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Let me preface this by saying that I'm a big dumb idiot and I'm also like at least 3/4ths asleep. Ghost heat is terrible because it suffers from three cardinal sins of bad game design: 1: It's not obvious and intuitive. 2: It doesn't actually fix the problem it's supposed to fix. 3: The devs refuse to change it. For the first thing, game mechanics should be easy to figure out, and not require people to do stupid poo poo for baseline functionality. Also, it's a semi-obscure and mostly-undocumented feature. Just look at the difference between holding down the AC/2 button and clicking it every half second. It's such a dramatic increase in heat that you HAVE to stagger shots to use the weapon effectively, and most people probably won't figure that out on their own. For the second, as others have said, it doesn't actually affect the issues that led to them creating it. Before the addition of ghost heat, the game was dominated by Poptart 'Mechs, probably the most lovely of which was the 3PPC/Gauss Highlander. Games quickly became standoffs while jumping 'Mechs took potshots at each other until one side lost all of their poptarters, or until one side got fed up, charged in, and got blown to gently caress and back. The mostly terrible map designs just encouraged this, as many maps had large open spaces with little cover. Ghost heat was trying to fix a problem that didn't exist (Jumpers are shooting too many guns at the same time!) instead of the actual issue, which is that shooting while jumping straight up and down is a valid tactic. A more complete change would be to change the physics model for jumping, so that 'Mechs spent much less time in midair; instead of being a slow hover, it would be a fast jump followed by an equally fast fall back to the ground. Also, removing the ability to just jump straight up would kill that stuff dead. That leads to point three, however. Ghost heat doesn't actually stop what it was designed to stop, and in fact makes its counter even weaker. But, PGI doesn't give a gently caress, hasn't given a gently caress in a while, and probably never gave a gently caress about making a good game. Ghost heat is an easy band aid fix, instead of doing something that would require serious effort. Even if jumping was changed, they would also have to rebalance the other weapons, address the fact players are far more accurate then the dice in the board game, etc etc. The fact that they are selling gold 'mechs for $500 just reinforces the notion that they care more about making money in the short term instead of making a long-lasting, healthy game. I mean, let me just repeat the fact that they are selling gold robots for Five Hundred Goddamned American Dollars. gently caress PGI for ruining what was a promising game.
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Jul 25, 2014 11:54
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oswald ownenstein posted:You can do pretty well with Mediums it's just you won't consistently do as well as someone playing an Assault. You might want to post ingame names of everyone still playing so you can meet up/add each to friends list.
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Jul 25, 2014 12:26
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Ba Donk a Bonk posted:Ghost heat was trying to fix a problem that didn't exist (Jumpers are shooting too many guns at the same time!) instead of the actual issue, which is that shooting while jumping straight up and down is a valid tactic. A more complete change would be to change the physics model for jumping, so that 'Mechs spent much less time in midair; instead of being a slow hover, it would be a fast jump followed by an equally fast fall back to the ground. Also, removing the ability to just jump straight up would kill that stuff dead. They added cockpit shake during jumping which was good, but people complained about motion sickness. (lol)
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Jul 25, 2014 12:29
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This game was fun for a few months in 2012 but now is a steaming pile of hot poo poo, do not go to the website and do not download it, you will regret even those precious wasted minutes. e: Hahaha, OP is literally heffay Prawned fucked around with this message at 13:08 on Jul 25, 2014 |
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Jul 25, 2014 12:34
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AP posted:You might want to post ingame names of everyone still playing so you can meet up/add each to friends list. If anyone wants to submit their name I'll add. So far mine is the only one up there. 
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Jul 25, 2014 14:19
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Bubbacub posted:They added cockpit shake during jumping which was good, but people complained about motion sickness. (lol) My favorite hilarious thing about jumping is the voice that warns you about your fuel levels. In classic PGI fashion it's totally useless. The voice will warn you that you have 25% fuel left, and again when you're at 0%. But going from 25% to empty takes like a second on your average mech, while the warning takes 2-3 seconds to play. So you will be totally empty before the 25% warning even finishes playing. And of course it's the classic poo poo-designed message where the only pertinent word in the whole sentence is at the very end ("WARNING... Fuel level at... 25%). I just love that PGI fucks up even the little details. oswald ownenstein posted:If anyone wants to submit their name I'll add. So far mine is the only one up there. Don't worry oswald. You've always lived in your own little world, I'm sure you can play in it too.
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Jul 25, 2014 15:22
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Some classic bullocks from Russ Bullock before I go to work... Everyone really loves those things you guys hate! That 3rd person cam, such accessibility! And we made a new end of game screen or something? HUGE STRIDES GUYS.  Oh man, schedules are hard fellas. That UI 2.0 (that everyone hated) just took up so much time. Wow, that was a lot of time that took. Sorry we couldn't work on anything else, we just had to get that great UI 2.0 going!  lol
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Jul 25, 2014 16:21
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No, I mean the 3 or so green chalk-board diagrams that look like a 5 year-old made them. Those were super helpful. And anyway, Ghost Heat did fix something in  eyes, it punished optimal builds and encourages [BRACKET] builds, which is a mech that carries long, medium AND short range weapons. I've always had the impression that what PGI always wanted was stock pen and paper builds, and it baffles me that they went with an MW4 style customizable loadout system.
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Jul 25, 2014 16:23
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DiHK posted:No, I mean the 3 or so green chalk-board diagrams that look like a 5 year-old made them. Those were super helpful. I'm sure one of the developers said that the original plan was to have nothing but stock builds. That's why they had to go back and amend the early mechs to have the weapons you had loaded actually appear on the mech. Honestly, forcing stock mechs only would have probably been better than what we got.
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Jul 25, 2014 16:29
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DiHK posted:No, I mean the 3 or so green chalk-board diagrams that look like a 5 year-old made them. Those were super helpful. The Hunchback 4P is a stock tabeltop build when equipped with 8 medium lasers... which is a completly useless build in MW:O thanks to ghostheat. Or at least more useless than many other Hunchback veriants, while the 4P is awesome in classic BT, it's poo poo in MW:O unless you swap it out for some PPC/Las mix. Edit: Just saying, that besides not beeing able to fix pop-tarting, ghost heat also doesn't promote stock mechs; at least with the current selection of mechs. Feindfeuer fucked around with this message at 16:36 on Jul 25, 2014 |
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Jul 25, 2014 16:33
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Feindfeuer posted:The Hunchback 4P is a stock tabeltop build when equipped with 8 medium lasers... which is a completly useless build in MW:O thanks to ghostheat. Or at least more useless than many other Hunchback veriants, while the 4P is awesome in classic BT, it's poo poo in MW:O unless you swap it out for some PPC/Las mix. Before Ghost Heat the 4p was one of the best mechs in mwo.
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Jul 25, 2014 16:36
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Yes, I enjoyed it quiet a bit. But than I enjoyed MW:O quiet a bit in general in it's earlier incarnation.
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Jul 25, 2014 16:37
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I mean he's got a point. It's the people paying left and right that are paying for people like you, who self-admittedly have only ever spent $25 on F2P games (but have probably played a lot). But just charging some arbitrary high number is going to piss people off. Maybe if they added on other stuff like "dinner with us" or "party with us" it wouldn't make people feel so salty even if it's an obvious ripoff. Also, like it or not, but people like us SA posters represent a tiny fraction of the overall community. They're probably not lying when they say they have stats showing the popularity of certain features with the silent majority.
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Jul 25, 2014 16:38
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Chomp8645 posted:
Give this poo poo a rest. You're annoying ME at this point and I don't even read this thread or give a poo poo about this game
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Jul 25, 2014 16:58
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Kewpuh posted:Give this poo poo a rest. You're annoying ME at this point and I don't even read this thread or give a poo poo about this game Sir, yes sir! I'll just have to stick to making fun of the game instead. Shouldn't be too great of a challenge.
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Jul 25, 2014 17:05
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Feindfeuer posted:The Hunchback 4P is a stock tabeltop build when equipped with 8 medium lasers... which is a completly useless build in MW:O thanks to ghostheat. Or at least more useless than many other Hunchback veriants, while the 4P is awesome in classic BT, it's poo poo in MW:O unless you swap it out for some PPC/Las mix. And the Flashman, and at least one Battle Master build. Banks of medium lasers is no rare thing in TT, but they all had heat issues. Which PGI, in their infinite wisdom, exasperated. But I said bracket builds, and I am pretty sure at least one of those dingbats said that was the thing they wanted. This all boils down to PGI leadership sucking at game development.
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Jul 25, 2014 17:19
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Why the gently caress is there another MWO thread? Didn't we bring this game to rest 6+ months ago?
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Jul 25, 2014 17:29
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DiHK posted:And the Flashman, and at least one Battle Master build. Banks of medium lasers is no rare thing in TT, but they all had heat issues. Which PGI, in their infinite wisdom, exasperated. It's not completely useless though - you can put 6 in a weapon group and 2 and another and fire them one after another and be fine, or however you want to break them up. Annoying but it doesn't make it useless.
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Jul 25, 2014 17:31
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I patched MW:O in the background today (which took forever thanks to the ancient build I still had installed combined with the ridiculous bad launcher/patcher), and my Founder Atlas with two ER PPC and Artemis LRM packs doesn't get the new ghost-heat marker, and it's certainly not a bracket build call all those weapons are for long range murdering. Also the UI is still terrible, it seems you can now assign weapon groups in the Mechlab, but it still doesn't tell you where those weapons are on your mech, so you'll have to get ingame to adjust them correctly anyway if you got two arms set up the same way. also the mechlab is different, but in no way better. Not to mention that I had to downscale my old resolution that ran MW:O fine (1600*1200 to 1280*960) or the text would be unreadable and pixelated. That was kind of fun, as it resembled those 'hidden object' games that are all the rage on mobile devices as I only had a vague idea what it was I was clicking on until I found the options in the bottom left.
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Jul 25, 2014 17:32
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BadOptics posted:Why the gently caress is there another MWO thread? Didn't we bring this game to rest 6+ months ago? We're getting back together so we can all play Community Warfare together! It's right around the corner you know. Can't wait!
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Jul 25, 2014 17:36
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Edit: ^^^^Yay!  The only way to play this game is drunk with friends. The ONLY way. UI 2.0 is poo poo and most of the weapons still haven't been "aggressively" balanced.
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Jul 25, 2014 17:38
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DiHK posted:I've always had the impression that what PGI always wanted was stock pen and paper builds, and it baffles me that they went with an MW4 style customizable loadout system. I noted it way back, but even in the tabletop game freely customizable mechs were bad, bad news. It's dead easy to make a min-maxed assfucker of a mech at any weight class. That's not necessarily a bad thing in a single-player game, but even Mechwarrior 2 multiplayer was plagued by over-designed, alpha-striking hellboats and it hasn't got better since. It's ultimately an issue with the core design. PGI probably intended on using core designs and official variants, which would have let them segue into omnimechs and their official swappable pod designs, but they made the unfortunate realization that avatar customization draws a hell of a lot more attention than an assortment of virtually identical models. Even tactical shooter devs have figured that one out. Sure, there are a lot of old-school Btech fans, and people lighting candles in memory of MPBT3025, but you get a lot more immediate interest when you tell people they can get in and tinker with poo poo. Nevermind what that does for balance, of course.
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Jul 25, 2014 17:43
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BadOptics posted:Edit: ^^^^Yay! I may not be your friend, but I just patched the game and I got a bottle of 'Zubrowka' Vodka sitting next to me and a JR-7D(S) Cancer Jenner ready to go. Looking at it... what's the current 'safe' speed for a light mech, I think this one might be too slow in its current config. Edit: First Match and I lost all interest again, I'll just consume that bottle to get rid of the memory of having played it again. Feindfeuer fucked around with this message at 18:03 on Jul 25, 2014 |
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Jul 25, 2014 17:54
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I... I was a founder. I remember being so loving stoked for this game. I remember the squawking. My first Lunchback. The amazing core gunplay. Victory Road. The fun. It's all gone, like pubbie tears in the rain 
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Jul 25, 2014 18:13
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DiHK posted:No, I mean the 3 or so green chalk-board diagrams that look like a 5 year-old made them. Those were super helpful.  Motherfucking Comic Sans yo!
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Jul 25, 2014 18:19
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Bubbacub posted:They added cockpit shake during jumping which was good, but people complained about motion sickness. (lol) Hahaha yeah so that actually DID cut back jumpsniping significantly -- one of PGI's initial goals for MWO, actually. They very quickly undid this one good change. A problem was also that one single jumpjet was about as effective as four of them, so you could quick-fit any mech to be a jumpsniper without really dedicating much weight/space to the gear. They could easily reach the high ground and/or find cover. This disparity was increased when PGI nerfed the ability for mechs to walk up slopes (hilariously resulting in bumps on flat ground bringing mechs to a standstill), which only made life harder for anybody trying to sprint across a no-man's-land or reach a hill to avoid sniper fire. Basically PGI had a recipe for a dominant build, and kept beating the poo poo out of its competition. A popular build that fit on maybe 2 mechs total was a very close-range mech that only had two huge guns to pop you I the face, pair of AC/20 guns that are great up close but do no damage past about 500m. Ghost heat killed it, doubled its heat. Meanwhile the jump-snipe-capable 2PPC+1Gauss had more DPS and a range of 2 kilometers and ghost heat did nothing to it.
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Jul 25, 2014 18:31
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koolkal posted:
gently caress yeah comic sans, bitches. See how much clearer it all is now? anywho, yeah you can group weapons and alter the loadout to make it viable. viability != "a good game". Custimization is a great selling point but it's a thing that shouldn't be left to people who stick their thumbs in their ears and scream "LALALALA" or design their way out of a coke bag.
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Jul 25, 2014 18:50
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The one thing I do like about Ghost Heat is that you know anybody who likes it is either completely ignorant of what it is or a loving moron. Or they just really, really like jump sniping. Edit: I like thinking about the history of the PPC. It went from being terrible do to slightly too much heat and moving slightly too slowly, and it became very powerful by just a few relatively small tweaks to those values. And then Ghost Heat was supposed to balance them. Amazing. Lemming fucked around with this message at 18:59 on Jul 25, 2014 |
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Jul 25, 2014 18:57
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Feindfeuer posted:I may not be your friend, but I just patched the game and I got a bottle of 'Zubrowka' Vodka sitting next to me and a JR-7D(S) Cancer Jenner ready to go. Looking at it... what's the current 'safe' speed for a light mech, I think this one might be too slow in its current config. XL 295 + speed tweak is the only way to do anything IMO. Any slower light mech builds are just suicide.
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Jul 25, 2014 21:00
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oswald ownenstein posted:Also, like it or not, but people like us SA posters represent a tiny fraction of the overall community. They're probably not lying when they say they have stats showing the popularity of certain features with the silent majority. I don't mean to give you a load of crap or anything but PGI raised ~5 million from the founders to make the game, then later turned round and added 3rd person when they'd specifically said they'd never do that. Over 90% of people in months worth of polls constantly showed the community hated the idea of 3rd person and then they went and added it anyway, clearly because they thought the game was too hard to learn, based in part on the opinion of a 12 year old. Killing game depth was a conscious decision based on a bet it would make them more money. I don't really care about 3rd person as I think anyone using it is an idiot but this was going on at the same time as dozens of other things where what they said didn't actually match reality by anyone who played the game a fair bit. "That was our position at the time". I don't even have much of a problem with them thinking they can get more money by screwing the founders, it's a business I can understand that. They are proven liars though, so you might want to constantly keep that in mind before you give them credit for representing the silent majority. Obviously the game community they have now is different to then. But I've started playing again after a break of over a year and it's funny how many recent changes are things players requested a long time ago, fixing srms, nerfing jump snipers, gauss nerf is stupid but at least it broke up the 2 pcc/gauss build. So I suspect they are hoping to appeal to the older playerbase again now that they might actually start working on community warfare. But it's going to be too little too late for an awful lot of people, they still don't have a clue to fix mediums and lights back to where they where 18 months ago. Russ was actively trolling founders on twitter at several points during all the fuss about them being giant idiots, so if they are actively trying to improve things after all this time, it's kinda funny. AP fucked around with this message at 12:29 on Jul 26, 2014 |
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Jul 25, 2014 21:10
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Blazing Ownager posted:My unit dropped the game as a serious experience and last time I tried to load it to play casually it literally crashed my modem upon connection. I've never, ever had a game do that before. I had to physically reboot it. Probably tied to some recent issues I've had, but still pretty hilarious. I patched this up today after about 6 months of letting it sit idle. I played one match then the power on my block went out for over an hour. Somewhere, Paul was smiling I swear to it.
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Jul 25, 2014 23:18
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TeeMerk posted:I patched this up today after about 6 months of letting it sit idle. I played one match then the power on my block went out for over an hour. I miss you homo-robo-bro.
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Jul 26, 2014 03:49
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TeeMerk posted:I patched this up today after about 6 months of letting it sit idle. I played one match then the power on my block went out for over an hour. Let's play dude. I won't tell anyone. It would be nice to have someone to queue with because solo queuing all the time sucks.
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Jul 26, 2014 04:04
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AP posted:too late for an awful lot Pun intended?
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Jul 26, 2014 04:14
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Yeah I also just re-installed today after a 6 month break. Where are goons playing for VOIP now? I lost my WOL mumble info in a reformat.
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Jul 26, 2014 07:48
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I doubt WOL is still a thing, so your best bet is probably to get into the CTS mumble were all the other 'non organized' goon game communities hang out and hope you'll find someone to play robots of regret with you.
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Jul 26, 2014 08:28
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There's usually a fair amount of people on the Comstar NA TeamSpeak server as well.
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Jul 26, 2014 08:57
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oswald ownenstein posted:It's not completely useless though - you can put 6 in a weapon group and 2 and another and fire them one after another and be fine, or however you want to break them up. So you spend twice as long looking straight at them with your CT fully exposed to return fire. Great.
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Jul 27, 2014 00:02
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Something I'd like to verify before I add to the OP: Efficiency bonuses - do those double your 'basic tier' bonuses, by having all the 'elite' tier bonuses unlocked? If so that's pretty incredible and should go in the OP. (Also explains why you'll suck so, so bad while on the way to unlocking all that stuff)
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Jul 27, 2014 00:02
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None of that poo poo really matters except for speed tweak.
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Jul 27, 2014 00:05
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