FuzzySkinner posted:

See that's where I'm confused.

I'm for the idea of strengthening the rules against hiring illegal immigrants, but I'm for the generous visa conditions for temporary workers idea.

I'm also none to thrilled with NAFTA fwiw.

FuzzySkinner posted:

Because I've really grown tired of Fox screaming about ILLEGALS, and SHIPPING THEM BACK ACROSS THE BORDER.

Can someone provide me a legit answer to these problems? Like what would be a "SOCIALIST" solution to thing?

My father keeps claiming it's being used to mask drug runners or something of that nature.

FMguru posted:

His bio pic on the Reason website had him wearing a leather jacket (maybe it still does), which led to him being generically referred to as "The Fonzie Of Freedom" by a number of left-wing blogs.

eggyolk posted:

Immigration reform, the DREAM act, path to citizenship. Immigration is hosed on all kinds of levels but solutions exist. This deportation attitude is the same problem that caused this mess. Conservatives are convinced that the only viable permanent fixes are secretly a socialist plot.

isildur posted:

You're thinking of Nick Gillespie. And the Matt W. who writes for Reason is Matt Welch, editor-in-chief.

I mean, Reason is pretty bad, but they have some standards.

Mr Ice Cream Glove posted:

We are a Christian Nation:

The Treaty of Tripoli posted:

The Treaty of Tripoli was the first treaty concluded between the United States of America and Tripolitania, signed at Tripoli on November 4, 1796, and at Algiers (for a third-party witness) on January 3, 1797. It was submitted to the Senate by President John Adams, receiving ratification unanimously from the U.S. Senate on June 7, 1797, and signed by Adams, taking effect as the law of the land on June 10, 1797.

Article 11: As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,—as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen [Muslims],—and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan [Mohammedan] nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.

Good Citizen posted:

Most conservative 'deport them all' proponents are more concerned with being out numbered by non-white people and the likelihood of those non-white people voting Democrat because the GOP just can't stop acting like racists, though.

Good Citizen posted:

The border/immigration problem is a lot of different issues rolled into one and how you think we should respond says a lot about how you view America and how you differentiate between different types of immigrants. Like, I think there's a pretty good case to be made for the current wave of unaccompanied minors being refugees instead of normal immigrants which complicates things. There's also a lot of play between the desire to allow more immigration, especially in entry/mid level skilled fields, and US companies' desire to force down wages in those jobs.

FMguru posted:

His bio pic on the Reason website had him wearing a leather jacket (maybe it still does), which led to him being generically referred to as "The Fonzie Of Freedom" by a number of left-wing blogs.

FuzzySkinner posted:

My father thinks this is all a conspiracy done by the democrats to ensure they have a voting base for a long time.

"THEY'RE SHIPPING THEM TO RED STATES!"

I tripped him up with the fact that they're being shipped to California and Connecticut allegedly though.

fade5 posted:

I loving love that there is an ironclad, easily verifiable 30 second to the "America is a Christian Nation" bullshit that is signed by President John Adams, one of the "Founding Fathers" himself.

Shlomo Palestein posted:

My wife told me this morning of a survey that said Massachusetts (where we are) is 50% in favor of housing the kids, and 43% against. Not a plurality, but at least a majority. It warmed my heart just a little.

Mr Ice Cream Glove posted:

Mr Ice Cream Glove posted:

fade5 posted:

I loving love that there is an ironclad, easily verifiable 30 second to the "America is a Christian Nation" bullshit that is signed by President John Adams, one of the "Founding Fathers" himself.

hello internet posted:

As nice as it sounds, today's conservatives will always deny facts that challenge their worldview even with irrefutable evidence right in their face. Even if it is in easy to understand, childrens pop-up picture-book form.

FMguru posted:

See also: Jesus' black-letter declarations that you shouldn't pray in public, that rich people will never ever ever get into heaven, and that the greatest possible thing you can do in his name is to care for the poor and needy. They just bulldoze right over all that and say that Christ's message was clearly FYGM which you'd know if you read the bible, libtard.

Mr Ice Cream Glove posted:

hello internet posted:

I brought up that quote about rich people in Ezekiel to my tea party father who has been teaching adult bible study for 10 years and got mad at me because he never heard of it and "if it was true" I had to be misinterpreting the text.

quote:

On July 23, Fox & Friends centered a discussion on how undocumented immigrants in Brooks County, Texas are "bombarding" the police department with 911 calls. Host Brian Kilmeade set up an interview with the Texas county's chief deputy by claiming that "illegal immigrants are learning the hard way there's a deadly cost to crossing the border."

Kilmeade suggested Brooks County emergency response services might be strained because, "not only are they understaffed and lacking resources, now they've got to deal with illegal immigrants who have no business being here."

As an example, the program aired two emergency calls from Spanish speakers each identified on-screen as "Immigrant." In the first, a distressed male requests emergency assistance for his cousin, whom the man described as "turning blue." Another call featured a man and woman explaining to the 911 operator that they have not had access to water in three days.

Kilmeade asked the deputy, "So those calls, you have to respond to, even though for the most part, when you get there you realize, they're not even American citizens?"

Mr Ice Cream Glove posted:

Fox News at its best

http://mediamatters.org/blog/2014/07/23/fox-amp-friends-wonders-why-9-11-responds-to-em/200181

Mr Ice Cream Glove posted:

Fox News at its best

http://mediamatters.org/blog/2014/07/23/fox-amp-friends-wonders-why-9-11-responds-to-em/200181

hello internet posted:

I brought up that quote about rich people in Ezekiel to my tea party father who has been teaching adult bible study for 10 years and got mad at me because he never heard of it and "if it was true" I had to be misinterpreting the text.

This is also pretty good
http://www.politico.com/story/2014/07/jim-himes-caller-fox-news-109277.html

Guy calls into C-Span calling out Obama with nothing but Fox News talking points. It's pretty funny as well as the comments.

V.I. Lenin, Commie Bastard, and Definitely not Jesus posted:

So the last will be first, and the first will be last.

Radish posted:

One of my co-workers who wasn't born in the US had something apt to say about this sort of thing. He said that when Americans say "but" you just ignore everything they said before since they don't mean any of it.

Phone posted:

Uh, the Founding Fathers are George Washington, Ben Franklin, and Abraham Lincoln.

Jeez, fuckin' liberals.

PeterWeller posted:

Your co-worker is repeating an ancient aphorism that predates the existence of "Americans."

amaranthine posted:

Gonna have to take this thread on a detour to NRA FREESTYLE ZONE:

http://gawker.com/nra-lets-make-schoolkids-shoot-guns-to-advance-to-the-1609558333


The video is really worth a watch, it's absurd in all the funniest ways. Given that the NRA is pretty blatantly pro-gun sales rather than pro-gun rights at this point, I'm shocked that it took them this long to get to "let's mandate guns for children in schools". Also, not shocked that suddenly "government tyranny" isn't a problem for them.

Darkman Fanpage posted:

Guns make my life better. I can do so much with guns, such as:

fade5 posted:

Hey now, the Native Americans were here at least 20,000 years ago, and that predates the English language by a long shot. Admittedly Native Americans weren't considered "Americans" until 1924, and really 1975 at best, but still. Oh wait, by "Americans" you mean those goddamn Pilgrim anchor baby "Americans".

_{I will never stop using "Pilgrim anchor babies", it is the greatest ironic thing ever.}

quote:

RUSH: Well, ladies and gentlemen, the Israeli and Palestinian, slash, Hamas conflict has just reached a new level of seriousness with the low-information voters finally getting clued in. There is now a hashtag on Twitter. Can the end of this war be far behind?
...
Yes, ladies and gentlemen, a hashtag. #JewsAndArabsRefuseToBeEnemies is the new hashtag, and, as such, we can expect peace to break out any moment. Now, I understand some of you, "Rush, why are you so cynical about people getting involved and showing how much they care and trying to help?" I know these are the questions that some people ask. To me those are embarrassing questions. They're embarrassing questions to have to answer. No, no. They're not embarrassing to have to answer. Well, they are in a way, but it's embarrassing that they're asked.

This is what is becoming of what used to be serious thought. I mean, this hashtag is a direct product or a direct result of what has been said to be education throughout our public school system, conflict resolution 101, can't we all just get along, can't we all just be friends. At the root of it is the failure to accept and failure to believe that there are bad guys. And at the root of it is this ridiculous assumption that we're all the same, that we're all equal, that we all have equal amounts of goodness, and we all have equal amounts of badness. And if we can just get the excess of badness out of what are essentially good people then everything will be fine.

So we can shame the bad people with a hashtag on Twitter.
...
To understand this administration's lack of support for Israel all you have to do is take a look at the Middle East and try to find who a leftist would think the victims are. Because the victims are always what dominate everything. The victims are on whom and around whom policy will be based. Well, in the Middle East there is a singular power, and that is Israel. And, as such, they are the automatic "oppressors," as liberalism looks at things.

The "victims" are the poor Palestinians and Hamas, and all they are doing is trying to protect themselves against this vicious, all-powerful, unfriendly invader known as Israel. The left will always side with the victims, and they will always try to manufacture victims. In that scenario, victims are incapable of committing acts of evil because all they're doing is defending themselves.

All they're doing is responding to vicious, aggressive attacks by the evil power -- the majority, if you will. In this case, it would be Israel. There's a total ignoring of what is driving this, and it is nothing more complicated than anti-Semitism, and it has been around since long before this conflict began. There is no solution in this conflict that can be found by any government policy from the United States originated by any liberal Democrat.

It's simply not worldly possible, because they will not even admit what the root problem is. They will not assign Good Guy and Bad Guy status to the combatants. In both instances they're both bad guys, but the real bad guys -- Hamas, the Palestinians, you name it -- they get a break. They're cut some slack. "Because they're poorer and they're less educated and they're the chosen.
...
Never mind the fact that Palestinian and Hamas, Muslim Brotherhood, you name it -- militant Jihadist leaders -- were trained, they were collaborated with by the Nazis. They held something in common: The hatred of the Jews. The Nazis aligned, back in the thirties and forties, with anti-Jewish interests in the Middle East. There is no solution to this problem.
...
[T]here's gonna be consistent, never-ending, all-day-long, all-night, 24/7, 365 war. That is the natural state. That is what is normal for the enemies of Israel in the Middle East. Peace to them is simply a momentary lull, usually in the midst of resounding defeat where they have to take a time-out, retreat, regroup, rearm, come up with new plans, and then start it up all over again.

Peace to the Israelis is what peace is to you and me: The absence of war, the absence of conflict, the absence of threat, and the presence of justice. That's what the Israelis seek. It's not what the Palestinians seek. There's no two-state solution, there is no mutual accommodation, because there's nothing held in common here. For the longest time, in analyzing this so-called peace process, intellectually it's always amazed me.

It seems to clear to me. It doesn't matter. Administration after administration, secretary of state after secretary of state, it doesn't matter. We get the same application of policy. We want to sit down, get the combatants at the table, have negotiations, have chats, do whatever. It never changes. In any conflict, there must be a winner and there must be a loser, and until such time as that happened, none of this is gonna end.

I've always asked myself, "Why do we not just let Israel win?" What is wrong with this? They are our ally. They don't seek to eliminate all Arabs from the face of the earth. They don't seek to march every Arab they can find into the Mediterranean. They don't seek to bomb every Arabian capital off of the map. That is the objective of their enemies, though, where the Jews are concerned.

But this is a war, and you don't end wars with peace talks. Take any war in the past. For example, World War II, how did it end? Well, in Japan it ended when we dropped a couple of nuclear weapons, and that made the Japanese surrender. And that's when there were negotiations, and during those negotiations, we took 'em how it was gonna be. We won.

Ditto VE-Day in Europe, Victory in Europe. We defined the terms of victory militarily. In both instances, civilian targets were exactly what was sought. That's how you won: Civilian casualties. Bombing Dresden, bombing Berlin. There wasn't any such thing as precision surgical strikes. The two bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki were general population targets. That's what war is. It's horrible.

Once you find yourself in it, there are definite things you do to win, definite things you do to lose, but you do not win a war by having peace conferences. You don't have victory attached to peace talks. You don't negotiate, you don't send a hapless secretary of state all over the world trying to convince the two parties to do whatever it is he or his boss want.

It's just a fruitless, useless, wasteful exercise. I am 63 years old. The Middle East peace process is as old as I am. It's as old as you are. There hasn't been anything substantially changed in my lifetime, in terms of the nature of the disagreement, because the nature of the disagreement is anti-Semitism. Isn't it amazing?

People around the world will point fingers in blame at anti-Semites everywhere they can find 'em except where it is concentrated and focused in the Middle East; then they can't even find the word coming out of their mouths. And that's because the anti-Semites in this case happen to be the poor, hapless victims of an all-powerful, evil neighbor seeking to impose its will on the region. That is the perverted view that at least this administration has.
...
So Barack Obama has just sent or has agreed to send $47 million in humanitarian aid to the Gaza Strip.

You know why? 'Cause the Israelis are being really mean. They're killing people in the Gaza Strip. That's what John Kerry was trying to sound sarcastic about when he was overheard Sunday on a Fox microphone mocking the Israelis' pinpoint operations. The Israelis are not allowed a single civilian casualty. Hamas lives and dies on 'em. Hamas, the Palestinian Authority, you name it, the Islamic Jihad, is all about civilian casualties, specifically Jewish, Israeli civilian casualties.

But that's understandable because they're the oppressed minority. They're the weaker of the two. It's not fair that they shouldn't be as powerful as Israel. So whatever they do in the face of this big threat from this evil, mean bigger country, well, we just have to understand it. That's perverted thinking that leftist educations inculcated in the minds of a bunch of Americans. So the Israelis, one civilian happens to get killed in an Israeli response -- Gaza is where they're launching rockets into Israel, one of the places. Israel responds, and of course the Palestinians arrange for civilians to be killed by putting them in their military targets, converting mosques to military installations, taking over civilian neighborhoods and turning them into military compounds.

It's impossible not to have civilian casualties because Hamas sets it up. And when it happens, Israel becomes the bad guy. And here comes Obama riding to the rescue, $47 million humanitarian aid to Gaza Strip because the Israelis are not being surgical enough in their strikes. My point is that Obama's actions tell us exactly who he is: $47 million, not to the Gaza Strip, to the Palestinian Authority. Then what does he do? Then he closes the Israeli airport, first for 24 hours, and now it's been extended. You want to isolate a country? Keep people from going there. You want to isolate a country? Make it look like if you fly there, you're gonna get shot out of the sky. By who? The Palestinians?

We may as well give 'em a medal. Hamas may as well get a medal here. They have succeeded. This is exactly one of the goals of terrorism. You frighten your enemies into living normal lives. So here comes the United States right on schedule, banning American Airlines, United, Delta, you name it, can't go in there, can't land in Tel Aviv. Might get shot down. By who? Who's shooting at civilian airliners? Well, it's happening in Ukraine. Would Hamas do that? How come they're not the bad guys, then? How come nobody's condemning them? Why is it Israel's fault that American airlines can't go into Tel Aviv now? Israel is making it unsafe. Israel is threatening them by trying to defend itself. It's absurd.

So here's $47 million in humanitarian aid to the Palestinian Authority. It's a slush fund, make no mistake. We close the Israeli airport in Tel Aviv. Obama reaches out to the Palestinian Authority and Hamas, but he will not work with Republicans on shoring up our Southern border. He will not work with a Republican governor in the state of Arizona to do the same thing, but he'll gladly send his emissaries to sit down and work with the Palestinian authority.

Obama pledges more flexibility, bending to the demands of Russia. That doesn't bother him, whatever the Russians do (imitating Obama), "Ah, we'll be flexible, you know, got a deal here and there," but he'll shut down conservative organizations, True the Vote, other Tea Party groups trying to exercise their free speech and assembly rights, sics the IRS on them. Obama treats American citizens, certain American citizens, as a greater enemy than any foreign domestic threat we or our allies face. It's pretty forward stuff, straightforward stuff, if you ask me.

quote:

RUSH: Here is Osama Hamdan. He is the Hamas spokesman, and was interviewed by Wolf Blitzer on CNN's the Situation Room yesterday, and Wolf Blitzer asked the Hamas spokesman, Osama Hamdan, "Are you deliberately targeting Ben-Gurion International Airport?"

HAMDAN: What the Palestinians are supposed to do? To give their, uhhh, names for this Israelis to slaughter them or to trying to defend themselves? We were expecting that international community will protect the Palestinians from the Israelis, would protect the Palestinians from the mentality of Netanyahu, who lost his morals and his army also -- and, ehh, he's reflecting a new image for Hitler and the Nazist (sic) army. They are acting in the same way, killing the Palestinians just because they are Palestinians, like what Hitler was doing in the last century.

RUSH: Alright, now, folks, this has gone beyond absurd now. Here we have the modern-day Nazis. The Palestinians, Hamas, you name it, are the modern day Nazis where the Jews are concerned. They are the current incarnation of Adolf Hitler. It is their total hatred for Jews and their anti-Semitism that defines their existence. That's the root of the problem! It won't even be stated as such.

You know, whenever there's anti-Semitism in America, boy, people can't wait to point it out! They'd love to tar and feather as many anti-Semites as they could. But here you have a whole region full of 'em, and nobody will utter the word that describes the ideology of the Islamic Jihad, which is anti-Semitism. Militant, vicious, bloodthirsty anti-Semitism. This is now beyond absurd!

Here you have the modern day incarnation of the Nazis accusing the Jewish state of being a "Nazist army," is what he said. He meant to say Nazi, or Nazi-ist. (You have to allow for the speaking of a foreign language.) But this is just absurd. Of course incumbent in this sound bite (impression), "The Israelis are slaughtering! The Israelis are attacking! The Israelis have lost their morals! The Israelis are reflecting a new image of Nazist!"

And there's Wolf Blitzer just standing there listening to this? Nodding his head? I didn't see it, so I don't know what his reaction was. But that's how ridiculous this is. Ladies and gentlemen, ancient Islamic Jihad liters such as the old Grand Mufti himself met with the Nazis in World War II. They knew they held something major in common.

Yet they automatically are granted victim status!

It's just absurd.

It's beyond absurd. It's incomprehensibly stupid! It ought not be given any recognition. It ought not be given any cognizance. It ought not given time of day, this assertion. But that's the Hamas spokesman. So we get a hashtag (sniveling): "#JewsAndArabsRefuseToBeEnemies, please! #JewsAndArabsRefuseToBeEnemies. Man, I really, I'm a good person. Do you see my hashtag? I care. I wish they would all just get along."

Mr Ice Cream Glove posted:

Mr Ice Cream Glove posted:

Spacedad posted:

Oh wait, some of those human beings calling emergency services might not be US citizens.

Shocking I know, that emergency services has to respond to emergencies.

fade5 posted:

Hey now, the Native Americans were here at least 20,000 years ago, and that predates the English language by a long shot. Admittedly Native Americans weren't considered "Americans" until 1924, and really 1975 at best, but still. Oh wait, by "Americans" you mean those goddamn Pilgrim anchor baby "Americans".

_{I will never stop using "Pilgrim anchor babies", it is the greatest ironic thing ever.}