|
What is the best version of El? This poll is closed. |
|||
|---|---|---|---|
| Elminster |
|
20 | 6.45% |
| Elmara |
|
20 | 6.45% |
| Entwine |
|
13 | 4.19% |
| GURPS |
|
99 | 31.94% |
| El Kabong |
|
153 | 49.35% |
| Elves |
|
5 | 1.61% |
| Total: | 310 votes | ||
|
LightWarden posted:So as it turns out, I've been confusing the Giff (D&D's race of gun-wielding, space-faring, militaristic humanoid hippos) No joke, I want a Wizardry 6-8 style RPG sometime. Space fantasy, who cares how little sense it makes to have a spaceport in an otherwise medieval village.
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2014 14:01
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 6, 2024 13:31 |
|
|
Phantasy Star is my favourite weirdo sf/f blend. Phantasy Star 1.
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2014 14:12
|
|
|
neongrey posted:Phantasy Star is my favourite weirdo sf/f blend. Phantasy Star 1. Phantasy Star > 1 not my Phantasy Star.
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2014 14:31
|
|
|
Arivia posted:Ed created huge parts of the game - maybe not that much rules-wise but he's contributed significantly to how we think about campaign settings, the Nine Hells, so forth and so on. He's a good designer who made a good thing with the Forgotten Realms, not just the guy who made Elminster. Greenwood and Salvatore pretty much created a majority of the tropes for D&D. People bitch about Salvatore making good drow but he pretty much fleshed out their society as a race. Gygax was also the first to present playing a good drow as well so as usual, grogs and people bitching about nothing don't know poo poo.
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2014 14:40
|
|
|
Zoq-Fot-Pik posted:Pathfinder seems good to me.
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2014 14:43
|
|
|
Rulebook Heavily posted:No joke, I want a Wizardry 6-8 style RPG sometime. Space fantasy, who cares how little sense it makes to have a spaceport in an otherwise medieval village.
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2014 15:03
|
|
|
 I shall not be sated until someone uses these images as character art.
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2014 15:20
|
|
|
Down with Elminster, all hail Elmallard
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2014 16:45
|
|
|
People still talking about that  wizard three decades since his inception: now that's caster dominance.I mean, think about it: Mordenkainen, Raistlin, E********: how many D&D settings have a feature character that isn't just a wizard? Planescape arguably had Duke Rowan Darkwood, who was a ranger, of all things, but it didn't really have a character the same way. I don't know about the other settings so well - who was big in Eberron? Dark Sun? Or did they not have such things?
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2014 17:09
|
|
|
Alien Rope Burn posted:People still talking about that Drizzt.
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2014 17:18
|
|
|
Eberron made a point of there not being big centerpiece showstealing NPCs. I think the highest level NPC was some kind of tree that was also a druid that nobody talked about? Not sure about Dark Sun. There were sorcerer kings but they were bad guys and kind of interchangeable, not really the same as El or Raist.
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2014 17:20
|
|
|
The 'iconic' group in Dark Sun was pretty varied and the dude it all focused around was just a mul gladiator dude that powered through poo poo because he was determined to, IIRC. So there's that, I guess.
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2014 17:23
|
|
|
Evil Mastermind posted:Nor all the books are up, it's most of the adventures and only one cosmbook. I guess the rest are coming next year. Not going to lie, the first thought I had when I read that was, "Oh good, Evil Mastermind will have more books to F&F  "And that's weird, the newsletter says they should all be up now. I guess check back in a few days?
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2014 17:26
|
|
|
I can't speak for Eberron but the top tier antagonists of Dark Sun are the Sorcerer Kings, ancient magic users who rule the last city-states of the dying, dessicated world. Each of them is at a different stage on a path of sorcerous self-transformation into a dragon, which are not naturally occurring in the setting. Only one has succeeded as per the setting's 'present,' he's called the Dragon of Tyr and all the lesser sorcerer kings are obliged to offer him thousands of slaves and chests of treasure each year as sacrifices. If the sacrifices lapse the Dragon takes the deficit out of the delinquent king's city-state in a good old-fashioned rampage.
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2014 17:26
|
|
|
Darwinism posted:The 'iconic' group in Dark Sun was pretty varied and the dude it all focused around was just a mul gladiator dude that powered through poo poo because he was determined to, IIRC. So there's that, I guess. Yeah, Rikus was pretty cool, but got a lot of help from sun wizard Sadira. Dark Sun was also pretty big on everyone gets murdered by the all powerful wizard/psionicist sorcerer kings in the end.
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2014 17:28
|
|
|
Alien Rope Burn posted:I mean, think about it: Mordenkainen, Raistlin, E********: how many D&D settings have a feature character that isn't just a wizard? Planescape arguably had Duke Rowan Darkwood, who was a ranger, of all things, but it didn't really have a character the same way. I don't know about the other settings so well - who was big in Eberron? Dark Sun? Or did they not have such things? One of my favorite things was in Ravenloft. So there are the Dark Lords who are all superpowerful evil guys who rule a domain, but have some curse that torments them forever and drives them mad. Like there's Strahd the Vampire who is doomed to accidentally kill his lost love over and over as she reincarnates, and there's Azalin the Lich who can never learn any new magic. And then there's this guy based on Vlad the Impaler who's got this little crappy realm stuck between the two of them and some other wizard, and his dark curse is literally "He's just a fighter and will never ever be able to match power of the wizards who live next door to him". Back in 2nd ed Caster Supremacy was so known about that being a fighter was literally considered an emotionally crippling curse on par with accidentally killing your true love over and over forever.
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2014 17:48
|
|
|
On the other hand, magic in Dark Sun is toxic and destroys the environment and everyone hates wizards. Eberron's most powerful dudes are dragons that have all shut themselves up on their own continent and hate being bothered. Besides that there's a giant tree that's a druid but still rooted to the ground, the previously mentioned half-dracon lich lady (Vol), some demons chained under the earth, some alien monster dudes that just like living under the earth, and an 11 year old girl who leads not-Catholics and can be treated as a level 13 (?) cleric when she's close to the Silver Flame. I guess there might be some strong giants on their continent, and a few of the good-lich Elves are probably strong as hell, too, but none of them are singled out in setting info.
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2014 17:50
|
|
|
Alien Rope Burn posted:People still talking about that The big names in Eberron are generally distant political figures working in the background. They may instigate things or set plots in motion, but they're rarely the sorts of people handing out quests or meeting you in single combat (I mean I guess they can be but if you kill Queen Aurala then you're going to have some repercussions to deal with), or even that the average person thinks a whole lot about on a day to day basis. Queen Aurala of Aundair, Kaius III of Karrnath, Jaela Daran who's the head of the Church of the Silver Flame, Vol, the Lord of Blades, etc.
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2014 17:50
|
|
|
Yeah, Eberron is great in part because it's so player-centric. They purposefully avoid super-powered NPCs like Elminster or Drizzt & Company so that there's more room for your party to become those kinds of names.
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2014 18:02
|
|
|
Kai Tave posted:The big names in Eberron are generally distant political figures working in the background. They may instigate things or set plots in motion, but they're rarely the sorts of people handing out quests or meeting you in single combat (I mean I guess they can be but if you kill Queen Aurala then you're going to have some repercussions to deal with), or even that the average person thinks a whole lot about on a day to day basis. Queen Aurala of Aundair, Kaius III of Karrnath, Jaela Daran who's the head of the Church of the Silver Flame, Vol, the Lord of Blades, etc. I think the only one of the current rulers that's higher level is Kaius III and that's partially because he's a vampire who has been around for a hundred years. The Lord of Blades could be a challenge for a high-level party, but it's as much because he lives in a nuclear wasteland as anything. Edit- Oh the Hag coven in Droaam is pretty strong as well, but they're meant to be a looming mystery on the edge of civilization that's amassing a giant nation of powerful monsters for unknown reasons. Nuns with Guns fucked around with this message at 18:11 on Aug 1, 2014 |
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2014 18:03
|
|
|
Yessod posted:Back in 2nd ed Caster Supremacy was so known about that being a fighter was literally considered an emotionally crippling curse on par with accidentally killing your true love over and over forever. If you've ever played a fighter in a party with wizards, it is emotionally crippling once you realize how powerless you are to fight monsters, dictate encounters, and participate in the narrative.
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2014 18:04
|
|
|
Kai Tave posted:The big names in Eberron are generally distant political figures working in the background. They may instigate things or set plots in motion, but they're rarely the sorts of people handing out quests or meeting you in single combat They're also not walking deus ex machinas - they're rulers. They don't and can't intervene to rob the PCs of their chance to meaningfully impact the setting because they are busy ruling their countries and have responsibilities they have to honour.
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2014 18:05
|
|
|
LuiCypher posted:If you've ever played a fighter in a party with wizards, it is emotionally crippling once you realize how powerless you are to fight monsters, dictate encounters, and participate in the narrative. The fighter is the class of the enlightened actually. The only way to fight monsters is to understand the limits of the mortal form in the face of unending horrors beyond your understanding. I mean, I guess you could cast fireball like a little bitch, but you'll never understand WHY.
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2014 18:08
|
|
|
Nuns with Guns posted:I think the only one of the current rulers that's higher level is Kaius III and that's partially because he's a vampire who has been around for a hundred years. The Lord of Blades could be a challenge for a high-level party, but it's as much because he lives in a nuclear wasteland as anything. In the 4E Eberron book Vol got statted up as an enemy and I think the Lord of Blades did too, since those are the two most clearly antagonistic of the world's big figures (Vol isn't evil so much as amoral but she still might try to do something that risks killing a bunch of people, while the Lord of Blades is a militant warforged supremacist raising an army and constructing a god).
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2014 18:08
|
|
|
Darwinism posted:Yeah, Eberron is great in part because it's so player-centric. They purposefully avoid super-powered NPCs like Elminster or Drizzt & Company so that there's more room for your party to become those kinds of names.
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2014 18:18
|
|
|
Yessod posted:One of my favorite things was in Ravenloft. So there are the Dark Lords who are all superpowerful evil guys who rule a domain, but have some curse that torments them forever and drives them mad. Like there's Strahd the Vampire who is doomed to accidentally kill his lost love over and over as she reincarnates, and there's Azalin the Lich who can never learn any new magic. And then there's this guy based on Vlad the Impaler who's got this little crappy realm stuck between the two of them and some other wizard, and his dark curse is literally "He's just a fighter and will never ever be able to match power of the wizards who live next door to him". Back in 2nd ed Caster Supremacy was so known about that being a fighter was literally considered an emotionally crippling curse on par with accidentally killing your true love over and over forever. This is about one quarter not bullshit. You're talking about Vlad Drakov of Falkovia. Dude was a ruthless all-conquering warlord from Taladas, so his curse is that he can never successfully invade a neighboring realm. And most of his neighboring Dark Lords are 0-level characters with one wierd power associated with their curse.
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2014 18:19
|
|
|
MadScientistWorking posted:Actually, I would argue that the way its written makes it pretty hard to change the status quo as the status quo is a nuclear bomb ready to go off the moment someone kicks the dam thing. It also doesn't help that you don't have any of the tools at all to enact meaningful change given that its a D&D setting. Nah, Eberron is purposefully written as a setting that has no ongoing metaplot (the most there's ever been was a 2 year jump between 3E and 4E) which means that it's basically up to GMs and groups how to proceed and change things up. The Eberron game I'm in is poised to make some significant status-quo changes provided we don't die along the way.
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2014 18:26
|
|
|
MadScientistWorking posted:Actually, I would argue that the way its written makes it pretty hard to change the status quo as the status quo is a nuclear bomb ready to go off the moment someone kicks the dam thing. It also doesn't help that you don't have any of the tools at all to enact meaningful change given that its a D&D setting. I dunno, a part of adventurers is going to hugely change the status quo just by existing once they get to a certain level. Sooner or later they'll give some faction a powerful artifact, or wipe out the Emerald Claw or other such secret society, or some other poo poo that completely destabilizes the status quo. Things in the default Eberron setting are at a really precarious balance, and any adventuring party that progresses on is gonna upset that balance hugely. edit: And this assumes the adventurers don't give a poo poo either way, even. If they've got an agenda, adventurers can really mess with stuff by propping up their regime of choice via their incredible (for the setting) level of power. Granted, D&D really isn't suited to political intrigue, but that's not the only thing that can change the world when you start getting people who can alter reality at a whim, even if they do mostly do it to be murderhobos rather than politicians. Darwinism fucked around with this message at 18:29 on Aug 1, 2014 |
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2014 18:27
|
|
|
neongrey posted:Phantasy Star is my favourite weirdo sf/f blend. Phantasy Star 1. Medieval dudes stumbling across a spaceport, discovering they're a lost colony, and suddenly having to fix the unexpected interaction of crazy magic demon poo poo and a climate control satellite or jump gate to save a huge space federation (or just their own solar system, if you're going for normal Phantasy Star) from getting its poo poo rocked by fantasy stuff while having to learn to use awesome sci-fi stuff and make robot buddies? Always a good idea. Or the reverse, where the sci-fi guys go down to some benighted lost colony and suddenly discover HOLY poo poo DEMONS and have to meld their existing badass sci-fi tech with magic and save the world and keep it from spreading. Really, it's all good. Sci-fantasy for life for crazy adventure games.
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2014 18:27
|
|
|
Spincut posted:Not going to lie, the first thought I had when I read that was, "Oh good, Evil Mastermind will have more books to F&F Believe me, I'd love to be wrong about this since I would love a new edition of Torg with non-90's mechanics. Also  that you think I'm going to get off my rear end and do more F&F stuff. You're not accounting for how lazy I am! (and how hard those are to write)
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2014 18:33
|
|
|
Evil Mastermind posted:Believe me, I'd love to be wrong about this since I would love a new edition of Torg with non-90's mechanics. Something sinister tells me that I don't think they're making a new edition, though that would be awesome. And yes, I was mostly joking about that. Mostly.
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2014 18:39
|
|
|
Night10194 posted:Or the reverse, where the sci-fi guys go down to some benighted lost colony and suddenly discover HOLY poo poo DEMONS and have to meld their existing badass sci-fi tech with magic and save the world and keep it from spreading. Really, it's all good. Sci-fantasy for life for crazy adventure games. There's an ancient Warhammer 40k novel called Pawns of Chaos similar to this. It's set on a world of primitive, demon-worshipping sorcerous societies cut off from the wider galaxy by recurring warp storms. Several generations back an interstellar convoy of the Imperium of Man strayed near while the warp storms abated, got caught and forced to crash-land. The descendants of those survivors struggle to keep their remaining high tech working as their society slowly degrades towards something like early 20th century Europe while fighting ceaseless wars with the technologically primitive but powerfully psychic indigenous empires. The book follows the final war between this Imperium-in-Exile and the native Chaos-worshippers, with the latter led by a warlock mutated into something not quite a daemon yet but not quite mortal any longer either. It's told primarily from the viewpoint of a peasant kid from the sorcerer's side whose village is on the contested frontier, and follows him from the war's outset through it's aftermath, and though it's been a while since I read it I highly recommend the novel if you can find it.
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2014 18:42
|
|
|
Captain Foo posted:(ALL HAIL KING TORG!!) (ALL HAIL KING TORG!!)
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2014 18:44
|
|
|
Down with Torg! Hail the 1st Kobold Commune and Congress! 
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2014 18:47
|
|
|
Davin Valkri posted:Down with Torg! Hail the 1st Kobold Commune and Congress! You are awarded 1 KHDC.
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2014 18:49
|
|
|
Darwinism posted:Things in the default Eberron setting are at a really precarious balance, and any adventuring party that progresses on is gonna upset that balance hugely. MadScientistWorking fucked around with this message at 18:53 on Aug 1, 2014 |
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2014 18:50
|
|
|
Night10194 posted:Medieval dudes stumbling across a spaceport, discovering they're a lost colony, and suddenly having to fix the unexpected interaction of crazy magic demon poo poo and a climate control satellite or jump gate to save a huge space federation (or just their own solar system, if you're going for normal Phantasy Star) from getting its poo poo rocked by fantasy stuff while having to learn to use awesome sci-fi stuff and make robot buddies? Always a good idea. Ah yes, the eternal dichotomy of Phantasy Star/Star Ocean.
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2014 18:57
|
|
|
Kai Tave posted:In the 4E Eberron book Vol got statted up as an enemy and I think the Lord of Blades did too, since those are the two most clearly antagonistic of the world's big figures (Vol isn't evil so much as amoral but she still might try to do something that risks killing a bunch of people, while the Lord of Blades is a militant warforged supremacist raising an army and constructing a god). Yeah they're clearly set up as end-game boss fights if they're used at all. They both live in incredibly isolated and dangerous areas that you have to go out of your way and put yourself through a lot of trials to get to. MadScientistWorking posted:Actually, I would argue that the way its written makes it pretty hard to change the status quo as the status quo is a nuclear bomb ready to go off the moment someone kicks the dam thing. It also doesn't help that you don't have any of the tools at all to enact meaningful change given that its a D&D setting. There's not really a nuclear bomb ready to go so much as a dozen lit sticks of dynamite. The players and DM can pick and choose which to put out, set off, or decide to lay some totally new sticks in place. Eberron is interesting because if you let the impact of your players affect the world between each game, every group's version of Eberron will start looking very different depending on what way the scales tip. Will they let Aurala's plans to start another war go through? Will they decide to embrace the Dreaming Dark and make everyone psychic slaves? Do they just want to gently caress off to the jungle and crawl through some giant ziggurats? Yeah, that's kind of what any good campaign setting should do, but Eberron was nice for delivering it all upfront and being clear about it.
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2014 19:01
|
|
|
Night10194 posted:Medieval dudes stumbling across a spaceport, discovering they're a lost colony, and suddenly ... HOLY poo poo DEMONS... Might and Magic / Wizardry / Phantasy Star are the most Mystaran of crpgs
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2014 19:02
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 6, 2024 13:31 |
|
|
Mr. Maltose posted:Ah yes, the eternal dichotomy of Phantasy Star/Star Ocean. I never played Star Ocean, but I got into Phantasy Star at that young age where it's like the first big RPG you ever really click with and as a result I'm infected with the sci-fantasy bug pretty much forever.
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2014 19:06
|
|