|
smilingfish posted:Smallpox Debate Thread: Sometimes, we also talk about the anti-vaccination movement. I really wish Ogmius would answer Obdicut's questions on why he argued for so long being aware he was completely wrong, and why he purposely ignored evidence that he knew proved him wrong. Why did he keep beating his drum well afterwards? Why continue making poo poo up when you know you're wrong and people are going to call you out? This would be a great insight into the mind of anti-vaxxers.
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2014 19:03
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 25, 2024 06:09 |
|
|
He already furnished an answer:Ogmius815 posted:I didn't see any clear benefits explained until E-tank's post like an hour ago. I tried to ignore that for a few minutes because I don't like to lose arguments on the internet okay guys? Sorry.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2014 19:47
|
|
|
I sat down to check the 250+ posts in this thread thinking "oh, hey, some antivaxxer did something stupid again" but nooooo, ten pages of poxchat. I used to like this thread. 
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2014 02:23
|
|
|
TheKennedys posted:I sat down to check the 250+ posts in this thread thinking "oh, hey, some antivaxxer did something stupid again" but nooooo, ten pages of poxchat. I used to like this thread. I'd say it's a very similar discussion: irrational fears, a conspiracy theory about scientists, and people with no actual knowledge of the field thinking that it's perfectly fine for them to make judgements about it.
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2014 02:40
|
|
|
TheKennedys posted:I sat down to check the 250+ posts in this thread thinking "oh, hey, some antivaxxer did something stupid again" but nooooo, ten pages of poxchat. I used to like this thread. And this is totally getting it back on track somehow. Somehow. So I'm not a hypocrite, have a Daily Show article from Salon. http://www.salon.com/2014/06/03/the_daily_show_anti_vaxxers_are_the_climate_denying_nutjobs_of_the_left/ Edit: Obdicut posted:I'd say it's a very similar discussion: irrational fears, a conspiracy theory about scientists, and people with no actual knowledge of the field thinking that it's perfectly fine for them to make judgements about it. That too. It does sort of smack of a bunch of fear mongering that scientists and doctors researching viruses and their potential beneficial uses are really out to kill us all and can't let go of their toys. 
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2014 02:42
|
|
|
E-Tank posted:And this is totally getting it back on track somehow. Somehow. What's fun about that article to me is how much credibility antivaxxers have lost in light of the recent measles outbreaks. The whole ideology is getting pushed out into the fringes where it belongs.
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2014 03:51
|
|
|
Cercadelmar posted:What's fun about that article to me is how much credibility antivaxxers have lost in light of the recent measles outbreaks. The whole ideology is getting pushed out into the fringes where it belongs. Until there arises up a new generation over America, who will not have known Measles, and so will think that Vaccines are Not Necessary and also cause Leprosy or something, Despite the best Evidence. Selah.
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2014 03:54
|
|
|
Absurd Alhazred posted:Until there arises up a new generation over America, who will not have known Measles, and so will think that Vaccines are Not Necessary and also cause Leprosy or something, Despite the best Evidence. Selah. Now I finally understand why God kept asking Moses to let Him kill all the Israelites every time He dazzled them with a miracle to save their asses and two hours later they'd forgotten all about it and were worshiping random animals or whatever.
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2014 04:32
|
|
|
VitalSigns posted:Now I finally understand why God kept asking Moses to let Him kill all the Israelites every time He dazzled them with a miracle to save their asses and two hours later they'd forgotten all about it and were worshiping random animals or whatever. They sure are a stiff-necked people. But I'm sure a trip to the chiropractor can fix that! 
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2014 04:45
|
|
|
Absurd Alhazred posted:Until there arises up a new generation over America, who will not have known Measles, and so will think that Vaccines are Not Necessary and also cause Leprosy or something, Despite the best Evidence. Selah. So it goes Did you know that you can heal your body with a magic wand? It only costs $60! I've purchased 10 for the discount and so that I can put them all over the house like they recommend (keeps food fresh!) quote:HOW TO USE THE NANO ENERGY WAND:
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2014 06:55
|
|
|
QuarkJets posted:PETS Even your dog would think you're an idiot.
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2014 10:01
|
|
|
QuarkJets posted:So it goes Also known as "things that happen when stationery businesses run out of ideas". Seriously, it looks like a ~premium~ (not actually premium) advertising ballpoint pen that doesn't work. e: apparently it works with zero point energy, does that mean I can take it through the stargate and stick it into ancient spaceships I happen to find? suck my woke dick fucked around with this message at 11:08 on Jul 15, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2014 11:05
|
|
I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
|
blowfish posted:Also known as "things that happen when stationery businesses run out of ideas". I also like how it gets more expensive the further down the page you get.
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2014 11:18
|
|
|
Its regular price is 150$, how do people who believe in magic writing untensils afford to get scammed so much?
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2014 12:05
|
|
|
Cercadelmar posted:Its regular price is 150$, how do people who believe in magic writing untensils afford to get scammed so much? But it retails for $300! The savings!
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2014 12:15
|
|
|
The Chiropracty discussion seems to come and go quickly, but I haven't seen it brought up yet that neck manipulations can increase your chance of stroke. So even though there doesn't seem to be consensus on just how big of a risk this poses (Most opinions say it's a lower end risk), at least be aware to not get your neck fondled if you're only having back pain and be mindful of any dizziness, blurred vision, or any other abnormal feelings after you do get a neck manipulation and see a real doctor immediately. Lead Psychiatry fucked around with this message at 12:27 on Jul 15, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2014 12:23
|
|
|
E-Tank posted:And this is totally getting it back on track somehow. Somehow. Some things just can't be made funny. I think Bee kind of figured out during the making of that piece that anti-vax stuff is just horrible and evil. Her narration at the end is pretty much just explaining how bad things are.
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2014 13:38
|
|
|
Cercadelmar posted:Its regular price is 150$, how do people who believe in magic writing untensils afford to get scammed so much? After a certain point in life, you see enough of this poo poo to wonder why you weren't smart enough to come up with a scam like that yourself. As long as you craft the language as vague as possible so that you're not really claiming it does anything I guess you can make bank off of stupid people.
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2014 14:50
|
|
|
J Corp posted:I really wish Ogmius would answer Obdicut's questions on why he argued for so long being aware he was completely wrong, and why he purposely ignored evidence that he knew proved him wrong. Why did he keep beating his drum well afterwards? Why continue making poo poo up when you know you're wrong and people are going to call you out? This would be a great insight into the mind of anti-vaxxers. Because some people value Not Losing over being objectively correct at all costs. To lose or concede the point would mean sacrificing your ego, which is unacceptable, so the ego must be protected at all costs in spite of reality to the contrary. See: Republican guy during the last government shutdown who admitted they didn't even know what they wanted to win but, by God, they're going to get something out of this! This process of bending reality to serve the ego is really foreign to the Leftist mindset in dealing with the outside world, which does the complete opposite; ie bending ego to better fit with reality. Teriyaki Koinku fucked around with this message at 15:45 on Jul 15, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2014 15:33
|
|
|
Christ, I just found out that a family friend of my girlfriend is an anti-vaxxer. Unfortunately, she's also a loving nurse! I remember having a conversation that was edging toward this topic during a wedding months back, and deciding that I was better off not going any further. We were discussing the efficacy of the flu vaccine, which she said was worthless and she didn't get it. And, of course, she was using her job as a nurse as a rhetorical cudgel to support her dumb position. She's working with immune compromised people! She should be loving fired!
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2014 15:35
|
|
|
On Terra Firma posted:After a certain point in life, you see enough of this poo poo to wonder why you weren't smart enough to come up with a scam like that yourself. As long as you craft the language as vague as possible so that you're not really claiming it does anything I guess you can make bank off of stupid people. Honestly, I respect anyone who can make a scam like this. It takes a special kind of person to charge 60$ for 'magic wands' with a straight face.
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2014 15:46
|
|
|
SinetheGuy posted:Christ, I just found out that a family friend of my girlfriend is an anti-vaxxer. Unfortunately, she's also a loving nurse! I remember having a conversation that was edging toward this topic during a wedding months back, and deciding that I was better off not going any further. We were discussing the efficacy of the flu vaccine, which she said was worthless and she didn't get it. And, of course, she was using her job as a nurse as a rhetorical cudgel to support her dumb position. She's working with immune compromised people! She should be loving fired!
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2014 16:03
|
|
|
Ravenfood posted:I can't remember what the penalty for not getting a flu vaccine was in my hospital, but it was fairly hefty. And, well, she's not totally wrong about the flu vaccine, last year's had a pretty drat high rate of failure. (Also note that not taking the flu vaccine isn't the same as being opposed to vaccinating kids). All that said, there's zero excuse for a healthcare worker working with at-risk populations to not be vaccinated. Well, I figured at the time that it was limited to not taking the flu vaccine because of its relative inefficacy (still take it!). But just last night I found she was a full-on antivaxxer, kids and all. It's an example of having just a little knowledge being a very dangerous thing. Give someone a reason to think they're right about something, and they won't think critically about it ever again.
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2014 16:19
|
|
|
That clip is right. This will only stop once enough people die from preventable diseases. Then it will be back again in the future. The only other solution is enforcing vaccinations. Kind of like how we try to enforce air quality controls on industry.
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2014 19:05
|
|
|
On Terra Firma posted:After a certain point in life, you see enough of this poo poo to wonder why you weren't smart enough to come up with a scam like that yourself. As long as you craft the language as vague as possible so that you're not really claiming it does anything I guess you can make bank off of stupid people. Because deep down you'd know that you're a lovely person. It'd be easy to come up with some fake herbal supplement product and claim X, Y, and Z for a quick buck, but most people don't because most people have a conscience. lovely people willing to scam the gullible create groups like anti-vaxxers Killer-of-Lawyers posted:That clip is right. This will only stop once enough people die from preventable diseases. Then it will be back again in the future. The only other solution is enforcing vaccinations. Kind of like how we try to enforce air quality controls on industry. But then it becomes BIG GOVERNMENT and causes a bunch of nutcase libertarians to believe that it's a conspiracy to sterilize conservatives or some other stupid loving thing. There's no way to win here except through really, really good science education.
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2014 19:58
|
|
|
SinetheGuy posted:Christ, I just found out that a family friend of my girlfriend is an anti-vaxxer. Unfortunately, she's also a loving nurse! I remember having a conversation that was edging toward this topic during a wedding months back, and deciding that I was better off not going any further. We were discussing the efficacy of the flu vaccine, which she said was worthless and she didn't get it. And, of course, she was using her job as a nurse as a rhetorical cudgel to support her dumb position. She's working with immune compromised people! She should be loving fired! uh tell her boss dude what are you even doing Seriously, what are you thinking?
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2014 21:27
|
|
|
QuarkJets posted:Because deep down you'd know that you're a lovely person. It'd be easy to come up with some fake herbal supplement product and claim X, Y, and Z for a quick buck, but most people don't because most people have a conscience. The thing is we don't really lose much if the libertarians don't like it. Let them refuse, get arrested and vaccinated against their will. If they try and resist violently then it's a few less nutjobs in the world. Like school integration, sometimes you just have to use force for the good of society, even against parts that don't wish it.
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2014 21:43
|
|
|
QuarkJets posted:Because deep down you'd know that you're a lovely person. It'd be easy to come up with some fake herbal supplement product and claim X, Y, and Z for a quick buck, but most people don't because most people have a conscience. Considering how incredibly stupid and gullible people are, I really don't feel bad about it at all as long as it's a simple transaction where I sell my magic wand to a moron and they give me money for it. Now if they use that to try and cure their kid of the measles (because obviously they didn't vaccinate) then yeah I'd feel bad.
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2014 21:53
|
|
|
ChairMaster posted:uh tell her boss dude what are you even doing Having looked into it a little further, it turns out she works at a chiropractic clinic. So on the one hand, while her anti-vaxx stance is probably uncontroversial there, at least she (presumably) isn't directly working with infirm patients. Stealth edit: Wonderful. It's pediatric chiropractic.
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2014 22:25
|
|
|
SinetheGuy posted:Having looked into it a little further, it turns out she works at a chiropractic clinic. So on the one hand, while her anti-vaxx stance is probably uncontroversial there, at least she (presumably) isn't directly working with infirm patients. She'll adjust the measles right out of'em! 
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2014 22:28
|
|
|
SinetheGuy posted:Having looked into it a little further, it turns out she works at a chiropractic clinic. So on the one hand, while her anti-vaxx stance is probably uncontroversial there, at least she (presumably) isn't directly working with infirm patients. If you have kids, tell her that you're not letting her anywhere near them until she's gotten that loving flu shot.
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2014 23:09
|
|
|
SinetheGuy posted:Stealth edit: How is that even allowed.
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2014 23:27
|
|
|
On Terra Firma posted:How is that even allowed. Because there are idiots in the world. Hell, there was a post I remember seeing somewhere about a brand newborn being 'adjusted', along with the sisters who were all 'well adjusted'.
|
|
#
?
Jul 16, 2014 00:07
|
|
|
On Terra Firma posted:Considering how incredibly stupid and gullible people are, I really don't feel bad about it at all as long as it's a simple transaction where I sell my magic wand to a moron and they give me money for it. But that is what they're going to do. You're convincing a dumb person to give you money for a magic wand (which is already pretty terrible) and then they're going to use this product to cure themselves of... whatever happens to ail them.
|
|
#
?
Jul 16, 2014 02:33
|
|
|
QuarkJets posted:But that is what they're going to do. You're convincing a dumb person to give you money for a magic wand (which is already pretty terrible) and then they're going to use this product to cure themselves of... whatever happens to ail them. If you have any conscience, you are eventually going to end up like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tunFKD-Xfpo&t=836s
|
|
#
?
Jul 16, 2014 03:22
|
|
|
Here's something that's sort of relevant. If you're interested in the history of vaccination, it is well worth a read: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/07/lice-doctor-lviv-nazi-germany-109255.html?ml=m_t1_2h Its about a Jewish doctor who was in a concentration camp in Buchenwald that was assigned to make a Typhus vaccine for the Nazis. Of course, since nobody in charge at the camp had any knowledge about virology or infectious disease, he was able to ship a bogus vaccine to the Eastern Front where the Nazis were dying. He saved the real vaccine for the workers in the camp whom the SS didn't give a poo poo about. It is pretty drat amazing. Especially this part: quote:After Kogon and Ciepielowski testified that the vaccine had been bogus, Mrugowsky—a man who had provided Zyklon-B to the gas chambers at Auschwitz, and had run a network of cruel medical experiments—appeared stunned and indignant. He accused the inmates of violating medical ethics. “These are some of the most curious remarks I have heard here,” he said. “Their attitude has nothing in common with the concepts of humanity expressed by the Herren [gentlemen] here today.”
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2014 15:08
|
|
|
QuarkJets posted:So it goes Ugh all of this poo poo looks like some bored scammer with too many ballpoint pen casings found the perfect market to bullshit.
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2014 17:05
|
|
|
.
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2014 19:02
|
|
|
Sweet, now anti-vaccination bullshit has crept into the vitamin K shot that all newborns receive to prevent internal bleeding to the brain.
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2014 14:24
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 25, 2024 06:09 |
|
|
Killer-of-Lawyers posted:The thing is we don't really lose much if the libertarians don't like it. Let them refuse, get arrested and vaccinated against their will. If they try and resist violently then it's a few less nutjobs in the world. Like school integration, sometimes you just have to use force for the good of society, even against parts that don't wish it. quote:
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2014 18:31
|
|