Canada Housing/Debt: Trust me, I'm a landlord.

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namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

hahaha

# ? Jul 29, 2014 00:05

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# ? May 29, 2024 05:22

EvilJoven: Mar 18, 2005; NOBODY,IN THE HISTORY OF EVER, HAS ASKED OR CARED WHAT CANADA THINKS. YOU ARE NOT A COUNTRY. YOUR MONEY HAS THE QUEEN OF ENGLAND ON IT. IF YOU DIG AROUND IN YOUR BACKYARD, NATIVE SKELETONS WOULD EXPLODE OUT OF YOUR LAWN LIKE THE END OF POLTERGEIST. CANADA IS SO POLITE, EH?; Fun Shoe

I'm pretty sure that these anecdotes are soon going to give way to statistical data showing that housing pretty much peaked over winter. Aside from a few ultra crazies, most people are starting to wise up to the fact that housing is a terrible investment.

With any luck, two years from now the housing crash will be over, I'll be able to buy a house (because I want one, not because I think it's a decent investment by any means) and interest rates will be allowed to rise to sane levels.

# ? Jul 29, 2014 00:13

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

EvilJoven posted:

I'm pretty sure that these anecdotes are soon going to give way to statistical data showing that housing pretty much peaked over winter. Aside from a few ultra crazies, most people are starting to wise up to the fact that housing is a terrible investment.

With any luck, two years from now the housing crash will be over, I'll be able to buy a house (because I want one, not because I think it's a decent investment by any means) and interest rates will be allowed to rise to sane levels.

If the housing market crashes, the economy is also going to crash. Don't think for one minute the two will be divorced. Not when FIRE accounts for 30% of Canada's GDP. If the economy crashes, interest rates will not be going anywhere. The ultimate nightmare scenario will be a decade of stagflation (as the US economy strengthens). I'm getting a hard on just thinking about it.

# ? Jul 29, 2014 00:16

ocrumsprug: Sep 23, 2010; by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

EvilJoven posted:

I'm pretty sure that these anecdotes are soon going to give way to statistical data showing that housing pretty much peaked over winter. Aside from a few ultra crazies, most people are starting to wise up to the fact that housing is a terrible investment.

With any luck, two years from now the housing crash will be over, I'll be able to buy a house (because I want one, not because I think it's a decent investment by any means) and interest rates will be allowed to rise to sane levels.

Agreed. Anecdotally, I have noticed a distinct decline on asking prices in areas that I am watching. It is possible that these are just the dregs of the area that are finally going on the market, but that is unlikely.

However there will be a pretty big lead time from 200K+ ask declines to where housing probably should be.

# ? Jul 29, 2014 00:34

Lexicon: Jul 29, 2003; I had a beer with Stephen Harper once and now I like him.

Cultural Imperial posted:

If the housing market crashes, the economy is also going to crash. Don't think for one minute the two will be divorced. Not when FIRE accounts for 30% of Canada's GDP. If the economy crashes, interest rates will not be going anywhere. The ultimate nightmare scenario will be a decade of stagflation (as the US economy strengthens). I'm getting a hard on just thinking about it.

You may be unhinged, but goddamn I love reading your posts.

# ? Jul 29, 2014 00:40

ocrumsprug: Sep 23, 2010; by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

Lexicon posted:

You may be unhinged, but goddamn I love reading your posts.

That is actually a pretty reasonable analysis. I cannot even see how the status quo, let alone an actual decrease, doesn't dynamite the economy. If housing no longer has >10% returns, it is inevitable that it will pull back from the % it currently is. That reduction will likely be rapid, and there is nothing that can pick up that much slack.

Unless of course the oil sands continue to out pace every other sector in the country, in a measured manner that is completely non-bubble like.

# ? Jul 29, 2014 01:20

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

Hey I got some LNG here to sell

# ? Jul 29, 2014 01:24

ocrumsprug: Sep 23, 2010; by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

Cultural Imperial posted:

Hey I got some LNG here to sell

That boom will be dead and buried before they even break ground on that terminal. Aren't they already calling it too little, too late?

# ? Jul 29, 2014 01:29

Lexicon: Jul 29, 2003; I had a beer with Stephen Harper once and now I like him.

ocrumsprug posted:

That is actually a pretty reasonable analysis. I cannot even see how the status quo, let alone an actual decrease, doesn't dynamite the economy. If housing no longer has >10% returns, it is inevitable that it will pull back from the % it currently is. That reduction will likely be rapid, and there is nothing that can pick up that much slack.

Unless of course the oil sands continue to out pace every other sector in the country, in a measured manner that is completely non-bubble like.

I was mostly referring to the hard-on.

# ? Jul 29, 2014 01:31

Baronjutter: Dec 31, 2007; "Tiny Trains"

I wish there was a way to just focus all the pain and economic problems on the people causing them. Like distill it into some sort of super concentrate then bury it with them like nuclear waste in a pharaoh's tomb of bad economic policy, maybe have a sphinx of Jim Flaherty out front.

# ? Jul 29, 2014 01:33

ocrumsprug: Sep 23, 2010; by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

Lexicon posted:

I was mostly referring to the hard-on.

I choose to believe that is also reasonable under the circumstances.

:gizz:

# ? Jul 29, 2014 01:41

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

Baronjutter posted:

I wish there was a way to just focus all the pain and economic problems on the people causing them. Like distill it into some sort of super concentrate then bury it with them like nuclear waste in a pharaoh's tomb of bad economic policy, maybe have a sphinx of Jim Flaherty out front.

And bury Joe Oliver alive so that Jim will have a bride in the afterlife.

# ? Jul 29, 2014 03:14

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

http://www.macleans.ca/economy/realestateeconomy/the-dark-side-of-the-renovation-boom/

quote:

The hit Canadian TV show Property Brothers follows a formula as rigid as a newly sistered floor joist. Real-life twin brothers Drew and Jonathan Scott, the former a real estate agent and the latter a contractor, meet a couple searching for a new home. After listening to their list of �must-haves��soaker tub, gourmet kitchen, ensuite bathroom�they tease the prospective buyers by wowing them with a swish pad far beyond their price range. Next, it�s off to view a more affordable but dumpier abode that inevitably draws such reality TV-esque observations as, �When I walked in, I was, like, no.� Unfazed, the winsome brothers�tall, stubbly faced and each capped with a lustrous head of hair�transform the ugly duckling into a magazine-worthy swan through an epic renovation (compressed to the show�s 60-minute run time), making sure to encounter a few dramatic surprises and setbacks along the way.

Now in its fourth season, Property Brothers airs in Canada on the W Network and on HGTV in the United States, where it�s among the U.S. network�s top-rated programs. Brother vs. Brother, another Scott Brothers show, is also a favourite with U.S. audiences. The same goes for W Network�s Love It or List It program. In fact, three out of every four HGTV Canada shows are picked up in the U.S., according to a HGTV Canada spokeswoman. In other words, after all those years fretting about CanCon, we�re now inundating millions of Americans with our non-flag-flying front porches and chesterfield-harbouring living rooms without even realizing it.

The growing universe of made-in-Canada home reno shows, from Deck Wars to Holmes on Homes, is only the most visible example of the country�s preoccupation with redesigns, remodels and wholesale redos. Others include the ubiquitous Dumpster bins dropped on lawns across the country, the decision by U.S. home improvement giant Lowe�s to follow Home Depot into Canada back in 2007, and the seemingly ever-present sound of the neighbour and his trusty circular saw embarking on his latest weekend project.

Total spending associated with residential renovations and repairs has more than doubled since the late 1990s to nearly $64 billion last year, or nearly four per cent of Canada�s GDP, according to a recent report from Altus Group, a Toronto-based property consulting firm. And it has almost nothing to do with a growing population or the increase in the number of houses over that time. In fact, three-quarters of the gains can be directly attributed to Canadians� willingness to open their wallets ever wider, if it means getting a cathedral ceiling in the master bedroom or a heated floor in the basement loo.

How did we get to be such an indulgent and inward-focused lot? Our white-hot housing market had a lot to do with it. Most new homebuyers contemplate at least a few updates before moving in, while sellers now routinely spruce up their properties before listing them, in the hopes of fetching a higher price. And since money is cheap, thanks to record-low interest rates, it has never been easier for Canadians to borrow to get that new breakfast-nook addition or backyard patio. But mostly, it�s driven by the premise that thousands spent on new floors and fixtures is an �investment,� as opposed to mere conspicuous consumption. A 2013 survey by the popular home-remodelling website Houzz found that 60 per cent of Canadians cited �increasing value� as the key motivation to renovate�just as on Love It or List It, when the homeowners learn that $90,000 worth of renos to their tired bungalow just increased its �expected value� by�wait for it�$120,000.

Yet, while all that flying sawdust juiced Canada�s economy, some fear that the remarkably resilient sector (unaffected by the 2009 recession, thanks in part to Ottawa�s home renovation tax credit) could prove to be a house of cards. A hike in interest rates or a slump in home prices�or, more likely, both together�promises to dramatically curtail renovation spending, since homeowners would no longer be able to convince themselves that splurging for tropical hardwood floors will, magically, net them a huge return. Nor is it clear whether the flurry of spending has improved the country�s aging housing stock, or merely painted it several times over with truckloads of expensive lipstick.

It�s the age-old story of wanting to keep up with the Joneses�except that now, the Jones family is a perky young couple armed with a pile of borrowed cash and a pair of grinning TV hosts.

Buying and Selling, a reno-based reality TV show hosted by twin brothers Drew and Jonathan Scott (left), is a small-screen hit. (Sarah Wilson/Getty Images)
Buying and Selling, a reno-based reality TV show hosted by twin brothers Drew and Jonathan Scott (left), is a small-screen hit. (Sarah Wilson/Getty Images)

Canadians� love affair with home renovations is second only to our seemingly insatiable lust for owning real estate�and the two are linked at the hip. A report by TD Economics last year found that renovation spending has increased, on average, at a rate of seven per cent a year since 2003, and that roughly half the growth can be directly attributed to rising numbers of home sales and soaring prices. The reason is simple: In a hot housing market, shelling out $2,000 for a new granite countertop could add another $10,000 or more to the value of a house, providing the buyers fall in love with the kitchen. �In recent years, the idea of staging a house and doing reasonably substantial changes to a house prior to listing has become more the norm in the resale world,� says Peter Norman, Altus Group�s chief economist. �There�s a lot of revamping of kitchens and bathrooms and other types of projects to get a $900,000 house up into the $1.2-million range.�

Norman calls it the �HGTV effect,� and it applies equally to buyers. Many young Canadians shopping for their first home have found themselves squeezed out of hot markets in cities such as Toronto, Vancouver and Calgary. So, instead of trying to compete in vicious bidding wars for �move-in-ready� houses�earlier this year a renovated semi-detached home in Toronto�s west end sold for $210,000 over the asking price, after getting 32 offers�many opt to buy older fixer-uppers and renovate themselves. Depending on the house, fixes can be anywhere from cosmetic updates to complete gut jobs. No wonder Canadians spend, on average, $21,000 more on their homes in the year following the purchase of a house, according to data from the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corp.

Flipping houses has become another lucrative pastime in many cities. Buyers�often contractors�scout out overlooked, rundown homes in otherwise desirable neighbourhoods, and put in a few months� work before turning around and selling the property for substantially more than they paid for it. Sometimes the renovations are truly spectacular, but, more often than not, it�s a case of throwing up some Ikea cabinetry on the kitchen walls and laying cheap laminate flooring directly over the concrete pad in the basement.

It�s not only buying or selling their houses that prompts homeowners to spend. Merely watching house prices inch higher in a hot market is sufficient. Economists call it the �wealth effect,� and TD cites studies that show for �every $1 increase in wealth due to home-price appreciation, households go out and spend an additional nickel�a chunk of which ends up in renovations.� Though they may not be as noticeable to neighbours, Norman says, most renovations are smaller jobs in the $3,000-to-$7,000 range�finishing a basement, knocking down a wall or two. He adds that Canada�s Baby Boomers have contributed to the reno boom because many are opting to stay in their homes, rather than downsize to a condo. �A lot of renovations are aimed at adapting homes for those pre-retirement years,� he says.

It seems there�s a never-ending list of things that need attention. The last big building boom in Canada occurred in the mid-1980s, meaning that many of those houses are now reaching the age where updates are required� and not just because brass fixtures and billowy window treatments are no longer in vogue. Blaine Swan, a home inspector and the president of the Canadian Association of Home and Property Inspectors, says many structures erected in the era are suffering from mould and other moisture-related problems, because builders had begun increasing levels of insulation in, and airtightness of homes, but didn�t always improve ventilation systems. �We started living in a plastic bag,� he says.

Even the country�s recent condo boom is a driver. While most of the soaring towers erected in cities such as Toronto, Calgary and Vancouver are still relatively new, the renovation cycle for units tends to be shorter, since part of the appeal of condo living is a swish, contemporary design. And, as new condo construction lures people back downtown, prompting the opening of new restaurants, coffee shops and yoga studios, it is simultaneously raising the value of older inner-city homes�the ones most likely to be in need of the biggest upgrades.

The growing number of made-in-Canada reno shows, including Holmes on Homes, highlights our preoccupation with wholesale re-dos. (HGTV)
The growing number of made-in-Canada reno shows, including Holmes on Homes, highlights our preoccupation with wholesale re-dos. (HGTV)

With tearing down and rebuilding property now a national pastime, it�s little wonder TV producers have tapped the reno trend for reality-TV treatment. Christine Shipton, the vice-president of original content at Shaw Communications� media division, which owns HGTV Canada, says the genre really took off in earnest about three or four years ago�just as Canada�s housing market resumed its skyward climb following a brief lull during the recession. Prior to that, she says, most of the shows on the network were more �decorator-centric,� focusing on furniture, paint colours and clever ways to spruce up the patio. Those shows that did focus on renovations tended to target DIYers, following the sort of how-to format pioneered by PBS�s This Old House back in the 1980s. Even Mike Holmes, whose popular Holmes on Homes show first aired in 2001, was initially liked by audiences mainly because of his expertise and the way he verbally disembowelled the shoddy work of the contractors and developers who had preceded him.

These days, by contrast, the renos and the homeowners undertaking them have taken centre stage. �It�s not just the personalities of the hosts,� says Shipton. It�s also about �the people who are renovating their homes, what their stories are, what the stakes are for them and how it changes their lives.� In other words, renos make for good television, with their unexpected surprises, high stakes and big payoff at the end. Which is fine, as long as those contemplating real-life renos realize that most projects featured on TV aren�t simple weekend jobs, and they�re not mortgaging their future in the process.

Sadly, however, that appears to be just what Canadians are doing. A Bank of Canada report two years ago found an average of $8 billion in annual renovation spending between 1999 and 2010 was financed through debt, including loans borrowed against the existing value of real estate through home equity lines of credit, or HELOCs. The Houzz survey found that a growing number of Canadians borrow to pay for their renos, with 34 per cent saying they would take out a line of credit in 2013, compared to 14 per cent a year earlier.

Call it the dark side of the country�s reno obsession. At a time when Canadians are awash in mortgage and other debt, owing an average $1.63 for every disposable dollar earned, many are gleefully doubling down on a single, relatively illiquid asset class: housing. And they�re doing so at a time when many observers believe it�s hugely overvalued. Debt-rating agency Fitch estimates Canadian home prices are, on average, 20 per cent too high; other forecasts are even more dour. If there�s a significant correction, or a crash, homeowners will not only be faced with both the declining value of their homes, but paying back tens of thousands to the bank on top of it�potentially leaving them on the hook for more than their homes are worth.

It�s not just a risk to those renovating, but the economy as a whole. The debt-fuelled reno trend has played a major role in artificially inflating the price of houses in Canada, as eager buyers take advantage of cheap mortgage rates to compete in bidding wars for showpiece homes, each offering tens of thousands more than the next. Nor is it just people who plan on living in the homes who are responsible for soaring prices. In cities such as Toronto and Vancouver, buyers often find themselves competing head-to-head with contractors or other real estate professionals keen to buy cheaper properties that can be renovated and flipped at a huge profit. Add it all together and it�s akin to throwing gasoline on a raging brush fire�an inferno Ottawa has tried to cool four times by tightening restrictions on government-backed mortgage insurance, albeit with little effect.

The concern is what happens to consumer spending, and the economy it supports, if the housing bubble pops. �Household spending on consumption and home renovation can become vulnerable to house-price shocks,� concluded the Bank of Canada, noting that countries that had the biggest increases in home prices and debt-to-income ratios in the run-up to the 2008 crash experienced the biggest hit to spending during the recession that followed. Put another way, Canadians will suddenly feel poorer and more indebted, prompting them to snap their wallets shut. Even a modest correction could have a significant impact, given housing and the various industries that support it make up a quarter of Canada�s GDP, by some estimates. �The psychology would change, such that a new kitchen won�t so easily be justiﬁed as an �investment� when property values are falling,� says Ben Rabidoux, the president of North Cove Advisors, a research firm. He adds that spending would be further affected by the challenge of borrowing money, since �HELOC and cash-out refinancing lending would tighten,� as the assets securing the loans�people�s homes�fall in value.

renovation graph

At least Canadians could comfortably wait out the carnage in their well-appointed castles, right? Maybe not. Though rarely talked about, there�s mounting evidence to suggest Canadians are mostly loading up on cosmetic improvements (the type most often depicted on TV shows) and ignoring more important fixes that would make their homes more comfortable and energy-efficient in the long term. Russell Richman is a professor of building science at Toronto�s Ryerson University. A few years ago, he bought a dilapidated century-old home in Toronto�s east end and made his $300,000 reno a real-world experiment in sustainable building practices. �We did really easy things, like high insulation levels, really good windows, tight air-leakage ratings, an efficient [radiant in-floor heating] system and LED lighting,� he says, adding that the energy-efficient extras contributed between $40,000 to $60,000 to the final price tag. �We operate the house in a tree-hugger, nuts-and-berries fashion. I have the windows open most of the summer while my neighbours close the windows on June 1st and put on the AC.� The result? A recent test comparing his house to his neighbour�s showed he used a fraction of the air conditioning in the summer and about half the energy to heat the house during the winter. �Five to 10 years and beyond, you will actually start to make money on this type of investment.�

Unique among his renovation-happy neighbours, Richman fears we�re collectively missing an opportunity to upgrade the country�s aging housing stock, just as many predict energy costs are poised to spike. �At the end of the day, most of the stuff we see in the pop-culture media is house porn,� he says. �But, to me, everything you don�t see in a house is equally as important as what you do see. If you spend $5,000 on the floors, it should be in our psyche to spend $5,000 behind the drywall. We need to move toward that.�

Canadians also need to move away from the idea that renovations are an easy way to make money. Those who�d balk at borrowing thousands to bet on stocks think nothing of doing so to gamble on home improvements, reasoning they�ll recoup the cost or even earn a profit. But earning a return on your renos only works if you undertake the right ones, then sell immediately in a rising market. (Those brand-new floors will be a lot less valuable after being subjected to the family dog for a few years.) Even then, there are no guarantees�other than laying the groundwork for some future TV-show makeover, of course.

# ? Jul 29, 2014 03:16

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

ocrumsprug posted:

That boom will be dead and buried before they even break ground on that terminal. Aren't they already calling it too little, too late?

Oh it's crazy low at like, 12 bucks per BTU. Unfortunately Her Right Honourable Premier Christy Clark is counting on selling it to the chinese to grow BC's economy.

# ? Jul 29, 2014 03:18

shrike82: Jun 11, 2005

I like to think of Cultural Imperial as the id of the Canadian housing market.

# ? Jul 29, 2014 05:39

etalian: Mar 20, 2006

Cultural Imperial posted:

http://www.macleans.ca/economy/realestateeconomy/the-dark-side-of-the-renovation-boom/

The HELOC craziness was also another big feature of the US real estate bubble.

Let's get granite countertops and marble bathroom remodels since the price can only go up up up.

# ? Jul 29, 2014 06:41

Professor Shark: May 22, 2012

So the entire idea behind adding $6,000 in kitchen renovations increasing your Home Value by $10,000 is that you do it yourself, right? or is it just magic?

# ? Jul 29, 2014 12:24

tagesschau: Sep 1, 2006; D&D: HASBARA SQUAD
THE SPEECH SUPPRESSOR

Remember: it's "antisemitic" to protest genocide as long as the targets are brown.

Professor Shark posted:

So the entire idea behind adding $6,000 in kitchen renovations increasing your Home Value by $10,000 is that you do it yourself, right? or is it just magic?

It's magic in the sense that you're almost certainly riding an inflating bubble if you can do it reliably. In general, you would get less than $6,000 in increased value, but some non-zero amount of personal enjoyment of your new kitchen.

# ? Jul 29, 2014 13:26

Rick Rickshaw: Feb 21, 2007; I am not disappointed I lost the PGA Championship. Nope, I am not.

Pretty hard to ~~make money~~ break even on renos when you're hiring contractors. It's hard enough when you're doing it yourself.

I think there is some magic in it, in the sense that it's nice if you can find that perfect time frame to do renovations, where you still have some time to live in and enjoy the newly renovated space before you sell, but also before you and/or your minions destroy the new *insert housing porn toy here*.

Rick Rickshaw fucked around with this message at 13:30 on Jul 29, 2014

# ? Jul 29, 2014 13:26

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repo...rticle19815811/

quote:

Looking over a 2007 report on Irish real estate last week, I got a chill when I ran across this line: �Most available evidence would now appear to suggest that the housing market appears to be on the way to achieving a soft landing.�

Sound familiar? It�s a line Canadians have been hearing for years, recently from Finance Minister Joe Oliver and the Bank of Canada.

Looking at the Irish experience, that �soft landing� assurance might be seen as more of a warning shot.

That�s not to say the Canadian housing market is poised for a crash the likes of which were seen in Ireland and the United States about six years ago. But Ireland is now looking at Canada with envy when, perhaps instead, we should be learning from them.

Genworth Financial Inc., for one, which sells mortgage insurance in several countries, is suggesting Ireland take a page from the Canadian model.

�Canada has had a universal mortgage insurance scheme in place for over 50 years,� Genworth Canada senior vice-president Winsor Macdonell said in a recent press release, urging the Irish government to adopt a mortgage insurance program.

�During the recent financial crisis, the benefits of this scheme were very evident as the Canadian housing market performed well. The availability of mortgage insurance helped ensure that lenders had the ability and confidence to write new mortgages, making home financing available for first-time buyers at affordable rates.�

Mortgage insurance has indeed played a role in fuelling Canada�s housing market, and economy. It is mandatory here any time a federally regulated bank sells a mortgage to someone whose down payment is less than 20 per cent. The bank is required to buy the insurance, but it makes the home buyer pay the premiums. The insurance pays the bank back if the home buyer defaults � the buyer loses their house, while the bank recoups everything it was owed on the mortgage. The insurance therefore encourages banks to lend bigger and riskier mortgages than they otherwise would.

It is one of the reasons why Canadian banks continued to lend mortgages even in the tumultuous years after the financial crisis. Thanks to that, spending on homes and construction has given the economy a big hand. But mortgage insurance has also inflated home prices by allowing people to buy homes they otherwise couldn�t afford. If the market were ever to crash, those who have overextended themselves will be hit hard.

Many economists believe our house prices are too high. Our market might keep on humming without any significant price correction, it might not. It hasn�t truly been tested yet.

Last week, Bank of Montreal chief economist Doug Porter, who has long defended Canada�s housing market, signalled that he has become more cautious. That�s because he sees three factors propping up the market: rock-bottom mortgage rates, foreign buyers, and the fact that we�re in the peak first-time home-buying years for the large, echo-boom generation (those ages 20 to 38 ). These factors could bolster the market for years yet, but Mr. Porter raises the question, what happens when they dry up?

Ireland emerged from its international bailout program last December, but its housing market remains dysfunctional. The crash cut average property values in half. Many homeowners� houses are worth less than the amounts they owe on their mortgages. A large number are still behind on their payments. And, with many banks still recovering, the central bank estimates that roughly half of people who bought homes in the past three years likely used cash.

The potential creation of a mortgage insurance framework is now one of 75 �action points� the Irish government is looking at to reinvigorate its construction industry, and the jobs it once sustained.

But a word of advice to the Irish government: don�t envy us just yet. A decade from now, it might be us looking at you with envy, as the worst will be behind you and your market will be stronger for it. In an effort to prevent a reversal in fortunes between the two countries, we should be taking lessons from you � lessons you learned the hard way. Those include the dangers that stem from a lack of adequate data to study the housing market, the dangers of promoting the idea that homeownership is almost always preferable to renting, the dangers of relying on construction for economic growth, and, importantly, the dangers of assuring people that a soft landing is on the horizon.

Up until this article, I had never read anything from Tara Perkins that even vaguely resembled an opinion on Canada's housing market. I think she's probably the best real estate reporter in Canada because of her objectivity. This article is a turning point.

# ? Jul 29, 2014 15:19

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

Pictures stolen from r/vancouver.

I loving love this development. I drive by it at night all the time and it's nearly completely uninhabited. It completed back in February. 1 million dollars and you too can live in a supermax prison.

# ? Jul 30, 2014 04:22

tagesschau: Sep 1, 2006; D&D: HASBARA SQUAD
THE SPEECH SUPPRESSOR

Remember: it's "antisemitic" to protest genocide as long as the targets are brown.

I think you mean a su p ermax pr i son.

# ? Jul 30, 2014 04:23

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

tagesschau posted:

I think you mean a su p ermax pr i son.

In all seriousness, we should be thanking these developers for so thoughtfully devising a method to keep the glass from falling out of windows and killing someone below.

# ? Jul 30, 2014 04:36

The Ender: Aug 2, 2012; MY OPINIONS ARE NOT WORTH THEIR WEIGHT IN SHIT

quote:

Every time I read this thread, any desire I have of moving back to Vancouver disappears. I thought when I moved to London (UK)in 2010 that the housing prices here were bad (now looking to buy in London). Does Vancouver still suffer from poorly built condos/apartments (another reason why I want to buy in London - everything is made of brick and lasts for ages)

Unsure of the mainland, but I've found the quality of condos / apartments on the island to be 'average'. It's about the same I've seen in Alberta, with equivalent interiors (but often larger space) to anything in Scotland or France - but the exteriors are still mostly cheap siding vs the European tendency towards masonry (or re-purposed old structures that have been standing for a hojillion years because lol stone).

There was a short piece on the local news not that long ago about a 'historical neighborhood' in Vancouver with apparently 'culturally significant' houses being bulldozed to make way for some McMansions. I had to laugh, because these historical houses were all just cheap, run down derelicts made of particle board & spray-on stucco (not that the McMansions were any better, but lolz at what counts as 'historical' in some places).

# ? Jul 30, 2014 04:40

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

but at least we still have the bowmac sign on broadway

# ? Jul 30, 2014 04:44

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

http://youtu.be/_FttJkG_Lvg

# ? Jul 30, 2014 16:34

FrozenVent: May 1, 2009; The Boeing 737-200QC is the undisputed workhorse of the skies.

Cultural Imperial posted:

http://youtu.be/_FttJkG_Lvg

Yo embed that poo poo.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FttJkG_Lvg

13.7% GUARANTEED YEARLY RETURN!

Video needs more explosions though. Like bombs going off as the words CONDOMINIUM! AT! VIP! PRICES! appear on the screen or something.

FrozenVent fucked around with this message at 16:39 on Jul 30, 2014

# ? Jul 30, 2014 16:37

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

Bro cut me some slack I am phone postin from the shitter

# ? Jul 30, 2014 17:00

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

http://www.scmp.com/article/1529809/nose-jobs-champagne-and-lamborghinis-hot-mess-ultra-rich-asians-vancouver

quote:

Of all the manifestations of Vancouver�s rise as a global epicentre for wealth migration, �Hot Bitches in Charge TV� may be the most garish yet.

The planned �reality� show, starring a yet-to-be-cast bevy of �ultra-rich Asian girls in Vancouver�, is up against some serious competition. Consider the enormous �monster houses� that sprang up like stucco mushrooms in the city�s leafy neighbourhoods in the run-up to the Hong Kong handover. Or the N-plated Ferraris and custom-painted Bentleys that cruise Richmond�s Number 3 Road.

HBICtv creator Kevin Li, born and bred on Vancouver�s working-class Eastside, has watched the demographics of the city�s 400,000-strong Chinese community shift over time. �Growing up, the first Chinese people I knew were like me,� said Li this week. �The second generation were the Hong Kong immigrants � The past 10 years I�ve noticed another generation, the ones who are even more affluent, who have more money to spend. I was wondering �who are these people?��

Li isn�t alone in his curiosity. Since announcing a casting call for his HBICtv show last week, Li has been inundated with interest from around the world. Much has focused on a promotional video for the June 26 casting call, which features a group of pretty, Putonghua-speaking women guzzling champagne, zooming around in Lamborghinis and spending money like there�s no tomorrow. �As long as we have fun, who cares about spending a little bit of money,� opines �Crystal Chen�, in between catty remarks about a fellow diva�s nose job.

Li, who is producing the show with his Veyron Media partner Desmond Chen, isn�t worried that he is perpetuating a negative stereotype of Chinese immigrants in Vancouver as nouveau-riche vulgarians.

�These will be four or five girls, who are having fun, spending daddy�s money, that are enjoying life and funding an economy. I really don�t know what�s so bad about that�worse is if you are quick to judge people based on where they come from and what they have,� said Li. �Some people�s minds have already been made up, about what, quote unquote, �these people� are like. What this show is meant to do is let people in on who these people are�we are all so quick to judge, �these people are from China, they�ve got money, so they are bad�. There is way more to it than that and that is what this show will open up.�

But isn�t the point of the show that viewers want to see bad behaviour? �What is considered bad behaviour?� said Li. �So if these girls backstab each other, they are train wrecks, they cause drama amongst each other, well OK, that�s bad behavior...but at the end of the day, I�m trying to show a different side. Whatever way you want to interpret that is your own prerogative.�

Thirteen episodes are initially planned, with one Chinese broadcaster already expressing interest in picking up the show, according to Li, who has worked in broadcast media for 16 years.

He admitted that not all of the girls in the promotional video are actual ultra-rich Asian divas, although some are and are being considered for roles in the show. �At this point I cannot share which ones actually live that lifestyle and which ones don�t. [The ones that don�t,] I wouldn�t say they were �actresses�. They are friends.�

Li said HBICtv is not limiting himself to mainland Chinese divas, and is happy to consider any ultra-rich Asian girls, whether they are from Hong Kong, Singapore, Taiwan, Korea or elsewhere.

He said he was caught off guard by the huge response to his show, which has featured in local and Chinese media as well as the Wall Street Journal. Li said that for 10 years he produced �Chinese-Canadian content, Asian-North American content, documentaries� and the media attention and the views I got in the past week outweighs all of them�.

�Everything I wanted to do about Chinese history, Chinese-Canadian history, nobody wants to know about it,� he said with a laugh. �Nobody watched it. So I stopped those programmes, Asian lifestyle TV, because of a lack of funding. This [HBICtv] is what people really want to talk about.�

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Ud9Tg5VePM

Now tell me you don't sympathize with my avatar.

# ? Jul 30, 2014 17:16

LemonDrizzle: Mar 28, 2012; neoliberal shithead

Cultural Imperial posted:

Now tell me you don't sympathize with my avatar.

Vulgar wealthy people: a phenomenon completely exclusive to those disgusting inferior mainland chinese.

# ? Jul 30, 2014 17:23

Baronjutter: Dec 31, 2007; "Tiny Trains"

Yeah the bourgeois are pretty terrible so... murder all asians ??

# ? Jul 30, 2014 17:24

computer parts: Nov 18, 2010; PLEASE CLAP

LemonDrizzle posted:

Vulgar wealthy people: a phenomenon completely exclusive to those disgusting inferior mainland chinese.

Didn't HKers invent the vulgar wealthy Chinese person?

# ? Jul 30, 2014 17:29

Rutibex: Sep 9, 2001; by Fluffdaddy

FrozenVent posted:

Yo embed that poo poo.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FttJkG_Lvg

13.7% GUARANTEED YEARLY RETURN!

Video needs more explosions though. Like bombs going off as the words CONDOMINIUM! AT! VIP! PRICES! appear on the screen or something.

I love how everything has a asterisk after it.

# ? Jul 30, 2014 17:47

Baronjutter: Dec 31, 2007; "Tiny Trains"

computer parts posted:

Didn't HKers invent the vulgar wealthy Chinese person?

The entire HK identity now revolves exclusively around "not being quite as vulgar as mainland Chinese"

# ? Jul 30, 2014 17:53

Kafka Esq.: Jan 1, 2005; "If you ever even think about calling me anything but 'The Crab' I will go so fucking crab on your ass you won't even see what crab'd your crab" -The Crab(TM)

you know what I just realized, that picture in CI's avatar is a Vietnamese general killing a suspected Vietcong and has barely anything to do with China

# ? Jul 30, 2014 18:11

ZShakespeare: Jul 20, 2003; The devil can cite Scripture for his purpose!

Cultural Imperial posted:

Bro cut me some slack I am phone postin from the shitter

This explains the demeanor of this entire thread.

# ? Jul 30, 2014 20:16

Rime: Nov 2, 2011; by Games Forum

Kafka Esq. posted:

you know what I just realized, that picture in CI's avatar is a Vietnamese general killing a suspected Vietcong and has barely anything to do with China

Dem gooks awl looks a-liek anyways.

# ? Jul 30, 2014 20:52

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

ZShakespeare posted:

This explains the demeanor of this entire thread.

Have you met any vancouverites IRL?

# ? Jul 30, 2014 21:27

JawKnee: Mar 24, 2007; You'll take the ride to leave this town along that yellow line

Cultural Imperial posted:

Have you met any vancouverites IRL?

yep, plenty of awesome people here if you aren't a reclusive shut-in terrified of people that aren't rich/pretending to be rich

# ? Jul 30, 2014 22:54

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# ? May 29, 2024 05:22

Baronjutter: Dec 31, 2007; "Tiny Trains"

JawKnee posted:

yep, plenty of awesome people here if you aren't a reclusive shut-in terrified of people that aren't rich/pretending to be rich

Yeah, most all my friends ended up moving to Vancouver over the last decade because it has even more career options than Victoria. None of them are poo poo heads, none of them own anything, all their friends are pretty cool. Just a nice hoard of 30-something working class renters trying to get by in an ok city with a lot of lovely property owners.

I'm sure if you went to any city and mostly only interacted with yuppie condo owners or "upper middle class" suburban equity builders you'd be mostly interacting with lovely people.

# ? Jul 30, 2014 22:57

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Canada Housing/Debt: Trust me, I'm a landlord.

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