|
ME4 news! So I have to come back home to this thread. I have to say, I hope they're wrong about that "another galaxy poo poo". I can not imagine any way at all taking place in another galaxy is not the most retarded thing ever. For one thing, it means less/no focus on any of the races we care about. No Asari, Turians, Krogan, etc. For another, if the game is a prequel/takes place during/before ME1-3, then it doesn't make any loving sense. Technology to travel to another galaxy is huge and way beyond what anybody had the tech to do that we saw. Having the tech to do that would completely change things, and that there is no mention of that in ME1-3 just makes there no room for this. It also tells me that once again, these guys have no loving idea what makes the ME series so captivating in the first place, because that's just dumb. There's plenty of potential for a story that doesn't focus on Shepard, but just explores the races we already know in more depth. Imagine getting to see more of the alien home worlds, or the Citadel, in their prime before ME3? As like an alien race that actually lived there or something, and setting stories to focus on those. Smaller scale than Shepard's story but fleshing out what Shepard didn't have the time to because his story was broader in scope. This tells me they are going to try to out-epic Shepard which is just not a good loving idea. There's absolutely room for a great story and game in something that doesn't focus on Shepard, but this is not how you do it.
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2014 14:02
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 30, 2024 03:38 |
|
|
Is it time for a new thread, or should we stick with this until at least the game's title is announced? I'd be fine with finally putting ME3 to bed, but it may be a bit premature this early.
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2014 14:27
|
|
|
Geostomp posted:Is it time for a new thread, or should we stick with this until at least the game's title is announced? I'd be fine with finally putting ME3 to bed, but it may be a bit premature this early. I think we should wait until we have more concrete information on the next game, personally. Like this is just what some reporter THINKS he heard. It's entirely possible, for example, that he's mistaking "new galaxy" and "new solar system".
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2014 14:29
|
|
|
I think even 'reporter' is being generous.
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2014 14:33
|
|
|
Can anyone guess if I should expect the ME3 DLC to ever go on sale?
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2014 14:33
|
|
|
PriorMarcus posted:Can anyone guess if I should expect the ME3 DLC to ever go on sale? It did once, so you're probably out of luck.
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2014 14:38
|
|
|
Dan Didio posted:It did once, so you're probably out of luck. I happily paid full price for the DLC of one and two... Oh well.
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2014 14:39
|
|
|
ME3 DLC is totally worth it though. Citadel DLC is as good as Lair of the Shadow Broker.
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2014 14:40
|
|
|
If you paid full price for Pinnacle Station and Genesis, surely you'll buy anything.
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2014 14:41
|
|
|
Aristobulus posted:ME4 news! So I have to come back home to this thread. Voyager didn't have the technology to travel to the Delta Quadrant but got stranded there anyway. And Voyager wasn't an epic story, that was more DS9. It may be fun to have a mixed races ship being lost in another galaxy. You have the old races through the members of your ship, and you have plenty of new races/planets to explore. On the other hand, focusing on the Milky Way can work as well. But anyway, saying they have no idea what makes Mass Effect great when we still know basically nothing about ME4 strikes me as rather premature.
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2014 15:15
|
|
|
Torrannor posted:Voyager didn't have the technology to travel to the Delta Quadrant but got stranded there anyway. And Voyager wasn't an epic story, that was more DS9. It may be fun to have a mixed races ship being lost in another galaxy. You have the old races through the members of your ship, and you have plenty of new races/planets to explore. On the other hand, focusing on the Milky Way can work as well. It strikes me as not understanding the implications of what they are writing. Which is especially crucial given that this was the major flaw of the horrible original ending of ME3 - they didn't understand the implications of what they wrote and that they wrote an ending where Shepard dies to destroy the galaxy and kill off everyone you cared about. So it just feels like they are making the same mistake again. Sure it COULD be done well, but these guys have already shown once they don't get it. I honestly don't know why those lead writers still have their jobs after the ending of ME3.
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2014 15:19
|
|
|
Aristobulus posted:It strikes me as not understanding the implications of what they are writing. Which is especially crucial given that this was the major flaw of the horrible original ending of ME3 - they didn't understand the implications of what they wrote and that they wrote an ending where Shepard dies to destroy the galaxy and kill off everyone you cared about. That didn't happen.
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2014 15:29
|
|
|
Aristobulus posted:It strikes me as not understanding the implications of what they are writing. Which is especially crucial given that this was the major flaw of the horrible original ending of ME3 - they didn't understand the implications of what they wrote and that they wrote an ending where Shepard dies to destroy the galaxy and kill off everyone you cared about. Did we play the same game? Did the Normandy crash with all people on board getting killed in the process?
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2014 15:35
|
|
|
Introducing a second galaxy as a setting or the ides of extragalactic travel is a thing that will cause lots of problems. Like Aristobulus says, it's about the implications. In my mind, it cheapens so much about the original setting. Suddenly, the Reapers aren't as threatening (for example). Or the Reapers hit this galaxy as well which brings us back to the issues with the original series. If they're going to invent new aliens for this galaxy then it's not really Mass Effect. It'd be like a new Star Trek series without Klingons or Vulcans. So, there's weirdness at the conceptual level. And then you get to lore weirdness like. Is there dextro food or whatever in this new galaxy? If not, well, say goodbye to any Turian or Quarian crewmembers your ship has. Are there Mass Relays? Reapers? Of course, we also have someone actually going 'Dude! Star Trek: Voyager did it' which is... Well, something. It's something a lot of sci-fi struggles with. As the scale gets bigger, things start changing. Things become less important. If you have an entire galaxy of planets, there's really no reason to not just hurl rocks at the ones your enemies have - there's thousands more to colonise. Mass Effect, at least, got around this by enforcing limitations through the Mass Relays, limitations which kept the scale smaller than you might think. Unless you handle 'multiple galaxies' in an intelligent way and with a whole lot of care, you're just getting into the ludicrously stupid vein of science fiction. New aliens, new characters, new protagonist, new locations, seemingly seperate to what has come before. Mass Effect in name only. Feels like one of those things where they slap a well-known name on some other project to make money.
|
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2014 15:40
|
|
|
...Were you guys not around before they released the extended ending DLC? This was pretty common knowledge back then. The revised ending doesn't do this, but the original ending does. Shepard literally destroys the mass relays, in every ending. That is the galaxy's only means of reliably traveling between solar systems, which means trade throughout the galaxy is halted and everyone is essentially trapped in whatever solar system they were in at the time. People that are in solar systems that relied on trade from outside the solar system to survive, will die off. Others will find themselves facing a sudden incredible resource shortage. And all of this is ignoring that a mass relay exploding is supposed to be a dangerous enough explosion to be capable of wiping out an entire solar system. DLC with the batarians showed us what happens when a mass relay explodes...but you could say that Shepard just turns off the mass relays and they don't explode. You still face problems of all travel between solar systems being halted.
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2014 15:41
|
|
|
^The original ending left the state of the galaxy ambiguous and there wasn't anything suggesting that the races of the galaxy wouldn't be able to work together to rebuild.^ Implications as defined by the ME3 thread is: things taken to their most extreme logical end in order to justify maximum outrage at the endings. "Joker's hat is sentient now! Toasters are sentient! Everything is sentient and you mind-raped everyone in the galaxy! You are a galactic rapist if you chose the synthesis ending!" Professor Beetus fucked around with this message at 15:44 on Jul 27, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2014 15:41
|
|
|
Milky Moor posted:It's something a lot of sci-fi struggles with. As the scale gets bigger, things start changing. Things become less important. If you have an entire galaxy of planets, there's really no reason to not just hurl rocks at the ones your enemies have - there's thousands more to colonise. Mass Effect, at least, got around this by enforcing limitations through the Mass Relays, limitations which kept the scale smaller than you might think. Unless you handle 'multiple galaxies' in an intelligent way and with a whole lot of care, you're just getting into the ludicrously stupid vein of science fiction. Exactly, you get it entirely. Everything from the implications of this, to it not feeling like Mass Effect at all. I do want to mention a huge problem that they seem to be facing is they are trying to out-epic Shepard. Shepard's story was perfectly epic. We don't need Shepard 2.0 facing off against the MEGA SUPER ULTRA Reapers. Instead, they really should be taking things smaller scale than Shepard, and writing stories that flesh out areas and races way more than Shepard could, since Shepard had to travel around the entire galaxy and didn't stay in one place for very long. e - quote:Implications as defined by the ME3 thread is: things taken to their most extreme logical end in order to justify maximum outrage at the endings. "Joker's hat is sentient now! Toasters are sentient! Everything is sentient and you mind-raped everyone in the galaxy! You are a galactic rapist if you chose the synthesis ending!" Please tell me what is wrong with my logic about the original endings. I don't think I'm exaggerating or blowing things out of proportion at all. At a base minimum, every ending had you shut down the mass relays, right? So you tell me, do any of the species have a reliable way of travelling and transporting goods quickly and efficiently across solar systems? As far as I can tell, they used the mass relays to travel between clusters as slowboating takes way too long and way too much fuel. Look at the fuel you burn just going between solar systems in the same cluster in the Normandy, and realize in lore that's supposed to be weeks/months of travel. You can't slowboat like that from Earth to Thessia or the Citadel, for example. So, please tell me what in my logic is an exaggeration. What other option is there? Aristobulus fucked around with this message at 15:47 on Jul 27, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2014 15:44
|
|
|
It is very good and not in fact bad that the Reaper war can only end in something that is extremely traumatic to the current state of the galaxy, which, incidentally, is a state that resulted from thousands of years of Reaper influence via the Mass Relays.
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2014 15:52
|
|
|
Actually, Shepard's crew, and the entire galaxy, broke even and made it out okay, except for Liara, who died horribly and alone.
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2014 16:02
|
|
|
Not MY Mass Effect.
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2014 16:03
|
|
|
Aristobulus posted:Exactly, you get it entirely. Everything from the implications of this, to it not feeling like Mass Effect at all. This is pure conjecture. Even IF the setting is another galaxy, we know nothing about it. The assumption that Not-Shepard will face even greater enemies is not supported by a single fact. Things can be set in another galaxy and still be on a smaller scale. Or you may be right, there could be mega-reapers. But we have absolutely no idea at all what's in the game. And as others pointed out, it's not even sure that there is another galaxy at all. This is hyperbole. By all means, doubt that Bioware can ever make a good game again, but don't pretend to know about a game that's probably still in a pre-alpha state. quote:Please tell me what is wrong with my logic about the original endings. I don't think I'm exaggerating or blowing things out of proportion at all. At a base minimum, every ending had you shut down the mass relays, right? So you tell me, do any of the species have a reliable way of travelling and transporting goods quickly and efficiently across solar systems? Did you miss the fact that the Mass Relays were placed as a sort of evolutionary dead end? Everybody uses the Mass Relays to get around, so they cluster around them and this makes it easier for the Reapers to harvest the galaxy. So yes, no species has a reliable FTL drive to cross long distances. Yet. They could easily have explained how people put more effort into developing other/faster methods of FTL travel now that they no longer have the Mass Relays, and thus introduce a more conventional FTL drive into the setting. That would give you the huge opportunity to explore the space around the solar system, meeting races that lived too far away from the activated Mass Relays. The main races are also clustered "relatively" close, with the Krogan, Turians, Salarians, Asari and Humans all in the same quadrant of the galaxy. Only the Quarians live on the other side of the Milky Way. I'm still mad that they chickened out and undid the destruction of the Mass Relays in the Extended Cut.
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2014 16:10
|
|
|
Dan Didio posted:Actually, Shepard's crew, and the entire galaxy, broke even and made it out okay, except for Liara, who died horribly and alone. Then everyone had a huge party. Liara's name was seldom mentioned, and nobody particularly seemed to miss her.
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2014 16:12
|
|
|
Torrannor posted:This is pure conjecture. Even IF the setting is another galaxy, we know nothing about it. The assumption that Not-Shepard will face even greater enemies is not supported by a single fact. Things can be set in another galaxy and still be on a smaller scale. Or you may be right, there could be mega-reapers. But we have absolutely no idea at all what's in the game. And as others pointed out, it's not even sure that there is another galaxy at all. This is hyperbole. By all means, doubt that Bioware can ever make a good game again, but don't pretend to know about a game that's probably still in a pre-alpha state. I mean, if you think I'm not going to keep my eye on the game - and play it and give it a fair shot, you're completely wrong. It's Mass Effect at least in name, I'm going to play it and see what they do, and see if I'm right or wrong. I'm pessimistic and wary, but I'm not going to naysay and refuse to even try the game. I mean, I hated the original endings and felt burned by it, but I'll admit that I think the extended ending is fine and Citadel DLC is great, so it's not like I'm saying Bioware can never do anything right again. quote:Did you miss the fact that the Mass Relays were placed as a sort of evolutionary dead end? Everybody uses the Mass Relays to get around, so they cluster around them and this makes it easier for the Reapers to harvest the galaxy. No I didn't miss that, but it's completely irrelevant when the Reapers are all dead, you know. The Mass Relays are just tools. And regardless of why, it's still the galaxies only real means of getting around. quote:So yes, no species has a reliable FTL drive to cross long distances. Yet. They could easily have explained how people put more effort into developing other/faster methods of FTL travel now that they no longer have the Mass Relays, and thus introduce a more conventional FTL drive into the setting. They could have. But they didn't. Not until the extended ending, anyway. And it takes an insanely optimistic mind to imagine they figure that out when they're suddenly and without warning or preparation, shut off from all of their resources. Hard for the galactic community to get together and work on a replacement for Mass Relays when they have means to meet up and communicate, you know? And they can't transfer physical resources to eachother, either. I mean, hell, Aethyta herself says that during the prime of their civilization, she tried to talk about researching alternative means for travel and nobody ever seriously considered it.
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2014 16:17
|
|
|
Aristobulus posted:No I didn't miss that, but it's completely irrelevant when the Reapers are all dead, you know. "Even a dead god can dream." - Doomguy.
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2014 16:21
|
|
|
Lol you don't need to literally see "and then people developed alternate engines that don't use the mass relays". This is not something that needs to, nor should be spelled out. The point is that galactic life is now in charge of it's own destiny for the first time in millions of years. What "actually" happens (as if the game is a historical record or some poo poo) isn't particularly relevant.
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2014 16:22
|
|
|
Aristobulus posted:They could have. But they didn't. Not until the extended ending, anyway. And it takes an insanely optimistic mind to imagine they figure that out when they're suddenly and without warning or preparation, shut off from all of their resources. Hard for the galactic community to get together and work on a replacement for Mass Relays when they have means to meet up and communicate, you know? And they can't transfer physical resources to eachother, either. Of course nobody seriously considered researching alternative means for travel, because they had functioning Mass Relays! And setting the next game 100 years into the future would be all the excuse needed for humanity to come up with better drives. They don't even need to be as fast as the old Mass Relays, so what if the travel from Earth to Thessia takes a full year? It would make a smaller scale setting all the more natural.
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2014 16:25
|
|
|
If I had to guess, whoever said "new galaxy" just meant that there are lots of "~~ new worlds to explore~" and doesn't really get what galaxies actually are. An entirely new galaxy would be nuts. edit: also apparently this is all based off what some chump change games journalist thinks he heard. Chexoid fucked around with this message at 17:10 on Jul 27, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2014 17:08
|
|
|
Fag Boy Jim posted:Lol you don't need to literally see "and then people developed alternate engines that don't use the mass relays". This is not something that needs to, nor should be spelled out. The point is that galactic life is now in charge of it's own destiny for the first time in millions of years. What "actually" happens (as if the game is a historical record or some poo poo) isn't particularly relevant. I don't think vague endings work for gamers just yet. "You mean I have to use my imagination? What is this horseshit?"
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2014 17:30
|
|
|
drat, dudes, are you really even going to try and argue with the creepy spergelord with a fetish for a blue-skinned alien woman? He's barely a step removed from the likes of Tali-Sweat Man and the rest of those crazies, just ignore his lunatic rear end.
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2014 17:33
|
|
|
Why do I get the feeling that Bioware's being cagey about the details of the story because they plan on making it post-ME3, and they know full-well about the can of worms that would be opened by having to declare one ending canon? Then again, it'd admittedly probably be more sensible to get that kind of info out early so there's more time for fans to digest/come to terms with it, so it's entirely possible they still aren't fully decided yet.
|
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2014 17:33
|
|
|
Regalingualius posted:Why do I get the feeling that Bioware's being cagey about the details of the story because they plan on making it post-ME3, and they know full-well about the can of worms that would be opened by having to declare one ending canon? Then again, it'd admittedly probably be more sensible to get that kind of info out early so there's more time for fans to digest/come to terms with it, so it's entirely possible they still aren't fully decided yet. You have a point, but like you say, if they're setting it after ME3 the "which ending is canon?!" controversy is something that'd happen eventually. I would think it is better to get that out of the way early than like, surprise people with it on release. But I don't know which would actually impact their sales more.
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2014 17:54
|
|
|
Aristobulus posted:You have a point, but like you say, if they're setting it after ME3 the "which ending is canon?!" controversy is something that'd happen eventually. I would think it is better to get that out of the way early than like, surprise people with it on release. The one true ending of course: Destroy. 
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2014 18:01
|
|
|
I mean the extended cut even has it where Destroy is the ending that would make the most sense as a canon ending if you want to have stories in the ME universe after ME3, lmfao.
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2014 18:15
|
|
|
Aristobulus posted:ME4 news! So I have to come back home to this thread. No you don't. You really don't.
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2014 18:15
|
|
|
If they set it far enough into the future instead of within Shepherd's lifetime they could ignore addressing how ME3 ended. Fully commit to the idea that our choices made no difference.
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2014 18:22
|
|
|
Ravel posted:If they set it far enough into the future instead of within Shepherd's lifetime they could ignore addressing how ME3 ended. Fully commit to the idea that our choices made no difference. I suppose that's possible, too. I mean, with Destroy you can say "everyone rebuilt, galactic society reformed" with Control you say "Shepard Reapers helped galactic society rebuild and then left" but How do you handwave away synthesis? If nothing else, everyone should have glowy neon parts on them while they go about their happily rebuilt lives, right? Well, I suppose you could say cosmetics were introduced to cover that up and technically everyone does still have it. Oh, and as far as the "alternate galaxy" it really would make the most sense to me if the guy just misunderstood and it's really talking about a new solar system/cluster, not a whole new galaxy. Plenty of unexplored solar systems in the Milky Way they could work with.
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2014 18:28
|
|
|
Axe-man posted:The one true ending of course: Destroy. My favorite ending is the green ending because that's my favorite colour.
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2014 18:29
|
|
|
In my eyes it really doesn't matter when they set it, as long as it's good. Hell you can set it during ME3 and just retcon the worst aspects of the ending's effects some more. As long as we get a Krogan sQUADmate again I'm good.
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2014 18:59
|
|
|
Zedd posted:In my eyes it really doesn't matter when they set it, as long as it's good. Hell you can set it during ME3 and just retcon the worst aspects of the ending's effects some more. Man, you're right as hell. I totally wish they would be willing to just retcon poo poo. If we could just pretend all the terrible poo poo in ME2-ME3 never happened... Ah, livin' the dream...
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2014 19:07
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 30, 2024 03:38 |
|
|
It didn't happen.
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2014 19:26
|
|
