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Thauros posted:Why did they go back then? Wasn't following very closely in that period. Vince overreached, financially speaking, when the Viacom contract came up for re-negotiation and then got blindsided when Viacom just abruptly ended their talks. They called around to other cable networks but USA was the only one that was even remotely interested -- so they went back to NBCUniversal with their tail tucked between their legs. (This was also the genesis of SmackDown leaving UPN and going to The CW, then MyNetworkTV, then SyFy.) Just as they did in this year's negotiations. OneThousandMonkeys posted:People constantly mention the Death of WCW book, but I've never seen a mass-market book that was so poorly edited. Jericho's books seriously needed a competent proofreader, because the amount of hosed-up punctuation and flat-out typos is just astounding in both of them. But, yeah, Death of WCW can be painful.
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Jul 22, 2014 22:55
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Memento posted:Matt dropped the leg at ~220lbs and messed himself up. Hogan dropped it continuously for how many years, at 300+, in combination with the fact that his weight always lands on the same side, and ruined his hips and back. I read somewhere that he regrets not using something like the sleeper hold, especially since that actually makes use of his 24" pythons, the largest arms in the world, that he didn't use at all for his actual finish.
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Jul 22, 2014 22:55
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Pope Corky the IX posted:Besides the money, what other perks did they get with Spike? I believe they got a portion of the ad revenue. As for Hogan's physical condition, the guy did a gently caress ton of steroids and carried around massive unnatural bulk while doing an activity like pro wrestling. That's really bad for you. Not just your heart but your joints.
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Jul 22, 2014 23:00
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Here's kind of an abstract question: Did WCW's fans reject the David Arquette Champion angle only because the idea of a non-wrestler celebrity winning the belt under any circumstances, even by complete fluke over another non-wrestler, was totally unacceptable and anathema to the business? Or was it more because after the abuse heaped on them by Hogan and Nash during 98/99, they couldn't handle something like that right after Russo was supposedly going to revitalize the company, regardless of objective quality? I ask because I was watching the OSW Review of the Arquette "saga," since I knew nothing about it, and I was surprised at how sensible everything was structurally. Arquette was put into the situation by force as a way for the heels to get DDP's belt by beating a useless civilian rather than having to beat DDP. When Arquette won it was portrayed as basically by accident and he did it entirely through Bischoff without ever being presented as a threat to either of the actual wrestlers. His character consistently made it clear that he was not worthy to be Champion and in fact he even tried to vacate the title because of that fact before the heels stopped him for their dastardly purposes. The blowoff match between DDP and Jarret in the Triple Cage was actually surprisingly good and had some very cool spots in it. And they even had that neat swerve at the end where the whole thing was a con and Arquette made the deal with Bischoff to help Jarret at the expense of his friendship just so he could brag about being World Champion in the ultimate douchey celebrity heel move to try and get Jarret some potentially god-tier heat. Considering that this was booked by Vince Russo the story is almost shockingly logical. It's hard to see anything about it that was bad other than the premise of "Celebrity wins title," itself. And compared to how most celebrity angles are booked, with the Celebrity getting to punch out the wrestler and make fools of them? I'd take Arquette over that in a heartbeat. I kind of understand now why Russo defends that angle to this day. On the other hand, maybe it was a million times worse than I'm realizing because OSW Review only showed the highlights, and maybe a celebrity winning the belt is so awful it trumps literally anything else that might redeem it. Arquette himself even seemed to think so. And if I were a WCW fan in 2000 after putting up with poo poo like the Finger Poke of Doom I probably wouldn't give anything the benefit of the doubt either. Thoughts?
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Jul 22, 2014 23:04
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it's stupid wrestling titles should actually mean something and when you put the belt on a non-wrestler as a publicity stunt and your only defense of this move is "bro we got on the cover of USA Today" then you have nothing. Nobody took the angle seriously because it was incredibly stupid. It might flow from A to B to C logically but that alone doesn't make an angle even a little bit compelling or a thing anybody wants to spend money on. oatgan fucked around with this message at 23:12 on Jul 22, 2014 |
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Jul 22, 2014 23:07
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Sanguinia posted:Here's kind of an abstract question: Did WCW's fans reject the David Arquette Champion angle only because the idea of a non-wrestler celebrity winning the belt under any circumstances, even by complete fluke over another non-wrestler, was totally unacceptable and anathema to the business? Or was it more because after the abuse heaped on them by Hogan and Nash during 98/99, they couldn't handle something like that right after Russo was supposedly going to revitalize the company, regardless of objective quality? Just because something is coherent doesn't mean it isn't stupid, or illogical in the context of what pro wrestling is supposed to be (a simulated sport.)
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Jul 22, 2014 23:10
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Putting up the world title in a tag match is an iffy proposition even if all 4 guys in the match are top-tier. Doing it for a celebrity gimmick match, when the belt's already been treated like a party favour? REALLY dumb. In pro-wrestling, perception IS reality, and if the perception is that the world title is a joke that a 115 pound actor can hold, then the reality is that the belt is worthless. It's everything wrong with Russo's philosophy. Trading long-term stability and potential for short-term shock value and quick ratings boosts and publicity.
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Jul 22, 2014 23:12
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Sanguinia posted:Here's kind of an abstract question: Did WCW's fans reject the David Arquette Champion angle only because the idea of a non-wrestler celebrity winning the belt under any circumstances, even by complete fluke over another non-wrestler, was totally unacceptable and anathema to the business? Basically yeah, I know there's a strong argument against it but WCW purists basically saw the World strap as the legit successor to the old school NWA world title and it pissed a lot of people off to see that on Arquette or Russo himself. Didn't the Maestro quit over that as well?
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Jul 22, 2014 23:13
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It doesn't help that Arquette was a C-lister...it got them a minimum amount of pub for a harmful move.
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Jul 22, 2014 23:15
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Sanguinia posted:And they even had that neat swerve at the end where the whole thing was a con and Arquette made the deal with Bischoff o help Jarret at the expense of his friendship just so he could brag about being World Champion in the ultimate douchey celebrity heel move to try and get Jarret some potentially god-tier heat. That serve wasn't neat, it was completely stupid and sort of just thrown out there because ~*~SWERVES~*~ will be exciting.
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Jul 22, 2014 23:18
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Angular Landbury posted:Basically yeah, I know there's a strong argument against it but WCW purists basically saw the World strap as the legit successor to the old school NWA world title and it pissed a lot of people off to see that on Arquette or Russo himself. Put it this way, if you booked that EXACT angle today, with, let's say, Aaron Paul*. Can you see WWE giving the undisputed world title to Jesse from Breaking Bad and having him feud with Roman Reigns? How do you think people would respond to that? (*I'd say Jason Momoa because he's in that dumb biker movie WWE just made, but Momoa's got enough action star cred and physique that it might actually be feasible and it's not a good parallel to the geek Arquette was/is)
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Jul 22, 2014 23:19
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I dunno, I could see the fans getting behind the Bitch Movement
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Jul 22, 2014 23:24
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Memento posted:Matt dropped the leg at ~220lbs and messed himself up. Hogan dropped it continuously for how many years, at 300+, in combination with the fact that his weight always lands on the same side, and ruined his hips and back. The irony is that the leg drop is one of the least impressive finishers.
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Jul 22, 2014 23:29
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Gaz-L posted:Put it this way, if you booked that EXACT angle today, with, let's say, Aaron Paul*. Can you see WWE giving the undisputed world title to Jesse from Breaking Bad and having him feud with Roman Reigns? XBOX ON!"
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Jul 22, 2014 23:56
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It's one thing if it was an actor known for action films (still dumb) but they gave it to the guy best known for playing Deputy Dewey from the Scream franchise. Hell Patricia or Rosanna Arquette would have been more credible.
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Jul 22, 2014 23:58
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That was the biggest insult of all that they gave the World Title to, even back in 2000, a C-Lister who got into the press in the first place because of his marriage to Courtney Cox from Friends. In the context of wrestling, it was dumb to give it to an actor and expect him to have quality promos and especially matches because he was never formally trained yet WCW was expecting people to spend money on a PPV. In the context of everything else, of all the actors WCW could have put the title on it was David Arquette of all people which was WCW Dumb at its finest.
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Jul 23, 2014 00:07
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Gaz-L posted:
Yeah, when I was watching Game of Thrones with my non wrestling fan brother, the first thing he said after Khal Drogo's big rant about the upcoming destruction of his enemies was that Vince would be in love with the guy.
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Jul 23, 2014 00:21
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That's probably why Jason Momoa is in that new WWE studios movie, playing Roman Reigns.
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Jul 23, 2014 01:07
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Under the vegetable posted:That's probably why Jason Momoa is in that new WWE studios movie, playing Roman Reigns. Playing Roman Reigns, playing Lorenzo Lamas, playing Renegade.
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Jul 23, 2014 01:13
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David Arquette was in a wrestling movie that had a bunch of WCW stuff in it around that time, so it was a tie in promotion type of deal, not a completely random celebrity - http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0217756/?ref_=nm_flmg_act_54
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Jul 23, 2014 02:12
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Was Stevie Richards' WCW theme a knockoff of something? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUi5eRjKYFA e: It was also Lash Leroux's theme. That may be it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBUJB6hrWpo UltimoDragonQuest fucked around with this message at 04:43 on Jul 23, 2014 |
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Jul 23, 2014 04:35
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Supreme Allah posted:David Arquette was in a wrestling movie that had a bunch of WCW stuff in it around that time, so it was a tie in promotion type of deal, not a completely random celebrity - http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0217756/?ref_=nm_flmg_act_54 It's the equivalent of giving the WWE strap to Halle Berry then. Or the tag belts to the hot upcoming team of Scooby Doo and the mirror monster from Oculus.
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Jul 23, 2014 05:19
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Shoulda given the strap to Jimmy the King, brother.
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Jul 23, 2014 05:30
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Justin Godscock posted:That was the biggest insult of all that they gave the World Title to, even back in 2000, a C-Lister who got into the press in the first place because of his marriage to Courtney Cox from Friends. In the context of wrestling, it was dumb to give it to an actor and expect him to have quality promos and especially matches because he was never formally trained yet WCW was expecting people to spend money on a PPV. In the context of everything else, of all the actors WCW could have put the title on it was David Arquette of all people which was WCW Dumb at its finest. If Death of WCW is accurate on this point, Arquette KNEW it was a dumb loving idea, and that the fans would poo poo all over it, and pushed hard for it not to happen. Supposedly, everything he made on that run he donated to Owen Hart's family, and to Droz, so this wasn't even a case of WCW being blinded by a celebrity wanting to play wrestler. They thought it would be a genuinely good idea for this to happen. I would think that a book of every single boneheaded WCW decision or production screw-up would run into the thousands of pages.
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Jul 23, 2014 05:39
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Kwik posted:If Death of WCW is accurate on this point, Arquette KNEW it was a dumb loving idea, and that the fans would poo poo all over it, and pushed hard for it not to happen.
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Jul 23, 2014 05:48
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Kwik posted:If Death of WCW is accurate on this point, Arquette KNEW it was a dumb loving idea, and that the fans would poo poo all over it, and pushed hard for it not to happen. Supposedly, everything he made on that run he donated to Owen Hart's family, and to Droz, so this wasn't even a case of WCW being blinded by a celebrity wanting to play wrestler. They thought it would be a genuinely good idea for this to happen. Yeah, he donated it to the families of Owen, Droz, and Pillman.
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Jul 23, 2014 05:56
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The simplest reason I hate it is that it's so transparent. It's an attempt to grab in attention from other places by making a joke of the program for the regular viewers. Hearing that Arquette won the Championship might amuse you, but is it going to make you actually make plans to watch Nitro? Even if you do, will you watch it for more than a week? It is Russo's philosophy of "We got you", except you can't con people for very long. If you catch them with some non-wrestling thing, are they going to stick around for two hours of wrestling from now on?
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Jul 23, 2014 10:56
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Looking at the ratings from the time, it doesn't even look like he managed to improve them beyond a single week. Worth it 
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Jul 23, 2014 11:06
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If Arquette had a history of successful action movies under his belt like Bruce Willis, Arnold, Vin Diesel, etc. it wouldn't have been as big a deal. If he was an ex-athlete like Mike Tyson, Dan Severn or even Tank Abbott it would have been much more accepted as well. The fact that Arquette was a D-list 130 pound weakling who won the title in a retarded gimmick match was the real problem, along with absolutely zero forethought by everyone involved.
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Jul 23, 2014 11:49
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Memento posted:Looking at the ratings from the time, it doesn't even look like he managed to improve them beyond a single week. He didn't improve it for even a single week. The ratings went down, significantly. Arquette won the title on the Thunder that would have aired on April 27, 2000. The April 24 Nitro did a 3.1 rating. The May 1 Nitro did a 2.5.
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Jul 23, 2014 12:11
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So far we've seen 'B-List', 'C-List' and even 'D-List' but David Arquette was firmly a P-list celebrity at the height of his fame. Just wanted to clear that up. G'job all.
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Jul 23, 2014 12:18
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CopywrightMMXI posted:He didn't improve it for even a single week. The ratings went down, significantly. Arquette won the title on the Thunder that would have aired on April 27, 2000. The April 24 Nitro did a 3.1 rating. The May 1 Nitro did a 2.5. Hah, thought he was on the previous show. Totally worth it!
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Jul 23, 2014 12:27
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Well, he was a minor-and-yet-relevant character in Scream, which was a big movie. That makes him a bigger celeb than, I don't know...Pauly Shore.
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Jul 23, 2014 13:34
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At the time his main gig was 1-800-CALL-ATT. Or was it 1-800-COLLECT? The one that wasn't The Adventures of Bundy, Wayans, and Bitterman.
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Jul 23, 2014 13:36
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Who played the cops/Steph's security guard on Raw? I thought they did pretty well considering the scene clearly only had a loose script to follow.
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Jul 23, 2014 14:51
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Cavauro posted:So far we've seen 'B-List', 'C-List' and even 'D-List' but David Arquette was firmly a P-list celebrity at the height of his fame. Just wanted to clear that up. G'job all. WCW had already hired the Master of P-list celebrities at this point.
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Jul 23, 2014 14:55
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Paulocaust posted:Who played the cops/Steph's security guard on Raw? I thought they did pretty well considering the scene clearly only had a loose script to follow.
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Jul 23, 2014 14:55
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That one cop's "Thanks" after Triple H's hybrid crack still makes me giggle.
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Jul 23, 2014 15:08
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DeathChicken posted:Well, he was a minor-and-yet-relevant character in Scream, which was a big movie. That makes him a bigger celeb than, I don't know...Pauly Shore. Off-topic but the first Scream was incredible and David Arquette was also in a personal favorite of mine, Ravenous, so he gets a lifetime pass. I would also put Arquette as a solid C-Lister who flirted with being a B-Lister after the success of Scream and marrying Courtney Cox.
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Jul 23, 2014 15:48
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Kwik posted:If Death of WCW is accurate on this point, Arquette KNEW it was a dumb loving idea, and that the fans would poo poo all over it, and pushed hard for it not to happen. I've never totally understood this. Arquette made a movie about WCW, thats it. Did his contract force him to wrestle or put himself at physical risk? Why couldn't the guy just say "no, im not a wrestler" and go home or something? WWE can't force Hugh Jackman to become the WWE Champ because he enjoyed hosting RAW.
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