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A STANDARD GP NEARBY (Indianapolis) AND IT'S loving MEMORIAL DAY WEEKEND????????? gently caress you, Wizards. I have plans. Why that weekend?
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Aug 2, 2014 22:26
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Only GP near me is in Atlantic City? And gently caress, of course it's Limited.
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Aug 2, 2014 22:29
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Wait, so, combined with the new PTQQ format, this means all the regional PTQs are also Standard? And that in turn means store PTQQs have no real reason to be anything other than Standard? And Modern, the format they were previously trying to explicitly push for a season is... no longer supported as a format at all, except for a handful of GPs? I... I guess that's one way to deal with prices until they can reprint fetches? May...be?
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Aug 2, 2014 22:49
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edit: Woah, wrong place.
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Aug 2, 2014 22:58
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I've speculated this elsewhere, I reckon modern is on the chopping block due to it getting too close to being as expensive as legacy to get in to for newbies, and there will be a new "modern" using the new border in 3-4 year's time once enough blocks have been released.
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Aug 2, 2014 23:01
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Xaerael posted:I've speculated this elsewhere, I reckon modern is on the chopping block due to it getting too close to being as expensive as legacy to get in to for newbies, and there will be a new "modern" using the new border in 3-4 year's time once enough blocks have been released. Or you know, Wizards could just reprint the poo poo that makes modern expensive. Let's seriously not open this can of worms again.
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Aug 2, 2014 23:03
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Xaerael posted:I've speculated this elsewhere, I reckon modern is on the chopping block due to it getting too close to being as expensive as legacy to get in to for newbies, and there will be a new "modern" using the new border in 3-4 year's time once enough blocks have been released. Except that they have control over Modern prices in a way they don't for Legacy, since almost all competitive Legacy decks have at least one piece on the Reserved List. Also, adding a third non-rotating format would be absurd. Why would Modern go away? Also, introducing a new Modern using M15 border and above would create a giant wasteland for the secondary market from sets between Mirrodin and Journey into Nyx, since the number of desirable cards from those blocks would plummet from hundreds to maybe a few dozen. Like it or not, they do care about these things.
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Aug 2, 2014 23:08
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Xaerael posted:I've speculated this elsewhere, I reckon modern is on the chopping block due to it getting too close to being as expensive as legacy to get in to for newbies, and there will be a new "modern" using the new border in 3-4 year's time once enough blocks have been released. That's insane. I don't know what the modern put thing is about but NA has 4 modern GP's 1 more than last year. Scg is supporting it weekly and signs are everywhere mm2 is coming next summer. Modern is in fine shape.
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Aug 2, 2014 23:09
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Xaerael posted:I've speculated this elsewhere, I reckon modern is on the chopping block due to it getting too close to being as expensive as legacy to get in to for newbies, and there will be a new "modern" using the new border in 3-4 year's time once enough blocks have been released. The whole reason modern was created was so that Wizards had an eternal format they could support with reprints, so I highly doubt they will make yet another one. The only real misstep they've made is that they seem a bit gunshy when it comes to mass reprints. Modern Masters should have gotten a much, much larger print run than it did and it should have included more money cards than it did.
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Aug 2, 2014 23:10
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So the invitational in Somerset also has an Open running that same weekend, correct? Because I took that weekend off to go play Standard and maybe Modern so I'm curious.
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Aug 2, 2014 23:13
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Xaerael posted:I've speculated this elsewhere, I reckon modern is on the chopping block due to it getting too close to being as expensive as legacy to get in to for newbies, and there will be a new "modern" using the new border in 3-4 year's time once enough blocks have been released. My guess is that its simply because Modern doesn't drive pack sales the way Standard does. That's pretty much it, I imagine.
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Aug 2, 2014 23:14
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If they're not willing to print the kind of cards that'd shake up Modern, then giving up Modern PTs was a good idea. Sculpting a format by banlist alone is terrible practice. Similarly, Block sucks. I'm not gonna miss the Block PT, as a spectator. The concern I have is that making Standard the Pro Tour format is going to put the onus on R&D to shake it up with each set, and that's just not going to happen every year. Historically it hasn't even happened most years. OP's writing a big check here; we'll see if R&D can cash it.
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Aug 2, 2014 23:15
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The problem with reprints now is they did the massive fumble that was Modern Masters. They've set a benchmark as to how expensive and rare a booster should be if they were to reprint X,Y and Z cards. Modern Masters should have been a second core set, at regular booster price, and printed till it started clogging shelves. Instead, they made it rare, expensive and in the long run pushed modern card prices up because of it.
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Aug 2, 2014 23:16
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Zonekeeper posted:The whole reason modern was created was so that Wizards had an eternal format they could support with reprints, so I highly doubt they will make yet another one. The only real misstep they've made is that they seem a bit gunshy when it comes to mass reprints. Modern Masters should have gotten a much, much larger print run than it did and it should have included more money cards than it did. I'm sure the next modern masters will be a bigger print run. They were incredibly scared of having another chronicles on their hands, so it's not surprising that they erred too far on limiting its print run. Pro Tours are going to be so boring next year  .
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Aug 2, 2014 23:16
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Ha, thoughtseized right into a Loxodon Smiter and land hand on camera on SCG.
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Aug 2, 2014 23:16
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Ramos posted:Ha, thoughtseized right into a Loxodon Smiter and land hand on camera on SCG. Similar to the time I put in an Obstinate Baloth off of a Liliana +1 in Modern, a format now dead.
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Aug 2, 2014 23:18
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Xaerael posted:The problem with reprints now is they did the massive fumble that was Modern Masters. They've set a benchmark as to how expensive and rare a booster should be if they were to reprint X,Y and Z cards. The msrp pack price had nothing to do with it. Most stores sold for double msrp instantly. That is beyond wizards control. The only way to print t power without price spiked is to print more of it. I expect like quadruple the product for mm2 if not more
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Aug 2, 2014 23:19
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jassi007 posted:The msrp pack price had nothing to do with it. Most stores sold for double msrp instantly. That is beyond wizards control. The only way to print t power without price spiked is to print more of it. I expect like quadruple the product for mm2 if not more I agree with Xaerael, though. Treat it like a core set that gets changed up every year or two and you depress the prices in a predictable way and keep things available. Plus it would support year-round limited - the worst part about MM's low print run was that people didn't get to play its excellent limited format more than once or twice.
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Aug 2, 2014 23:25
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I know I'm screaming into the wind when I say this but Wizards isn't as interested in reprinting cards as players are. They are committed to supporting Modern sure, but that doesn't mean its anywhere near the pace and number of reprints that players always clamor for. Standard is the money maker and Wizards is going to continue to be very cautious with reprints because they don't want to threaten Standards place as the most played format in organized play. If Wizards feels that the recent sales figures reflect the possibility that the player base possibly looking to stay level, or even just grow much much slower than it had in previous years, they will be that much less motivated to pump out Modern Masters 2 or whatever reprint fantasies players always love to discuss.
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Aug 2, 2014 23:29
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Zonekeeper posted:I agree with Xaerael, though. Treat it like a core set that gets changed up every year or two and you depress the prices in a predictable way and keep things available. Plus it would support year-round limited - the worst part about MM's low print run was that people didn't get to play its excellent limited format more than once or twice. The inability to get to play it more than once or twice was seriously the worst thing. I wonder how much the community would poo poo a brick if they released Modern Masters 1.1, a complete reprint of MMA minus the mythics and foil in every booster gimmick at regular MSRP with a bottomless print run. I assume WotC's tendency to err on the side of promises means they'd never do something like that, but I would draft that all day every day.
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Aug 2, 2014 23:35
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Ciprian Maricon posted:Standard is the money maker and Wizards is going to continue to be very cautious with reprints because they don't want to threaten Standards place as the most played format in organized play. If Wizards feels that the recent sales figures reflect the possibility that the player base possibly looking to stay level, or even just grow much much slower than it had in previous years, they will be that much less motivated to pump out Modern Masters 2 or whatever reprint fantasies players always love to discuss. There's at least one guy at my LGS still holding out hope that "they're for sure reprinting Fetches in Khans Block" and I just shake my head and sigh every time he tries to say "it could totally happen" despite the set being done for quite a while now and that in order for them to put Fetches in Standard they need a mechanic to make them feel at home rather than them being tacked on bloat for a set because they need to be reprinted. I'm sure they'll get reprinted at some point but it won't be until the block after Khans at least.
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Aug 2, 2014 23:45
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Well this change will do to modern what chronicles did, potentially, so it's an apt comparison. Especially if all rptqs are standard now too. It's easy to see why they did this. Development has the most influence over standard, it's the most dynamic quarter to quarter, and it drives product sales. Its just kinda a shame. Anyways my buddy Rob is now top 16 at the pro tour and killing it having taken down 3 hall of famers and being undefeated with hexproof in the constructed portion. Killer!
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Aug 2, 2014 23:46
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'Standard is the money maker' is sort of a self-fulfilling prophecy when you put products with (mostly) only Standard-relevant cards in front of players at a rate orders of magnitude higher than product with Modern-relevant cards. I'm certainly not saying Modern (or older formats) would equal or exceed Standard's ability to drive sales even with everything else being equal, but the breakpoint is almost certainly way past what we've seen so far; they're just not putting in any attempts to find out where it might be. Also, keeping Modern (and to a lesser extent Legacy) on the table helps motivate them to keep putting cards in current sets that can find niches or shake up eternal metagames without distorting Standard. Having this sort of pressure on them is a Good Thing. All this being said, if this twists their arm into making Standard itself a more interesting format, I'll appreciate that.
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Aug 2, 2014 23:49
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If MTG Development suddenly stops producing crappy Standard environments like the one we're literally watching the minutes tick down on right now then all-Standard PTs could be fine or even really cool. But it's not likely they can make that happen and if they weren't structuring their tournaments like this it wouldn't be reasonable to expect them to.
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Aug 2, 2014 23:52
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Cernunnos posted:There's at least one guy at my LGS still holding out hope that "they're for sure reprinting Fetches in Khans Block" and I just shake my head and sigh every time he tries to say "it could totally happen" despite the set being done for quite a while now and that in order for them to put Fetches in Standard they need a mechanic to make them feel at home rather than them being tacked on bloat for a set because they need to be reprinted. With Khans being a wedge set, won't we probably be getting trilands like in Alara? Yeah, there's two more sets, but one of them being small would make it unlikely that they'd toss in an entire ten-card land fixing cycle even without the logistical problems of tacking them on at the last minute. Ciprian Maricon posted:Standard is the money maker and Wizards is going to continue to be very cautious with reprints because they don't want to threaten Standards place as the most played format in organized play. I'm not sure it even matters what they print since Wizards has just shown they're willing to say "Standard is now the only format in organized play."
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Aug 2, 2014 23:53
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Lottery of Babylon posted:I'm not sure it even matters what they print since Wizards has just shown they're willing to say "Standard is now the only format in organized play." Well, let's not be excessive here, it's just the Pro Tour. Someone upthread just posted that there are actually more Modern GPs than before. I can actually see an argument for it being more interesting to have Standard be the big spotlight tournaments where pros show up to bring their secret new tech, since it gets shaken up more often and (if the environment is well-designed) there's more room for brewing compared with an environment where you have to ask 'Can it beat Pod and Twin?' right off the bat. Also, everyone, please stop saying fetchlands in Khans would be 'at the last minute.' Part of the entire point is that we're now hitting the point in time (2+ years) when it would have been possible for them to anticipate a spiking demand in fetches and work them into new sets without it being a massive distortion. They may or may not have fetches in Khans but if they don't, it won't be because Maro would have had to run down to the printer waving his hands and yelling "STOP THE PRESSES!" JerryLee fucked around with this message at 23:58 on Aug 2, 2014 |
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Aug 2, 2014 23:55
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From a pure marketing perspective, it's unquestionably a better idea to do Standard PTs exclusively. Practically by definition they'll sell the most cards, and that's what the PT is for. This is what it looks like when the NBA's major source of revenue is the sale of basketballs. I don't think people are going to stop playing Modern, at least not over this. Most of the Modern player base aren't aspiring PT players. If Modern's playerbase shrinks it'll be because the format's no fun or they're getting priced out of it. From an OP perspective the change in PTQs is going to be a way bigger deal than the loss of the annual Modern PT, and even that's not certain.
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Aug 3, 2014 00:01
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JerryLee posted:Also, everyone, please stop saying fetchlands in Khans would be 'at the last minute.' Part of the entire point is that we're now hitting the point in time (2+ years) when it would have been possible for them to anticipate a spiking demand in fetches and work them into new sets without it being a massive distortion. They may or may not have fetches in Khans but if they don't, it won't be because Maro would have had to run down to the printer waving his hands and yelling "STOP THE PRESSES!" It wouldn't be at the last minute in that sense, but the Fetchlands do want to be an environment with certain mechanics that can make use of them. They were a good fit for Zendikar because the entire block was built around land-based abilities like Landfall that cared about them. They're not like shocklands/checklands/most other duals that could live in pretty much any set equally well. Even with two years' notice, if the set wasn't planned to have that sort of mechanics they'd have to choose between not including the fetches, retooling the entire block to suit them better, or having the fetches feel tacked-on even if it wasn't literally a last-minute change.
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Aug 3, 2014 00:03
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A German Ray Lewis fan. That's a new one on me.
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Aug 3, 2014 00:10
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Lottery of Babylon posted:It wouldn't be at the last minute in that sense, but the Fetchlands do want to be an environment with certain mechanics that can make use of them. They were a good fit for Zendikar because the entire block was built around land-based abilities like Landfall that cared about them. They're not like shocklands/checklands/most other duals that could live in pretty much any set equally well. Even with two years' notice, if the set wasn't planned to have that sort of mechanics they'd have to choose between not including the fetches, retooling the entire block to suit them better, or having the fetches feel tacked-on even if it wasn't literally a last-minute change. Well, I don't know why you're assuming that fetchlands couldn't be 'just' the dual land cycle for a block. As you say, many of the rare dual land cycles don't have much to do mechanically with the block they're in, they're just a new twist on dual lands. RtR's didn't, other than being thematically linked to the setting. Innistrad's didn't. SoM's didn't. Shadowmoor's didn't for all practical purposes (they used the hybrid symbol in their text, but it was irrelevant for the 'color matters' or chroma themes). Heck, the Onslaught fetches didn't, which, granted, was in a previous epoch of design, but people were more than happy to play them as 'just' dual lands of a sort.
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Aug 3, 2014 00:11
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I'm not sure how the modern PT being or not being present is the back breaker for Modern that people here and on reddit seem to think. We are getting 2 more Modern GP's in 2015 than 2014, plus the whole TBA limited that has 3 simultaneous GP's on the same weekend, odds are really loving good this is a MM2 Limited GP, plus SCG has made some commitment to it, and may very well expand that in the future.
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Aug 3, 2014 00:12
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JerryLee posted:Well, I don't know why you're assuming that fetchlands couldn't be 'just' the dual land cycle for a block. The other ones don't make you shuffle. R&D's stance on shuffling has changed a lot since Onslaught, and you can see that in Zendikar. There's a lot more stuff in there that justifies the fetchlands mechanically. It's continued to change since then, such that you see cards like Satyr Wayfinder and Sylvan Caryatid where in previous seasons you saw Rampant Growth and Farseek.
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Aug 3, 2014 00:14
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Attorney at Funk posted:The other ones don't make you shuffle. R&D's stance on shuffling has changed a lot since Onslaught, and you can see that in Zendikar. There's a lot more stuff in there that justifies the fetchlands mechanically. It's continued to change since then, such that you see cards like Satyr Wayfinder and Sylvan Caryatid where in previous seasons you saw Rampant Growth and Farseek. Okay, point taken. That's certainly a mark against fetches. I still think the tension between 'print them' and 'shuffling  ' will come out in favor of 'print them' unless they really are just going to shunt Modern off to the side, which, to be clear, I think it's far too early to say whether they're doing.
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Aug 3, 2014 00:18
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What interesting standard brews have there been in the pro tour so far? I managed to see Conley's Stockpile deck in action a bit but I don't have time to go over all the rest of the coverage.
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Aug 3, 2014 00:19
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I think wizards has to be smart enough to not write off modern. #1 gp was Vegas 2 was Richmond and 4 was Boston. Modena masters modern modern. Pets write off a format that popular?
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Aug 3, 2014 00:22
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Just ban fetches in Modern, right? There, I solved it.
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Aug 3, 2014 00:25
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JerryLee posted:Okay, point taken. That's certainly a mark against fetches. Yeah, I agree, I don't think (as some people do) that the shuffling will keep fetches out of Standard ever again. But I do think that if-and-when they return, the environment will accomodate them to the point that it'll be clear that it was designed with them in mind rather than that they were put in to target a specific need (as Thoughtseize was in Theros).
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Aug 3, 2014 00:28
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jassi007 posted:Modena masters modern modern. Pets write off a format that popular? It's important to get to a hospital when you have a stroke. 
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Aug 3, 2014 00:30
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holy poo poo seibold managed to rip 2 mutavaults off of nightveil specter when he was facing down 2 mistcutters
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Aug 3, 2014 00:32
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jassi007 posted:I think wizards has to be smart enough to not write off modern. #1 gp was Vegas 2 was Richmond and 4 was Boston. Modena masters modern modern. Pets write off a format that popular? Honestly I think supporting the Modern player base requires them to do one of two things: 1) Print Modern-redefining cards in every expansion. 2) Keep it off the Pro Tour so pro players aren't periodically trying to break it, which means that they need to use the banlist as the primary tool to keep things fresh. They're plainly not willing to do the first thing, and keeping on like they're doing isn't sustainable either (cycling cards on and off the banlist is just mean to people who are trying to buy into the format). Getting rid of the Modern PT might, perversely, be good for the format. I'm way more worried about Standard. More and more of it is played year-after-year and the format can only periodically handle that kind of scrutiny.
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Aug 3, 2014 00:32
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