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I watched all of Lie to Me just to have more Tim Roth in my life.
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Aug 1, 2014 18:59
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Gatts posted:I thought he was great in his own Apes movie. He and Michael Clarke Duncan are the best parts of that movie.
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Aug 1, 2014 19:04
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Apparently Tim Roth is younger than my mom but he's looked kind of old forever.
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Aug 1, 2014 19:53
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I love Tim Roth so much, he was easily the best part of that movie. He's just so giddy to get into a fight with Hulk.
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Aug 1, 2014 19:56
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Grendels Dad posted:I love Tim Roth so much, he was easily the best part of that movie. He's just so giddy to get into a fight with Hulk. Half the reason the climax is such a letdown is that it takes Tim Roth off the table for the rest of the movie. Him just going out of his way to pick a fight with the Hulk in the campus sequence is probably one of my favorite moments in any superhero movie.
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Aug 1, 2014 20:16
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What I like about that fight in particular is that the excitement we as the audience feel is 100% the same as Blonsky's. The guy is having an absolute blast fighting the Hulk, and we don't really get to feel Hulk's part in the battle. It's all Blonsky and it's glorious. And yeah, when I first saw Abomination's face and heard his voice I almost let out an audible sigh. drat it movie, you had Tim Roth and you turned him into that?
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Aug 1, 2014 20:21
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Uncle Boogeyman posted:Him just going out of his way to pick a fight with the Hulk in the campus sequence is probably one of my favorite moments in any superhero movie. I think that is pretty much the only good part of the movie, and it's drat good.
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Aug 1, 2014 20:25
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Grendels Dad posted:What I like about that fight in particular is that the excitement we as the audience feel is 100% the same as Blonsky's. The guy is having an absolute blast fighting the Hulk, and we don't really get to feel Hulk's part in the battle. It's all Blonsky and it's glorious. He makes such a great villain because he wins the audience over onto his side just through sheer sack. He's not even really a villain so much as an antihero, until that climax at least. quote:And yeah, when I first saw Abomination's face and heard his voice I almost let out an audible sigh. drat it movie, you had Tim Roth and you turned him into that? It doesn't help that the design is ugly as poo poo. They couldn't have even gone with the weird mutated-toadface Abomination from the comics. Or bring over the bit from the comics where The Abomination maintains all of Blonsky's intelligence, so we could've at least gotten some Tim Roth voiceover out of it.
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Aug 1, 2014 20:26
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:I think that is pretty much the only good part of the movie, and it's drat good. *cough* bottle factory *cough* Uncle Boogeyman posted:He makes such a great villain because he wins the audience over onto his side just through sheer sack. He's not even really a villain so much as an antihero, until that climax at least. I like that his main motivation is that he is an action movie star that is Too Old For This poo poo who is slowly becoming a drug addict. He was all twitchy when he told the doctor that he wanted what Banner has, and I totally bought it. About the voiceover, is it known whether Roth wasn't available or something? It's the only explanation I can think of for them not doing that. It was only two or three short lines and they sounded like poo poo.
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Aug 1, 2014 20:33
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:I think that is pretty much the only good part of the movie, and it's drat good. It's the only good scene involving the CG hulk, since they place all the emphasis on dynamic poses, and not on the digital acting. The final battle is wrongheaded because it's all quickly-cut for speed, swooping around buildings, etc. - trying to synthesize the parkour stuff with the Hulk stuff. It doesn't mix.
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Aug 1, 2014 20:57
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To take this conversation back towards terminator 2. That movie is one that takes place primarily at night, and at no point does it look as horrible as that avengers shot SMG just posted.
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Aug 1, 2014 21:17
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Szmitten posted:Okay, I don't understand this because I hear this often. Man of Steel for me was all about the majesty, awe, and wonder at what this individual could do and the hope he brought people. Describe one scene in Man of Steel was dark/depressing/hopeless/sad/dirty? (without any smartass "when they shat on Superman's mythos" comments preferably) Instead of being the idyllic, character-building background that it usually is, Clark's childhood in Smallville is instead miserable and painful and filled with violent harassment and stigmatization. He has no friends whatsoever and any happy memories of his home town are almost comically-outweighed by the amount of more unpleasant experiences. His best friend in the comics is one of his bullies and then sells him out to the first reporter to come looking for him years later. His father tells him to repress himself and to fear humanity and suggests that he should let people die for his own interests, instead of to embrace his gifts and that humanity is worth saving. Smallville is a bona fide cesspool and there's no reason Clark should feel attached to it at all. In fact, everyone else around the world also treats Clark like poo poo, other than Lois...who agrees with him that he should repress himself. Because mind you, this isn't just a matter of tonal preference, this is also a matter of character-establishment...or lack thereof. Outside of Man of Steel, Clark's happier childhood in one of the few truly good places in the world, with parents who taught him to do the right thing and to protect others, is what instills in him his inherent altruism and love of humanity. There is a pleasant symmetry and identifiable logic to that presentation of Superman. It's why depictions of Krypton has slowly become more and more inhuman and sterile and amoral through the years, to further accentuate the positive effects that being raised amongst humans has on Superman. Now, Man of Steel's Clark was basically forced into saving the world after Zod's invasion left him no choice, but even before then he still seemed to want to go around helping people secretly. Why? Out of all the ways that Clark could have turned out after his upbringing in the actual asspit of America that chewed him up and spat him out, and with his father's dying wish being that he needs to not save people, what made him decide to want to go around helping anyway? Hell if we know, because the film never touches on it. Obviously, someone can go through a lovely childhood and still end up wanting inherently to do good, to prevent others from going through what he went through, or even to have revenge against the sort of people that made his life suck...but the film never explores this. We never explore Clark's empathy with his fellows, or that he would see himself in the downtrodden, or that he feels anything particularly defining against bullies and villains. Again, there's no symmetry to the narrative bleakness...it's just bleak for the hell of being bleak, and worse, it side-steps having to deal with any of the consequences of that bleakness. It wants to reap the benefits of being Superman -- the idea of an inherent moral superpowerful protector of mankind looking out for us -- without making any logical effort to establish it. (And none of that is even touching on what eventually goes down after Zod invades.) Compare that to GotG's Peter Quill, who was kidnapped as a child by abusive space pirates and forced to do their dirty work for more than twenty years, but even then -- even then -- still has memories of a loving mother and awesome (in his perspective, at least) homeland, and the gifts they left him that remind him to be a good person. There is a narrative, balanced logic to that, and it communicates to the audience. One of the most interesting things I've heard someone say about the Marvel movie 'verse is that, in that universe, goodness is contagious.
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Aug 1, 2014 21:18
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Grendels Dad posted:I love Tim Roth so much, he was easily the best part of that movie. He's just so giddy to get into a fight with Hulk. Oh yes. I'll be that guy and say I love the movie up until the big fight, where I just kinda like it. I agree with you guys on the lovely designs, but the movie still kinda works for me up until that point.
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Aug 1, 2014 21:27
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BrianWilly posted:Man of Steel takes elements of Superman's storyline that are usually, and necessarily, depicted as pleasant and idealistic and turns them into grim, unpleasant, bleak elements for no particular reason other than to be grim and unpleasant and bleak. But... that isn't true. Like, after the scene in which Clark is bullied, we see this other, former bully go over and offer him a hand. The sad dude who ends up as an Ihop manager doesn't "sell out" anyone - he tells a reporter where to find the Clark residence. His father tells him to let people die for the world's interests, because Pa Kent is convinced that a Superman revealed to early is going to be a Superman with a genuinely screwed-up childhood and therefore a Superman who endangers the world rather than improves it. I just don't know why you feel the need to make stuff up here. That said, it's definitely true that Man of Steel does not portray Smallville as an idyll or growing up with superpowers as fun or easy. There's a reason that Kansas is lit the same way Krypton is: it's that Kansas is Krypton, and Superman's human dad, while well-meaning, has a flawed and incomplete picture of his son's potential just as Superman's alien dad did. (Is Father Knows Best supposed to be a central element of Superman?) Man of Steel is about looking at an unpleasant situation and making strategic choices according to ingrained moral ideals. It's actually pretty important to the movie that Superman didn't passively soak up a cocktail of 50s goodfeels (You can only be Superman if you had a flawless childhood?); he was taught his values, or else deliberately read up on them himself.
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Aug 1, 2014 21:56
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Oh no! There's an emergency at the Joint Dark Energy Mission! Everyone's running away in a panic, but one group flies toward the danger in their spiffy helicopter. The worse bit of this was the casting of Cobie Smulders. She was perfectly fine on How I Met Your Mother, but I just couldn't get over how bad she was in Avengers, and didn't improve any for Cap 2.
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Aug 1, 2014 22:14
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BrianWilly posted:Man of Steel takes elements of Superman's storyline that are usually, and necessarily, depicted as pleasant and idealistic and turns them into grim, unpleasant, bleak elements for no particular reason other than to be grim and unpleasant and bleak. Right, well, I'm asking if Man of Steel is bleak in and of itself, not just in comparison to 75 years of other Superman media. Your post is kinda focusing on what you think Superman should be and how his past is/isn't depicted. quote:Instead of being the idyllic, character-building background that it usually is, Clark's childhood in Smallville is instead miserable and painful and filled with violent harassment and stigmatization. He seemed pretty happy to go back there though? And the bully he rescued becomes his friend later after saving him. I think you're dialing up the misery, pain and violence as opposed to what was actually depicted. Besides, isn't it more hopeful and inspiring for him to take it all in stride and still want to help people? People's perception of Superman as a boys scout and his naivety is due to the cutesy "good kid raised well in perfect gummy drop land"; Man of Steel is actively trying to show a more world conscious and empathetic Superman who's willing to help beyond his hometown. Even if you think young Clark Kent's childhood wasn't idyllic, isn't rising above that adversity something that makes the movie hopeful rather than bleak?
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Aug 1, 2014 22:20
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Avengers had really great cinematography. Some of the best I've ever seen in any movie ever, right up there with Goodfellas. I specifically mention Goodfellas because the whole movie has that kinda feel. That gritty realism of these ragtag misfits getting together and loving poo poo up.
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Aug 1, 2014 22:26
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Jamesman
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Aug 1, 2014 22:31
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I believe you mean Dan Didio posted:Jaaaaaamesmaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan
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Aug 1, 2014 22:33
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Dan Didio posted:Jamesman Yes hi. How are you?
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Aug 1, 2014 22:33
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Jamesman posted:Avengers had really great cinematography. Some of the best I've ever seen in any movie ever, right up there with Goodfellas. Why don't you show us what you think the best shots in the film are?
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Aug 1, 2014 22:35
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BrianWilly posted:Man of Steel takes elements of Superman's storyline that are usually, and necessarily, depicted as pleasant and idealistic and turns them into grim, unpleasant, bleak elements for no particular reason other than to be grim and unpleasant and bleak. Becoming Superman despite your lovely upbringing is a greater accomplishment than doing it because your entire life has basically trained you to become Superman, IMO. I thought Pa Kent had a fairly reasonable reaction to finding out that his alien son was pretty much an indestructible hyper powerful god... he wanted to teach him restraint and hold him back from imposing his will on the world as much as possible, even at the potential cost of a few saved lives. His kid is essentially a living atomic bomb that could level his terrible loving hometown in an instant if he lets his temper gets the better of him, so he does everything he can to contain him - even to the point of allowing himself to die rather than let his son use his abilities to save him. They could have gone a lot darker with it, because despite all the stress you could see that Kent really did love his monster-child & honestly wanted what he thought would be best for him.
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Aug 1, 2014 22:46
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Bob Quixote posted:Becoming Superman despite your lovely upbringing is a greater accomplishment than doing it because your entire life has basically trained you to become Superman, IMO. Same goes for humanity as a whole. Saving friendly old grannies and jolly newspaper boys might be fun, but saving the guy who kind of was a douchebag to you in school? That takes a good guy.
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Aug 1, 2014 22:49
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I mean, those pancakes aren't going to serve themselves!
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Aug 1, 2014 22:55
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It's easy to regurgitate the feel-good concept that you should help people even when they're mean to you (and I don't mean regurgitate in a bad way necessarily), but we're still left with the question of why Clark would do this. Why should he, the character, the person, have this sort of precious altruism in him? It would be one thing if, say, one or another of his parents told him that he had to help people no matter how bad they might be, but they don't; they tell the exact opposite. Or maybe his parents sheltered and repressed him, but the people around him growing up are so nice and welcoming that he can't help but to want to give back regardless of his upbringing at home. What we actually have is that his parents very explicitly tell him not to help people, and there's not a single good influence on him from anywhere else in his hometown, and we layer that on top of every bad experience he had even after he left Smallville to go explore the rest of the world. It's like a grimdark turducken. A grimducken, if you will, and it leaves a big gaping hole in his characterization that screams "You want this guy to be the Superman that is good and instills hope, but you have not built that character."
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Aug 1, 2014 23:12
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Even in the scene in which Clark's dad (not his mom; Clark's mother, who outlives Clark's father, is clearly a very different influence on him)(In general, it turns out in Man of Steel that Clark's female friends and role models prove to be more enduring and level headed influences on Clark than his male friends and role models) painedly tells Clark that he should've let that bus sink, he phrases it not in terms of "but they'll lock you up in a lab" (that was actually his mom's worry, expressed later) but in terms of what overall effect that would have on the wider world. Clark's father constantly, constantly impresses upon Clark what immense significance Clark has for humanity and earth in general. "Super powers? Great, use them to help people" is such an obvious line of reasoning that it's an assumed goal of every decent character. The question in the movie is, when? How? How often? How do you prioritize? Where do you put your focus? It's a very intellectual movie, not in the sense of it being "smart" but in the sense of it being majorly about, like, weighing consequences and making strategic decisions. The last scene in Man of Steel reveals that, all along, Clark's dad wanted Clark to be an inspiring, heroic, public figure - he was just scared of the consequences for the world of that happening too early.
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Aug 1, 2014 23:19
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BrianWilly posted:It would be one thing if, say, one or another of his parents told him that he had to help people no matter how bad they might be, but they don't; they tell the exact opposite. His father goes back, and ultimately loses his life, in order to save a dog. We can assume that this wasn't an isolated incident (besides they dying part). Clark learned by example.
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Aug 1, 2014 23:46
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GotG made more in midnight showings on Thursday than Cap 2 did, which is encouraging.
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Aug 1, 2014 23:57
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Sir Kodiak posted:His father goes back, and ultimately loses his life, in order to save a dog. We can assume that this wasn't an isolated incident (besides they dying part). Clark learned by example.
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Aug 2, 2014 00:00
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BrianWilly posted:Isn't that the opposite of helping rear end in a top hat strangers who are mean to you? It's a dog. It's your own dog. You'd kind of have to be a huge sociopath to let someone die just because "they were a dick to me once when I was a kid", especially if you know that it would require basically no real effort or risk on your part to save them.
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Aug 2, 2014 00:07
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BrianWilly posted:Isn't that the opposite of helping rear end in a top hat strangers who are mean to you? It's a dog. It's your own dog. He died saving the dog because he wasted his time pulling someone else's kid out of a different car first.
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Aug 2, 2014 00:15
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BrianWilly posted:Isn't that the opposite of helping rear end in a top hat strangers who are mean to you? It's a dog. It's your own dog. It's an example of helping someone who is less than you, which is how Clark treats rear end in a top hat strangers. He's not so much forgiving as he is understanding of how limited humans are.
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Aug 2, 2014 00:16
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Sir Kodiak posted:It's an example of helping someone who is less than you, which is how Clark treats rear end in a top hat strangers. He's not so much forgiving as he is understanding of how limited humans are. Someone (maybe SMG) mentioned that humanity is basically like dogs to Superman, so the metaphor is apt there.
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Aug 2, 2014 01:09
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Ferrinus posted:It's a very intellectual movie, not in the sense of it being "smart" but in the sense of it being majorly about, like, weighing consequences and making strategic decisions. It'd kind of have to be, since the only emotions it seemed interested in conveying or evoking were awe, alienation, and horror. Which is, you know, fine. I like horror and disaster movies. I like movies where people are lost and helpless and afraid. I like movies with big scary monsters! But generally those movies aren't also plodding two and a half hour epics that go out of their way to elaborate every nuance and wrinkle of the kaiju/comet's origin. Man of Steel conforms rigorously to the superstructure of the superhero origin story while simultaneously refusing to give you any of the emotional anchors that make those movies watchable in the first place. You can't sustain a movie that big and elaborate on the theme of "you have to choose what you care about" without giving the audience anything to care about. The movie is really effective at taking the commonly accepted conceits of Superman, playing them totally straight, and making them seem alien and hostile and off-putting. Insofar as the movie's audience is worthy of scorn, this is a laudable endeavor. Insofar as you want to tell a story that people enjoy, it was astoundingly tone-deaf.
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Aug 2, 2014 01:18
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I thought Man of Steel was the best superhero movie ever until the climax started (fighting Zod in Smallville), and then my joy turned to ashes in my mouth.
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Aug 2, 2014 01:49
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Attorney at Funk posted:It'd kind of have to be, since the only emotions it seemed interested in conveying or evoking were awe, alienation, and horror. That's how I feel about it, but the tone-deafness is very specific - Snyder's visual ambitions are much better and much more fun to read than the dumbbell dialog the characters say throughout.
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Aug 2, 2014 01:52
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BrianWilly posted:Superman child stuff
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Aug 2, 2014 01:52
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Spatula City posted:I thought Man of Steel was the best superhero movie ever until the climax started (fighting Zod in Smallville), and then my joy turned to ashes in my mouth. It's funny how people apparently don't remember the break between the Smallville fight and the Metropolis fight.
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Aug 2, 2014 01:53
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Probably because it was unmemorable.
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Aug 2, 2014 01:54
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computer parts posted:It's funny how people apparently don't remember the break between the Smallville fight and the Metropolis fight. I think that says more about the movie than it does the people remembering it.
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Aug 2, 2014 01:56
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