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Jack the Lad posted:Right. Action Surge doesn't give an additional action and "maybe a bonus action" - it gives an additional action on top of your regular action and possible bonus action. Are they definitely doing 3e-style multiclassing? That poo poo was awful.
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Jul 28, 2014 19:25
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Gort posted:Are they definitely doing 3e-style multiclassing? That poo poo was awful. It's in the Basic PDF. But naturally, some of the important details (e.g., proficiencies) are not there, and point to the PHB.
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Jul 28, 2014 19:29
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ProfessorProf posted:Look at the guitar. IT BEGINS posted:There's no way that guitar isn't a bad photoshop over a sword of some kind. It's only got four strings. Dude's a bass player, which is an impressively elegant way to illustrate bards being a support class that nobody really notices is there.
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Jul 28, 2014 19:40
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Gort posted:Are they definitely doing 3e-style multiclassing? That poo poo was awful. Seriously, anyone who doesn't see 5e as basically 3e at this point is deluding themselves.
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Jul 28, 2014 19:42
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That guitar is also an axe btw or it would be in a system that was awesome
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Jul 28, 2014 19:47
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Sir Kodiak posted:It's only got four strings. Dude's a bass player, which is an impressively elegant way to illustrate bards being a support class that nobody really notices is there. Also, he's got enough grip-strength to crush a can of high-gravity dwarven malt liquor without opening it first.
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Jul 28, 2014 19:50
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Um, I could be wrong, but I think that the Bard is a lady, not a dude. The entry intro talks about a female character, and while she might have short hair, her top has some curve to it.
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Jul 28, 2014 20:17
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Vyxzuw posted:Um, I could be wrong, but I think that the Bard is a lady, not a dude. the fluff intros usually talk about several different archetypes, but yeah...the picture could go either way honestly.
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Jul 28, 2014 20:21
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Considering the paragraphs they had on sex before, could be a bit more complicated than that. I'd be surprised if they didn't have at least one character taking advantage of their inclusive attitude.
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Jul 28, 2014 20:32
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Vyxzuw posted:Um, I could be wrong, but I think that the Bard is a lady, not a dude. The word "dude" can be gender-neutral.
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Jul 28, 2014 20:42
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Nihilarian posted:Considering the paragraphs they had on sex before, could be a bit more complicated than that. I'd be surprised if they didn't have at least one character taking advantage of their inclusive attitude. True, and if there was going to be a gender ambiguous character, of course it'd be the elven bard.
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Jul 28, 2014 20:59
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Vyxzuw posted:True, and if there was going to be a gender ambiguous character, of course it'd be the elven bard. Gender Ambiguity is basically a racial feature of elves.
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Jul 28, 2014 21:14
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Sir Kodiak posted:The word "dude" can be gender-neutral. Typically only in the context of some guy trying to cover up how inconsiderate he is with regards to acknowledging women in his presence though.
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Jul 28, 2014 21:31
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Vanadium posted:Typically only in the context of some guy trying to cover up how inconsiderate he is with regards to acknowledging women in his presence though. There's definitely cases where that happens, but in this case I specifically used the word "dude" instead of "he" or "she" because I couldn't tell gender from the drawing and because it communicates certain stereotypes about bass players.
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Jul 28, 2014 21:54
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I've done the all-wizard game, my next game here should be all bards. Taking the band on tour.
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Jul 28, 2014 22:03
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Guitar was always a part of the picture; they've shown that one before. Personally I'm wondering if they allowed bards to give more then like 5 actions a +1d8 every day.
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Jul 28, 2014 22:43
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ProfessorCirno posted:Guitar was always a part of the picture; they've shown that one before. Yeah, the Bard picture was shown pre-release, and it caused some amazing grog-tears over "how can she have a guitar like that in a medieval fantasy setting WHAT ABOUT MY IMMERSION?!"
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Jul 28, 2014 23:43
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If your bard isn't playing bagpipes or an organetto, you're doing it wrong.
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Jul 28, 2014 23:58
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ProfessorCirno posted:The main thing with the Eldritch Knight is that it has no option to attack AND spellcast together. Nah, all those classes failed to really capture the classic BECMI elf, which was a huge staple of D&D until 3E's multiclassing hamstrung it. Strangely enough, the Essentials Hexblade was the best job WotC ever did of recreating that character type. So basically, a fighter who casts wizard spells is the perfect fit for 5E's throwback ethos.
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Jul 28, 2014 23:58
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Ratpick posted:Yeah, the Bard picture was shown pre-release, and it caused some amazing grog-tears over "how can she have a guitar like that in a medieval fantasy setting WHAT ABOUT MY IMMERSION?!" Page 22 of the 3e FRCS, the yarting is a type of guitar. Get hosed, stupid grogs.
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Jul 29, 2014 00:45
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re: popcorn initiative I would prefer to let the dm and players negotiate whether the players or npcs go first, and then the players go in whichever order they want to when it is their turn, and the dm decides which order the npcs go in when it is their turn. So, a two-phase popcorn I guess.
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Jul 29, 2014 01:05
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starkebn posted:re: popcorn initiative A ceremonial Monopoly board is placed on the table. Whoever can flip it most ragefully goes first.
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Jul 29, 2014 01:18
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Bloody Hedgehog posted:A ceremonial Monopoly board is placed on the table. Whoever can flip it most ragefully goes first. maybe a ceremonial copy of the Tomb of Horrors map
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Jul 29, 2014 01:21
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starkebn posted:maybe a ceremonial copy of the Tomb of Horrors map I'd rather play the Tomb of Horrors then play Monopoly ever again. Just saying.
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Jul 29, 2014 01:32
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Sir Kodiak posted:It's only got four strings. Dude's a bass player, which is an impressively elegant way to illustrate bards being a support class that nobody really notices is there. As a support-class fan and also as a lovely bassist... nobody notices you're there until you're not there. Then they're all "Heal me! Buff me! How come the guitar sounds so thin?" e: I'm not saying it's a hard job, but you kinda need someone to do it.
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Jul 29, 2014 02:17
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ProfessorProf posted:Some of these sound so cool but I just know that 5e is going to ruin the potential. Enjoy. Or not. It's up to you. Or it's up to the DM.  
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Jul 29, 2014 03:21
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) is a fighter who gets a few wizard spells, and not anything actually cool or interesting? I would be delighted to be wrong!
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Good timing, I was already typing up this giant EK post. For the hell of it I'm going to compare an Eldritch Knight to just going fighter/mage. I'm going to do a 10 EK, and for the f/m multiclass enough mage levels to equal the EK's spellcasting ability and put the rest into fighter. You could do it different ways but I'm going apples-for-apples as much as possible, to try to make the same character. Exact same starting stats. 16 str, 16 int, 14 con. Same fighting style (defense), in plate mail with a glaive. Going for something tanky, but an amusing side note: you can't cast somatic component spells (almost all of them) without a hand free. So no sword+shield for these characters, using a glaive instead. Fighter 10 (Eldritch Knight) 20 str, 18 int, 14 con, rest don't matter. HP 84 HD 10D10 AC 19, disadvantage on attacks from evil undead/fiends/elementals/fey. AC 24 with Shield spell (5 rounds/day) Special abilities: Second wind (regain 1d10+10), Action surge, Extra attack, Indomitable, War Magic, Eldritch Strike, 3 ASIs spent on 4xStr, 2xInt Spells: 3 cantrips including fire bolt (+8 ranged attack, 2d10dmg), 5 spells of choice plus magic weapon and longstrider Slots: 4 1st, 3 2nd Spell DC 16, spell attacks at +8 Spellbook: Access to only abjuration and evocation schools, no rituals, evos are too low level to be relevant. Attack routine: Cast shocking grasp, +8 touch for 2d8 lightning, disables their reaction, advantage if target wearing metal armor. Move to glaive reach, bonus swing at +10 for 1d10+6 (+1 Magic Weapon). If this hits, target has disadvantage on their save against your next spell. Switch to a cantrip with a save next round if you hit. Strategies: Magic Weapon gives you a +1 weapon which you can bind to yourself to summon. The best spells at your disposal are protection from evil (cast once and forget) and Shield (your primary spell, save all other spell slots for this, +5AC for the whole round when cast as reaction). The EK 'war magic' ability to cast a cantrip+make a melee attack becomes obsolete at level 11 when they get 3 melee attacks per round. Better to swing that glaive three times than to cast a 3d8 shocking grasp + 1 swing of the glaive. Fighter 6 (Champion)/Wizard 4 (Abjurer) 20 str, 18 int, 14 con, rest don't matter. HP 78 HD 6d10, 4d6 AC 19, disadvantage on attacks from evil undead/fiends/elementals/fey AC 24 with Shield spell Special abilities: Second wind (regain 1d10+6), Action surge, Extra attack, weapons crit on 19-20, school of magic (Abjuration), arcane recovery, rituals, 1ASI from wiz4 (spent on 4 STR), 2ASI from ftr6 (spent on 2 INT) Spells: 4 cantrips including Fire Bolt for +8, 1d10 damage Slots: 4 1st, 3 2nd Spell DC 16, spell attacks at +8 Spellbook: Access to all wizard spells and rituals. Attack routine 1: Enlarge self. Two attacks while Large with glaive at +10 for 1d10+1d6+6 (+1 Magic Weapon). Crit on 19-20. Large size gives you greater coverage with your glaive for OAs. Cast Shield if really needed but mostly save spell slots for Enlarge. This isn't as much damage as it looks for level 10, so I'd stay tanky and go with option 2: Attack routine 2: Two attacks with glaive at +10 for 1d10+6 (+1 Magic Weapon). Crit on 19-20. Save spell slots for Shield, use as needed. Strategies: Arcane Ward from abjuration grants 8THP 1/day from your Protection vs Evil spell and 2THP whenever you cast Shield. You have the full range of low-level spells available to you, so at the risk of losing some character focus you can cast stuff like Hold Person and Invisibility and whatever. But you have to choose: if you are going to Shield a lot, you can't Enlarge every fight, and vice-versa. If you do decide to mostly stick with 1 or 2 spells, you can dump INT to 10, take wizard at 1, then fighter at 2, and put more into CON. ~ So the EK turns out to have a gimmick or two, and the F/W multi is more versatile and pretty much better. This gets crazier if you add polearm feats and whatnot, but I'll keep it simple and leave it at that. If you combined EK and Abjurer instead, you would count as a 6th-level mage for spell slots, gaining 2 extra level 3 slots but no level 3 spells (you can upgrade lower level spells). In exchange you would lose the crit bonus. Not really worth it, IMO.
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Jul 29, 2014 03:28
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What's BECMI?
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Jul 29, 2014 04:06
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Basic/Expert/Companion/Masters/Immortal, which is the version of Basic D&D collected in the Rules Cyclopedia.
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Jul 29, 2014 04:27
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I've been following along with the initiative chat because I'm wondering if anything usable will come up for my game (was called SBBQ, currently undergoing a name change). Right now I've got basically standard initiative as we know it, with one option: team initiative. Everyone rolls (the DM doesn't roll for each monster - she just rolls once). The players who beat the DM go first (and can do so in any order, taking their turns essentially simultaneously), then the DM goes for all the monsters, then all the players get to go, then the DM, etc. Multi-initiative monsters aren't much more dangerous than they already were. They were already nasty fuckers, though - but they are solos anyway, so they are supposed to be as nasty as 4 monsters rolled into one. With players that just want to go fast, it speeds things up a lot. With my usual players, who like to optimize loving everything, the negotiations and planning are interminable. Standard initiative was actually faster, I think.
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Jul 29, 2014 04:43
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Most of my real crunchy combat experience has been with pbps, where "group initiative" generally ends up being the norm. It would be nice for a game to be actually balanced against the assumption that the PCs and enemies go in unified waves in mechanical terms, since some games tend to get a little wonky if the PCs can make uninterrupted combos.
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Jul 29, 2014 05:01
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Jimbozig posted:I've been following along with the initiative chat because I'm wondering if anything usable will come up for my game (was called SBBQ, currently undergoing a name change). Right now I've got basically standard initiative as we know it, with one option: team initiative. Everyone rolls (the DM doesn't roll for each monster - she just rolls once). The players who beat the DM go first (and can do so in any order, taking their turns essentially simultaneously), then the DM goes for all the monsters, then all the players get to go, then the DM, etc. The only issue I've seen with team initiative is that it takes away the PC's ability to ruin a plan the monsters are going for. If it's Team PC - Team Monster, then Team Monster can possibly gang up and completely wipe a PC before any PC can actually do anything about it. The PCs are going to be able to act with pretty much perfect coordination, but if the DM does, then a PC can go down really really fast and there's nothing anyone can do about it.
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Jul 29, 2014 05:01
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Gharbad the Weak posted:The only issue I've seen with team initiative is that it takes away the PC's ability to ruin a plan the monsters are going for. If it's Team PC - Team Monster, then Team Monster can possibly gang up and completely wipe a PC before any PC can actually do anything about it. The PCs are going to be able to act with pretty much perfect coordination, but if the DM does, then a PC can go down really really fast and there's nothing anyone can do about it. Yeah, but as DM with team initiative I was always more interested in getting through poo poo quickly and back to the players instead of optimizing my play. So I just went along with my plans in my usual clumsy and careless way.
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Jul 29, 2014 05:18
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ritorix posted:So the EK turns out to have a gimmick or two, and the F/W multi is more versatile and pretty much better. This gets crazier if you add polearm feats and whatnot, but I'll keep it simple and leave it at that. What happens if you open up the EK to choosing any two schools of magic, rather than the two built in? Does any one school particularly change this formula substantially even tho the multi-class still gets any spell? In particular, I've always looked for ways to build a fighter/necromancer and was curious about retooling the EK to do it.
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Jul 29, 2014 08:31
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Lothire posted:What happens if you open up the EK to choosing any two schools of magic, rather than the two built in? Does any one school particularly change this formula substantially even tho the multi-class still gets any spell? honestly i wouldn't be surprised if this is one of their plans for coming up with "new" archetypes for some of the classes for supplements. edit: actually that brings up a good question, what kind of archetypes are not present that people would want to see? alternatively classes/archetypes. treeboy fucked around with this message at 14:02 on Jul 29, 2014 |
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Jul 29, 2014 12:50
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ritorix posted:So the EK turns out to have a gimmick or two, and the F/W multi is more versatile and pretty much better. This gets crazier if you add polearm feats and whatnot, but I'll keep it simple and leave it at that. I was going to ask about fireball and other area attacks but the half-caster progression is so weak that I don't have to bother.
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Jul 29, 2014 14:30
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Paladin preview's out, doesn't show the different oaths yet but it's something. Somehow they've managed to sneak in none LG paladins, wonder how popular that's going to be  
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Jul 29, 2014 23:52
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Orc paladins are cool.
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Jul 30, 2014 00:08
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Lothire posted:What happens if you open up the EK to choosing any two schools of magic, rather than the two built in? Does any one school particularly change this formula substantially even tho the multi-class still gets any spell? The hilarious thing, though, with the EK and the Abjurer is that Abjuration has basically no Wizard spells. Shield and a couple others. All the good buffs that you'd want for a Gish are mostly Transmutation. Which is why, at present, the EK might as well not get any spell slots and instead just get Shield as a 2x/encounter power.
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Jul 30, 2014 00:36
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LFK posted:Opening up the EK to the other schools probably swings it somewhat in the WK's favour for certain level ranges. Doesn't Eldritch Knight also get evocation?
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Jul 30, 2014 00:53
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