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I do believe Argentina gets an event to democratize it at some point.
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Aug 1, 2014 06:46
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Patter Song posted:He can't do that, though, he's a republican dictatorship with no elections. The only way out is either revolution or some sort of bizarre shenanigans to turn on voting, at which point the game goes "you allow voting, ergo you're not a dictatorship." But no matter what, if he can get his dissent high enough, he'll be able to pass reforms, right? He would probably need to have 5 or 6 points of dissent, which is tricky, but at some point you should be able to enact some kind of voting reform, right? Which is one of the things that I absolutely love about Vicky btw - that you can liberalize by being repressive enough to drive up dissent and force the country to accept reforms. It's so... Vicky.
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Aug 1, 2014 06:49
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Patter Song posted:He can't do that, though, he's a republican dictatorship with no elections. The only way out is either revolution or some sort of bizarre shenanigans to turn on voting, at which point the game goes "you allow voting, ergo you're not a dictatorship." Also if you're playing with NNM or PDM, you'll get the Dictatorship Thaw events at some point. At least I think that's only a feature of those two mods, it may actually be in vanilla at this point. Argentina has an event around the 1850s I think for democratization, otherwise the rule of thumb for getting the type of government you want is: be as much of a dick as possible to those who support the government type you want. If you want a socialist democracy, crack down like crazy on socialists and the lower class until they revolt, then make sure your troops are in some far-off corner of your lands away from your capital, and allow the rebels to capture your capital.
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Aug 1, 2014 07:02
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Bob Ojeda posted:But no matter what, if he can get his dissent high enough, he'll be able to pass reforms, right? He would probably need to have 5 or 6 points of dissent, which is tricky, but at some point you should be able to enact some kind of voting reform, right? I thought reactionaries never voted for reforms, even in the face of increasing militancy.
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Aug 1, 2014 07:12
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Bob Ojeda posted:But no matter what, if he can get his dissent high enough, he'll be able to pass reforms, right? He would probably need to have 5 or 6 points of dissent, which is tricky, but at some point you should be able to enact some kind of voting reform, right? If you're a Ruling Party Only state with the Reactionaries as the only party, you're out of luck on that approach. Reactionaries in the Upper House will never ever vote to extend a reform.
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Aug 1, 2014 07:14
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Patter Song posted:If you're a Ruling Party Only state with the Reactionaries as the only party, you're out of luck on that approach. Reactionaries in the Upper House will never ever vote to extend a reform. Oh, I didn't even consider that the reactionaries were in power. Yeah, you'd be poo poo out of luck then.
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Aug 1, 2014 07:25
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gradenko_2000 posted:I do believe Argentina gets an event to democratize it at some point. IIRC, that event is in PDM/NNM//gsg/, which you should be playing with one of them anyway, and even if you don't, it still gets an event after 1844 that gives it angry liberals and anarco-liberals. Worst case; stick it out for socialists to start appearing and just piss them off by refusing to ever change social policy, and look at the events that you will be spamed and pick options that give you lots of angry socialists.
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Aug 1, 2014 07:34
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I got about 20 years in on the scenario with no events or other obvious paths to changing my government, so it looks like I'm stuck until I sit around for a revolution...which feels lame. Def going with a mod, or just changing the country file. Also, it seems I usually get a chance early on to go to war with Bolivia to grab some of their states. It seems to me a more valuable long-term plan though would be to try and take over Chile for the Pacific access and their mineral RGOs. Is there any way I can spin what seems to be a Chile/Brazil/Argentina feeding frenzy on Bolivia into a CB on Chile? And how likely is it I can expand that CB into state-taking? edit- I found the PDM wiki so nevermind that question. Looks like it's an event and I have to let a state secede and re-join. I think I'd rather just change the government type outright from the start, personally. Fidel Cuckstro fucked around with this message at 08:55 on Aug 1, 2014 |
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Aug 1, 2014 08:41
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Slime Bro Helpdesk posted:I got about 20 years in on the scenario with no events or other obvious paths to changing my government, so it looks like I'm stuck until I sit around for a revolution...which feels lame. Def going with a mod, or just changing the country file. CB's work a bit differently in V2 compared to EU4. You can Justify War against them (takes about a year, especially early in the game) and specify pretty much any CB you want on them if you don't have any natural CB's on them. One of the valid CB options should be something like Demand State or Conquest or something like that (not in front of my home PC at the moment, otherwise I'd look). Press button, swallow the inevitable infamy game when your efforts to fabricate a CB have been detected (don't go over 25 infamy!), and then you can declare war when it's done processing. You can see the progress of the claim in the Diplomacy window under the War Justification tab (again, may not be called exactly that, I'm drawing a total blank right now since I'm at work). Argentina is a stellar country to play as if you're able to democratize quickly though to get in on all that sweet European (and later Chinese) immigration. An anti-Chile strategy would work well, particularly if you ally with Brazil and/or Peru. All in all, South America is my favorite place to play Vicky, despite its strange shortage of coal and iron RGO's. Brazil is the premier "learn to play this game" country in V2, but Argentina is similar enough, if slightly more challenging. An even more challenging version would be Colombia -> Gran Colombia, though at least that nation has some decent coal/iron reserves. NNM (and PDM, but you shouldn't play with PDM) makes the game for South America even better, since you can form La Plata and get a really kickass flag. Drone fucked around with this message at 09:10 on Aug 1, 2014 |
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Aug 1, 2014 09:08
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One of the weird things about V2 is that depending on the Cassus Belli (um?) you pick, you can end up getting far more land for the same amount of infamy. Taking the last state in a country always gives you 22 infamy. If you take the second-to-last state, you only get 5. This is, of course, unless I've completely missed something.
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Aug 1, 2014 10:48
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Gort posted:One of the weird things about V2 is that depending on the Cassus Belli (um?) you pick, you can end up getting far more land for the same amount of infamy. Taking the last state in a country always gives you 22 infamy. If you take the second-to-last state, you only get 5. If your target is a civilized nation, you can only conquer land from them via the Acquire State or Conquest CBs. Acquire State is 11 infamy per state. Conquest is 22 infamy, and you only use it when your target civilized nation is down to just 1 state (containing its capital). If your target is an uncivilized nation, you can use the Demand Concession CB for 5 infamy per state, which will then be added to your country as a colony. Once you have an unciv down to 1 state, you can then use the Establish Protectorate CB to take the capital for 10 infamy. If you've already researched Nationalism and Imperialism, then you can use Establish Protectorate CB on an unciv with as many as 4 states to conquer the whole thing for 10 infamy. If you yourself are uncivilized, then you have no access to Demand Concession/Establish Protectorate and all your wars, even against fellow uncivs, have to use the more expensive Acquire State/Conquest CBs. http://www.victoria2wiki.com/Casus_belli
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Aug 1, 2014 10:56
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Aye, I guess what I was getting at is that I find it a bit weird that taking the last state of a country costs double the infamy as taking their second-to-last state.
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Aug 1, 2014 11:34
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ThatBasqueGuy posted:You heard wrong, I much prefer internal management. Paradox! We have 2 other games about that though. CK2 and Vicky 2. And EU: Rome as well i guess (with expansion more so)
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Aug 1, 2014 13:32
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podcat posted:We have 2 other games about that though. CK2 and Vicky 2. And EU: Rome as well i guess (with expansion more so)
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Aug 1, 2014 13:54
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Ok so swapped Argentina over to starting as a democracy, which is a bit more engaging, and discovered that I need to rely on capitalists to start all my factory/railroad projects. Fine and good, so I put my NF on capitalists and start grinding up a couple hundred of them. One thing or possible problem I notice though, it seems like Capitalists are almost always showing as having "no needs met" in the tax/budget screen. Like they'll list as +95% are having no needs met for a week or two, switch to 0 for a day or so, and then back to 95%. Are they just taking their weekly paycheck and chucking it into whatever project's at the top of the list? Is there a point where they hit a more steady state?
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Aug 1, 2014 15:39
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Capitalist take their income from the profit margins of local factories. If none exist, or none are successful, they earn nothing. They've carry over a bit of savings from whatever they were before converting, spend it, then go broke and hope that someone else comes along to finish the project before they have to hang up their tophat and go back to work. Any government with an economic policy that's at least interventionist can throw money at such projects to get them finished, and subsidize the resulting factories until they stabilize. After a certain critical mass of industry, your tycoons will have enough money coming in to fund new projects at a steady rate and some nice positive feedback will begin. People will say to avoid taxing them to try to squeeze the most out of this, but it doesn't matter. Most of your upper class is useless Aristocrats at the start of the game, and by the time capitalists take up a fair share they'll be successful enough to give no fucks about how much money you skim off them. All that estate tax can be redistributed to get their startups going sooner. A_Raving_Loon fucked around with this message at 15:48 on Aug 1, 2014 |
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Aug 1, 2014 15:46
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A_Raving_Loon posted:Capitalist take their income from the profit margins of local factories. If none exist, or none are successful, they earn nothing. Yeah I've been chucking money into railroads and factories as I can afford it. Anything I can do to help make sure their outputs have a decent market? I'm assuming I can't control demand, but can I subsidize the exports?
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Aug 1, 2014 15:50
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I wish V2 had more, specific targeted laws and policies -- sort of like ordinances in the Sim City games -- that you could take to help encourage this and that. I'd love to be able to enact and fiddle with estate taxes, wealth redistribution schemes, and so on.
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Aug 1, 2014 16:17
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DrSunshine posted:I wish V2 had more, specific targeted laws and policies -- sort of like ordinances in the Sim City games -- that you could take to help encourage this and that. I'd love to be able to enact and fiddle with estate taxes, wealth redistribution schemes, and so on. Can you imagine the politically-motivated "balance" complaints you'd see on the forums about that sort of stuff? 
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Aug 1, 2014 16:28
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Slime Bro Helpdesk posted:Ok so swapped Argentina over to starting as a democracy, which is a bit more engaging, and discovered that I need to rely on capitalists to start all my factory/railroad projects. Fine and good, so I put my NF on capitalists and start grinding up a couple hundred of them. One thing or possible problem I notice though, it seems like Capitalists are almost always showing as having "no needs met" in the tax/budget screen. Like they'll list as +95% are having no needs met for a week or two, switch to 0 for a day or so, and then back to 95%. I never use my NF's to encourage capitalists, especially as a developing country like Argentina. First priority should be encouraging bureaucrats in all your states enough to be able to get each state to 100% admin efficiency, then use your NF's to encourage clergymen until each state has 4% clergy (maximum research points at 2%, maximum literacy gain at 4%). After that, use your NF's for whatever you want. Eventually as your population gets more educated, they'll promote to clerks, who will automatically promote to capitalists when they're ready. And I think capitalists count in immigration too, so your economy/population SHOULD start developing itself when it's healthy to. If you get a party with State Capitalism in power though, feel free to build/subsidize whatever factories you want to kickstart your industrial base. If you encourage capitalists before you're ready (ie: before you have the techs to make/run factories profitably), they're just going to go broke and either demote themselves or join in with anarcho-liberal uprisings.
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Aug 1, 2014 16:43
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Maybe we should add a quickstart Victoria 2 guide to the OP or something: * Get Admin Efficiency to 100% via promoting Bureaucrats * Get 4% Clergymen in every state * Don't promote Capitalists until literacy hits the double digits, preferably 20-30% * Don't go Laissez Faire until your industry is already jumpstarted VostokProgram posted:Can you imagine the politically-motivated "balance" complaints you'd see on the forums about that sort of stuff? Yeah Democracy 3 is pretty rife with that stuff.
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Aug 1, 2014 16:53
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Slime Bro Helpdesk posted:Yeah I've been chucking money into railroads and factories as I can afford it. Anything I can do to help make sure their outputs have a decent market? I'm assuming I can't control demand, but can I subsidize the exports? The main thing you can do to improve demand is to keep tariffs as low as you can afford. When your own pops aren't paying double-price for anything they need to import, they can buy more units of more kinds of stuff. Otherwise, industry planning is a matter of spotting what's doing well, burning down what isn't, and collecting economic and industrial techs that help grow that zone of feasibility.
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Aug 1, 2014 17:05
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Drone posted:I never use my NF's to encourage capitalists, especially as a developing country like Argentina. First priority should be encouraging bureaucrats in all your states enough to be able to get each state to 100% admin efficiency, then use your NF's to encourage clergymen until each state has 4% clergy (maximum research points at 2%, maximum literacy gain at 4%). After that, use your NF's for whatever you want. This is helpful, thanks! 1) Where would you put promoting immigration on NF? Especially with Argentina's low pop already...would you make it 3rd or push it behind something else? 2) When gradenko says "get your industry jumpstarted" I'm assuming both having the tech in place and some cash on hand to help pay for factories? 3) Since I still don't seem to be very good at manipulating national politics, it seems like I'm stuck with a conservative party until at least 1860 or more. Is there any reason to try and pull back into a reactionary state-capitalism stance? Or is that just going to make it even slower for me to eventually get to LF? unrelated: 4) Any ideas on how to get Chile/Brazil to not be in a military alliance? While I can put together enough troops to do what I want with Chile, It's pretty tough to make a go on them and also keep the eventual support from Brazil from stomping all over my northern states. edit- my most recent try was going pretty great until the fabric factory my young capitalists built started running in the red for some reason, and drained a lot of my funds in subsidies. Fidel Cuckstro fucked around with this message at 18:20 on Aug 1, 2014 |
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Aug 1, 2014 18:17
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Slime Bro Helpdesk posted:This is helpful, thanks! Unfortunately in vanilla V2, I'm like 90% sure that the Immigration NF only applies to migration within the country (so if you're playing as the US, you can drop an immigration NF in the states out west to simulate homesteading, etc.) I know PDM makes it global, and I thiiink NNM does too? Slime Bro Helpdesk posted:2) When gradenko says "get your industry jumpstarted" I'm assuming both having the tech in place and some cash on hand to help pay for factories? You need 3 things for industry to thrive: decent literacy, good industrial techs (look for the ones that give bonuses to Industrial Throughput), and a population of craftsmen/clerks to sustain it. Cash on hand to pay for factories is nice when you have State Capitalism (which means you can manually build factories) or Interventionism (which means you can subsidize factories that are unprofitable and open closed ones, convenient for keeping some protectionism barriers around your country to keep your craftsmen in business). Slime Bro Helpdesk posted:3) Since I still don't seem to be very good at manipulating national politics, it seems like I'm stuck with a conservative party until at least 1860 or more. Is there any reason to try and pull back into a reactionary state-capitalism stance? Or is that just going to make it even slower for me to eventually get to LF? I'm actually not 100% sure, but in Ricky I remember if the reactionaries take power in an election, the political system changes to Presidential Dictatorship. I don't thiiink this happens in V2 (since I'm pretty sure I've seen democratically-elected fascists before), but it's possible. Someone will have to correct me on that. But yeah, political changes to your country happen slowly. Each election (and randomly during other times) you'll get events that pop up asking you to take sides. These slowly nudge you in the direction you want to go. You can also use your NF's to encourage loyalty to a particular political ideology, this takes about 10 years to really start bearing fruit.
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Aug 1, 2014 18:24
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EU4 question: What's driving up liberty desire in my colonial nations? I've been keeping them all at ~45% for maximum profit and it was fine until now (guess a patch hit). Now, one of them keeps increasing liberty desire faster than I can take down tariffs to compensate. They certainly aren't strong enough to win an independence war and I'm not seeing any events, so I don't understand it. On a side note, the AI for colonial nations is really terrible. They don't seem to do anything about rebels beyond putting an army in their capital set to rebel hunting, which lets their provinces on islands and other colonies revolt freely. Wouldn't be so bad if I at least got an alert about it or my own troops could hunt them down automatically... Apoffys fucked around with this message at 21:29 on Aug 1, 2014 |
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Aug 1, 2014 21:19
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On the other hand, my Russian Canada (Arkadiya) went on a conquest rampage on my behalf and pushed Great Britain out of the Americas, so they are useful for something.
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Aug 1, 2014 21:28
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Juvenalian.Satyr posted:On the other hand, my Russian Canada (Arkadiya) went on a conquest rampage on my behalf and pushed Great Britain out of the Americas, so they are useful for something. If there's a way to release Alaska in V2 I'm down. So I did another go through with the tips above- things seemed to generally go pretty smooth. Once I got to my first factory I started NF'ing on craftsmen to support them and that seemed to help keep them profitable. One thing that I still suspect I'm doing wrong- even at almost 1870 I haven't seen my # of regiments I can support increase since the start, at ~9. This seems off as my population was growing steadily and I hadn't reduced my military spending to a level where I'd expect people to take other jobs. Is there another factor that plays into that value?
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Aug 1, 2014 22:15
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Doesn't military spending directly affect the number of soldiers, so you should keep it as high as possible?
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Aug 1, 2014 22:38
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Not necessarily 'as high as possible', since V2 is one of those games you can play pretty peacefully, and getting too many people in the army can gently caress up your economy if you're small enough. Still,the slider should always be well above the midway point, otherwise no-one will become soldiers or officers. 50% military funding is the point of stagnation. Further, Soldier focus in a state or two is very helpful, as you need soldiers together in one place to create a regiment - small soldier POPs evenly distributed across the country do nothing but act as reserves. It's one of the more tedious aspects of V2, sadly.
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Aug 1, 2014 22:58
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Zeron posted:Go to Victoria 2\Poptypes, open soldiers.txt and add state_capital_only = yes under strata = poor. It's already used by bureaucrats, aristocrats, and capitalists so it's not exactly revolutionary. Be warned that it will heavily disrupt the first year or so of the game due to the fact that the existing OOBs won't take this into account. From a few pages back. I haven't tried it, but it sounds like it would be a good idea to concentrate your soldiers like that.
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Aug 1, 2014 23:13
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podcat posted:We have 2 other games about that though. CK2 and Vicky 2. And EU: Rome as well i guess (with expansion more so) Farecoal posted:This would be okay if the game wasn't boring as poo poo outside of war Plus it's more or less beneficial to have too much on your plate during a war in CK2/V2 because domestic priorities should suffer when warring. It's realistic and makes you weigh going to war (on top of providing an engaging alternative). EU has pretty much gone from my favorite to least favorite (okay, HoI is still least, but HoI4 is looking likely to change that) over the round of updates that brought playability improvements to the rest. I feel HoI is the only mega-campaign title that shouldn't have ample domestic management because it is the war title and doesn't leave you twiddling your thumbs waiting for truces to expire with nothing to do like EU. On a somewhat related note (also from pages ago): it boggles my mind that people try to mod HoI to post-WWII instead of V2, which is the naturally most analogous to modern times. It seems like updating the tech trees (changing Industrialization to Modernization), adding more economic/geopolitical actions that could levee conflict without hot war, and modest other adjustments would go very far towards modelling the Cold War through today far better than anything HoI could do. Slime Bro Helpdesk posted:One thing that I still suspect I'm doing wrong- even at almost 1870 I haven't seen my # of regiments I can support increase since the start, at ~9. This seems off as my population was growing steadily and I hadn't reduced my military spending to a level where I'd expect people to take other jobs. Is there another factor that plays into that value?
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Aug 2, 2014 00:41
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Sorry for (at least) one more question: crisis/flashpoints. I started a new game with Sweden and am finding it also a pretty nice country to start with- both in that you have a small but functioning economy ready to industrialize, and you have some obvious goals available in forming Scandinavia and also retaking Finland. On the Finland front, though, I am a bit confused- I managed to become a Great Power, but there doesn't seem to be any way to activate the crisis over Finland (which from what I've read is the political method that doesn't risk me getting pounded by the Russian Army). It would seem I'd use an NF to do it, but when I select Finland I'm told something along the line of "you can't NF this until it's a flashpoint..." So how do I make that happen? Or is that an event I have to hope triggers? edit- ok just read more on them and I had to do this before I became a great power. Welp...not sure if I want to fight a war with them. Fidel Cuckstro fucked around with this message at 07:09 on Aug 2, 2014 |
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Aug 2, 2014 06:08
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bUm posted:From my experience, Soldier pops don't grow too much naturally even when fully funded, especially if POPs are happily getting by as Farmers/Laborers/Craftsmen (if they aren't, then they'll probably convert over to Soldiers naturally). Using your NF to up the percentage in a few high-population states (preferably non-industrialized [don't compete with Craftsmen], accepted culture [better/more unit types]) is probably your best bet.
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Aug 2, 2014 08:24
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A Buttery Pastry posted:The real pros leave their defense to the non-accepted peoples within their borders, so as to inexorably shift the demographic balance of your territories in your favor with each war you fight. This is one of the most monstrous ways of thinking that you can practice in Paradox games and I totally do it all the time.
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Aug 2, 2014 09:55
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A Buttery Pastry posted:The real pros leave their defense to the non-accepted peoples within their borders, so as to inexorably shift the demographic balance of your territories in your favor with each war you fight. In Vicky 1 you could even completely eliminate a culture this way. I recall someone on the Paradox forums did an AAR where they converted every Texan POP into soldiers, built an army using them, and sent them all off to die in some war in a high-attrition area.
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Aug 2, 2014 09:58
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Pakled posted:In Vicky 1 you could even completely eliminate a culture this way. I recall someone on the Paradox forums did an AAR where they converted every Texan POP into soldiers, built an army using them, and sent them all off to die in some war in a high-attrition area.  Make sure Danimo never sees this for, his own sanity.
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Aug 2, 2014 10:28
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Ok so maybe I'm still not getting something about crisis/flashpoints. Re-started a new Sweden game and still can't use an NF to create a crisis over Finland. Not seeing any tooltips that suggest a condition isn't being met, either. 
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Aug 2, 2014 13:13
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Slime Bro Helpdesk posted:Ok so maybe I'm still not getting something about crisis/flashpoints. Re-started a new Sweden game and still can't use an NF to create a crisis over Finland. Not seeing any tooltips that suggest a condition isn't being met, either. I think Russia is immune since they are greater Great power.
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Aug 2, 2014 13:32
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Slime Bro Helpdesk posted:Ok so maybe I'm still not getting something about crisis/flashpoints. Re-started a new Sweden game and still can't use an NF to create a crisis over Finland. Not seeing any tooltips that suggest a condition isn't being met, either. Disco Infiva posted:I think Russia is immune since they are greater Great power. You can't start crises as a GP but you can definitely start them against a GP (Ottoman Macedonia, anyone?) You have to actually have a core, you likely only have Scandinavian cores in Finland. GrossMurpel fucked around with this message at 13:49 on Aug 2, 2014 |
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Aug 2, 2014 13:47
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The trick Victoria is missing is that because capturing provinces is such a slow process there's really no sense of pressure when it comes to crisis. And there's a time bar so you know when war were declared. And all of the game mechanics function separately. In my platonic ideal version of Vicky (turning it into a wargame because that's what I like) a crisis should throw the whole world into chaos - imagine playing as France and you get into a crisis against Germany and suddenly you realise that they're a tech ahead in railroads which means that you take 14 days to mobilise but they only take 7 poo poo poo poo poo poo that means they could be most of the way to Paris before you can form a line to stop them also your intelligence in Germany is undeveloped so you aren't sure if they are mobilising yet also anyone can decide to escalate a crisis to a war at any moment. Early on these factors don't matter so much, but as technology develops you move towards the point that Europe was in in 1914.
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Aug 2, 2014 13:59
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