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That reminds me, Nerd Cubed did a video recently on Dark Souls 2. He hated the first one, but he picked up the sequel for cheap and put 30 hours into it before coming to a conclusion. That conclusion being: this game was designed for Klingons. He said it's the kind of game that appeals to a guy who would chew his own leg off before going into battle just to make it more of a challenge. His video did go over a lot of legitimate flaws with it and bad design decisions, which is why it ends up being more entertaining than any "X gets angry at a game" video. And he did still get a little enjoyment out of it, but he did put in a ton of time into forming an opinion instead of just playing for 30 minutes on a facecam and throwing the controller. What reminded me of his video is that he also brought up the lock-on. He doesn't even really remember which button on the PS3 controller it is because he never used it. He found that he tended to roll in a circle around enemies when locked on instead of away from them to dodge attacks, so he just stopped using it. He also discovered that it was really easy to just trick enemies into falling off cliffs instead of fighting them.
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Jul 23, 2014 03:38
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I think that's pretty cool, though. I love the Souls series, but hell, they're not perfect by any means. It's great having a point of view like that. Sadly, most of them end up being, "Oh man, this game is hard, why am I LPing this, this game sucks etc". That mindset always confuses me. I mean, if you don't like what you're playing, don't LP it! Even people who LP bad games find enjoyment in how stupid/bad it is.
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Jul 23, 2014 03:54
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I think Dan's general opinion on Dark Souls 2 is that it doesn't deserve the epic amounts of praise heaped on it. It has some good parts, but it tries too hard to appeal to the gamers who want the ultimate challenge to be fun to anyone outside of that group. He also pointed out a lot of bad game design decisions, like the game giving no information about the covenant you're about to join and placing Victor's Stone (which does nothing but make the game harder) right at the starting hub area where it's easy for newbies to accidentally screw themselves over by basically increasing the difficulty on them. And you can't even level up unless you speak to one particular NPC (who's not clearly marked and is standing a little out of the way) several times, which you likely won't have much of a reason to do. And it's way too easy in some areas to cheese the game by just dodging until the enemy flings himself off a cliff, which you get the XP for. Basically, he feels that the game goes too far toward the Sierra Adventure Game level of difficulty, where you end up screwing yourself over if you try to play without staring at the wiki or a guide the entire time. Which isn't what he finds fun.
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Jul 23, 2014 04:35
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chitoryu12 posted:I think Dan's general opinion on Dark Souls 2 is that it doesn't deserve the epic amounts of praise heaped on it. It has some good parts, but it tries too hard to appeal to the gamers who want the ultimate challenge to be fun to anyone outside of that group. He also pointed out a lot of bad game design decisions, like the game giving no information about the covenant you're about to join and placing Victor's Stone (which does nothing but make the game harder) right at the starting hub area where it's easy for newbies to accidentally screw themselves over by basically increasing the difficulty on them. Except the game gives you three warnings about joining the covenant which should make someone pause for at least a moment. Plus there's the Way of the Blue via the much easier to find Saulden, which is much more beneficial to join for a new player. quote:And you can't even level up unless you speak to one particular NPC (who's not clearly marked and is standing a little out of the way) several times, which you likely won't have much of a reason to do. Except she's standing between the first bonfire and the monument, wearing green against a golden sky. If you're paying attention she's hard to miss. quote:And it's way too easy in some areas to cheese the game by just dodging until the enemy flings himself off a cliff, which you get the XP for. Except that's more work than hitting them a couple of times? It's valid in that the AI could be better, but that's kind of a general complaint for any game rather than a specific one.00 quote:Basically, he feels that the game goes too far toward the Sierra Adventure Game level of difficulty, where you end up screwing yourself over if you try to play without staring at the wiki or a guide the entire time. Which isn't what he finds fun. His video is poo poo because his confused what he dislikes with bad game design. The Souls games are games that expect you to pay attention to your surroundings and experiment. It's fine to not like that but it's not bad game design. The games are not and do not attempt to be hard (the whole summoning system should make that clear) so much as requiring effort from the player. There are plenty of valid complaints (MMO-esque drop rates, level design being able to prevent an invader from getting to the host, certain weapons being outright better than others the majority of the time, among others) but none of those are ones.
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Jul 23, 2014 04:48
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My favorite part of that garbage post was how you ignored all the criticisms and instead talked about unrelated stuff.
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Jul 23, 2014 05:07
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quote:Except the game gives you three warnings about joining the covenant which should make someone pause for at least a moment. Plus there's the Way of the Blue via the much easier to find Saulden, which is much more beneficial to join for a new player. You literally didn't even address the point: the game doesn't actually tell you what it's going to do beyond "Begin an arduous path." He thought it was just flavor text for the game, since he already knew it was a really hard game and it seemed like a way you would start the quest. The warnings don't even do anything but make you hit "Yes" three times, without telling you if it's going to make flaming dogs rain from the sky for all you know. quote:Except she's standing between the first bonfire and the monument, wearing green against a golden sky. If you're paying attention she's hard to miss. She's standing about 50 yards away from the rest of the village on a cliffside with nothing to indicate that she's unique, and you need to talk to her unprompted multiple times before you even get the option to level up. The game never tells you that you need to do this and she doesn't seem especially unique in any way. quote:Except that's more work than hitting them a couple of times? It's valid in that the AI could be better, but that's kind of a general complaint for any game rather than a specific one.00 I think it's a valid complaint when the game is supposed to be extremely difficult and you end up winning hard encounters by just barrel rolling around until the AI fucks up, trips, and falls. quote:His video is poo poo because his confused what he dislikes with bad game design. The Souls games are games that expect you to pay attention to your surroundings and experiment. It's fine to not like that but it's not bad game design. The games are not and do not attempt to be hard (the whole summoning system should make that clear) so much as requiring effort from the player. You know, Dan actually talked about the Dark Souls fanbase and its weirdness. I don't think he was wrong. I don't even get how you can say "Dark Souls does not attempt to be hard and, in fact, is not hard" with a straight face.
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Jul 23, 2014 05:14
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chitoryu12 posted:I don't even get how you can say "Dark Souls does not attempt to be hard and, in fact, is not hard" with a straight face. Because it doesn't. Hard is something like the Ninja Gaiden games (original or remakes) or Metal Gear Rising on Hard, where you have to master the combat systems to do at all well. You do not need to do that in the Souls games; you can just bash your head against the figurative wall and make it through, and the game gives an out via the summoning system. You can make the games hard by limiting what you use, but they are not hard by default.
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Jul 23, 2014 05:19
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Dark Souls is a game about learning, like learning how you should never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever discuss Dark Souls with Dark Souls fans.
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Jul 23, 2014 05:24
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Genocyber posted:Because it doesn't. Hard is something like the Ninja Gaiden games (original or remakes) or Metal Gear Rising on Hard, where you have to master the combat systems to do at all well. You do not need to do that in the Souls games; you can just bash your head against the figurative wall and make it through, and the game gives an out via the summoning system. You can make the games hard by limiting what you use, but they are not hard by default. The True Dark Souls Argument Starts Here
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Jul 23, 2014 05:28
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Please don't argue with Genocyber, he already makes the Dark Souls thread unreadable at times.
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Jul 23, 2014 05:29
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chitoryu12 posted:You know, Dan actually talked about the Dark Souls fanbase and its weirdness. I don't think he was wrong. Hey can we just all agree that the Souls games are pretty much perfect and we shouldn't tolerate people trash-talking them at all ever because they are essentially ambrosia and I mean that in the way that they are basically gifts from the gods and not that they're some sort of food and that you should eat them because they're not food and eating them would make you sick because humans can't digest that crap unless you bought digital copies in which case whatever you can't eat them anyways because they don't really exist.
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Jul 23, 2014 05:31
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Blind Sally posted:Hey can we just all agree that the Souls games are pretty much perfect and we shouldn't tolerate people trash-talking them at all ever because they are essentially ambrosia and I mean that in the way that they are basically gifts from the gods and not that they're some sort of food and that you should eat them because they're not food and eating them would make you sick because humans can't digest that crap unless you bought digital copies in which case whatever you can't eat them anyways because they don't really exist. The real problem with Dark Souls fans is that the sarcasm and serious fan posts are identical.
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Jul 23, 2014 05:33
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I have never played any of the Souls series and after seeing how crazy the fanbase is, I probably won't. Doesn't even look like I am missing much to be honest.
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Jul 23, 2014 05:47
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Blind Sally posted:Hey can we just all agree that the Souls games are pretty much perfect and we shouldn't tolerate people trash-talking them at all ever because they are essentially ambrosia and I mean that in the way that they are basically gifts from the gods and not that they're some sort of food and that you should eat them because they're not food and eating them would make you sick because humans can't digest that crap unless you bought digital copies in which case whatever you can't eat them anyways because they don't really exist. agreed/
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Jul 23, 2014 05:48
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Genocyber posted:Because it doesn't. Hard is something like the Ninja Gaiden games (original or remakes) or Metal Gear Rising on Hard, where you have to master the combat systems to do at all well. You do not need to do that in the Souls games; you can just bash your head against the figurative wall and make it through, and the game gives an out via the summoning system. You can make the games hard by limiting what you use, but they are not hard by default. That sounds like a way to describe every single video game ever made. What exactly are you trying to prove beyond showcasing that almost every Souls games fan can be safely ignored?
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Jul 23, 2014 05:49
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I dunno, I saw Chip Cheezum's LP of Revengence, it looked pretty easy to me, it's just buttons and poo poo, right? 
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Jul 23, 2014 05:51
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ReturnOfFable posted:I have never played any of the Souls series and after seeing how crazy the fanbase is, I probably won't. Doesn't even look like I am missing much to be honest. You're missing a lot. Don't let a few rabid people keep you from playing great games.
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Jul 23, 2014 05:52
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ReturnOfFable posted:I have never played any of the Souls series and after seeing how crazy the fanbase is, I probably won't. Doesn't even look like I am missing much to be honest. Video games are really fun. Play them!
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Jul 23, 2014 05:54
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TaurusOxford posted:You're missing a lot. Don't let a few rabid people keep you from playing great games. Agreed. I have kind of issues with Demon's Souls and Dark Souls 2 (nothing major, just trouble getting into them) but Dark Souls 1 really is as good as advertised. The fans are nuts though.
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Jul 23, 2014 05:55
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TaurusOxford posted:You're missing a lot. Don't let a few rabid people keep you from playing great games. Totally this. You can play the games single player, if you would prefer. There's NPCs that can help you with boss fights, without having to interact with players, too! That's...kind of recommended, honestly. As much as I love the games, I won't defend the fanbase in the slightest.
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Jul 23, 2014 05:57
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slowbeef posted:Agreed. So tell me slowbeef, have you learned the difference yet between a Dragon, a Wyvern, a Drake, a Dragvernakedyke, and whatever the gently caress else the DS fanbase bitched at you about?
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Jul 23, 2014 06:00
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BMS posted:So tell me slowbeef, have you learned the difference yet between a Dragon, a Wyvern, a Drake, a Dragvernakedyke, and whatever the gently caress else the DS fanbase bitched at you about? 
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Jul 23, 2014 06:01
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slowbeef posted:Agreed. I'll replay Dark Souls 2 though. It didn't hit the peaks of the first game but none of the areas were as bad as the worst locales of Dark Souls 1 was. It was more consistent in general. Can't speak for Demons Souls because I don't own a Playstation 3 and have no real plan to get one so I can't play this game!
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Jul 23, 2014 06:04
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Why is it on the internet you can't say something is difficult without someone coming along going "Well I beat it first try with the starting weapon with no armour or weapon upgrades in 1 minute without getting hit once and never missing an attack, please stop playing the game so you don't continue to embarrass yourself"
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Jul 23, 2014 06:13
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Psychedelic Eyeball posted:Honestly, I prefer Dark Souls 2 over the first mainly because I thought the latter half of DS1 paled so much compared to the first. Stuff like Lost Izalith and Crystal Caves made it abundantly clear I'll never ever want to replay it. Make sure you get the dlc too, it's probably the very best area in the game so far!
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Jul 23, 2014 06:17
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Boxturret posted:Why is it on the internet you can't say something is difficult without someone coming along going "Well I beat it first try with the starting weapon with no armour or weapon upgrades in 1 minute without getting hit once and never missing an attack, please stop playing the game so you don't continue to embarrass yourself" Because bootstrapping yadda yadda yadda. Really the problem is that once people 'git gud' at a game they forget when they first started out constantly loving up jumping over cliffs and start demanding everybody know the all the ins and outs of the game like they do from the second they pick up the controller.
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Jul 23, 2014 06:33
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ReturnOfFable posted:I have never played any of the Souls series and after seeing how crazy the fanbase is, I probably won't. Doesn't even look like I am missing much to be honest. Fanbases suck for sure, but the Souls games are part of this extremely rewarding system of a game that punishes you for being cocky.
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Jul 23, 2014 06:34
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Playing Dark Souls solo can be hard sometimes but using summons liberally makes it really easy. If you are bad at Dark souls/games in general, summoning makes it much more manageable. Especially Dark Souls 2 since the summoning system is vastly improved and you can play almost the whole game with someone at your side (or scout new areas/bosses by being summoned yourself). The Co-Op system in DS2 is really fun and you should try it.
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Jul 23, 2014 06:53
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I think the only decent critique video I've seen of Dark Souls 2 is this one by Matthewmatosis he has a good set of problems which I also share about the game. There are spoilers by the way if you haven't finished the game.
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Jul 23, 2014 06:58
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Genocyber, buddy, I don't think you're supposed to embrace the thing that your red-text custom title makes fun of you for.quote:I AM A LIVING MONUMENT TO EVERYTHING THAT IS WRONG WITH THE DARK SOULS FANBASE. IT IS A MIRACLE ANYONE EVEN PLAYS THAT poo poo ANYMORE, THANKS TO PEOPLE LIKE ME.
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Jul 23, 2014 14:36
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Mr DJB posted:Genocyber, buddy, I don't think you're supposed to embrace the thing that your red-text custom title makes fun of you for. So that's what the Monumental is all about in Demon's Souls. I apologize, by the way. I used Dark Souls 2 to respond to something more LP related, but it ended up causing that whole tangent. I'll just sum it up with this: It's a pretty neat, if sometimes hard and frustrating game, and I would recommend giving it a shot!
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Jul 23, 2014 14:53
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RSCNyx posted:So that's what the Monumental is all about in Demon's Souls. You didn't say that it was perfect, you filthy casual. How dare you?
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Jul 23, 2014 14:55
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Dark Souls is fun! Never ever, ever, ever, ever bring it up in front of people you don't already know because you may set off a bomb that will kill your sense of joy forever.
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Jul 23, 2014 15:12
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Lazyfire posted:You didn't say that it was perfect, you filthy casual. How dare you?  I-I just like the atmosphere, though...
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Jul 23, 2014 15:38
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Lazyfire posted:You didn't say that it was perfect, you filthy casual. How dare you? Dude's not talking about Shovel Knight though?
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Jul 23, 2014 15:46
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The Vosgian Beast posted:Dark Souls is fun! Never ever, ever, ever, ever bring it up in front of people you don't already know because you may set off a bomb that will kill your sense of joy forever. Bring up what? Lost Izalith? Crystal Cave? Freaking Bed of Chaos. The uh... "hardcore*" fanbase? *Everyone who's ever beaten the game at least once. Those who can't or don't want to do it just need to "git gud"
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Jul 23, 2014 15:47
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IGgy IGsen posted:Bring up what? Lost Izalith? Crystal Cave? Freaking Bed of Chaos. The uh... "hardcore*" fanbase? Bringing up Dark Souls at all will cause an insufferable interminable debate. Such as right now.
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Jul 23, 2014 16:00
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While we're on this Dark Souls tangent, does anyone know which of slowbeef's Dark Souls videos has the most deaths? Or at least point me to one with a frequent number of deaths.
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Jul 23, 2014 16:48
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Honest question: what's wrong with the Crystal Cave? It just seemed to be a relatively quick romp through some crabs to get to a boss fight. One that actually got me. I thought I was going off the beaten path and exploring, but nope, they played me.
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Jul 23, 2014 17:08
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Suspicious Dish posted:Honest question: what's wrong with the Crystal Cave? It just seemed to be a relatively quick romp through some crabs to get to a boss fight. One that actually got me. I thought I was going off the beaten path and exploring, but nope, they played me. Invisible walkways kinda suck and combat against golems on narrow paths is a pain in the rear end? Also the one optional path there is a winding invisible walkway and that's no fun.
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Jul 23, 2014 17:10
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