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A lot of Europe uses LOWER limits for their class-A equivalents, too. Content: Weather season is in full swing across Florida. It sucks. Pilots: "We're just gonna make a slight right deviation and then direct Cross City when able," is not descriptive of a 40 degree right turn. 
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Jun 13, 2014 22:15
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MrYenko posted:A lot of Europe uses LOWER limits for their class-A equivalents, too. That's why I'll lock them down to 10-15% and make them ask for more if they need it.
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Jun 13, 2014 22:36
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Why keep such a large amount of space between planes, isnt it like a few miles of open air has to be kept between crafts?
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Jun 15, 2014 17:01
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ShadowMoo posted:Why keep such a large amount of space between planes, isnt it like a few miles of open air has to be kept between crafts? Several reasons. The minima are set to provide a margin of safety given known variances in radar accuracy. Controllers aren't necessarily trained on this, but the minima are set by governing agencies and sometime even increase depending on the aircraft's range to the radar antenna. Wake turbulence can trail many miles behind aircraft, requiring increased separation for certain aircraft types. On arrival, aircraft need to be a certain distance in trail to ensure the preceeding aircraft has time to exit the runway before the next one arrives. Also, wake turbulence comes into play a lot since aircraft are on exact straight paths to the runway. Closure rates can be incredibly high, having aircraft buzz too close to each other would cause distress to flight crew and passengers. Already, some legal minimum separation standards are uncomfortably close for some. Separation standards between visual rules aircraft, or a visual and an instrument rules aircraft, don't exist at all in most forms of airspace in the US. All that said, it's very possible to have legal separation that doesn't appear safe. Just as it's possible to have less than required separation without there being a real risk to either aircraft (tried to have that argument in the aviation thread months back and was met with shock and awe). At the end of the day, rules are rules.
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Jun 15, 2014 17:40
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ShadowMoo posted:Why keep such a large amount of space between planes, isnt it like a few miles of open air has to be kept between crafts? In tower there really isn't that much space required as long as you can see them. Normally the most separation is what you need built in to multiple arrivals so there is enough time for the first aircraft to be off the runway by the time the second aircraft crosses the landing threshold. Yes, I know I'm simplifying here... Radar, mostly due to radar coverage, accuracy, and delay between returns. They base the separation requirements on a worst care scenario of information being displayed to you. This becomes more so in an EnRoute environment, and even more extreme once certain altitudes are reached. Then there is wake turbulence. Aircraft have their separation requirements for wake turbulence based off their potential max takeoff weight. So if a plan is right on the cusp, they most likely aren't in that next category except rarely. Things to think about. That and most people actually don't know how wake turbulence works. Down and out. I think Ferret simplified things pretty well there.
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Jun 15, 2014 18:25
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For reference, wake turbulence is a byproduct of lift-generation which is why it's dependent on weight rather than just aircraft type. Here's a video on wake turbulence avoidance that explains what it actually is: http://youtu.be/Zumckf3kT7A
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Jun 16, 2014 14:14
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Jealous Cow posted:For reference, wake turbulence is a byproduct of lift-generation which is why it's dependent on weight rather than just aircraft type. For as important as wake turbulence is it sort of scares me how little a lot of controllers actually know about it. They just get the rules and ignore the rest. I actually have seen EnRoute guys issue CWT advisories (not a requirement EnRoute BTW) and seen MULTIPLE controllers do it wrong. And I would get these death stares when I was in training having to explain to them what they did was completely backwards and wrong. Issuing a CWT to the guy at 390 about the heavy at 380 isn't doing anything except creating excess verbiage and declaring someone trained you wrong. And then they would use the "well I thought you could issue it any time you thought wake turbulence is a possible factor". Ok, well physics and all...
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Jun 28, 2014 20:55
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When you're turning in leave, you're supposed to put in for the shift that you would normally work, right? I tried turning in the last 3 days of leave this week. My last shift is a mid, which has of course already been covered. This would give us 4 on the mid. I've seen this happen when other people turn in leave. My request for that shift was denied in what I assume is an attempt to get me to work in the morning on that day instead. gently caress that. At this point I hope they need 4 on the mid for weather because I'm going to tell them to pound sand and hire overtime.
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Jun 30, 2014 00:03
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My union rep tried to do that a little while ago and was told he couldn't and he wasn't able to get anybody higher up to make a fuss about it either
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Jun 30, 2014 02:51
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fknlo posted:When you're turning in leave, you're supposed to put in for the shift that you would normally work, right? I tried turning in the last 3 days of leave this week. My last shift is a mid, which has of course already been covered. This would give us 4 on the mid. I've seen this happen when other people turn in leave. My request for that shift was denied in what I assume is an attempt to get me to work in the morning on that day instead. gently caress that. At this point I hope they need 4 on the mid for weather because I'm going to tell them to pound sand and hire overtime. Article 24, Section 10 in the CBA: "Requests to cancel annual leave with twenty-four (24) hours notice to the Agency shall be granted. Unless staffing and workload do not permit, requests to cancel annual leave with less than twenty-four (24) hours notice to the Agency shall be granted. An employee who cancels scheduled annual leave and returns to duty shall be assigned to work the shift which he/she would have worked, if the annual leave had not been scheduled, unless staffing and workload dictate or allow assignment to a different shift." Seems like there might be some wiggle room with the last part of the last sentence, but I know I've never had trouble getting the same shift I would have worked if I cancel annual even if it is covered. We usually need all the bodies we can get though, I'm sure its much different for you guys in the center.
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Jun 30, 2014 03:39
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Zochness posted:We usually need all the bodies we can get though, I'm sure its much different for you guys in the center. No, we do too. The morning shift is short, so I assume they want me to work that. Not gonna turn in leave for a "short" weekend. So I hope they have fun with that. edit: The supervisor that's here this morning was rather surprised that the request was denied. He told me that if I want the shift it's mine. I told him I'd rather just keep my leave at this point. He said that's all good, just make sure I tell him that again when he asks me to come in tonight for weather. Love this place. fknlo fucked around with this message at 12:35 on Jun 30, 2014 |
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Jun 30, 2014 10:40
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What's staffing looking like for the other center folks on here? My area is going to be down to multiple 3 man crews since we're losing another guy to airspace. I think we started with 32 or 33 CPC's this year and are either still the same or one under after getting 4 people checked out due to losses to retirement/TMU/desk jobs. The best part is that we keep sending people to TMU to replace people retiring/transferring who were already from our area...
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Jul 22, 2014 20:45
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fknlo posted:What's staffing looking like for the other center folks on here? My area is going to be down to multiple 3 man crews since we're losing another guy to airspace. I think we started with 32 or 33 CPC's this year and are either still the same or one under after getting 4 people checked out due to losses to retirement/TMU/desk jobs. The best part is that we keep sending people to TMU to replace people retiring/transferring who were already from our area... About the same, except the Fri/Sat and Sat/Sun crews, which are hilariously fat. (Seriously, I worked OT the other day, and there were more people on break than plugged in.)
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Jul 22, 2014 20:50
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fknlo posted:What's staffing looking like for the other center folks on here? My area is going to be down to multiple 3 man crews since we're losing another guy to airspace. I think we started with 32 or 33 CPC's this year and are either still the same or one under after getting 4 people checked out due to losses to retirement/TMU/desk jobs. The best part is that we keep sending people to TMU to replace people retiring/transferring who were already from our area... ZJX is overstaffed, except for my area and another. Out of 6 areas, two work the majority of volume/complexity that dictates our pay scale. If you think about ZJX let me know and I'll fill you in on what areas to NOT go to if you actually like breaks. Seriously, the other four areas are so relax they made a guy work over time a few months back because he didn't get enough TOP for the month. He was assigned to the floor the whole time too.
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Jul 23, 2014 13:28
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Tommy 2.0 posted:ZJX is overstaffed, except for my area and another. Out of 6 areas, two work the majority of volume/complexity that dictates our pay scale. If you think about ZJX let me know and I'll fill you in on what areas to NOT go to if you actually like breaks. Seriously, the other four areas are so relax they made a guy work over time a few months back because he didn't get enough TOP for the month. He was assigned to the floor the whole time too. I am so, so sorry about Monday. (What area do you work in?)
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Jul 23, 2014 14:33
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Tommy 2.0 posted:ZJX is overstaffed, except for my area and another. Out of 6 areas, two work the majority of volume/complexity that dictates our pay scale. If you think about ZJX let me know and I'll fill you in on what areas to NOT go to if you actually like breaks. Seriously, the other four areas are so relax they made a guy work over time a few months back because he didn't get enough TOP for the month. He was assigned to the floor the whole time too. What's TOP, if you don't mind me asking?
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Jul 23, 2014 14:44
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FrozenVent posted:What's TOP, if you don't mind me asking? Time On Position. There's a required minimum to stay current.
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Jul 23, 2014 14:56
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In the terminal environment, it's 1 hour per position per month. A total of 4 hours per area per month. So where I work, we have a Tower and a TRACON(Radar Room) so that's 2 areas. You need 4 hours in the Tower, and 4 hours in the TRACON, per month, to stay current. If you lose your currency you have to re-certify on that area with a supervisor. This sometimes happens when people take a lot of leave at once for medical reasons. It's usually not a big deal to recertify unless management already hates you, then it's a good avenue to get rid of you. At the centers, where the above posters work, the currency requirement may be different. If not, then yes they're really saying that some guys aren't working 4 hours per month on certain positions.
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Jul 23, 2014 17:42
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The Ferret King posted:In the terminal environment, it's 1 hour per position per month. A total of 4 hours per area per month. So where I work, we have a Tower and a TRACON(Radar Room) so that's 2 areas. You need 4 hours in the Tower, and 4 hours in the TRACON, per month, to stay current. Dude had less than 6 hours TOP. My area would get that in one day.
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Jul 24, 2014 01:18
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Crossposting this from the Aviation thread:The Slaughter posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gqv8EECMXJM Wait what how did I miss this As a former tower controller this actually gives me all sorts of wood even if it will most likely never be adopted. I've personally wondered how long it would be to get a HUD like setup on the panes in a tower cab and this sort of approach towards it seems to be a step in a good direction. Cons? Not having complete 360 degree visibility (which is necessary). And yes, I understood that you can move the cameras in this, but when you need to look around you don't want the delay of a camera slowing you up. Also, sunlight. Still, the view is better than this radar crap.
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Jul 25, 2014 03:56
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Tommy 2.0 posted:As a former tower Also, sunlight. Still, the view is better than this radar crap. Monitor radiation is like, almost the same thing, man. Also, my area just voted to dim the lights. It's getting even darker in my little slice of the control room.
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Jul 25, 2014 14:59
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MrYenko posted:Monitor radiation is like, almost the same thing, man. Do you ever walk out of work surprised by the fact that it's suddenly become day/night?
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Jul 26, 2014 01:36
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Additional content: I certified on my last three D sides. Mandatory six month seasoning period begins now. KodiakRS posted:Do you ever walk out of work surprised by the fact that it's suddenly become day/night? Ya. Florida's pants-on-head-retarded weather is another one. Beautiful sunny day when you went in? Two hours later, you need a boat to get to your car. MrYenko fucked around with this message at 03:12 on Jul 26, 2014 |
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Jul 26, 2014 03:09
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MrYenko posted:Additional content: I certified on my last three D sides. Mandatory six month seasoning period begins now. Haha, what the gently caress? 6 months seasoning? That is insane. Congrats on getting all your D-sides. Buy yourself something nice that isn't attached to the ground 
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Jul 26, 2014 04:30
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What kind of weather overlay, if any, do you have on your radar displays? I've flown in planes that are weather radar inop and always just asked center/approach if that cloud ahead of me is too bad to fly into and I can usually get a good answer.
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Jul 26, 2014 06:31
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Bob A Feet posted:What kind of weather overlay, if any, do you have on your radar displays? I've flown in planes that are weather radar inop and always just asked center/approach if that cloud ahead of me is too bad to fly into and I can usually get a good answer. Centers use what is called "WARP". It shows moderate, heavy, and extreme precipitation. We have filters that can cut out certain altitudes but have no way of knowing actual tops without reports from pilots. It's generally accurate to within a minute or so. I think the most it can be out of date is in the 6 minute range. It's our responsibility to inform you of weather we have displayed, unfortunately this doesn't always happen when you get busy or are just one of the lazy controllers who assume that all the planes have better radar than you do. Found a picture:  The purple is moderate, the checkered purple and turquoise is heavy, turquoise is extreme. fknlo fucked around with this message at 14:41 on Jul 26, 2014 |
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Jul 26, 2014 14:39
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Bob A Feet posted:What kind of weather overlay, if any, do you have on your radar displays? I've flown in planes that are weather radar inop and always just asked center/approach if that cloud ahead of me is too bad to fly into and I can usually get a good answer. We have a pair of weather overlays, the Air Route Search Radar weather overlay, and the NEXRAD overlay. ARSR is the radar returns from our primary search radars. They display as green hash marks (/) and the letter H on our displays, for moderate and heavy precipitation, and they update pretty much continuously, but aren't ideal, since that radar is designed to find aluminum, not precipitation. NEXRAD is a modified display of raw NEXRAD Doppler radar data, with the sixteen NEXRAD intensity values simplified to four categories, light, medium, heavy, and extreme. Light is filtered off the display, and the others show up as varying shades of blue and blue-green. The only real problem with NEXRAD data is that it isn't continuously updating. We only get a fresh NEXRAD picture every five minutes or so, which can be insufficient to see a hole in the weather closing up during a dynamic thunderstorm, as an example. EDIT: beaten like a ginger. fknlo posted:Haha, what the gently caress? 6 months seasoning? That is insane. Management's "solution" to some problems we've been having as a facility has been to impose some rather ridiculous procedures in the training order. They still don't loving wash anyone out, so I don't loving get it.  ...And you're a terrible influence.
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Jul 26, 2014 14:52
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Bob A Feet posted:What kind of weather overlay, if any, do you have on your radar displays? I've flown in planes that are weather radar inop and always just asked center/approach if that cloud ahead of me is too bad to fly into and I can usually get a good answer. In addition to that, at least at Potomac we have access to a nifty tool from MIT called ITWS (Integrated Terminal Weather System). It displays a bunch of weather data as well as forecasting an hour ahead in ten minute increments. Some of the additional data you get include gust fronts, microburts/wind shear, possible tornadoes, wind speed and direction around the terminal area, lightning information, and so forth.
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Jul 26, 2014 16:51
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It's been properly explained above, but I think it bears repeating for emphasis. What ATC sees on the screen are intensities of precipitation only. We don't know what kind of precipitation it is, nor what altitude it begins and ends. We also don't have any sort of way of depicting convective activity or clouds themselves. We just see precipitation. There are situations where pilots will not wish to fly through certain cloud build ups, but we're depicting nothing on radar. There are also times where we see extreme precipitation depicted, but pilots fly through it because they're above the stuff and in the clear. It's important to understand the limitations of ATC radar in depicting weather, just as it is important for ATC to forward the information we do get to pilots. Exchanging weather information is time intensive, wordy, and really increases workload for all involved. Still, it's very important and Pilot Reports are actually useful. Even if the controller's too busy to take the report, maybe another crew member can pass it to flight service on a second radio. Anything to keep the information spreading.
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Jul 26, 2014 20:56
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MrYenko posted:Additional content: I certified on my last three D sides. Mandatory six month seasoning period begins now. Grats. I know who you can blame for that one (the stupid rear end seasoning).
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Jul 27, 2014 15:45
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Tommy 2.0 posted:Grats. I know who you can blame for that one (the stupid rear end seasoning). Yup. Not being in an active training status is basically the best thing, though.
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Jul 27, 2014 17:03
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MrYenko posted:Not being in an active training status is basically the best thing, though. Yeah it is. Take breaks when you want(not too often though) and no one other than your R side watching everything you do. Just wait till you're all done!
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Jul 27, 2014 21:51
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http://flightclub.jalopnik.com/delta-pilot-freaks-out-at-correction-from-atc-1611650132/+ballaban Here at delta we treat ATC as well as we treat our customers!
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Jul 27, 2014 22:33
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Not a controller or a pilot but it seems like the comments on there suggest that while the pilot was a massive douche, the controller didn't tell him how to get where he wanted him to go?
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Jul 28, 2014 12:01
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thehustler posted:Not a controller or a pilot but it seems like the comments on there suggest that while the pilot was a massive douche, the controller didn't tell him how to get where he wanted him to go? I'm a pilot who worked for an Atlanta-based airline. The controller notified the crew as gently and non-confrontationally as possible and Captain Happy acted like an enormous cock. Like WTF is wrong with you cock-ness. Like maybe you should call off sick and get counseling cock-ness. Possibly attaining turn this loving thing around and go back to the gate, Captain Psycho cock-ness.
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Jul 28, 2014 19:10
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"You want me on Lima or Mike" at the very end is my favorite part
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Jul 29, 2014 01:06
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The airline I work for recently sent out a memo that the FAA has banned opposite direction operations again due to a new policy. I remember that opposite directions were stopped for a while a couple years back following an incident at DCA, but I hadn't heard anything about any recent incidents, and my google-fu doesn't turn up anything newer than the 2012 ban. Does anyone here know what the "new policy" is that banned opposite direction operations again?
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Aug 13, 2014 09:59
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Might be regional. They're still allowed where I am, albeit with the newer rules governing their approval. Supervisor has to get approval from the tower, the opposite direction aircraft can't be any closer than 10nm final before the previous landing aircraft has touched down or the previous departing aircraft has turned away. The 10NM requirement really makes it difficult to approve even at slower airports, but we do them when we can.
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Aug 13, 2014 13:00
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It was a AFI when I was in to not allow opposite direction stuff within 15 miles to airports, so when I went FAA it sort of blew my mind there wasn't much to it at first. Ten still seems lenient to me.
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Aug 13, 2014 17:31
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They haven't re-banned it out at Potomac, they just made it so you have to get a procedure written into the LOA, which we've done with all of our towers.
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Aug 13, 2014 17:34
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