, but gently caress that).
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Jul 22, 2014 19:49
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catlord posted:Those look really nice, I like them. They do good work: http://www.herringandrobinsonbookbinders.com/
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Jul 22, 2014 20:29
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Waterhaul posted:Well maybe not feel bad but Dark Knight Returns has a great ending even if the Superman fight has been ridiculously done throughout the years. The actual ultimate ending of DKR where Batman starts training a glorified Bat-Army is how I wish the Dark Knight Rises had ended instead of what it got, so I'll agree that's a great ending. In regards to first exposure to Bats stories, I think the first one I looked at was actually Morrison's Arkham Asylum as a little kid, which scared the crap out of me and I didn't understand it, but it still left an impression. And there's a pretty huge difference between the Batman in that and Frank Miller's John Wayne Batman, and a big difference between Miller Batman and Batman: TAS Batman, so DKR has always not really felt like a Batman story to me, even if it is an okay comic story.
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Jul 22, 2014 21:05
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If we are talking about classic Batman stories we dislike, I am throwing in Batman: Arkham Asylum by Morrison in there. I remember hearing how amazing it is for year and years and then I read (well tried to read - I put it down after getting half way through) and it just felt terrible, like something some philosophy student would write without any awareness of story, or structure, or how human being interact. The only thing that could have made it worst is if the characters started quoting philosophers for dialog, which is what I kept expecting to see.
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Jul 22, 2014 21:24
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Brocktoon posted:I love Lapham and City of Crime is great. Not Stray Bullets-y, really, but well worth reading. I only wish it had been drawn by him. Thanks. Purchased. Now, how is Azzarello's Broken City?
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Jul 22, 2014 21:46
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