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NYPD officer rapes woman, gets acquitted because it's impossible to convict a cop of anything, sues victim: http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/31/us-usa-lawsuit-police-idUSKBN0G02A420140731 Note that he was convicted of official misconduct based on what he admitted to doing (lying about where he was, stealing the woman's keys, getting into bed with the passed-out victim) and sentenced to a year in prison. Another judge ordered him released after serving a grueling four hours.
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Aug 1, 2014 00:22
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meat sweats posted:The fact that police rely on dogs to maul suspects and write their behavior off as "well, it's a dog" but fighting back against a police dog is considered equivalent to hitting a cop is bullshit and should also be stopped In fairness, it's not like police dogs have a worse record of inappropriate use of force.
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Aug 1, 2014 00:31
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To the surprise of few, even electing a former Sandinista lobbyist as mayor has not changed the culture of the NYPD: http://gothamist.com/2014/07/31/misdemeanor_arrests_higher_under_de.php quote:Police officers arrested a construction worker on a weapon charge because he had a painting knife, which was covered in paint, sticking out of his pocket. He now has a criminal record.
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Aug 1, 2014 02:58
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meat sweats posted:To the surprise of few, even electing a former Sandinista lobbyist as mayor has not changed the culture of the NYPD: But can we really blame the mayor? I mean he's probably under huge pressure from the governor to do something so I don't think faulting him for this is going to fix anything.
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Aug 1, 2014 06:13
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Can we really blame someone who was supposed to be some kind of left-wing Jesus for actually making a major civil liberties problem worse?
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Aug 1, 2014 06:15
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meat sweats posted:Can we really blame someone who was supposed to be some kind of left-wing Jesus for actually making a major civil liberties problem worse? No, teacher unions must be to blame. e: who are also left-wing e2: like jesus
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Aug 1, 2014 06:27
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The death of Eric Garner has been ruled a homicide: http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-garner-homicide-20140801-story.html Now taking bets on: 1) How long before the medical examiner is fired for "unrelated reasons" 2) Whether the officers involved will negotiate a plea that results in no jail time, or be convicted of a lesser charge for which they will receive no jail time 3) When the officers involved will stop receiving pay and pension. "Never" is on the board.
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Aug 1, 2014 22:33
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meat sweats posted:Can we really blame someone who was supposed to be some kind of left-wing Jesus for actually making a major civil liberties problem worse? We deported some folks.
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Aug 2, 2014 01:53
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Obdicut posted:The SF police department also had a nearly completely useless forensics lab, with one tech there who was addicted to cocaine and would just make poo poo up on a regular basis. I never knew about the "make poo poo up on a regular basis" part, but it doesn't surprise me if she was doing that. There was more to it though. The lab tech in question had been stealing cocaine from the crime lab for years, and due to her fuckery of the evidence, over 700 drug cases had to be dropped. There are a lot of dumb stories of incompetence and corruption I could share about the SFPD. One of my favorites is when an evidence warehouses got overrun by feral cats...that were the descendants of cats that the SFPD itself had brought in years earlier (and then apparently forgotten) to control a rodent problem.
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Aug 2, 2014 02:37
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Rah! posted:I never knew about the "make poo poo up on a regular basis" part, but it doesn't surprise me if she was doing that. There was more to it though. The lab tech in question had been stealing cocaine from the crime lab for years, and due to her fuckery of the evidence, over 700 drug cases had to be dropped. A coworker of mine was murdered, and the SFPD ruled it a suicide even though the victim was inside a locked apartment, neighbors heard a commotion, there was blood on the outside door, and there was no knife found with blood on it. The police theory was that he stabbed himself, left the apartment, went back into the apartment, cleaned the knife off, and then lay down to die. The reason for this was that they had a spiraling number of homicides and prosecutors were completely uninterested in a case where there were zero leads as to who had actually killed him (probably someone following him home from the club). They even interviewed coworkers and tried to get them to say he was depressed. http://www.sfweekly.com/sanfrancisc...ent?oid=2826340
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Aug 2, 2014 02:48
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Obdicut posted:A coworker of mine was murdered, and the SFPD ruled it a suicide even though the victim was inside a locked apartment, neighbors heard a commotion, there was blood on the outside door, and there was no knife found with blood on it. The police theory was that he stabbed himself, left the apartment, went back into the apartment, cleaned the knife off, and then lay down to die. The reason for this was that they had a spiraling number of homicides and prosecutors were completely uninterested in a case where there were zero leads as to who had actually killed him (probably someone following him home from the club). They even interviewed coworkers and tried to get them to say he was depressed. You knew him? drat, small world. That was a really obvious case of bullshittery on the SFPD's part. Some more details: -the lead homicide inspector was romantically involved with the medical examiner (no conflict of interest there, nope!). This is of course the examiner that checked the body and confirmed the inspector's claim that the victim committed suicide. -due to the victim being a French citizen, and the clear loving of the investigation by the SFPD, the victim's parents managed to get French homicide detectives involved. They came to SF and quickly concluded that it was a murder. During their investigation, they did basic things like check the victim's emails, that the SFPD never bothered to do. -medical examiners from neighboring Marin and San Mateo counties did their own investigations and also concluded that it was clearly a murder. -a private investigator also came to the conclusion that it was a murder. How did the SFPD respond to all this? They basically said "thanks for your concern, but we already investigated and it's a suicide"  This was the same year that the SFPD claimed that an SF state student took acid, stripped himself naked in one of the worst neighborhoods of SF, and then stabbed himself to death.
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Aug 2, 2014 03:06
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Rah! posted:You knew him? drat, small world. Only enough to nod to him in the hallway. One of my friends at work was a close friend and is still very angry about it--rightly so. I mean, even if they'd investigated the chances of them (at that level of incompetence) finding the killer was really unlikely, it was probably a robbery attempt by someone who followed him home, there was no video evidence, etc. I'd also like to point out that intentionally tanking this case can't be explained by the police being thugs or oppressors or sadists or what have you, but it can be very easily explained by political pressure to keep the homicide rate from rising any farther than it already had.
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Aug 2, 2014 03:13
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Obdicut posted:I'd also like to point out that intentionally tanking this case can't be explained by the police being thugs or oppressors or sadists or what have you, but it can be very easily explained by political pressure to keep the homicide rate from rising any farther than it already had. I would definitely agree with this. It was in 2007, which saw a record high murder rate (highest since 1995), after 3 previous year of similarly high murder rates...and it was when Gavin Newsom was mayor, and had made a promise that if the murder rate didn't drop, he wouldn't run for a second term. So you have a police department that wants to look better, and a city government that wants to look better, so it's not surprising that there were more than a couple questionable conclusions by the SFPD homicide unit that year (the city still hit triple digits for murders though...officially it hit 100, but probably was a little higher in reality). A couple years later, the city's new police chief, George Gascon (now the DA) revealed that the SFPD had been cooking violent crime stats since at least 2005. They were omitting all aggravated assaults that were related to domestic violence (so 1,000-2,000 incidents per year), which made SF's violent crime total look about 20% lower every year. Gascon said that he suspected that other crimes were being intentionally misreported too. And who paid attention to this? No one. It should have been big news, but as far as I can tell there were only two small articles on it, in free local papers with relatively small circulation. The big Bay Area news outlets completely ignored it. And the only article that had stats included has since disappeared from the internet (I saved the data though, and will post it if anyone's interested). edit: though i agree with others that willingly going along with political pressure to fix crime stats does make you a thuggish individual of some sort, whether you want to admit it or not. Rah! fucked around with this message at 04:41 on Aug 2, 2014 |
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Aug 2, 2014 03:53
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Obdicut posted:I'd also like to point out that intentionally tanking this case can't be explained by the police being thugs or oppressors or sadists or what have you, but it can be very easily explained by political pressure to keep the homicide rate from rising any farther than it already had. If you ignore your job and let someone get away with murder for "political reasons" rather than because you are a sadist you are still an unethical person and a bad cop 
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Aug 2, 2014 04:29
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Do "good guys" you'd "have a beer with" keep their good guy status if they suppress evidence of murder?
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Aug 2, 2014 04:31
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Rah! posted:I would definitely agree with this. It was in 2007, which saw a record high murder rate (highest since 1995), after 3 previous year of similarly high murder rates...and it was when Gavin Newsom was mayor, and had made a promise that if the murder rate didn't drop, he wouldn't run for a second term. So you have a police department that wants to look better, and a city government that wants to look better, so it's not surprising that there were more than a couple questionable conclusions by the SFPD homicide unit that year (the city still hit triple digits for murders though...officially it hit 100, but probably was a little higher in reality). To be fair to Newsom, the SFPD and district attorney's office has been hosed since at least Jordan, who went form chief of police to mayor and was therefore able to systemize the horrible poo poo he liked as chief of police. The transitions between chief of police, mayor, district attorney, et al. has made the SFPD really dysfunctional. It's been run by career politicians (or those who wanted to be career politicians) for a long time. The lastest DA appears actually sincere about drug diversion programs, his community courts idea is pretty decent, so hopefully things will improve. I don't know anything about the current SFPD chief though.
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Aug 2, 2014 04:37
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meat sweats posted:If you ignore your job and let someone get away with murder for "political reasons" rather than because you are a sadist you are still an unethical person and a bad cop I quite clearly agree. Did you not read my post? SedanChair posted:Do "good guys" you'd "have a beer with" keep their good guy status if they suppress evidence of murder? Nope. I actually answered that earlier, too. You don't really bother to do the 'paying attention to reality rather than fantasy', do you?
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Aug 2, 2014 04:38
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Obdicut posted:Nope. I actually answered that earlier, too. You don't really bother to do the 'paying attention to reality rather than fantasy', do you? I guess Obdicut Friend status is secure, pending any upcoming media exposés.
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Aug 2, 2014 04:43
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SedanChair posted:I guess Obdicut Friend status is secure, pending any upcoming media exposés. I have no friends on the SFPD though. See, you apparently missed the bit where I said I had friends on the New Haven police force, and then you had some sort of weird spasm, and decided that meant I had cop friends on the SFPD. Or something. It's hard to tell with you, you're pretty zany.
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Aug 2, 2014 04:45
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Rah! posted:I never knew about the "make poo poo up on a regular basis" part, but it doesn't surprise me if she was doing that. There was more to it though. The lab tech in question had been stealing cocaine from the crime lab for years, and due to her fuckery of the evidence, over 700 drug cases had to be dropped. Lab techs outright lying about the tests is a fairly common thing. The most recent case in Boston is particularly chilling since the chemist involved not only lied about actually being a chemist but had been potentially responsible for more than ten thousand wrongful convictions from faking test results (she got sentenced to like five iirc). There have been plenty of others, of course. Reminder for August 1st, 2014 that the entire criminal justice system is rotten garbage all the way down.
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Aug 2, 2014 04:52
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Obdicut posted:A coworker of mine was murdered, and the SFPD ruled it a suicide even though the victim was inside a locked apartment, neighbors heard a commotion, there was blood on the outside door, and there was no knife found with blood on it. The police theory was that he stabbed himself, left the apartment, went back into the apartment, cleaned the knife off, and then lay down to die. The reason for this was that they had a spiraling number of homicides and prosecutors were completely uninterested in a case where there were zero leads as to who had actually killed him (probably someone following him home from the club). They even interviewed coworkers and tried to get them to say he was depressed. What's the point of assigning blame to the SFPD here? They were clearly just good guys who were under a lot of pressure from higher up the chain and being upset about lovely police work really doesn't solve anything does it?
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Aug 2, 2014 05:15
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Cuntpunch posted:What's the point of assigning blame to the SFPD here? They were clearly just good guys who were under a lot of pressure from higher up the chain and being upset about lovely police work really doesn't solve anything does it? Sarcasm doesn't work well in this thread.
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Aug 2, 2014 05:25
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Cuntpunch posted:What's the point of assigning blame to the SFPD here? They were clearly just good guys who were under a lot of pressure from higher up the chain and being upset about lovely police work really doesn't solve anything does it? What is the point of 'assigning blame' to the SFPD, instead of looking at the reasons why they had motivation to classify homicides as suicides? Considering the SFPD on their own, without any other political system involved, what motivation would they have to rule a homicide as a suicide? They worked harder on the 'suicide' angle then they would have had to on the 'homicide' angle. It's still darkly funny to me that the idea that systemic problems exist appear to enrage people. It's really the exact inverse of the idea that looking at the reasons why drug dealers become drug dealers is being 'soft on crime', and that to fix gang problems what you really should do is just lock 'em all up and throw away the key. And, no being upset about lovely police work really doesn't solve anything.
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Aug 2, 2014 10:47
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But the fact that the police were willing to compromise and go along with this horseshit is exactly the systemic issue?
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Aug 2, 2014 10:57
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Like whoa maybe it says something significant that the police expended virtually no energy resisting this disgusting ploy for the benefit of the people they're sworn to protect and serve.
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Aug 2, 2014 10:59
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Woozy posted:But the fact that the police were willing to compromise and go along with this horseshit is exactly the systemic issue? It's definitely part of the systemic issue, but no, it's not the systemic issue, because, like has been pointed out, there was a shitload of politics involved in homicide stats in San Francisco. Woozy posted:Like whoa maybe it says something significant that the police expended virtually no energy resisting this disgusting ploy for the benefit of the people they're sworn to protect and serve. It says a lot to me. What does it say to you?
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Aug 2, 2014 11:03
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Obdicut posted:It's definitely part of the systemic issue, but no, it's not the systemic issue, because, like has been pointed out, there was a shitload of politics involved in homicide stats in San Francisco. The same thing I said the last time I got probated from these threads and it's the conclusion that incidentally I'm glad to see people are finally reaching on their own: the whole notion of "good cops" and "bad cops" is an idiotic red herring when the police are screened and trained to follow orders above all else regardless. The SFPD story is the same poo poo you see when teary eyed riot cops fire the tear gas anyway: "I promise I'm a good person at home and I love my kids yadda yadda, I apologize in advance for carrying out this act of brutality. What? No I'm not going refuse to do it. Sorry again this is completely out of my hands". Your notion that this can't be explained by the fundamental character of the police is exactly backwards: it can and is directly explained by the sort of person who becomes a cop, namely, a person for whom moral hazard is not a significant obstacle to doing what they are told.
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Aug 2, 2014 11:23
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Woozy posted:The same thing I said the last time I got probated from these threads and it's the conclusion that incidentally I'm glad to see people are finally reaching on their own: the whole notion of "good cops" and "bad cops" is an idiotic red herring when the police are screened and trained to follow orders above all else regardless. That's a weird use of 'red herring', and there's a lot of problems that exist precisely because cops aren't following orders. quote:The SFPD story is the same poo poo you see when teary eyed riot cops fire the tear gas anyway: "I promise I'm a good person at home and I love my kids yadda yadda, I apologize in advance for carrying out this act of brutality. What? No I'm not going refuse to do it. Sorry again this is completely out of my hands". But the problem wasn't one of brutality. And nobody was talking about whether or not the cops were good guys. Why are you talking about brutality and teary-eyed cops in relationship to the SFPD classifying a homicide as a suicide? quote:Your notion that this can't be explained by the fundamental character of the police is exactly backwards: it can and is directly explained by the sort of person who becomes a cop, namely, a person for whom moral hazard is not a significant obstacle to doing what they are told. Even if we granted what you said is true, why is that the kind of person who becomes a cop: what is it about the structure of the system and the job that recruits that person, and how can we change it? How did the 'fundamental character' of the police get to be that way?
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Aug 2, 2014 11:29
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Obdicut posted:Even if we granted what you said is true, why is that the kind of person who becomes a cop: what is it about the structure of the system and the job that recruits that person, and how can we change it? How did the 'fundamental character' of the police get to be that way? Immunity from any and all punishment that matters at all for anything at all, from brutality to outright incompetence to knowingly falsifying information.
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Aug 2, 2014 15:20
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Kitfox88 posted:Immunity from any and all punishment that matters at all for anything at all, from brutality to outright incompetence to knowingly falsifying information. Granting that this immunity exists, how did they get it? As in, if you want that immunity to go away, don't you want to understand how it came to be in the first place? Obdicut fucked around with this message at 15:40 on Aug 2, 2014 |
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Aug 2, 2014 15:22
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Obdicut posted:It's still darkly funny to me that the idea that systemic problems exist appear to enrage people.  "Hey Obdicut, I was savaged by a rabid animal and I'm pretty sure that I need some kind of treatment to not die horribly, can you help?" "Well, you see this is a systemic problem caused by a reservoir of vermin animals due to a confluence of factors relating to urban planning, construction trends, geography, and funding for various agencies responsible for controlling vermin. If we work hard to change architectural standards, reverse current urban planning trends, and maybe do a kickstarter then in a few decades we could stop some of these maulings!" "How is that supposed to help anyone, specifically me, any time soon?" "Stop getting enraged just because I'm pointing out systemic problems!" "Just drive me to the loving hospital, rear end in a top hat."
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Aug 2, 2014 15:33
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LeJackal posted:
Sure, here's some rabies shots. Since the animal is unlikely to be the only rabid one going around, let's check other animals to see if they're rabid. P.s. You really suck at analogies. "We have lots of rabid animals running around, should we figure out why?" "Nah, just give out rabies shots and shoot all the rabid animals you see. Figuring out why things happen is for chumps." Obdicut fucked around with this message at 15:44 on Aug 2, 2014 |
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Aug 2, 2014 15:39
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Obdicut has singlehandedly convinced me that Stalinist purges are the only way to reform the police.
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Aug 2, 2014 15:52
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GROVER CURES HOUSE posted:Obdicut has singlehandedly convinced me that Stalinist purges are the only way to reform the police. That wouldn't work. Seriously, can you explain what is problematic to you about pointing out that the police department isn't an island and that the conditions it operates under is heavily influenced when not outright determined by prosecutors, politicians, etc? Like, what is the actual disconnect or problem here? You think that cops all just decided to be assholes and start the war on drugs on their own?
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Aug 2, 2014 15:55
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Obdicut posted:
No, we can't do anything to address the problem in an sort of immediate or focused way, according to you. Everything has to be diffuse and generational to solve the vast empire of mind control that forces your 'good people cop buddies' to rob, rape, and murder. Obdicut posted:P.s. You really suck at analogies. Not as bad as you suck at being honest, consistent, or empathetic.
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Aug 2, 2014 17:07
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LeJackal posted:No, we can't do anything to address the problem in an sort of immediate or focused way, according to you. This is wrong, though. I've never said we can't do anything to address the problem in an immediate way. This is a fantasy you've constructed. If you think it's true, back it up by quoting something I said that says this. You can't, though, because I didn't say anything like that. quote:Everything has to be diffuse and generational to solve the vast empire of mind control that forces your 'good people cop buddies' to rob, rape, and murder. To solve the problem permanently, yeah. Broad-scale change is needed. If you think these things are worth solving in the short-term, then you should also want to solve them in the long term. quote:Not as bad as you suck at being honest, consistent, or empathetic. Can you show where I've been dishonest, inconsistent, or lacked empathy, please?
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Aug 2, 2014 17:09
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LeJackal posted:vast empire of mind control that forces your 'good people cop buddies' to rob, rape, and murder.
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Aug 2, 2014 17:11
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Obdicut posted:What is the point of 'assigning blame' to the SFPD, instead of looking at the reasons why they had motivation to classify homicides as suicides? Considering the SFPD on their own, without any other political system involved, what motivation would they have to rule a homicide as a suicide? They worked harder on the 'suicide' angle then they would have had to on the 'homicide' angle. Literally "white person who has seen The Wire and thinks it's some sort of huge insight to blame problems on Systems®" .txt. You could not be a more perfect parody of yourself. The cops play a huge role in creating and maintaining the system and people choose to become cops knowing what the system is. This causes a spiral effect where bad cops and bad politics reinforce each other. It's not handed down from above without anyone choosing to do it.
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Aug 2, 2014 18:21
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"What is the point of 'assigning blame' to the murderer, instead of looking at the reasons why they had motivation to commit murder?" - Said no cop ever.
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Aug 2, 2014 18:26
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Obdicut posted:Can you show where I've been dishonest, inconsistent, or lacked empathy, please? Literally this entire thread, mostly because you keep cargo culting the socratic method. Like, you're well into Not Even Wrong territory by now, assuming you've ever argued in good faith.
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Aug 2, 2014 18:44
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