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Well, I was kind of caught off guard with the system of how bills are split up, and it kind of throws my previous setup in the trash. Here's a quick and dirty overwork: - Inclusionists get 4 bills: 2 core Inclusionist bills, 2 minor party bills. - Inclusionists get 3 bills: 1 core Inclusionist bill, 2 minor party bills. - Inclusionists get 2 bills: 1 core Inclusionist bill, 1 minor party bill. - Inclusionists get 1 bills: 1 core Inclusionist bill, 0 minor party bills. Bills can be changed from core bills to minor bills and vice versa if spots are open by the time the legislation should be submitted. The minor parties count as one combined group for the sake of discussion, since we don't have the leeway to give everybody their own bill. This split should give the minors their opportunity to submit bills, but not leave the core members in the dust. Now, to the bills themselves. I see one bill has already been suggested, the Black Tortoise Act, but I believe that it's probably too complicated to count as a single bill. Cutting it down is probably required. I might think a bill up myself at some point, but given that I just fried my laptop, I've got some other things to do too.
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Aug 2, 2014 12:35
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Kor posted:The thing is that Mandarin does not need to be an official language of the Empire in order for it to be recognized as an academic or diplomatic language. Our official languages, as others have pointed out, are a reflection of the peoples of Rome. Our people are not Ming, Mandarin is not a daily language for them. Certainly we could make some effort to teach the Mandarin language within academia and the bureaucracy as a means to benefit our own technological progress and aid our diplomatic efforts with the Ming successor states. However, integrating Mandarin within our society to a greater extent would serve no real purpose except to sidestep the will of this body and attempt to sinicize Romans through less direct means. It's frankly disgusting the lengths to which the Monternos will go to advance the Ming within our own Empire.  The Inclusionists  Gurgen II Qutuzid Gurgen I Qutuzid's original proposal of the Tri-Lingual Literacy Act posted:For a long time knowledge has been taught and sought in but one language: Greek. With many immigrants arriving from both East and West, bringing along with them teachings from far away, the exclusiveness of the Greek language in our hallowed halls is slowly becoming more of a hinder as more and more scholars are unable to speak to one another and read the texts of the other. It wasn't about the common people. The Tri-Lingual Literacy Act, as proposed by my eponymous ancestor Gurgen I, was about Knowledge and Learning. When scholars fled to the Byzantine borders seeking refuge they brought with them tomes of knowledge, books for which they were often hunted from their homes. The Tri-Lingual Literacy Act was to secure the knowledge of these men so that it would not be wasted, and to ensure that further books of knowledge could be gathered from the Latin West as well as the Arabic East. All we want to do is extend it and ensure that the teachings of the Far East and the Cathayan secrets contained within is given its fair place amongst the Latin, Greek and Arabic scholars of old.
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Aug 2, 2014 12:42
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Kor posted:
It's amazing how everyone seems to forget that it was the way of Rome to adapt the ways of others to suit her needs. If the Ming have something we could use, then the Roman thing to do would be to adapt it to serve our needs. To throw this away is throw away our heritage.
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Aug 2, 2014 12:42
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Luhood posted:
My apologies then. An effort to catalog and better verse ourselves in the teachings of the Ming would undoubtedly be to our benefit. Still, I am leery. The Monternos seem to be pushing for much more than a simple exchange of ideas and adoption of better scientific practices. One need look only at the daughter of the party's founder. Now, we are a tolerant society, and I have no issue with the proclivities or heritage of either woman. But still, it is curious, isn't it? Their push for sinicization as Senator Hira reveals her daughter to this chamber. Curious indeed. Ultimately, I suppose what I am preaching is caution in how far down this road we go. Already we have adopted eastern bureaucracy, and to our advantage. But the idea that we should artificially realign Roman society completely around Ming influences ought to give every senator pause.
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Aug 2, 2014 13:29
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 I shall ##join the Hellenic Restoration.
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Aug 2, 2014 13:34
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 ##RJoin Monternos Party.
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Aug 2, 2014 13:37
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Part of me just want to play a 500 year old vampire/lich that sits in the same senate forever as the country develops, I wonder if that would be pretty cheesy though.
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Aug 2, 2014 14:00
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Rincewind posted:Neo-Milivian submissions must have the support of at least two out of three of their leaders by default. If you wish for another arrangement, please let me know.  I have to note that internal Neo-Milvian agreement is that all decisions demand unanimous agreement from the party leaders that form the coalition. We do not want, under any circumstance, to allow any member party to be marginalised. Luhood posted:
I understand your concerns and your intents. However, I must pose a counterargument to you. The intent of the Tri-Lingual act was to ensure that scholars would be able to read, understand, and compose texts without having to learn the as-until-then de facto lingua franca of the Empire, Greek. Our Italian scholars would be able to use their more native Latin, and our Muslim subjects the language of their holy scriptures, Arabic, languages that any scholar of those backgrounds would by necessity be familiar with. Even then, these languages were representative, and they allowed our scholars from those backgrounds to avoid having to learn a singular lingua franca. But who would Mandarin represent in our Empire? Certainly the Eastern Empire's armies marched through our lands, and their scholars came with them, but their cultural influence upon is next to none. Who in our Empire would read texts in Mandarin? Who would translate our texts to Mandarin? If you were a Greek scholar, or an Italian scholar, or a Mohammedan scholar, surely your language of scholarly choice would be, bar any unlikely exceptions, Greek, Latin, or Arabic respectively, languages to which we can surely translate any and all Chinese texts. But much like we are not adding French to the list, or how we would not add the language of any other Empire far from our borders which we have not heard of yet, there is no reason to add Mandarin. It seems to me, ultimately, a pointless gesture, symbolic than substantial. What it symbolises, I'm not certain, but be that as it is, it can certainly be made in such a way that would not add yet another layer of bureaucracy upon our Empire's Phanariote pursuits.
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Aug 2, 2014 14:22
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Welcome Kor! Feel free to add me on Skype if you want an invite to the relevant chats.Luhood posted:
The Tetra-Lingual Act explicitly refers to making Mandarin an official language, not merely a "language of science." Your original intent is irrelevant. The difference is that we have native populations of Greek, Latin, and Arabic speakers, so making those languages the official ones of the Empire makes a certain amount of sense. The only people speaking Mandarin in the Empire are our scholars, who do not need official backing to do so. Putting Mandarin on the same level as the others appears to be no more than an attempt at Sinicization by other means, as some of my colleagues have pointed out. Unless our scholars are currently banned from reading and writing Mandarin, (which they're not) the proposal makes very little sense at all. Why not make every language an official language, don't want to miss out on any science! Anyway, I look forward to other parties introducing some non-mingophile acts. New Marians, Adventure Merchants, what are your thoughts? sniper4625 fucked around with this message at 15:57 on Aug 2, 2014 |
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Aug 2, 2014 14:49
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##Join Monternos Party.
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Aug 2, 2014 15:06
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 ##join the Inclusionists
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Aug 2, 2014 15:10
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 ## Join The Komnenian Restoration ##join the Inclusionists And as for some builds, here are some tentative provisions for the No One Stops My Party act. - The Byzantine Senate shall, at all times, have an open bar. - Any member of the Komenenos family may use this bar, regardless of membership in the senate, unless a vote is currently taking place. - Of the signature cocktails of this bar, one shall be named for Consul Scruffles. The specific recipe for a Scruffles are open to debate.
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Aug 2, 2014 16:31
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GoatLord posted:
 An Inclusionist bill I can agree with!
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Aug 2, 2014 16:35
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##Join Discordians
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Aug 2, 2014 17:15
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Divine supremacy is inherently better mechanics-wise, but I suppose being Rome going high tolerance is actually natural.
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Aug 2, 2014 17:24
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Readingaccount posted:Divine supremacy is inherently better mechanics-wise, but I suppose being Rome going high tolerance is actually natural. I will note that our tolerance only extends to those practicing heathen faiths. For good Christians who should know better, heresy is to rejected and avoided, (in line with our negative heresy tolerance)
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Aug 2, 2014 17:49
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##Join the New Marians We have taken too many losses in wars so far, and need to get better at warfare.
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Aug 2, 2014 18:17
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What the hell, this seems like the best option for audience members who don't care about tedious role-playing. ##Join Discordians
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Aug 2, 2014 18:19
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 ##Join the Adventurer Merchants. We need bigger boats men! Enough boats to occupy the entire Mediterranean!
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Aug 2, 2014 18:22
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 ##Re-join the New Marians
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Aug 2, 2014 18:29
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##Re-Join the Monternos Party.
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Aug 2, 2014 18:40
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To join a party, post ##Join (party name) and your chosen party's icon. Except for sitting party leaders, party leadership does not roll over from session to session. This is to prevent inactive senators from clogging the rolls! So if you joined a party in the last election, you'll need to join it again. THE PARTIES OF THE BYZANTINE SENATE I realize that some parties are changing leaders, so please consider the leaders listed to be acting leaders. For a party to change leaders, the current leader needs to ##Transfer Party Leadership to the new leader. Theoretically, a party leader can just unilaterally transfer leadership to any random person on a whim, although presumably you'll want to adopt some kind of internal procedure.  MONTERNOS PARTY StrifeHira posted:The Monternos Party was founded as a party dedicated to making sure the Roman Empire of the 15th century and beyond was not a Rome stuck in the past, but a Rome looking to the future. A "modern" Rome. As such they support and propose anything that can be used to update the current state of Rome, looking both to nations that have gained a technological edge as inspiration and to possible applications of existing technology within the state. New advances in warfare, seafaring, science, theology, and so forth are all supported by the Monternos Party. LEADER: Senator S. Emilia Hira (StrifeHira)  MEMBERS LJN92 mcclay Ogianres Alexey D3m3 Josef bugman Rubix Squid JT Jag Not So Fast Caustic Soda TinTower cokerpilot      ADVENTURER MERCHANTS Funky Valentine posted:The patricians of Venice have unfortunately all died in a tragic manure explosion (marked "From Yaroslavich", hm) and have been replaced by a younger, more outgoing group of glorified bankers. They've come together to found THE ADVENTURER MERCHANTStm, a party based around "THIthe following principles:  LEADER: Senator Enrico "Moneybeard" Valentinius (FunkyValentine) MEMBERS Frozen_flame Pyroi Fraternalists Rejected Fate Mongols and Merchants LEADER: Senator Metiga Sallajer (Blackunknown) Roman Enotita LEADER: Senator Abydos Felicious (AdventFalls) Craftsmen's League: LEADER: Senator Matthias Vounómou (Meinberg)  NEW MARIANS NewMars posted:The New Marians were originally a cross-party faction devoted to the restoration of Roman standing armies. Now that this is accomplished, they are here to keep the army strong and the nobility weak. They are no jingoistic throwbacks, but men (and women, remember that we started with the gender equality mod on!) who seek to sustain the state through means military, which means taking all who will stand for Rome. To a lesser extent, they tend to harbor all sorts of republican dissidents, due to the Mars family's personal beliefs.  LEADER: Mars family (NewMars) MEMBERS Flesnolk Sky Shadowing Samuel Vagon ManicMarine Cestrian WeaponGradeSadness nothing to seehere Sparq     NEO-MILVIAN COALITION AJ_Impy posted:Adopting the banner of the Komemnian-era Milvians as a sign of their common cause, The Faithful, Unitas and the Ecclesiastical Movement pooled their resources in a mutual coalition to further the interests of the One True Church. The Faithful LEADER: Theophilus AJ Impy (AJ_Impy) MEMBERS HiHo ChiRho Unitas LEADER: sniper4625 MEMBERS Lord Cyrahzax Kor Ecclesiastical Movement LEADER: YF-23 MEMBERS    INCLUSIONIST PARTY TheMcD posted:What we want is a truly peaceful, stable and tolerant state. As such, we oppose any sort of expansion, be it diplomatic or militaristic (even diplomatic expansion brings turmoil to the realm). However, we would be open to this new practice called "colonization", if we were to find some sparsely populated land somewhere. We also oppose the expansion of the army, but aren't blinded so much that we don't realize that keeping an armed force around is necessary considering the dangers coming from abroad. Similar measures apply for the Black Chamber - aggressive intrigue is opposed, defensive intrigue for the stability of the realm is accepted. A certain focus on technological progress is accepted, but stability must come first. As for tolerance, we wish to support any and all other cultures or religions within the realm that aren't the "official" one and allow them to keep all their traditions and practices. LEADER: TheMcD MEMBERS GSD Luhood TheFlyingLlama Komnenian Restoration GoatLord Da Qin (Not that Da Qin) Raserys Guiding Light True Religion's Advocates in Times of Strife Ghetto Prince   THE DISCORDIANS Some senators don't play well with others. With Yaroslav's old committee system dissolved, malcontents are again free to flock together and plot the downfall of the whole rotten system-- to roll the dice of fate, and hope Fortuna provides them with something better, something brighter, something new. In addition, certain events ("events" in the sense of "things that happen in the thread or in-game", not the game mechanic of "events") may increase the pressure on the existing institutions of state. Think of it as a sort of meta-stability, maybe? The total number of Discordian senators plus the current pressure is the Discordians' strength. If the strength is ever greater than the ruling party (or caucus of parties-- you might want to consider banding together if things get bad) the current system will fall apart and something different will happen. Press button to blow up empire. LEADER: NONE MEMBERS Hitlers Gay Secret Tevery Best WilliamAnderson Freudian dongsbot 9000 GunnerJ Hellenic Restoration ThatBasqueGuy sheep-dodger TOTAL: 8 PRESSURE: 5 STRENGTH: 13
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Aug 2, 2014 18:52
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If you joined the Discordians out of laziness or a desire to avoid RP, I make a heartfelt plea to switch to any other party. (Except the Inclusionists, they're lame.) We appear to be on a knife's edge, so unless you're pretty keen on bad things happening to Rome, I think a lot of people would be grateful if you'd move elsewhere. At the same time, I'm wondering if other parties would be interested in a Coalition for Roman Stability, or something of the sort - I'd hate for us to have made all this progress only to lose it due to a metafluke.
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Aug 2, 2014 18:56
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do i have to join to vote on the poll things
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Aug 2, 2014 18:57
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Chwoka posted:do i have to join to vote on the poll things Which poll things? Usually registration hasn't been required for big votes like the Sinicization one, but has been for any legislation voting. Rince may change that at any time though.
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Aug 2, 2014 18:58
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sniper4625 posted:Which poll things? Usually registration hasn't been required for big votes like the Sinicization one, but has been for any legislation voting. Rince may change that at any time though. yeah, that's what i meant. okay. see you next poll
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Aug 2, 2014 19:00
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Yeah, everything besides legislation and voting to decide which party is dominant (which also influences what I do as a player, and is a kind of vote for the overall direction of Rome for that session) is open to absolutely anybody. You can be an unaligned senator and still vote on things like the Sinicization vote, our vote on whether to release Kartli, whether to accept Altunketin's ultimatum, or whatever.
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Aug 2, 2014 19:00
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Also, for the love of God, Monternos, pick a leader.
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Aug 2, 2014 19:07
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Rincewind posted:Also, for the love of God, Monternos, pick a leader. I humbly volunteer my services. Under my tenure, Unitas membership has increased by 50%! That's some good metrics.
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Aug 2, 2014 19:08
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##Rejoin the Inclusionists. May peace and progress be the guides of Rome in the years to come!
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Aug 2, 2014 19:10
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sniper4625 posted:
I don't think you "get" discord, buddy.  I joined out of my interests as an audience member first, as someone who doesn't care about roleplaying second. Seeing bad things happen to Rome is interesting. I'm not pretending to have to live there.
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Aug 2, 2014 19:13
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GunnerJ posted:I don't think you "get" discord, buddy. If you actively want to cause Discord, then that's fine. My message was more targeted towards anyone who didn't really care either way.
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Aug 2, 2014 19:15
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I would like to propose a Department of Cultural Protection and Representation Act • A bureaucratic agency will be created with the purpose of overseeing the protection of the traditional rights of our cultural minorities, as well as being a convenient place for said minorities to file complaints. The agency will advise the Empress on necessary changes to better accommodate our minority citizens. • All administrative efforts will be put towards achieving the Cultural Ties idea in Humanism. • Finishing the rest of Humanist ideas must remain a major priority, but the Empress may take her time once Cultural Ties have been acquired. • Once Policies are acquired, one Humanist-tied Policy must be in place at all times. As what policies we will have access to will depend on our later idea groups, the choice of Policy is left to Imperial fiat, at least until future legislation is made. Hopefully that is narrow enough. Mainly it is meant to be GET CULTURAL TIES YESTERDAY. Seriously, it is like the best idea in the game and it is right there.
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Aug 2, 2014 19:16
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GSD posted:
That sounds pretty good to me. If that passes the test for "specific enough", then I would ##Submit that thing unless somebody from the party thinks it should be changed or goes against the charter. Also, I wouldn't worry too much about the Discordians for now. I'm not sure it works this way, but I'd like to make a permanent instruction for the party - if the Discordians would succeed in their plan of "push button, blow up empire", then the Inclusionists will drop everything and join up with the largest party to prevent it. There's no bigger threat to the stability than somebody that can just blow up the empire, so that should be #1 priority to defend against.
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Aug 2, 2014 19:23
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Rather than accommodation, we should be working towards assimilation! Bring the separate and distinct cultures of our lands together as new parts of the one true Roman Empire! Legislatively maintaining differences between our constituent cultures furthers the notion that they are "others," furthers the notion that we are not one united Empire, but a patchwork of individual cultures and ethnicities. No, whether your background is Italian, Greek, Turkish, or anything else, a Roman is what you are now! That is what we should be encouraging! A united people! I have no objection to several Humanist policies, so that could work well. Was a culture map posted? I might have missed it. sniper4625 fucked around with this message at 19:29 on Aug 2, 2014 |
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Aug 2, 2014 19:24
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That act is sufficiently specific, since it all hinges on the humanist idea set and how it would be reflected in other aspects of running the empire. Edit: Culture map. We currently accept everything in the Byzantine Group, and Turkish. 
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Aug 2, 2014 19:25
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sniper4625 posted:If you actively want to cause Discord, then that's fine. My message was more targeted towards anyone who didn't really care either way. Alright, cool. Just figured the "desire to avoid RP" part was directed at me.
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Aug 2, 2014 19:27
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##Join Discordians Joining out of laziness and a desire to avoid RP.
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Aug 2, 2014 19:29
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sniper4625 posted:If you joined the Discordians out of laziness or a desire to avoid RP, I make a heartfelt plea to switch to any other party. (Except the Inclusionists, they're lame.) We appear to be on a knife's edge, so unless you're pretty keen on bad things happening to Rome, I think a lot of people would be grateful if you'd move elsewhere. The only way you can get me to join any party other than the Discordians (since TRAITORS have betrayed the ideals of loving with the system and joined the lukewarm, boring hippie can't-we-all-just-get-along Inclusionists) is to find the only other thing I've ever cared about in this thread and work to implement it: curtailing the Black Chamber. Otherwise, I'm happy to join the only party with a truly unique mechanic.
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Aug 2, 2014 19:30
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sniper4625 posted:
Assimilation is a dangerous approach. For now you ask that we be Roman, but tomorrow that stops being enough. Then we have to be the right kind of Roman, with the right ideas and the right faith. You may say that you only ask for is simple, but I know how this story ends. Accommodation, and tolerance is the best plan.
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Aug 2, 2014 19:31
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