Ask me about Medieval History & Combat.

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask/Tell > Ask me about Medieval History & Combat.

HEY GUNS: Oct 11, 2012; FOPTIMUS PRIME

King Hong Kong posted:

I want an early modern history thread.

This one replicates our irl condition pretty well, in that we're shoehorned awkwardly in with the medievalists since there's more of them than us and they're way more visible (and better funded, god).

Edit: Most of the OP of that thread would involve telling people that our period exists.

HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 14:01 on Jul 22, 2014

# ? Jul 22, 2014 13:58

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# ? May 15, 2024 11:58

Cyrano4747: Sep 25, 2006; Yes, I know I'm old, get off my fucking lawn so I can yell at these clouds.

HEY GAL posted:

Edit: Most of the OP of that thread would involve telling people that our period exists.

Pretty sure that most of the first five pages would be people arguing over when the gently caress your period even is.

I swear, get three early modernists in a bar and you'll end up with four opinions about the temporal and/or theoretical boundaries of the field.

# ? Jul 22, 2014 14:10

HEY GUNS: Oct 11, 2012; FOPTIMUS PRIME

Cyrano4747 posted:

Pretty sure that most of the first five pages would be people arguing over when the gently caress your period even is.

I swear, get three early modernists in a bar and you'll end up with four opinions about the temporal and/or theoretical boundaries of the field.

I have opinions about this!

They're poorly thought out and ill defined, but I have them!!!

# ? Jul 22, 2014 14:51

King Hong Kong: Nov 6, 2009; For we'll fight with a vim
that is dead sure to win.

That depends on the history department in question. Many elite departments in the US have more visible and influential early modernists than medievalists, especially if you count the eighteenth century as an early modern century.

What's your favorite answer for when the uninitiated ask "Early modern? You mean like 1900?" I usually opt for "depending on the place, roughly 1340 to roughly 1800."

Edit: My reasoning for the start date is so that my adviser does not kill me. My reasoning for the end date is to reserve possible future justifications for money and so that people take me more seriously when I complain about the perniciousness of the Enlightenment.

King Hong Kong fucked around with this message at 15:56 on Jul 22, 2014

# ? Jul 22, 2014 15:45

Grand Prize Winner: Feb 19, 2007

Does it grind y'all's gears when a layperson responds to that with "Oh, you mean the Renaissance?"

# ? Jul 22, 2014 16:01

HEY GUNS: Oct 11, 2012; FOPTIMUS PRIME

King Hong Kong posted:

What's your favorite answer for when the uninitiated ask "Early modern? You mean like 1900?" I usually opt for "depending on the place, roughly 1340 to roughly 1800."

"Begins with Luther, ends with the French Revolution," is my usual oversimplified answer, but then I said that to a student once and he said "Ah! The French Revolution! 1848!"

I said "No, the other one."

# ? Jul 22, 2014 16:02

Kassad: Nov 12, 2005; It's about time.

Did he then ask if you meant the one in 1830? :v:

# ? Jul 22, 2014 16:08

Power Khan: Aug 20, 2011; by Fritz the Horse

What happens at 18:30?

# ? Jul 22, 2014 16:18

HEY GUNS: Oct 11, 2012; FOPTIMUS PRIME

JaucheCharly posted:

What happens at 18:30?

The French are going to revolt, haven't you been paying attention?

# ? Jul 22, 2014 16:19

King Hong Kong: Nov 6, 2009; For we'll fight with a vim
that is dead sure to win.

Grand Prize Winner posted:

Does it grind y'all's gears when a layperson responds to that with "Oh, you mean the Renaissance?"

That's a perfectly reasonable answer, even if it probably does not include the subsequent centuries. There is a reason, for example, that The [New] Cambridge Modern History begins with a volume entitled "The Renaissance" even if it has the late start date of 1493.

HEY GAL posted:

"Begins with Luther, ends with the French Revolution," is my usual oversimplified answer, but then I said that to a student once and he said "Ah! The French Revolution! 1848!"

I said "No, the other one."

At least he didn't say "Oh right, Les Mis�rables?"

# ? Jul 22, 2014 16:21

Power Khan: Aug 20, 2011; by Fritz the Horse

At least you didn't have a turkish colleague who was extremely motivated to write that group paper about Gramsci's prison journals with the info that the others collected. The result turned out to be completely unreadable, since he only could speak and write Upper Austrian dialect with attrocious grammar and had no idea what material was about. Well, his turkish was probably better, but I wouldn't know.

# ? Jul 22, 2014 16:29

HEY GUNS: Oct 11, 2012; FOPTIMUS PRIME

Grand Prize Winner posted:

Does it grind y'all's gears when a layperson responds to that with "Oh, you mean the Renaissance?"

No, that's a good thing, because it means they know that something happened at roughly that time. My answer to that is "Kind of, but my focus is later and I don't study history of art or history of science." For "the Reformation," replace with "history of religion."

JaucheCharly posted:

Well, his turkish was probably better, but I wouldn't know.

Probably. You'd think that college students can write in their native languages, but experience shows that this is not always the case.

HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 16:32 on Jul 22, 2014

# ? Jul 22, 2014 16:29

Cyrano4747: Sep 25, 2006; Yes, I know I'm old, get off my fucking lawn so I can yell at these clouds.

HEY GAL posted:

"Begins with Luther, ends with the French Revolution," is my usual oversimplified answer,

hahahahaha, I loving knew it. :haw:

Anyone who does anything with Germany/HRE/Mitteleuropa in general anchors the switchover from medieval to early-modern on religious or history of ideas issues. English/French/Spanish/sometimes Italian it's all about the shift from a Mediterranean to an Atlantic-oriented world.

I, personally, like to base my explanation on shifts in government types and state organization which leads to different beginning and end dates for pretty much every nation in Europe.

edit: wrong thread, but kind of apropos:

HEY GAL posted:

You'd think that college students can write in their native languages, but experience shows that this is not always the case.

I had a student once who was functionally illiterate in English. He was a native speaker from a non-immigrant background. (well, non-recent immigrant . . . he wasn't Native American or anything).

Cyrano4747 fucked around with this message at 18:50 on Jul 22, 2014

# ? Jul 22, 2014 18:46

Kassad: Nov 12, 2005; It's about time.

JaucheCharly posted:

What happens at 18:30?

It's when Parisians get pissed at the king for taking over Algeria to try and distract them from his plans to restrict freedom of the press. So there's a 3-day revolution that ends with a guy from another branch of the royal family becoming king. The rest of France goes "oh, okay then". And Algeria spends the next 130 years as a colony.

France in the 19th century was a hilarious clusterfuck.

# ? Jul 22, 2014 19:17

King Hong Kong: Nov 6, 2009; For we'll fight with a vim
that is dead sure to win.

Cyrano4747 posted:

hahahahaha, I loving knew it.

Anyone who does anything with Germany/HRE/Mitteleuropa in general anchors the switchover from medieval to early-modern on religious or history of ideas issues. English/French/Spanish/sometimes Italian it's all about the shift from a Mediterranean to an Atlantic-oriented world.

I, personally, like to base my explanation on shifts in government types and state organization which leads to different beginning and end dates for pretty much every nation in Europe.

I somewhat disagree about the Spanish, Italian, and French cases. France has, at least formerly, been associated with state formation while Italy certainly highlights the economic shift but definitely leans heavily on the Renaissance and thus provides the earliest reasonable start date for the early modern period. Spain is obviously commonly associated with the shift you note not least because of the events of 1492, but most early modern histories of Spain begin earlier in the fifteenth century because of Spain's political history and consequently have a break at 1700/1714. My focus is on administration and institutionalization between 1516 and 1700, but I include the early Renaissance because of trends in its political thought and ideologies in addition to the connections between my own work on Spain and Italy but also because it seems senseless to consign major components of traditional early modern history to other periods merely because I am not, for example, an art historian.

Anyway, perhaps I should construct an early modern history thread.

# ? Jul 22, 2014 19:21

HEY GUNS: Oct 11, 2012; FOPTIMUS PRIME

Kassad posted:

It's when Parisians get pissed at the king for taking over Algeria to try and distract them from his plans to restrict freedom of the press. So there's a 3-day revolution that ends with a guy from another branch of the royal family becoming king. The rest of France goes "oh, okay then". And Algeria spends the next 130 years as a colony.

France in the 19th century was a hilarious clusterfuck.

Sorry bro.

# ? Jul 22, 2014 19:22

esquilax: Jan 3, 2003

HEY GAL posted:

Sorry bro.

18:30? Such a time is meaningless to revolutionary France.

# ? Jul 22, 2014 19:44

Verisimilidude: Dec 20, 2006; Strike quick and hurry at him,
not caring to hit or miss.
So that you dishonor him before the judges

A friend suggested an artist to me who likes to dabble in medieval crafts and he's making me a custom scabbard for a couple hundred dollars less than what they average out to be. Can't fuckin' wait.

# ? Jul 22, 2014 19:49

Power Khan: Aug 20, 2011; by Fritz the Horse

Speaking of bladed weapons, you know a competent smith who could make me a shamshir?

# ? Jul 22, 2014 20:11

Verisimilidude: Dec 20, 2006; Strike quick and hurry at him,
not caring to hit or miss.
So that you dishonor him before the judges

JaucheCharly posted:

Speaking of bladed weapons, you know a competent smith who could make me a shamshir?

You could try Castille Armory on Facebook. He's located in Oregon and typically makes cut and thrust, but I bet you could figure something out. I'll ask around for anyone experienced with shamshirs though.

Edit: You could also just check kult of athena every now and then. You're bound to find one premade for a relatively decent price, just make sure to check if the smith is a good one.

Verisimilidude fucked around with this message at 21:01 on Jul 22, 2014

# ? Jul 22, 2014 20:15

Power Khan: Aug 20, 2011; by Fritz the Horse

esquilax posted:

18:30? Such a time is meaningless to revolutionary France.

What could possibly go wrong with that?

# ? Jul 22, 2014 20:41

HEY GUNS: Oct 11, 2012; FOPTIMUS PRIME

JaucheCharly posted:

What could possibly go wrong with that?

We're just as pissed at your system of weights and measures, Europe.

# ? Jul 22, 2014 20:59

King Hong Kong: Nov 6, 2009; For we'll fight with a vim
that is dead sure to win.

Early modernists, rejoice: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3652619

# ? Jul 22, 2014 23:18

Smoking Crow: Feb 14, 2012; *laughs at u*

I posted a thread about old music, which includes the Middle Ages. Have a look.

http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3652643#post432562012

# ? Jul 23, 2014 01:47

Verisimilidude: Dec 20, 2006; Strike quick and hurry at him,
not caring to hit or miss.
So that you dishonor him before the judges

JaucheCharly posted:

Speaking of bladed weapons, you know a competent smith who could make me a shamshir?

Some peeps got back to me and they're all suggesting BKS blades as a high quality smith: http://imakeswords.com/index.htm

They have a lot of fantasy replicas, but they apparently make really high quality real swords and will listen to your specifications. I'm not a huge fan of what they've made, but with a few tweaks and suggestions I bet it could be much less renfaire-y and more awesomey.

Verisimilidude fucked around with this message at 14:04 on Jul 23, 2014

# ? Jul 23, 2014 13:48

Nektu: Jul 4, 2007; FUKKEN FUUUUUUCK; Cybernetic Crumb

JaucheCharly posted:

Speaking of bladed weapons, you know a competent smith who could make me a shamshir?

What do you want to do with it? Replica for decoration or reenactment purposes? Showfighting? Fencing in the sense of a martial art?

The planned usage has a big influence on the sword you need...

# ? Jul 23, 2014 14:26

Verisimilidude: Dec 20, 2006; Strike quick and hurry at him,
not caring to hit or miss.
So that you dishonor him before the judges

Nektu posted:

What do you want to do with it? Replica for decoration or reenactment purposes? Showfighting? Fencing in the sense of a martial art?

The planned usage has a big influence on the sword you need...

It's why I suggested BKS. They can apparently handle any type of sword use, whether it's reenactment, wallhangers, fencing, or cutting.

# ? Jul 23, 2014 14:42

Rhymenoserous: May 23, 2008

Nektu posted:

What do you want to do with it? Replica for decoration or reenactment purposes? Showfighting? Fencing in the sense of a martial art?

The planned usage has a big influence on the sword you need...

A street sword. For crimefighting.

# ? Jul 23, 2014 17:06

DandyLion: Jun 24, 2010; disrespectul Deciever

JaucheCharly posted:

Speaking of bladed weapons, you know a competent smith who could make me a shamshir?

I felt BKS swords were pretty overbuilt. If you intent is to bash them up then its not a bad option, but the balance/weight was off from representative period pieces I got a chance to handle. Price is also on the higher end. Still, the quality was top notch, and If they do custom work you could probably get one tailored to your specifications.

# ? Jul 23, 2014 17:45

Power Khan: Aug 20, 2011; by Fritz the Horse

Dirty Job posted:

Some peeps got back to me and they're all suggesting BKS blades as a high quality smith: http://imakeswords.com/index.htm

They have a lot of fantasy replicas, but they apparently make really high quality real swords and will listen to your specifications. I'm not a huge fan of what they've made, but with a few tweaks and suggestions I bet it could be much less renfaire-y and more awesomey.

A german, czech or polish smith would be preferable (I don't want to pay a shitload of customs). I know a bunch of people who would/could do it, but maybe you know somebody special? Anyway, it's a theoretical question right now, as I lack the money. I'd only get a solid reproduction of a museum piece. One good for chopping up people or zombies.

I'll post this, because I figure it might interest you sperglords:

Today I spent 5 hours preparing sinew for a hornbow. This is easy mode with backstrap. It's just 80g, so ~70g more to go.

This is hardmode with leg tendon, which is shorter and alot more work, but leaves a finer texture. For a bow you need about 16 pieces, so that's a few days full time separating this stuff so that it looks like dental floss.

# ? Jul 23, 2014 19:04

Nektu: Jul 4, 2007; FUKKEN FUUUUUUCK; Cybernetic Crumb

Rhymenoserous posted:

A street sword. For crimefighting.

I have just the thing for you:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ug0SooC6hVY

Edit: owait, this is even better :laugh:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=-YvCcAJ5gn0#t=75

Nektu fucked around with this message at 19:57 on Jul 23, 2014

# ? Jul 23, 2014 19:53

Smoking Crow: Feb 14, 2012; *laughs at u*

Hi, a hopeful future medievalist here! I was wondering about what we know about Russian society and religion before the Christianization of Grand Prince Vladimir. Is there anything about peasant society before this or is it all court politics?

# ? Jul 24, 2014 00:15

Verisimilidude: Dec 20, 2006; Strike quick and hurry at him,
not caring to hit or miss.
So that you dishonor him before the judges

JaucheCharly posted:

A german, czech or polish smith would be preferable (I don't want to pay a shitload of customs). I know a bunch of people who would/could do it, but maybe you know somebody special? Anyway, it's a theoretical question right now, as I lack the money. I'd only get a solid reproduction of a museum piece. One good for chopping up people or zombies.

Let's see, there's Peter Regenyei in Hungary (http://www.regenyei.com/index.html), Syzmon Chlebowski in (I believe) Poland (http://www.szymonchlebowski.pl/sklep.php), and Pavel Moc in the Czech Republic (http://www.swords.cz/). Hopefully they can help you out! They're all really great, and relatively inexpensive considering the quality of their swords.

edit: Also sorry, I assumed you were in the US.

Verisimilidude fucked around with this message at 03:09 on Jul 24, 2014

# ? Jul 24, 2014 00:39

deadking: Apr 13, 2006; Hello? Charlemagne?!

Smoking Crow posted:

Hi, a hopeful future medievalist here! I was wondering about what we know about Russian society and religion before the Christianization of Grand Prince Vladimir. Is there anything about peasant society before this or is it all court politics?

Unfortunately, we really don't know much about the Rus before Vladimir's conversion to Christianity. In fact, we only know about Vladimir's conversion from Byzantine sources or sources written a generation or two after (the Primary Chronicle). The best studies on the period before are probably archaeological, since textual references to the Rus are sparse and are all written by outsiders. I definitely recommend checking out Franklin and Shepard, the Emergence of Medieval Rus, which is a really great introduction to early medieval Russian history and includes an introduction to the sources.

That said, the Rus seem to have been a small group before at least the tenth or eleventh century. They probably originated as traders from Scandinavia, who would buy fur and amber from the local Baltic and Slavic populations and then trade it for silver from Byzantium and the Middle East. At a certain point, they decided it was better to cut out one step in the process and started attacking the people they used to buy from, extracting the fur and amber as tribute. From this point, they eventually built a state, more permanently ruling the communities they took tribute from.

Edit: Christian Raffensperger, Reimagining Europe: Kievan Rus' in the Medieval World is a really worthwhile read, although he covers a later period. Also, Dimitri Obolensky, The Byzantine Commonwealth is also a really good survey of Byzantium's relationship with the Rus, even though he probably over-estimates the effects of Byzantine influence (Raffensperger really disagrees with Obolensky).

deadking fucked around with this message at 21:18 on Jul 24, 2014

# ? Jul 24, 2014 02:38

Jabarto: Apr 7, 2007; I could do with your...assistance.

deadking posted:

They probably originated as traders from Scandinavia, who would buy fur and amber from the local Baltic and Slavic populations and then trade it for silver from Byzantium and the Middle East. At a certain point, they decided it was better to cut out one step in the process and started attacking the people they used to buy from, extracting the fur and amber as tribute. From this point, they eventually built a state, more permanently ruling the communities they took tribute from.

I've always been curious about the Normanist/Anit-Normanist theories. Do those books you mentioned touch on them at all, or do you know any that do?

# ? Jul 24, 2014 06:23

Power Khan: Aug 20, 2011; by Fritz the Horse

Dirty Job posted:

Let's see, there's Peter Regenyei in Hungary (http://www.regenyei.com/index.html), Syzmon Chlebowski in (I believe) Poland (http://www.szymonchlebowski.pl/sklep.php), and Pavel Moc in the Czech Republic (http://www.swords.cz/). Hopefully they can help you out! They're all really great, and relatively inexpensive considering the quality of their swords.

edit: Also sorry, I assumed you were in the US.

Thanks, I'll save the links

# ? Jul 24, 2014 19:41

deadking: Apr 13, 2006; Hello? Charlemagne?!

Jabarto posted:

I've always been curious about the Normanist/Anit-Normanist theories. Do those books you mentioned touch on them at all, or do you know any that do?

Franklin and Shepard definitely discuss it, but I don't think Obolensky or Raffensperger do (Raffensperger's book covers a later period). F & S should have references to other work, but I suspect a fair bit of it is in Russian, which I don't know.

I think it's worth mentioning that even if the Rus originally came from Scandinavia they acculturated to the Slavic majority pretty thoroughly. If I remember correctly, for example, the idols Vladimir allegedly destroyed when he converted to Christianity were of Slavic deities.

Edit: also I've been spelling Shepard's name wrong. It's Shepard not Shepherd. Whoops.

# ? Jul 24, 2014 21:16

Smoking Crow: Feb 14, 2012; *laughs at u*

Was John of England a good king� or a bad king�?

# ? Jul 26, 2014 03:52

Arglebargle III: Feb 21, 2006

Bad, haven't you ever seen the Disney movie with the fox and the singing rooster?

# ? Jul 26, 2014 16:04

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# ? May 15, 2024 11:58

Randarkman: Jul 18, 2011

He doesn't seem to have been very good king material and most sources portray him as not much of a sympathetic person. But what really made stuff bad for him was the state of the kingdom as left him by his brother who had wasted all of England's treasury fighting wars in France and going on Crusade, whilst hardly ever setting foot in England.

Also, his reign did see his own judicial reform as well as the whole Magna Carta thing. So wasn't all bad, I guess, he was mostly left in a pretty bad position upon succeeding his brother it seems.

Randarkman fucked around with this message at 16:52 on Jul 26, 2014

# ? Jul 26, 2014 16:50

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