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My advice with novel writing crits as you go is don't go crazy and hammer away at the same scene until you think you have it perfect, take the crit forward with you as you go, and come back to it also. Also something that came up in the crit for a short story in the writing group I thought might be good to discuss: how do people find coming back to stories they wrote a very long time ago? I've had this story that has gone through several rewrites, and I feel like since I first wrote the very different first draft I've changed a lot as a person as well as a writer. But it's hard to apply that to what I've already written, and even when I try to write around it its hard not to slip into what was before. Has anyone successfully managed to save something like that? e: I'm hoping the suggested tense change will free me from my shackles as I still kind of like the core story.
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Jul 31, 2014 00:13
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Well, this might be a weird way to do it since I'm writing in pairs (I write with my ex a lot; I'll do first draft and he'll do second, then we fiddle with the result), but try just retyping the whole thing out. Apparently he catches a ton of poo poo that way that no one does on the first read-through. With that much time since you did it, that might help?
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Jul 31, 2014 00:22
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PoshAlligator posted:
I usually force myself to start at a different spot, either earlier or later in the story. Later is probably better, since the conventional advice for fiction is that stories should start as close to the end as possible, but that's not always the case. I'm doing that right now with a Very Bad short story that I finished and then put away for a few months. I'd started the piece last year with this one very specific opening image in my head, and I kind of got stuck on it. I started writing at a different point in the story and it feels like working on a whole different piece, even though the characters, setting, and plot are more or less the same. But yeah, I think changing tense, POV, or the starting point of your story are all helpful things to do, even if you're only experimenting and don't intend to keep it that way.
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Jul 31, 2014 00:47
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systran posted:Do what muffin did and finish a draft, then post the first revision for the group.
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Jul 31, 2014 01:14
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SurreptitiousMuffin posted:Don't do this. People keep sending me private messages saying it's toooo loooooong and they don't want to look at it. I think Echo has been the only one to tackle the huge unforgiving mountain that is 1/6 of a regular novel. um I seem to remember a group of sexy, talented and good looking people spending like 2 hours critting your piece via Skype. I'll probably post this on Writergoons too, but I think it would be better if people refrained from posting/PMing "it's toooo loooooooooong." Crit what you're comfortable critting or don't. I think it would be ok to critique only a portion of a piece, and maybe explain why you didn't feel compelled to read/crit further. I also think that longer pieces can stand much more general critique. But hey, I'm just glad we have a lot of active writing happening!
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Jul 31, 2014 01:44
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neongrey posted:Well, this might be a weird way to do it since I'm writing in pairs (I write with my ex a lot; I'll do first draft and he'll do second, then we fiddle with the result), but try just retyping the whole thing out. Apparently he catches a ton of poo poo that way that no one does on the first read-through. With that much time since you did it, that might help? I forgot to mention with the writing long-hand thing, that when I type it up I end up doing some revising as I go. Which removes many of the most egregious mistakes and adverb use. I've posted some of the rough drafts I've typed directly and one of the comments every time is "holy poo poo adverbs." So yeah, rewriting/retyping helps me a lot.
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Jul 31, 2014 05:10
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I'm going to read your thing, Muffin, but probably not until next week or this weekend
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Jul 31, 2014 12:24
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I don't care about length as long as it's something I'm interested in. If anyone needs a beta reader, I'm around.
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Jul 31, 2014 16:47
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I'm taking a serious stab at writing a short story for pretty much the first time and I'm trying to establish a specific tone for it, and also find out if what I've written is any good so far. It's only about two pages long so far, so it shouldn't take more than five minutes to read through. Here's the Google Docs link. Is the narrator relatable? Do all the different "speakers" have distinct enough voices? Is there anything particularly stupid that I've done? ...is this the right thread to ask about it? I don't think I've ever posted in CC before. (READ BELOW AFTER READING) I'm trying to get a vide going that's sort of like "The Truth" by Avi, mixed with some traits from John Hodgman's occasional forays into "normal" fiction. I have an idea of where the story is going, but obviously all the details are very much up in the air.
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Jul 31, 2014 18:52
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DoctorWhat posted:...is this the right thread to ask about it? I don't think I've ever posted in CC before. The better place to send it to would be the Fiction Farm. I put the crit there for you.
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Jul 31, 2014 20:40
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Dr. Kloctopussy posted:
Coming back to this, music is what motivated me to take the leap and start writing for the first time this week. I've never written anything before, but have had a growing interest in doing so over the past 6 months. I've been brainstorming and jotting ideas down in a notebook, yet too intimidated to actually begin writing anything out. Movie soundtracks and instrumental music have been very inspirational and finally moved me to write my first scene the other night. A song I came across hit like a bomb and caused an entire scene to play out in my head like a movie. Albeit that it is smack dab in the middle of my novel idea, I wrote it out. It reads like crap with terrible grammar, but it's there and will be improved and built upon over time. My first baby steps into a fiction novel! Any fiction writers looking for inspiration, I highly recommend browsing Youtube for tracks by Two Steps from Hell. Basically epic instrumental music used in movie soundtracks, but very powerful motivators for the imagination!
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Aug 1, 2014 17:13
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Two Steps From Hell and many groups like it (Audiomachine, Future World Music, Immediate Music, etc) are the backbone of my writing music so you're not alone.
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Aug 1, 2014 17:16
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Whalley posted:If you're like me and have the worst handwriting in the world (and muscular issues with holding a pen for extended periods) maybe try getting an Alphasmart Neo at some point. It's not as tactile and cognitively involved as writing with a pen for sure; I'd never try and argue that point. It has made me double, or even triple, my wordcount-per-day though, and you can pick one of the things up on eBay for like $35. It's fuckin' indestructible too, and has one of the nicest keyboards I've ever typed on. I'm a little hesitant about those things because they look so low tech... The nagging voice in my head screams, "What if I decide to backtrack to edit something? Only 8 files? What if it doesn't back up properly? How difficult is it to get files from it to the computer?" I imagine it is just my inner demons and that it handles most of this pretty well because they seem to come highly recommended. You said the keyboard is nice, is it a mechanical keyboard?
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Aug 1, 2014 22:47
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Zip posted:I'm a little hesitant about those things because they look so low tech... The nagging voice in my head screams, "What if I decide to backtrack to edit something? Only 8 files? What if it doesn't back up properly? How difficult is it to get files from it to the computer?" I imagine it is just my inner demons and that it handles most of this pretty well because they seem to come highly recommended. I don't know where you're at financially, because there have been times in my life where $35 has been a huge amount. But if you are in a place where it's not that much, you may as well give it a try. Anxiety about a solution being perfect before I try it is one of my main hang ups. I can spend hours considering the potential weaknesses of any potential approach instead of just trying it to see if it works. Needing to rewrite a bit is not the worst thing. As discussed above, many people find value in that process regardless of whether or not it is forced. Similarly, the inability to go back and edit can be freeing. I have even heard of people turning off their monitor to shut down their internal editor. There are many approaches that might work for you. It is only beneficial to try them all, rather than attempting to evaluate them in theory. As usual, my advice in this thread is also advice to myself.
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Aug 2, 2014 06:46
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Dr. Kloctopussy posted:
Uh, yeah, because it's a mandatory thing. If you're not rewriting some, you're being lazy. Dr. Kloctopussy posted:. Anxiety about a solution being perfect before I try it is one of my main hang ups. I can spend hours considering the potential weaknesses of any potential approach instead of just trying it to see if it works Seriously. I wanted to try using a pen and I had to spend so much time reading on the internet whether a pen or a pencil is better. I'm a huge nerd. Dr. Kloctopussy posted:
This is a very helpful aspect of handwriting. It's a lot more trouble to edit on paper than to just backspace. blue squares fucked around with this message at 07:07 on Aug 2, 2014 |
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Aug 2, 2014 07:04
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I had trouble in the past looking for an Alphasmart Neo in the UK. Sometimes I write on my Nexus 7, snyching with my PC via Dropbox. It's functional, but not as easy to edit on the fly, so it can help shut down that inner editor of it's getting to be stifling.
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Aug 2, 2014 12:09
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Zip posted:I'm a little hesitant about those things because they look so low tech... The nagging voice in my head screams, "What if I decide to backtrack to edit something? Only 8 files? What if it doesn't back up properly? How difficult is it to get files from it to the computer?" I imagine it is just my inner demons and that it handles most of this pretty well because they seem to come highly recommended. And only eight files of, roughly, twenty pages long each, is plenty enough. It isn't a device to store an entire novel, more something to write your drafts in. It connects to a computer via a USB printer cable and saves everything in keystrokes; you plug it in, open up a word processor, select the file and press "send" - it then "types" out everything at a fast pace on screen. I read fast; it goes at pretty much my reading pace, so I like to sit there with a notepad and read as it gets transferred to the computer and take notes of obvious changes I want to make. Also, ctrl + arrow keys lets you jump up and down your files quick, so you can backtrack kind of easily... but why backtrack before it's time to edit? It's not perfect (a slightly more angled form factor and a larger, backlit e-ink screen like a Kindle Paperwhite would make it perfect for me) but it's pretty rad. It's a portable draft machine if you don't want a pen, and nothing more.
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Aug 4, 2014 14:28
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Well I'm sold. I ordered one. Thanks guys and gals.
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Aug 6, 2014 05:31
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It's an unpaid magazine but somewhere wants to publish my story about a cactus I did for the unusual deaths Thunderdome (after editing it of course), which is kind of nice. It's probably my only decent TD entry. I'd recently had it published in an anthology for my university too, so I don't mind I'm not being paid for a reprint like this. Just a "keep on going" post, and remember to check out the Thunderdome if you haven't already. Even when I do badly I get to try out some really great prompts. Also is the Writer Goons writing group dead now?
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Aug 8, 2014 00:23
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PoshAlligator posted:
I had a full-day job interview out of state and just got home, so I basically decided I wouldn't be able to participate at all this week. The way we have set up the format should mean people are going to be posting in waves. Muffin didn't seem to read the instructions but he posted a huge chunk of a chapter that people should feel free to read and crit...it should make up for how few people submitted this week.
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Aug 8, 2014 00:40
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PoshAlligator posted:Also is the Writer Goons writing group dead now? I'm unable to crit because my phone line has been torched for a week. I will try to get some writing done but there are no guarantees.
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Aug 8, 2014 02:34
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PoshAlligator posted:
I am SUPER busy, like, so busy that even taking the time to post there is more work than I can conceive of doing, to say nothing of reading and critting. So I apologize for the lack of organization. I am taking a week off work starting next Wednesday, so while people are more than welcome to post this week, I will probably be somewhat MIA until next week. I can, of course, always give admin powers to Echo Cian, Dr K., or anyone else who is interested/has enough free time. Alternatively, I'm wondering if the goal of weekly writing is too much. There was kind of a big initial rush of stories, which was cool, but I doubt if any of us are rewriting/revising/writing original pieces every week. I'm sort of wondering if a bi-weekly or even monthly schedule would work better? I've also been thinking, due to the success of Thunderdome, if a contest format would also be cool. Sort of like the monthly fiction contests we used to have around here. Usually the top three stories got in depth critique.....pretty good incentive if you're trying to get published. This whole group is still kind of a work in progress, and I'm way busier this summer than ever, so people's continuing input would be appreciated.
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Aug 8, 2014 03:39
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Sitting Here posted:I am SUPER busy, like, so busy that even taking the time to post there is more work than I can conceive of doing, to say nothing of reading and critting. So I apologize for the lack of organization. I am taking a week off work starting next Wednesday, so while people are more than welcome to post this week, I will probably be somewhat MIA until next week. I like the activity that a weekly schedule prescribes, even when it doesn't actually happen. For my novel (speaking for myself here) I don't think I need an in-depth, line-by-line, because it's still pretty first draft-y even if I have revised the chapters at least once. Something like Muffin's, which is polished enough, would benefit, though.
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Aug 8, 2014 03:58
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Yeah, I got nothing for last week, probably not this week either, but I should for next, so yeah. I'm trying to avoid being in the process of redrafting as the crits are coming in like happened with the last one. But that requires some coordination so it takes a little bit more time on my end than I might like.
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Aug 8, 2014 19:18
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And I'm handwriting my novel, otherwise I'd probably keep posting snippets. But I don't want to take the time to transcribe every chapter when it's still a first draft and so much it will be cut or changed.
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Aug 8, 2014 20:00
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Thank you ravenkult for breaking our cover curse and actually designing us a real decent looking book cover. It looks great! 
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Aug 10, 2014 18:02
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Zip posted:Thank you ravenkult for breaking our cover curse and actually designing us a real decent looking book cover. It looks great!  eyyyyyy
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Aug 10, 2014 19:40
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ravenkult posted:I don't care about length as long as it's something I'm interested in. If anyone needs a beta reader, I'm around.
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Aug 11, 2014 12:40
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Bobby Deluxe posted:Are you charging, because I published a 'romance' piece a few weeks ago and it ain't selling poo poo. Naw, I ain't charging, but I don't read romance. edit: If it's not selling, I doubt it's the content of the book, probably cover/blurb combination. Drop by the Self Publish thread.
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Aug 11, 2014 12:59
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Got a formatting question for y'all: what's your stance on widows and orphans? And, to take it one step further, what's the typical industry stance when it comes to seeing them in manuscripts? I like to write without them because that way I don't feel like I have to produce more or less words to prevent a large blank space at the end of a page, but is it something agents and publishers like, dislike, or even care about?
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Aug 12, 2014 22:45
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Cpt. Mahatma Gandhi posted:Got a formatting question for y'all: what's your stance on widows and orphans? And, to take it one step further, what's the typical industry stance when it comes to seeing them in manuscripts? As far as I know and as far as I'm concerned (I run a small publishing business) I don't care. That stuff's for the finished product, not for manuscripts.
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Aug 12, 2014 22:50
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I don't think anybody in SF/F cares about them any more. Can't speak to other fields.
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Aug 12, 2014 22:50
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When sending work for friends or other people to read, how do you guys get over the fear of having it or your ideas stolen? I realise how silly it is to think that anyone is really going to see some amateur writer's 90,000 word former Final Fantasy fanfic as something that is in any way valuable. But even though words are cheap, you put so much time and effort into a project that putting it out there is kind of irrationally scary. Basically: please reassure me that I am being an idiot about this.
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Aug 13, 2014 18:04
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You're absolutely being an idiot about it. Ideas are the absolute cheapest thing around when it comes to anything creative (hence why the "ideas guy" is such a joke). There is no reason to steal ideas from anyone, let alone from you (generic).
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Aug 13, 2014 18:13
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Everything is a soup of stolen ideas from everything else.
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Aug 13, 2014 21:32
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You can come up with six ideas that good any hour of the week. Also, if your friends and acquaintances are writing semi-seriously themselves, so can they.
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Aug 13, 2014 23:42
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Good writing isn't just ideas, it's the effort and time spent taking those ideas, refining them, working over your words, and so on. Everyone identifies with their work via the ideas--I can think back to 'bitcoin dystopia' or 'Top Gun griffins' but what makes or breaks the story isn't the quality of the idea, it's the work you put into it. We get protective of ideas sometimes, but the way you're feeling is like being afraid someone might steal your kid's name for their own. First, no one is going to do that, and second, if they do, who cares? It's not going to affect the quality of what you've written.
Djeser fucked around with this message at 03:43 on Aug 14, 2014 |
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Aug 14, 2014 00:10
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qntm posted:You can come up with six ideas that good any hour of the week. You really can: 1) A girl's whole world consists of a single giant tree and the city that lives in it's branches. Fed up with her lot in life she decides to leave home and begin the hundred mile climb to the world below. 2) A boy is trapped as his brother's shadow by an evil sorcerer. They must now work together using the boy's new but limited powers over light and darkness to defeat the wizard and free themselves of one another. 3) A freak accident sends a man a thousand years into the future. In order to make ends meet he takes a job at a 20th century themed amusement park. 4) A woman finds that the fortune cookies she get's are strangely specific and frighteningly accurate. She decides to use this strange phenomenon to cheat at the stock market. 5) After a sixty-year long journey across time and space to save the world a man returns to his old life exactly where he left it... in middle school. 6) Fed up with the world a young woman with a gift for science decides to start building a doomsday device as a hobby in her spare time. Total time needed: 40 min. Pity my ability to actually execute a story is still pretty terrible. Oh well... readingatwork fucked around with this message at 03:06 on Aug 14, 2014 |
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Aug 14, 2014 03:03
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Total change of tack: what's a good way to break into the publishing industry? What sort of experience and qualifications do they look for?
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Aug 14, 2014 21:51
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SurreptitiousMuffin posted:Total change of tack: what's a good way to break into the publishing industry? What sort of experience and qualifications do they look for? I've had a few friends succeed at this. I wish I could give meaningful advice, but my big takeaway was 'pray you get really lucky'. There's a ton of competition for relatively few positions, and those positions don't offer much.
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Aug 14, 2014 22:01
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