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KaneTW posted:T6: nothing special Ah yeah, forgot about the brainjack poo poo. Still, any melee could manage that too. Also, on T7 why use a bard or summoner when most parties have a perfectly good scholar to kite?
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Aug 3, 2014 19:04
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kharaa posted:Ah yeah, forgot about the brainjack poo poo. Still, any melee could manage that too. Also, on T7 why use a bard or summoner when most parties have a perfectly good scholar to kite? SCH wants to be healing and not worrying about renauds usually.
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Aug 3, 2014 19:09
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bonewitch posted:Yeah you shouldn't be losing threat as a mrd once you get overpower unless you're trying to speedrun and running out of tp and your dps is 2 lvl 50 black mages spamming fire II. Hell, as a MRD you can even cross-class invigorate and enjoy spamming overpower forever. Toss out the occasional flash as well (because you did get that from GLD, right?) especially early on because then even if someone pulls something for a few seconds it's less of a risk. Though if you're below level 30 your healer has to be asleep for a non-tank to die to more than 2 mobs really.
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Aug 3, 2014 19:10
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bonewitch posted:SCH wants to be healing and not worrying about renauds usually. There's nothing in going on in T7 early on that a WHM can't handle solo. vv Maybe I'm just weird, because I've never had a problem handling healing, stoning, and renauds all at once, even on a (very, very rare if you eat accuracy food) miss. kojei fucked around with this message at 19:25 on Aug 3, 2014 |
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Aug 3, 2014 19:13
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kharaa posted:Ah yeah, forgot about the brainjack poo poo. Still, any melee could manage that too. Also, on T7 why use a bard or summoner when most parties have a perfectly good scholar to kite? SCH can miss and usually heals and handles stoning.
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Aug 3, 2014 19:13
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Kwyndig posted:From leveling healer and dps roles in the last two weeks I'd say it's a bit of both. There's some really bad new tanks out there right now, but I don't think they're all awful. Warrior is generally pretty easy until 50, when you need to start having a really good working knowledge of how your different cooldowns synergize and when and how to use them effectively and in what priority. Paladin is really kind of awful until Shield Oath and Circle of Scorn.
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Aug 3, 2014 19:24
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KaneTW posted:SCH can miss. Let me tell you about the little dudude that could.
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Aug 3, 2014 19:35
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KaneTW posted:SCH can miss and usually heals and handles stoning. Why not both? The most I used to do was use a single piece of high-accuracy gear and eat Lava Toad Legs, and otherwise just stood in one place with our White Mage for most of the fight while healing / doing stoning duties / rooting new Renauds. All 8 spots can be easily covered by a dps + healer, no matter when in her rotation the Renaud pops. Maybe it's a Sargantanas thing.
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Aug 3, 2014 19:39
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Belzac posted:Let me tell you about the little dudude that could. Dudude doesn't count. Niton posted:Why not both? The most I used to do was use a single piece of high-accuracy gear and eat Lava Toad Legs, and otherwise just stood in one place with our White Mage for most of the fight while healing / doing stoning duties / rooting new Renauds. All 8 spots can be easily covered by a dps + healer, no matter when in her rotation the Renaud pops. I dunno, it's probably possible, we just never had any issues with our SMN doing it so 
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Aug 3, 2014 20:08
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Speaking of tanks, yesterday's low-level roulette in Tam-Tara featured a GLD that almost never Flashed and sometimes completely missed adds before running to the next group. Hate was bouncing a lot and I had to pick up some of the slack on adds so the poor CNJ wouldn't get overwhelmed. We were getting pretty frustrated towards the end of the dungeon, and during the final phase of the boss, the GLD lost hate so the last adds spawned in and went straight for the CNJ. I don't know how he managed to survive but he did and we pulled through. I tried to give the GLD some simple advice after the first couple noticeable mistakes he made (make sure to use Flash at the start of pulls, use your enmity combo, pay more attention to what's around you) but it fell on deaf ears. 
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Aug 3, 2014 20:13
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DizzyBum posted:I tried to give the GLD some simple advice after the first couple noticeable mistakes he made (make sure to use Flash at the start of pulls, use your enmity combo, pay more attention to what's around you) but it fell on deaf ears. That's literally every newbie tank that started playing when they got their PS4. Surprise, they're almost always GLDs.
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Aug 3, 2014 20:15
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DizzyBum posted:I tried to give the GLD some simple advice after the first couple noticeable mistakes he made (make sure to use Flash at the start of pulls, use your enmity combo, pay more attention to what's around you) but it fell on deaf ears. When I first started leveling my conjurer I got a gladiator like that. We tried to give him this same advice and he ignored it, so after the third or fourth time I pulled all but one mob off the tank, the pugilist finally said "gently caress it, I'll tank." That pugilist held hate perfectly through the entire dungeon. Never lost a single mob to me, the other DPS, or the gladiator.
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Aug 3, 2014 20:31
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DizzyBum posted:Speaking of tanks, yesterday's low-level roulette in Tam-Tara featured a GLD that almost never Flashed and sometimes completely missed adds before running to the next group. Hate was bouncing a lot and I had to pick up some of the slack on adds so the poor CNJ wouldn't get overwhelmed. We were getting pretty frustrated towards the end of the dungeon, and during the final phase of the boss, the GLD lost hate so the last adds spawned in and went straight for the CNJ. I don't know how he managed to survive but he did and we pulled through. Oh man that sounds like me yesterday, except my tank at least remembered to use Flash, most of the time.
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Aug 3, 2014 20:52
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Any Malboro goons? Trying to come back to the game, but a buddy of mine doesn't really want to due to a lack of late-game Free companies on the server.
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Aug 3, 2014 23:19
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I'm a terrible tank. Rest assured guys we feel bad about ourselves and if we are silent when you guys give advice is out of shame.
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Aug 3, 2014 23:30
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KillerQueen posted:Any Malboro goons? Trying to come back to the game, but a buddy of mine doesn't really want to due to a lack of late-game Free companies on the server. Just move to excal
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Aug 3, 2014 23:31
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So I recently started playing Marauder as my second class (thaumaturge to 26 for swiftcast doesn't count, cause I hated that poo poo) and today I queued for manor and got the biggest rear end in a top hat black mage in my group. He kept attacking the secondary targets in packs as well as doing anything he could to break threat, all while berating me for not having flash Because if I wasn't a terrible tank I would have flash and he wouldn't be able to pull hate. I tried to get the party to kick him, and they wouldn't, so I bailed right before the last boss (it wasn't my roulette and I had to stop playing right after anyhow, so I didn't care about lockout). Fifteen minutes later I get a tell from a different character about how I'm a terrible player and their party instantly got a new tank after I left. I looked up the charachter on lodestone (because of course they immediately logged off after sending the tell) and it was a level 10 arcanist. So what I gather is this guy is such a dickbag that he's got alts on every server so he can troll people in duty finder dungeons and then harass them afterwords? Duty finder is cross-server right? I mean, I get sperglords and basement goons, but drat that is dedication.
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Aug 4, 2014 00:00
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KillerQueen posted:Any Malboro goons? Trying to come back to the game, but a buddy of mine doesn't really want to due to a lack of late-game Free companies on the server. No, I only smoke the finest Excaliburean cigars.
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Aug 4, 2014 00:23
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Most of my classes are above 25, but I can still shoot an invite if a goon wants in. My bribery isn't time cards but HQ gear and dungeon fun. Omnicrafter privileges  PM me if you want a code.
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Aug 4, 2014 00:29
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SpazmasterX posted:That's literally every newbie tank that started playing when they got their PS4. Surprise, they're almost always GLDs.
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Aug 4, 2014 00:43
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bonewitch posted:unless you're trying to speedrun and running out of tp and your dps is 2 lvl 50 black mages spamming fire II. When I was leveling my GLA sub I actually ran a dungeon where I had two THMs spamming Fire II and I was constantly losing threat, and all I could think was "jesus christ, is this what I've been doing to Paladins this whole time  "
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Aug 4, 2014 01:35
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GEMorris posted:So I recently started playing Marauder as my second class (thaumaturge to 26 for swiftcast doesn't count, cause I hated that poo poo) and today I queued for manor and got the biggest rear end in a top hat black mage in my group. He kept attacking the secondary targets in packs as well as doing anything he could to break threat, all while berating me for not having flash Because if I wasn't a terrible tank I would have flash and he wouldn't be able to pull hate. I tried to get the party to kick him, and they wouldn't, so I bailed right before the last boss (it wasn't my roulette and I had to stop playing right after anyhow, so I didn't care about lockout). Fifteen minutes later I get a tell from a different character about how I'm a terrible player and their party instantly got a new tank after I left. I looked up the charachter on lodestone (because of course they immediately logged off after sending the tell) and it was a level 10 arcanist. You don't necessarily need flash, but you should be overpowering.
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Aug 4, 2014 01:43
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GEMorris posted:Duty finder is cross-server right? Cross-server within the data-centre, yeah. That guy sounds like a special kind of retard.
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Aug 4, 2014 01:47
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Daily Forecast posted:When I was leveling my GLA sub I actually ran a dungeon where I had two THMs spamming Fire II and I was constantly losing threat, and all I could think was "jesus christ, is this what I've been doing to Paladins this whole time It's actually not that awful as long as you cycle targets. You'll lose a mob every now and then before Shield Oath, but if you're careful you do fine. I got the most commendations I've ever been given in the dungeons before you can activate SO.
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Aug 4, 2014 01:49
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Daily Forecast posted:When I was leveling my GLA sub I actually ran a dungeon where I had two THMs spamming Fire II and I was constantly losing threat, and all I could think was "jesus christ, is this what I've been doing to Paladins this whole time Flash sucks compared to overpower at low levels so yeah, it's understandable that you'd be losing emnity. GLD just sucks in general until you get Rage of Halone.
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Aug 4, 2014 02:06
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So what am I supposed to do now that I'm at 41? People have stopped running Fates it seems, except for one or two dudes who solo the ones with big bosses. Not exactly very reliable or fast. I was flying through levels, but now I've basically smashed in to a wall.
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Aug 4, 2014 02:10
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PLD is fun, popping cool downs at just the right time and such and withstanding crazy damage. But yea, sucks below 26. Once you get target switching down it's pretty simple though (which a lot of folks find boring I guess).Robo Reagan posted:So what am I supposed to do now that I'm at 41? People have stopped running Fates it seems, except for one or two dudes who solo the ones with big bosses. Not exactly very reliable or fast. Coerthas and Northern Thanalan for FATES, Duty Roulette, Story missions, side missions, lvlv 45 leves. Danger fucked around with this message at 02:13 on Aug 4, 2014 |
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Aug 4, 2014 02:10
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Danger posted:PLD is fun, popping cool downs at just the right time and such and withstanding crazy damage. But yea, sucks below 26. Once you get target switching down it's pretty simple though (which a lot of folks find boring I guess). I found switching a lot more interesting than mashing overpower ad nauseum, but in general I prefer paladin types over warrior types so liking the style goes a long way I guess.
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Aug 4, 2014 02:12
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Robo Reagan posted:I found switching a lot more interesting than mashing overpower ad nauseum, but in general I prefer paladin types over warrior types so liking the style goes a long way I guess. It's all I've really played honestly and for ability management with the ps4 controller its pretty simple to be competent at.
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Aug 4, 2014 02:16
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Robo Reagan posted:So what am I supposed to do now that I'm at 41? People have stopped running Fates it seems, except for one or two dudes who solo the ones with big bosses. Not exactly very reliable or fast. Low-level/guildhest roulettes everyday, level 45 leves from Mor Dhona. Depending on what job you are (tank/healer) spamming dungeons can be really good xp too. At 44 you get access to Dzmael Darkhold which people will speedrun for xp, about ~40k every few minutes with a good group.
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Aug 4, 2014 02:18
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bonewitch posted:Low-level/guildhest roulettes everyday, level 45 leves from Mor Dhona. Depending on what job you are (tank/healer) spamming dungeons can be really good xp too. Ugh, I was hoping to avoid leves since they're pretty unfun. It's a shame how great the game is then you're basically floundering for the last 10 levels before you can do some more fun poo poo.
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Aug 4, 2014 02:19
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Decided to pick MRD back up, if only because I had gotten super optimistic and had already bought a full set of i90 jewelry and several Soldiery pieces. Sunk cost fallacy, etc. I guess all I gotta do is grind it out to 16 and then ride instant dungeon queues the entire way to 50. Seems like a pretty sweet deal to me. While I was leveling my GLA sub I even managed to score a Foestriker's body piece, which I will totally glamor with because I quite like it a lot. I can't wait to be That Guy who queues for a Trial Roulette and is all "guys I've never tanked this before what do I do "
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Aug 4, 2014 02:49
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KillerQueen posted:Any Malboro goons? Trying to come back to the game, but a buddy of mine doesn't really want to due to a lack of late-game Free companies on the server. I used to be on Malboro. Get the hell out of Malboro and transfer to Excalibur; you won't regret it.
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Aug 4, 2014 02:49
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Daily Forecast posted:I can't wait to be That Guy who queues for a Trial Roulette and is all "guys I've never tanked this before what do I do You'll be okay. I've been dicking about with MRD/WAR and I'm shite at video games and I've been doing alright. Only things you gotta remember is when's appropriate to stun an AOE/spell and positioning on things like Aiatar.
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Aug 4, 2014 03:06
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Daily Forecast posted:I can't wait to be That Guy who queues for a Trial Roulette and is all "guys I've never tanked this before what do I do Far better that, than to be That Guy who queues for a roulette, would say that if he spoke, but didn't actually bother telling the group that he's new. At least if you're up-front from the get-go that you're unfamiliar, then a. you're more likely to get helpful explanations and b. you're more likely to get understanding if you gently caress up. General advice to baby tanks in this thread: if you're not already familiar with those aggro bars (the ones next to each player's icon in the party list, when you're targeting a mob; not the list of enemies that should hopefully all have red squares next to their name), become familiar with it. It is crazy useful for prioritizing what you should be hitting. Tab around fairly constantly and make sure your aggro bar is nice and full compared to everyone else's, on each mob, and pick your targets to hit based on which mob is closest to going after someone else. Remember: your goal is to keep everything pissed at you, while a. not dying (dodge AoEs, pop cooldowns) and b. not moving/spinning the mobs around any more than you have to. (If you don't appreciate the benefits of that last point, play a dragoon or to a lesser extent a monk in dungeons for a while. You'll see what I mean.) A very distant secondary concern is helping actually kill things by focusing down the targets in whatever order you want them dead. If you want that to be your primary concern, play a DPS. But as a tank, it's helpful, but it's not your main priority by any stretch.
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Aug 4, 2014 05:21
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Vil posted:Far better that, than to be That Guy who queues for a roulette, would say that if he spoke, but didn't actually bother telling the group that he's new. I'm a completely new MMO player, FF14 is actually my first MMO game. I think I made the mistake of picking Gladiator as my first character, because I did not realize just how difficult tanking can be. Can you explain the move Provoke and how best I should use it? From what I understand, it doesn't seem to work like one would think a move like Provoke would work.
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Aug 4, 2014 06:24
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General Morden posted:Can you explain the move Provoke and how best I should use it? From what I understand, it doesn't seem to work like one would think a move like Provoke would work. In short, Provoke sets your hate level to the highest person's hate level plus one. So, if the mob is already on you, it won't do anything. If the mob is on a Black Mage that went apeshit on a mob you haven't even looked at, you'll gain all that hate the Black Mage generated. Note that this doesn't preclude the mob from just turning right back around if you don't hit them right after.
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Aug 4, 2014 06:30
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What Kyrosiris said - what you're going to want to do is use Provoke and Shield Lob (or Provoke and Flash) when a DPS pulls aggro, so you immediately get a spike in enmity after Provoke goes off.
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Aug 4, 2014 06:36
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General Morden posted:I'm a completely new MMO player, FF14 is actually my first MMO game. I think I made the mistake of picking Gladiator as my first character, because I did not realize just how difficult tanking can be. Good for you on sticking with tanking despite lack of familiarity with MMOs! Again, just be communicative and people will be much more likely to give helpful advice instead of being nasty jerks. (NB: "much more likely" does not mean "guaranteed". Some people will just always be nasty jerks. But most are pretty reasonable if there are open lines of communication.) Anyway. Provoke. First off, what it does is this: it sets your threat on that mob to (threat of whoever's got the most threat on it) + 1. So it's goddamn useless if you're the one with the most threat on it. You use it in situations where someone else pisses off the mob more than you do and it goes running off in their direction (or it's about to). You also want to follow that up with something that generates real threat because a whole 1-point threat lead is so not going to last. A common combination is Provoke -> Shield Lob, if the mob's running away, or Provoke -> Flash or Provoke -> [insert whatever's next in your single-target 1-2-3 threat combo] if it's still near you. Second, it's helpful to know that it's not on the GCD, so you can use it in between other moves without taking up a "turn", as it were. Similar to Rampart, or Fight or Flight. So in that Provoke/Shield Lob combo I just mentioned, you can do them very close to back-to-back, rather than with 2.5 seconds in between them. Of course, all of this is assuming the mob gets away from you in the first place. Ideally, this isn't going to happen. But sometimes it does, for whatever reason, and Provoke is the tool to fix that (to some degree) on one mob every 40 seconds.
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Aug 4, 2014 06:39
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As a further side-note, the nature of Provoke means that it is more or less a terrible move to start pulling mobs with. Since naturally, nobody having hate on it means that you have 1 point of hate on it and that's all. The only exception is if you need its range, since it's longer than Shield Lob or Tomahawk. There are a few places where its range is useful - Amdapor Keep is the only one off the top of my head, since it can be useful to pull the Succubi from range. pretty sure Amdapor Keep isn't relevant anymore, though.
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