|
Arglebargle III posted:This directly conflicts with the idea that if a developer doesn't like his job he can just get a better offer somewhere else. Is it surprising that the internet giants are good at influencing public perceptions? People don't always do what's in their interest for dumb reasons, hence programmers don't want to unionise?
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2014 12:45
|
|
I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
|
|
| # ? Jun 8, 2024 09:02 |
|
|
Its not just labor issues either. I'm amazed at how widespread climate denialism is. Everytime theres a thread on slashdot about the climate (For the most part the slashdot mods are pro-science) they get derailed by lunatics frothing on about conspiracies and the like, then these get upvoted to +5 INFORMATIVE and anyone who disagrees gets -1 TROLL and basically hidden. A colleague of mine (I work at a govt department that does land management as an IT guy) who does climate simulation for modeling prescribed burns posted a bit of a rebuttal to some guy ranting about Al gore and how fake scientists only do it for career and he noted how his workmates are careful to try and word reports to not sound like climate science since theres a growing trend of climate researchers being retrenched by politicized funding bodies for stating that there might be negative consequences associated with CO2 outputs. He was then -1 TROLLed. Another work colleage had a similar experience talking about penguin migrations (He researches the little guys). Meanwhile the lunatics posting about vast left wing conspiracies are given all 5 manbabies and well yeah. I mean its internet points and all but it does give indications as to the statistical mindset of the site and its IT professional audience who imagine themselves to be highly rational athiest science dudes. In fairness most of the IT guys at work are in the union and are pro-science. Which probably comes with the territory when half the time we're writing scientific software for GIS applications and general environmental science (And the other half writing turgid bureaucracy apps because government) duck monster fucked around with this message at 13:17 on Jul 27, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2014 13:14
|
|
|
Jesus. Are you telling me that Slashdot still exists?!
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2014 13:29
|
|
|
duck monster posted:Its not just labor issues either. I'm amazed at how widespread climate denialism is. Everytime theres a thread on slashdot about the climate (For the most part the slashdot mods are pro-science) they get derailed by lunatics frothing on about conspiracies and the like, then these get upvoted to +5 INFORMATIVE and anyone who disagrees gets -1 TROLL and basically hidden. A colleague of mine (I work at a govt department that does land management as an IT guy) who does climate simulation for modeling prescribed burns posted a bit of a rebuttal to some guy ranting about Al gore and how fake scientists only do it for career and he noted how his workmates are careful to try and word reports to not sound like climate science since theres a growing trend of climate researchers being retrenched by politicized funding bodies for stating that there might be negative consequences associated with CO2 outputs. He was then -1 TROLLed. Another work colleage had a similar experience talking about penguin migrations (He researches the little guys). Meanwhile the lunatics posting about vast left wing conspiracies are given all 5 manbabies and well yeah. There are several things worth noting, though: 1. The people writing comments are the ones that are most passionate about the issue. There are many more guys who will never even vote in the thread, let alone add some content of their own. 2. As soon as one side of the conflict gains domination, they are usually able to shout out any dissenters. 3. People naturally try to find content that confirms their beliefs. They tend to gravitate towards ideologically close forums and avoid ones dominated by opponents of their worldview. This means that it's very hard to find a place in the Internet that is representative for the entire population. Most likely, your colleague and you have stumbled into one of many fap circles.
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2014 13:46
|
|
|
After working at maybe ~5 software companies now (ranging from 5-10 employee "start-up" type shops, to huge corporations with many departments that employ hundreds of developers and other technical resources) I've found in general, my peers haven't really fit the mold of what you'd expect from reading Hacker News or Slashdot. The start-up was the closest, but in the corporate environments it is somewhat rare to find outspoken conservatives, especially libertarians etc (though some exist - I was in a meeting the other day and over heard two people extolling the virtues of Bitcoin). Most of my co-workers range from moderate to what I guess would be described as milquetoast liberal. Just wanted to add that I generally find Hacker News to be one of the most insufferable forums about programming. It really is this amplified aggregation of all the absolute worst traits about software developers (again, keep in mind it is mostly SV/start-up culture/venture capital crowd that posts there - don't conflate it with your average American software developer). Luckily most of my coworkers have never heard of the site. edit: oh I just remembered, I used to have a conservative tech manager who I guess liked Ayn Rand because I remember we were talking about movies one day at lunch and he said he was looking forward to the movie-version of Atlas Shrugged. He also hated unions. thathonkey fucked around with this message at 14:39 on Jul 27, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2014 14:33
|
|
|
I wish I had learned programming so I could sit behind a desk and do the same amount of work I do now, but make more money. But, I didn't. I have a degree in Sociology. I feel like I should have just ground out through something I hated (programming) and at least I could be miserable, but financially secure. As it is I'm instead a well rounded person that doesn't believe in stupid poo poo, and I have to ask-would I still be if I had learned programming instead of social science? I'm not so sure.
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2014 16:27
|
|
|
Jastiger posted:I wish I had learned programming so I could sit behind a desk and do the same amount of work I do now, but make more money. Sounds like a poo poo sociology degree if they didn't force you to do a bunch of statistical work which would inevitably teach you the basics of coding. Why do they let people graduate from sociology programs without solid calc/stats skills and knowledge of at least one statistical package?
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2014 16:31
|
|
|
OneThousandMonkeys posted:This is sort of a side issue, but is there really evidence that software development salaries are going to implode/there is another tech bubble? I cannot really recall in history a time in which it was not considered the wisest career choice to study advanced computer science and the associated disciplines. Being a developer now is like being literate in the Middle Ages. A specialized skill in high demand by every business that does anything. What would threaten it is what destroyed the high prestige of the clerk - widespread literacy. If one of those wysiwyg programming platforms ever actually works and allows "drag and drop" programming by "anyone" with no code behind that would do it. Or the invention of a functional AI that could talk to you, understand what you want, and program it up in a jiff. That would make the discipline pretty pointless for most people as there wouldn't be enough work in AI writing to go around and what work there would be would be above the skill of most devs. Revenge of the comp sci PhDs. I don't think either of these will happen in my lifetime. I'm not saying they'll never happen. Clerks probably thought that widespread literacy was impossible but here we are.
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2014 16:40
|
|
|
McAlister posted:Being a developer now is like being literate in the Middle Ages. A specialized skill in high demand by every business that does anything. What would threaten it is what destroyed the high prestige of the clerk - widespread literacy. I would bet we'll see functional AI long before we see a wyswyg that obsoletes most developers.
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2014 16:49
|
|
|
on the left posted:Why do they let people graduate from sociology programs without solid calc/stats skills and knowledge of at least one statistical package? This is the beginning if the "widespread literacy" solution I mentioned above. When I was freelancing a lot of my work was simple poo poo. That's why I stopped freelancing. It paid well but it was booooring. So I stopped doing things and started teaching my clients how to do it themselves ( cause I wanted to transition out smoothly with good relations/references). You have no idea the joy you can ignite in an executives heart by teaching him how to write SQL queries and get the data he wants from the DB directly. Right now. Not tomorrow after describing what he wants and sending an email and having it get in line with other reporting requests and come back wrong and be sent back/corrected. Now. It's literally empowering. And the reason you need to have a reporting instance so badly written queries don't tank production. But he did so that was cool.
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2014 16:52
|
|
|
Xae posted:I would bet we'll see functional AI long before we see a wyswyg that obsoletes most developers. Depends on how specialized they make the wysiwyg. The drag and drop graphical reporting packages work pretty well for building queries. Yes the SQL they generate is horrible and slow. Yes a dev can do better. But the main thing keeping them marginal is their price, not their capabilities. They cost as much as a dev to license and devs do a lot of additional stuff for the money. I'm seeing graphical scripting tools for windows admins cropping up in the really high end corporations as well. In Schlumberger for example I sat next to a guy who scripted things that a unix admin would do in perl with some expensive as gently caress IBM tool that was purely graphical. It made pretty logic flow charts on the screen and actually worked for the narrow subset of simple scripting tasks it was assigned. And the drag and drop Lego mind storms programming interface is literally for children. Edit - that was probably to many words to say I'm not hypothesizing a wysiwyg. I'm assuming many of them each devoted to a narrow subset of related programing tasks. McAlister fucked around with this message at 17:20 on Jul 27, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2014 17:01
|
|
|
OneThousandMonkeys posted:This is sort of a side issue, but is there really evidence that software development salaries are going to implode/there is another tech bubble? I cannot really recall in history a time in which it was not considered the wisest career choice to study advanced computer science and the associated disciplines. There's this:  But in general the trend you're seeing of "fancy app goes for $X billion" is clearly indicative of a bubble. For WhatsApp, for example, someone made the estimate that it would be several decades before they paid off their value to Facebook even with the 40+ million user base it has now. The main issue is that there's a lot of money held by rich people which doesn't have many places to go, because of the stagnant economy. So they decide to invest that money in anything that looks hot, and it gets over invested. After a while, it's not just Google or Apple or Microsoft that gets lots of investment money but also these random restaurant finder apps or stuff like Uber. When the bubble pops (and it will), you won't see Google and co go away because they actually make a real product (probably massive layoffs though). What you're more likely to see is that all of the startups that exist just to get bought out by a big company will likely cease to exist, and all of those software developers will be put onto the market. This wide availability of labor will depress wages, and housing prices will likely go down in San Francisco (among other things). tl;dr - the bubble's not going to be as bad as 2008 but there's going to be a lot of unemployed developers who are willing to work for peanuts. e: Also I should probably note that those prices are for "high end" homes only, the "lower end" (read: anything that goes under $800,000) is even worse:  And a median house & condo price for the short term (past 3 years): 
computer parts fucked around with this message at 17:25 on Jul 27, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2014 17:15
|
|
|
It's probably because they felt they made a very practical career decision for their lives and don't understand why others don't as well. Also the OP suggested that working conditions and compensation for a software developer are bad, but they are probably as good and comfortable as it gets for an average person.
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2014 17:21
|
|
|
on the left posted:Sounds like a poo poo sociology degree if they didn't force you to do a bunch of statistical work which would inevitably teach you the basics of coding. Why do they let people graduate from sociology programs without solid calc/stats skills and knowledge of at least one statistical package? Are those skills and knowledge that you have? Then we can take a look at the conclusions you've drawn about life and the world and determine that they are skills and knowledge that don't help.
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2014 17:26
|
|
|
Jastiger posted:As it is I'm instead a well rounded person that doesn't believe in stupid poo poo, and I have to ask-would I still be if I had learned programming instead of social science? I'm not so sure. Studying software engineering doesn't preclude studying sociology, history, or any other thing that interests you -- it's all down to personal choice, and, in some cases, what your particular university requires you to take.
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2014 17:27
|
|
|
computer parts posted:There's this: Ok here is the thing. These bubble bursts are hiccups. I graduated right in the middle of the 2001 pop and two years later was pulling 67k in my field with recruiters regularly contacting me to see if I was happy where I was. Calling that a bubble burst is technically correct. But the overall slope on that graph is quite optimistically positive. Real demand for dev work is growing almost as fast as the bubbles. That makes these bubble bursts less a scary thing and more a nice excuse to take a vacation for a few months - provided you weren't an idiot with money when it was coming in of course. Edit - the idiot thing was mostly because my uncle put all his retirement in stock and only bought one stock .. The company he worked for. So when 2008 rolled around and his tech company folded due to inability to get financing he lost his job, his salary, and his entire retirement portfolio in one go. He's the guy I'm calling an idiot. McAlister fucked around with this message at 17:36 on Jul 27, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2014 17:32
|
|
|
McAlister posted:Ok here is the thing. These bubble bursts are hiccups. I graduated right in the middle of the 2001 pop and two years later was pulling 67k in my field with recruiters regularly contacting me to see if I was happy where I was. Median home prices have nearly doubled in 3 years, if that's not a bubble I don't know what is.
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2014 17:46
|
|
|
I'm gonna get off my LF high horse and agree that STEM majors probably don't need unions. Aside from you all being terrible on a personal level, you're all still professionals. If you don't like the job, there are a thousand others to get in the same industry. Real talk, if I won some college lottery and they let me choose any degree I wanted, you betcha i'm picking computer engineering or whatever. And if that hypothetical college degree lottery thing gave me that $10'000 degree for free, i would never even try organizing my coworkers because they really do rise and fall according to their individual abilities. When you're working-class, you only rise insofar as you lick rear end, betray your morals, and show such a willingness to rat on workmates that they can't help but make you assistant-to-assistant-manager! Teaching, nursing, if these degrees were middle-class at one point they sure as hell aren't anymore. They need unions. The STEM jackasses... they're like still a step below lawyers. In LF-speak, until this industry becomes overflooded, proletarianized, automated, or whatever, its a privileged white-collar job.
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2014 18:12
|
|
|
PT6A posted:Studying software engineering doesn't preclude studying sociology, history, or any other thing that interests you -- it's all down to personal choice, and, in some cases, what your particular university requires you to take. Oh no I studied programming and hated it . It's totally useful but I don't know if I could keep doing it for a career. I'm merely saying that I chose wrong in the grand scheme if programming is super awesome pay with the same effort I put into my work now. Also most sociology degrees that I know of don't require massive statistics until the graduate level. I know how to do analysis but the intricate stuff was always graduate work and required a lot more intensity than what I went through. Definitely was no programming done though. Maybe there should be, but I've never heard of it being a requirement for sociology, nor am I sure it's to be expected
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2014 18:17
|
|
|
I think I could enjoy learning how to program. I taught myself HTML when I was 11 and I dabbled Second Life scripting while unemployed to see if I could make a buck to help out with the bills. I used to really like building websites, so I bet I could enjoy being a programmer. Problem is I'm a 28 year old woman in the Seattle area who has never gone to college. I currently work on computer hardware as a field technician doing warranty replacements for a major computer brand. I really do like working with computers, and I always have ever since I was little. I'm not really sure where to go to get started in programming as a career path this late in my life. I wish I was encouraged to pursue computer science more when I was younger.
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2014 18:51
|
|
|
Lacrosse posted:I think I could enjoy learning how to program. I taught myself HTML when I was 11 and I dabbled Second Life scripting while unemployed to see if I could make a buck to help out with the bills. I used to really like building websites, so I bet I could enjoy being a programmer. That's another issue with many computer science programs - if you're not the type of person that's a "natural genius" at it they don't want to teach you because that would require actual effort. I don't just mean minorities or women but if you haven't at minimum been doing programming since you began high school you're probably going to struggle and transfer out of your college program.
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2014 18:54
|
|
|
computer parts posted:Median home prices have nearly doubled in 3 years, if that's not a bubble I don't know what is. Bubble isn't "goes up quickly". Its "goes up faster than real sustainable demand". This usually happens when people start looking at something as an investment rather than as what it is. And yeah, vanity start ups as investments exist. But underneath them is real demand for non-vanity projects that are on hold because vanity projects are creating an artificial shortage. So when the bubble pops the fall isn't that far.
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2014 18:56
|
|
|
McAlister posted:Depends on how specialized they make the wysiwyg. The drag and drop graphical reporting packages work pretty well for building queries. Yes the SQL they generate is horrible and slow. Yes a dev can do better. But the main thing keeping them marginal is their price, not their capabilities. They cost as much as a dev to license and devs do a lot of additional stuff for the money. Even those wysiwyg reporting interfaces require massive setup from trained engineers to setup the playground/adhoc area. Even then it is common for expert business users to display some fundamental flaws in reasoning that end up being put in as "bugs" that developers need to go in and sort out. My experience with reporting is that most business users just end up customizing existing (Developer built) reports. Removing or adding a field, changing the sort or filtering. Very, very rarely does a business user come along with enough understanding of the data and underlying logic to truly use the tools to their potential. I think I have run into less than 5 of them in a decade of Data Warehousing work. Honestly the interface is less of a problem than the logistical/logical side. Computers are cold, unfeeling, uncaring machines that literally do whatever you tell them. "Business Users" often times fail to realize that. People have been lead to believe that computers are smart when they are not. Business users often times fail to realize that they have to explain literally everything to the computer for it to work correctly. Even then there is a lot of "gut instinct" that seems to come into play with what most business users want. For example I was setting up an exception report for some guys in logistics. They wanted a report that would show any abnormal changes in inventory. I couldn't get them to explain what abnormal meant. I kept getting answers like "Well, something that looks odd" or "Doesn't match the others". I couldn't drag out of them what they were defining as "odd" or "doesn't match". Eventually I just generated about 5 reports based on standard deviations from the mean of different fields, they picked the closest one and I blindly tweaked it until they liked it. I'm not saying that training couldn't over come that, but the issue seems to be a skill set and mindset one.
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2014 18:57
|
|
|
McAlister posted:Bubble isn't "goes up quickly". Its "goes up faster than real sustainable demand". This usually happens when people start looking at something as an investment rather than as what it is. How do you know they're on hold? The established companies have thousands of workers and they're obviously able to get anyone they want if they're able to get any company they want. Remember that I'm saying massive layoffs are coming for those established companies too. If anything they have a glut of labor and that will be revealed when the bubble bursts.
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2014 19:01
|
|
|
The premise of the thread title is completely inaccurate and you guys've had seven pages of talk about this? Okay.
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2014 19:06
|
|
|
Lacrosse posted:I think I could enjoy learning how to program. I taught myself HTML when I was 11 and I dabbled Second Life scripting while unemployed to see if I could make a buck to help out with the bills. I used to really like building websites, so I bet I could enjoy being a programmer. You should give it a try! While a lot of jobs ask for technical degrees, computer science is probably the highest-paid white collar field with the greatest number of people who haven't received a formal degree on the subject. There are many employers who look mainly for technical skill and past accomplishments (such as hobby projects) and don't care much about formal education. It's also the easiest field to create startups in, since the capital requirements are ridiculously low. Check out this thread for further questions. computer parts posted:That's another issue with many computer science programs - if you're not the type of person that's a "natural genius" at it they don't want to teach you because that would require actual effort. Wow, you really should stop talking out of your rear end.
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2014 19:07
|
|
|
enraged_camel posted:
Go and tell me your anecdotes so that I may be convinced otherwise.
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2014 19:11
|
|
|
Lacrosse posted:I think I could enjoy learning how to program. I taught myself HTML when I was 11 and I dabbled Second Life scripting while unemployed to see if I could make a buck to help out with the bills. I used to really like building websites, so I bet I could enjoy being a programmer. 28? Phooey. I got my aunt started coding in her mid forties. At one client I taught the secretary pool of women in their 60's enough coding to do all the report writing they were paying me $100 an hour to do. You absolutely can start now. Most of the mystique of the industry is people trying to make it look way harder than it is for the usual reasons. The trick is finding a way to get paid to learn it if you don't have enough time/money to take night classes or independent study it. The easiest way to do that is get a job in qa and then start automating tests .,. Write programs to run the tests for you. In doing that you'll learn the company product very well and have a leg up on outsiders when a dev position opens.
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2014 19:21
|
|
|
computer parts posted:Go and tell me your anecdotes so that I may be convinced otherwise. Nice try. You made a huge claim: that unless one is a "natural genius", computer science programs will not want to teach them. The burden is on you to provide evidence.
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2014 19:21
|
|
|
I am a software developer, but I come from a poor working class background. Everyone I work with, with a few exceptions comes from an upper-middle class background. Software development is hard. To even break into it, you need to have a special skill set that you were brought up with: being raised around electronic devices. They seem to mistake the circumstances of their upbringing, and the wealth that was passed on to them by their parents for some sort of hard work and talent. This isn't entirely untrue because, as I said, software isn't easy. But, they tend to ignore the circumstance that let them even begin to learn the skill, instead concluding that anyone could do what they did if they weren't so lazy or something. It's definitely a difficult environment to be in, because any time we get into a group discussion it inevitably turns to how the homeless on the downtown east side inconvenience them, or how our lazy, greedy, teachers shouldn't be striking, and should just get real jobs, or why unions aren't necessary in the modern age.
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2014 19:23
|
|
|
enraged_camel posted:Nice try. That's been my own personal anecdote corroborated by people in previous threads. As for hard data though Google's demographic data for tech workers seems hilariously biased (83% men, 2% Hispanic, 1% black). I doubt that they are the only company that has these demographics.
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2014 19:25
|
|
|
computer parts posted:That's been my own personal anecdote corroborated by people in previous threads. I'm sorry but I fail to understand how Google employing 83% of men is evidence of your claim that computer science departments refuse to invest in people who are not "natural geniuses." If you are suggesting that the field is more difficult for women to break into... the answer is both yes and no. Like most tech fields, it's unquestionably male-dominated. However, there have been huge pushes, both in academia and in the industry, to equalize things in recent years. Admission rates for women have been increasing rapidly in CS departments, and women-only scholarships and mentorships and support groups are being created. And many companies are trying to hire more women onto their tech teams for a lot of reasons, the least of which is that it makes the company looks good. If there's a "right time" for women to take a shot at programming as a career, that time is now. Of course, this all assumes that one wants to go the traditional route of degree + full-time job. Whereas the possibilities that open up when one is proficient in programming involve much more than that.
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2014 19:35
|
|
|
enraged_camel posted:I'm sorry but I fail to understand how Google employing 83% of men is evidence of your claim that computer science departments refuse to invest in people who are not "natural geniuses." You cleverly avoided the racial demographics part. Race in America is heavily correlated to poverty (28% of black people and 26% of Hispanics are below the poverty line). Unless you're a savant if you're poor you're going to need a lot of help to catch up and actually learn with your peers, and clearly that is not happening.
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2014 19:38
|
|
|
computer parts posted:You cleverly avoided the racial demographics part. Race in America is heavily correlated to poverty (28% of black people and 26% of Hispanics are below the poverty line). Unless you're a savant if you're poor you're going to need a lot of help to catch up and actually learn with your peers, and clearly that is not happening. I didn't avoid it. It's simply irrelevant to the discussion we're having at this moment in which Lacrosse said she's a 28 year old woman and she's interested in learning programming, and you responded with what amounted to "don't bother unless you're a natural genius." (And by the way, we're still waiting for evidence of that.)
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2014 19:51
|
|
|
enraged_camel posted:I didn't avoid it. It's simply irrelevant to the discussion we're having at this moment in which Lacrosse said she's a 28 year old woman and she's interested in learning programming, and you responded with what amounted to "don't bother unless you're a natural genius." I already gave you evidence of that: poor people are more likely to be minorities, there are little to no minorities (at least the type that tend to be poor) in a typical software company. Ergo, there is *some issue* relating to that (unless you think software companies are racist which is also possible but unlikely given the percentage of affluent minorities). Just as an aside - I'm not pretending to know her background but someone who's 28 and has never been to college is unlikely to be that affluent.
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2014 19:55
|
|
|
computer parts posted:I already gave you evidence of that: poor people are more likely to be minorities, there are little to no minorities (at least the type that tend to be poor) in a typical software company. Ergo, there is *some issue* relating to that (unless you think software companies are racist which is also possible but unlikely given the percentage of affluent minorities). So wait. Your reasoning goes from, "poor people are more likely to be minorities, there are little to no minorities in a typical software company," to "computer science departments don't invest in people unless they are natural geniuses"? Wow! computer parts posted:Just as an aside - I'm not pretending to know her background but someone who's 28 and has never been to college is unlikely to be that affluent. Well, she said she repairs computer parts. Maybe she can repair your brain, too.
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2014 20:02
|
|
|
enraged_camel posted:So wait. Your reasoning goes from, "poor people are more likely to be minorities, there are little to no minorities in a typical software company," to "computer science departments don't invest in people unless they are natural geniuses"? Yes, and if you want an actual study on it, here you go: http://www.asee.org/public/conferences/1/papers/1394/download of note:  The X-graph is how rich you are*, the Y-graph is how likely you are to graduate in 6 years.  The X-Graph is how rich you are*, the Y-Graph is how likely you are to enroll in an engineering program. *Clearly* there is a bias towards rich people. (*"Rich" in this case meaning "what percentage of your high school does not participate in the Free/Reduced Lunch Program)
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2014 20:05
|
|
|
computer parts posted:
Well obviously, but the reason enraged_camel is confused is because that's not the same thing as natural genius.
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2014 20:06
|
|
|
Xandu posted:Well obviously, but the reason enraged_camel is confused is because that's not the same thing as natural genius. Yeah, we call that "moving goalposts." 
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2014 20:07
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 8, 2024 09:02 |
|
|
Xandu posted:Well obviously, but the reason enraged_camel is confused is because that's not the same thing as natural genius. "Natural" in this case refers to propensity to take up a talent without instructor aid.
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2014 20:08
|
|