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Ukraine apparently expects U.S. support. http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/03/17/ukraine-sanctions-too-little-too-late.html Shots fired today, Ukrainian soldier killed. http://m.washingtonpost.com/news/vo...-wound-another/ This is probably going to spiral into a proper war soon, with or without foreign involvement.
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Mar 18, 2014 20:20
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPpKdLkSDf8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7omRYNqM3vM What is happening?
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May 10, 2014 07:04
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utjkju posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPpKdLkSDf8 There is a lot of sentiment for the Soviet Union, especially with the pensioners. It was a simpler time in the 60's and 70's, and there was unity in Ukraine and Russia as with the rest of the Soviet Union (more or less). As far as the man giving the speech, you'd need to hear all of it to get it's full context. My Ukranian isn't great at all, I can hardly pick it out. But I would guess that he is pardoning Hitler.
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Jun 8, 2014 08:16
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NE18iPQ1Euk Пишу на русском, т. к. на английском это не выразить. Ребята, украинцы, вы там охренели? Вы какого хера своих же мирных жителей мочите? Это что, блять, за антитеррористическая операция такая? Мы в РФ принимаем ваших беженцев тысячами, у нас по областям режим ЧС вводят, т. к. с потоком беженцев с Украины не справляемся. Мы ваших женщин и детей тут кормим, лечим, одеваем. Понимаем, что они не виноваты в этой войне. Но вы то что творите? И я, блин, заинтересованное лицо, т. к. мой отец родился на Украине, и родных у меня на Украине до хера. И мне можете не втирать всякую хрень. Я без СМИ знаю обстановку на Украине. Домайданились, блять... Не матерных слов у меня уже не осталось.
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Jul 29, 2014 13:54
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What? Google translate does not help understand that, unless you are talking about how you are raping Ukraine.
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Jul 30, 2014 04:52
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"I write in Russian, as I can't express this in English. Guys, Ukrainians, are you hosed in the head? Why the gently caress are you killing peaceful civilians? What kind of anti-terrorist operation is this? Here in the Russian Federation, we take your asylum seekers by the thousand. Some regions have a state of emergency because they cannot deal with the influx of refugees. We feed, heal, clothe your women and children here. We know the war is not their fault. What are you doing? And yes, I am an interested party. My father was born in the Ukraine, and I have a fuckton of family there. Cut the bullshit. I know how it is there without watching the news. Maidaned enough? I don't have polite words anymore."
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Jul 30, 2014 05:10
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Ensign Expendable posted:"I write in Russian, as I can't express this in English. Thanks, that makes way more sense than what I got.
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Jul 30, 2014 05:12
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RFC2324 posted:What? Google translate does not help understand that, unless you are talking about how you are raping Ukraine. Many bad words in russian language have not analogues in English language. I swore, because many women and children were killed. For example, yesterday army of Ukraina shot on the bus with refugees from Gorlovka. Child was killed. utjkju fucked around with this message at 06:53 on Jul 30, 2014 |
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Jul 30, 2014 06:40
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There would be no war if Russia didnt allow boyeviks across the border and give them all sorts of heavy weaponry. Both sides either dont seem to care about the civilians or are grossly incompetent to use all the artillery they have at their disposal.
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Jul 31, 2014 00:12
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Anti-Maidan uprisings were a common sight all the way back in November. Russian support has nothing to do with it. The South-East has been, historically, very pro-Russian.
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Jul 31, 2014 05:38
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Both sides, obviously, have obfuscated the truth to some degree. The fate of who controls the country is at stake, and the leaders said to be representing the Western Ukrainian and Eastern Ukrainians will stop at nothing to appear in the right. We in the West were appalled at the old government's corruption, and Russia's meddling in a sovereign nations affairs. Those in the East see the Western Ukrainian leadership as a bunch of thugs who beat as bludgeoned their way to power. I think it's fair to say that this is the underlying narrative that both the Russian and "first-world" media choose to present. To me, there are a few points of interest. 1) Obviously, the people of Kiev and surrounding areas overwhelmingly did not support the last president. 1) What's iffy is whether the Eastern Ukrainians supported the last president as a way to stick it to the agenda they perceived the Westerner's to have, or if they just don't feel they had a lot of input in who got into power. A) we actually saw that the people if Crimea didn't stay within the Ukraine long enough to even attempt to vote for a new president. As well, we saw that the rebels blocked and used intimidation to stop the rebel held areas from voting 3) I'm not even sure how these politicians who were up for election in Ukraine were chosen. They seem to very well be the people who profited off the last regime. Can they be trusted? 4) it's shameful how Russia interfered in another sovereign country's affairs. There argument for protecting ethnic Russians is ridiculous. It's like England sending in the troops to the US to protect the ethnic English after the event of an uprising.
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Jul 31, 2014 05:56
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kapsas posted:There would be no war if Russia didnt allow boyeviks across the border and give them all sorts of heavy weaponry. Both sides either dont seem to care about the civilians or are grossly incompetent to use all the artillery they have at their disposal. Government of Russia does not sponsor boyeviks. But you must understand, that very many people from Ukraina are relatives of people from Russia. I have many questions about the civilians. Why goverment of Ukraina does not evacuate civilians from the territory of anti-terrorist operation? This is responsibility of goverment. But "boyeviks" organizes evacuate civilians. Why?
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Jul 31, 2014 06:10
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Ferdinand the Bull posted:Both sides, obviously, have obfuscated the truth to some degree. The fate of who controls the country is at stake, and the leaders said to be representing the Western Ukrainian and Eastern Ukrainians will stop at nothing to appear in the right. You forget about Krym referendum.
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Jul 31, 2014 06:17
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utjkju posted:You forget about Krym referendum. The validity of a referendum conducted with foreign troops and Cossacks is questionable. I'm not doubting that there is strong support for Russia in Crimea. I am doubting, as I doubted the Ukrainian election as well, the legitimacy of the referendum process. It's documented that large swaths of the Crimean population, such a the Tatars, boycotted it. As well, an non-partisan international regulatory committee did not oversee the process.
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Jul 31, 2014 06:46
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Ferdinand the Bull posted:The validity of a referendum conducted with foreign troops and Cossacks is questionable. Who talks about foreign troops and Cossacks in Crym? Mass-media of USA?
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Jul 31, 2014 06:54
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utjkju posted:Who talks about foreign troops and Cossacks in Crym? Mass-media of USA? There are plenty of images, videos, eyewitness accounts, what have you. It happened it's well-documented, from multiple sources, including the US media.
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Jul 31, 2014 06:58
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Ferdinand the Bull posted:There are plenty of images, videos, eyewitness accounts, what have you. СNN wrote about 3 ballistic missiles, which Ukrain army fired. What do you think about this information? This is truth?
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Jul 31, 2014 07:20
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utjkju posted:Government of Russia does not sponsor boyeviks. yes, thats what your media tells you all day long, doesnt make it true though. Where do you think separatists got their weapons and ammunition. Yes, they looted some Ukrainian army bases but the war has lasted now for months. Also separatists have weapons that Ukrainian army doesnt have, where do you think they got them? Also, Russia has kept the border open for boyeviks. So far close to 10,000 men have entered Ukraine. None of this would have happened if Russia had the will to stop it. But this bloodshed is good for Kreml. Putins approval ratings have gone up considerably, they have gained land (Crimea) and have a trump card (separatists) when it should come to talks. And when diplomacy fails (which it will) they are in a position to gain even more from the fallout. utjkju posted:I have many questions about the civilians. Why goverment of Ukraina does not evacuate civilians from the territory of anti-terrorist operation? This is responsibility of goverment. Ukrainian army is the one on offensive. Quite difficult to evacuate people who happen to be in areas which separatists control.
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Jul 31, 2014 09:20
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kapsas posted:yes, thats what your media tells you all day long, doesnt make it true though. Where do you think separatists got their weapons and ammunition. Yes, they looted some Ukrainian army bases but the war has lasted now for months. Also separatists have weapons that Ukrainian army doesnt have, where do you think they got them? Also, Russia has kept the border open for boyeviks. So far close to 10,000 men have entered Ukraine. None of this would have happened if Russia had the will to stop it. But this bloodshed is good for Kreml. Putins approval ratings have gone up considerably, they have gained land (Crimea) and have a trump card (separatists) when it should come to talks. And when diplomacy fails (which it will) they are in a position to gain even more from the fallout. You do not understand. For example, i have father. He from Ukraina, but he lives in Tomsk. My grandmother, aunt, uncle live in the East Ukraina. Son of aunt lives in Russia. Brother of son of aunt lives in Ukraina. But wife of brother of son of aunt from Russia. And etc. For example, my friend was born in Russia. But now he lives in Ukraina. He has wife from Ukraina. Father wife of my friend was born in Ukraine, but lives in Russia. And etc. And there are very, very many people, who have relatives from Ukraina. And, for example, father talks son (son lives in Russia): "Army of Ukraina killed mother". And the son will go to be at war with those who killed his mother. And why Government of Russia must stop it? It is unreal. kapsas posted:Ukrainian army is the one on offensive. Quite difficult to evacuate people who happen to be in areas which separatists control. And why army of Ukraine kill refugees?
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Jul 31, 2014 10:10
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utjkju posted:"Army of Ukraina killed mother". The war was started by armed bandits who arrived from Russia in late March. What do you think Russia (or any other country for that matter) would have done when armed thugs arrive from neighboring country and start cutting up your country? Yes, Ukrainian conduct of war is deplorable but they are not the only ones using GRADs. utjkju posted:And why army of Ukraine kill refugees? I have not heard about Ukrainians killing refugees but in this conflict it is possible. But your beloved boyeviks have done their fair share of atrocities. Mass graves of executed people have been discovered. One of the separatist leader himself told journalists that they dont take Ukrainian volunteer soldiers prisoners but execute them on the spot. So noone, unfortunately, has clean hands in this conflict.
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Jul 31, 2014 10:30
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kapsas posted:The war was started by armed bandits who arrived from Russia in late March. This is falsehood. kapsas posted:I have not heard about Ukrainians killing refugees but in this conflict it is possible. But your beloved boyeviks have done their fair share of atrocities. Mass graves of executed people have been discovered. One of the separatist leader himself told journalists that they dont take Ukrainian volunteer soldiers prisoners but execute them on the spot. So noone, unfortunately, has clean hands in this conflict. Army of Ukraina kill refugees and civilians. Boyeviks kill soldiers. Can you not understand differential?
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Jul 31, 2014 10:54
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utjkju posted:This is falsehood. And here lies the problem because it is not a falsehood. All the leadership and most of the fighters in Donbass are from Russia. They started to arrive in March and started the conflict by seizing local government buildings by force. Ukraine reacted, as in every government would have, by deploying their armed forces to stop this. And this is how the war started. If Kreml wanted to stop this war, all it had to do at that point, was to close the border. But they chose the opposite, border was left open and not only that, they supplied the boyeviks with old Soviet era weaponry. utjkju posted:Army of Ukraina kill refugees and civilians. Boyeviks kill soldiers. Can you not understand differential? First of all, not taking prisoners is a warcrime. Secondly, boyeviks kill civilians also, although most of the civilian casualties come from incompetence and the fact that most fighting happens in towns and villages and not because someone is delibaretly killing off civilians.
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Jul 31, 2014 11:21
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What do you think about this? (this is Poland) "Rząd pozna moje sankcje już wkrótce, przy urnie podczas najbliższych wyborów. Podziękuję mu za wspieranie banderowców, za szczucie przeciwko sąsiadom i działanie na szkodę polskich interesów zarówno gospodarczych jak i politycznych." "Teraz niech Ameryka od nas odkupi to co nie chce Rosja jak nas wciągnęli w tę grę. My jak zwykle najwiecej na tym stracimy. Węgry siedzą cicho żeby tylko ich interesy szły dobrze, Niemcy też dbają o swój interes tylko my tacy ambitni, że mamy prawo i nas na to stać żeby się rzucać" "Zaraz, zaraz. Podobno koszty sankcji miały być równomierne dla wszystkich krajów UE..." http://www.rmf24.pl/raport-ukraina/fakty/news-rosja-naklada-embargo-na-polskie-warzywa-i-owoce,nId,1477035#commentsZoneList
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Jul 31, 2014 11:46
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kapsas posted:And here lies the problem because it is not a falsehood. This is falshood.) You from West Ukraina or you from USA?
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Jul 31, 2014 11:49
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I really don't understand why you're getting upset at us for stating empirical evidence. I love Russian culture, I'm re reading The Brothers Karamazov right now, I have nothing to gain from making Russia look bad. I know it is difficult to look at your country objectively, but that's what real patriots do.
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Jul 31, 2014 12:44
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Ferdinand the Bull posted:I really don't understand why you're getting upset at us for stating empirical evidence. I think, that you don't know very good Russian culture. How you can love Russian culture, if you don't know it? You don't answer about CNN. Why?
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Jul 31, 2014 13:19
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utjkju posted:I think, that you don't know very good Russian culture. How you can love Russian culture, if you don't know it? I don't answer about CNN because I don't care about CNN. Most everyone knows that they're a bunch of sensationalist crap slingers that report topics and not facts. Listen don't turn this into a personal attack. I know a bit about Russia and the Ukraine. Lots of my family originate from that area. I'm a Slavic Jew so I don't know if most Russians would agree that I'm myself ethnically Russian. But it doesn't matter. I know I like Russia. That's all I'll say about that.
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Jul 31, 2014 13:29
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Ferdinand the Bull posted:I don't answer about CNN because I don't care about CNN. Most everyone knows that they're a bunch of sensationalist crap slingers that report topics and not facts. Если правда то, что вы написали, то вы должны понимать, что люди из РФ и Восточной Украины никогда не признают нацистов. Нам хватило Второй мировой. Никто и никогда не будет восхвалять Гитлера и Бандеру, как это делают власти Украины (случай на День победы) и люди с Западной Украины.Это война против фашизма.Это даже поляки и чехи понимают. Но этого не понимает англоязычное сообщество. Если вы еврей, то вы забыли про холокост? Как вы можете поддерживать фашистов?
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Jul 31, 2014 13:57
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kapsas posted:And here lies the problem because it is not a falsehood. All the leadership and most of the fighters in Donbass are from Russia. They started to arrive in March and started the conflict by seizing local government buildings by force. Ukraine reacted, as in every government would have, by deploying their armed forces to stop this. And this is how the war started. And yet when the Maidan rioters seized government buildings, there was no war, and the president of the time was urged by the West to withdraw even riot police from the streets. kapsas posted:But they chose the opposite, border was left open and not only that, they supplied the boyeviks with old Soviet era weaponry. You do know that the Ukraine was a part of the USSR too, right? Warehouses of old military crap that no one was guarding too seriously were seized. If you look at what the rebels are using, it's museum grade stuff. quote:First of all, not taking prisoners is a warcrime. Secondly, boyeviks kill civilians also, although most of the civilian casualties come from incompetence and the fact that most fighting happens in towns and villages and not because someone is delibaretly killing off civilians. Pro-Kiev forces have repeatedly shelled areas known to be unoccupied by the rebels. Keep in mind that various government representatives repeatedly stated that the East isn't filled with people to them. The most popular term with the people of the West used to describe those loyal to the east is "Kolorad" (potato bug). Also both sides are taking prisoners, and there has been at least one exchange that I know about.
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Jul 31, 2014 14:09
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utjkju posted:Ukraine=nazi I am afraid you are the perfect example of successful brainwashing. This maidan=nazies is just flatout lie. Here take a look at this video, recorded early march. Is this russian speaking doctor also a nazi? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNDJb2_4nu0 quote:The most popular term with the people of the West used to describe those loyal to the east is "Kolorad" (potato bug). And? Take a look at RuNet right now. The amount of hatred of everything Ukrainian is quite astounding. Although this isnt a new development to be honest. Most russians dont consider ukrainians to be a nationality at all. But some weirdoes who speak broken russian. Also the most damning evidence for fascism in Ukraine is the supposed ukrainization (I am sure I misspelled this) which is hilarious considering the amount of ethnicities that have been russified in RF. kapsas fucked around with this message at 14:21 on Jul 31, 2014 |
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Jul 31, 2014 14:12
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kapsas posted:I am afraid you are the perfect example of successful brainwashing. This maidan=nazies is just flatout lie. Here take a look at this video, recorded early march. Is this russian speaking doctor also a nazi? Запись была 3 марта. А 9 мая была запись Дня победы, которое я здесь выкладывала. Я думаю, ты меня понимаешь хорошо. Если доктор восхвалял Гитлера на 9 мая, то он нацист. Если нет, то - нет.
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Jul 31, 2014 14:22
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utjkju posted:Nazis and stuff Nazi or Fascist? This accusation of the government in Kiev being Nazis confuses me, because I'm pretty sure the Nazis hosed over (and hated) the Ukrainians as much as the Russians. If you're saying that I as a Jew should be wary of the Nazis, then shouldn't I as a Jew be wary of the Soviets? History under both governments was pretty messed up for the Jews. Did you hear about the Jews in a rebel-held city being told to register themselves? http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/18/world/europe/efforts-to-register-jews-in-ukraine-are-denounced-and-denied.html It could very well be a hoax, but the mere fact that this exists, hoax or not, makes me very anxious. To me, there's this sense that Jews in Ukraine are being used as pawns for political gain. Maidan are called Nazis by the rebels, rebels are trying to round up the Jews according to Maidan. WTF Of course I haven't forgotten about the Holocaust. I haven't forgotten about the pogroms either. I don't see why my ethnicity should have anything to do with this.
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Jul 31, 2014 14:27
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kapsas posted:And? Take a look at RuNet right now. The amount of hatred of everything Ukrainian is quite astounding. Although this isnt a new development to be honest. Most russians dont consider ukrainians to be a nationality at all. But some weirdoes who speak broken russian. А зачем вы запрещаете книги на русском языке? Разве это не проявление нацизма? При чем в РФ очень много народностей сохраняют свой родной язык. (начиня с алтацев и т.д.)
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Jul 31, 2014 14:27
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utjkju posted:more Ukraine=nazi I seriously doubt that Ukraine is banning Russian language books given that over half the population of Ukraine is russophone. Also , I am not Ukrainian. This "conversation" isnt going anywhere. utjkju, you just ignore everything I say and keep posting stuff that in your mind justifies your hate of Ukraine.
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Jul 31, 2014 14:38
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I don't think the rebels are making many friends by shooting down commercial airplanes. Russia is being viewed quite poorly at the moment due to the lack of sympathy Putin showed Australia, as well as the unanimous opinion that his government supplied the missiles that shot it down. If stuff like laying mines near the crash site is true than I could see our politicians doing more than just condemn Russia.
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Jul 31, 2014 14:39
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kapsas posted:And? Take a look at RuNet right now. The amount of hatred of everything Ukrainian is quite astounding. Although this isnt a new development to be honest. Most russians dont consider ukrainians to be a nationality at all. But some weirdoes who speak broken russian. I'm neck-deep in RuNet. I don't see hatred towards the Ukrainians. I see hatred towards Western pawns and corrupt oligarchs, but not the common people. The most damning evidence for fascism isn't the Ukrainization, it's the people waving nazi flags, displaying nazi symbols, and worshipping war criminals. Also UN Human Rights Commission discovered no evidence that Russia is sending weapons. kapsas posted:I seriously doubt that Ukraine is banning Russian language books given that over half the population of Ukraine is russophone. Also , I am not Ukrainian. Not Russian language books, books published in Russia. Lord Windy posted:I don't think the rebels are making many friends by shooting down commercial airplanes. Russia is being viewed quite poorly at the moment due to the lack of sympathy Putin showed Australia, as well as the unanimous opinion that his government supplied the missiles that shot it down. The rebels stole two Buks without a guidance computer and a C&C system. It's pretty difficult to shoot down anything with one of those. Also the pro-Kiev forces have just launched a massive offensive in the direction of the crash site with the aim of cutting the LNR and DNR apart. You expect the rebels to just sit there and let it happen? It's not like they're laying the mines in a circle around the crash site. Ensign Expendable fucked around with this message at 14:42 on Jul 31, 2014 |
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Jul 31, 2014 14:39
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Ensign Expendable posted:I'm neck-deep in RuNet. I don't see hatred towards the Ukrainians. I see hatred towards Western pawns and corrupt oligarchs, but not the common people. The most damning evidence for fascism isn't the Ukrainization, it's the people waving nazi flags, displaying nazi symbols, and worshipping war criminals. There's no doubt that there are Fascists fighting on the side of the Ukrainians. There's also no doubt that Russia has per capita the most Neo-Nazis in the world. The Fascists on both sides aren't going anywhere anytime soon. To me, the Ukrainians are trying to re-establish a national identity by actively separating themselves from Russian influence. This is nationalism. Nationalism is dumb. The Russians aren't doing themselves a favor by meddling in a neighboring nation's affairs. If there was a real threat, they should've let some bad stuff happen, then gone in. Going in preemptively removes all credibility from the Russians in the eyes of the watching world.
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Jul 31, 2014 14:47
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Ferdinand the Bull posted:Nazi or Fascist? This accusation of the government in Kiev being Nazis confuses me, because I'm pretty sure the Nazis hosed over (and hated) the Ukrainians as much as the Russians. По отношению к войне с Германией, мы применяем термин "фашисты". На Украине один в один копируют принципы именно фашисткой Германии. Даже свастика похожа, те же движения при принесения присяги, очень похожа идеология. Да и Гитлера восхваляют как героя. Про евреев в Донецке видела новость. Это было 15 апреля. Глава еврейской общины тогда правильно все рассудил. Да и это была довольно топорная провокация. При чем подобные провокации были и в Одессе. Это все было до 9 мая. 9 мая Западная Украина показала свое истинное лицо. Советов опасаются не только евреи, но и русские. Советский режим - это очень тяжелое время в истории нашей страны. Потому большинство людей в РФ не хотят возвращения советского режима. Хотя в стране еще остаются коммунисты, но их очень мало.
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Jul 31, 2014 14:48
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Ferdinand the Bull posted:There's no doubt that there are Fascists fighting on the side of the Ukrainians. There's also no doubt that Russia has per capita the most Neo-Nazis in the world. "Some bad stuff" is happening right now. Putin isn't doing anything, and a ton of people are pissed at him for that. What going in preemptively do you mean?
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Jul 31, 2014 14:53
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Ensign Expendable posted:The rebels stole two Buks without a guidance computer and a C&C system. It's pretty difficult to shoot down anything with one of those. Also the pro-Kiev forces have just launched a massive offensive in the direction of the crash site with the aim of cutting the LNR and DNR apart. You expect the rebels to just sit there and let it happen? It's not like they're laying the mines in a circle around the crash site. Are you saying the rebels didn't shoot it down, they got lucky shooting something in the sky or that they were trained in how to use them if they are difficult to use? Right or wrong, Russia is simply the 'bad guy' in Australian eyes now due to the handling at the beginning. Ukraine is as much to blame for the delays (the full scale offensive) for our investigators to collect the rest of the bodies and the investigate. Though we have gotten there in the end.
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Jul 31, 2014 15:06
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