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axelsoar posted:Counterpoint, as someone ELSE who has actually played the game, all the weird dice tricks are distracting, take up time, charm space, and are boring as hell. Could not even finish the combat, way too tedious.
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Aug 3, 2014 20:19
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Lymond posted:Are characters with low Dexterity viable—by which I mean, do they not get stomped on by a dude with the same Ability rating and Dex 5—and is there any point to high Strength besides making a grappling monster? The one Dex 2 char is a grappler (Bear), Dex 5 is a Snake Style Fighter, Dex 3 is Hammer & Turtle style  We had two mortal fights, where one of the fighters (Bear) had Str 5, Dex 2, Sta 5 (Parry 4, normal light weapon, medium armor), the enemy (Snake) Str 1, Dex 5, Sta 1 (Parry 7, normal medium weapon, normal medium armor) respective (Turtle) Str 3, Dex 3, Sta 5 (Parry 6, normal medium weapon, normal heavy armor). The fight against the Snake was easier by alot. He was hitting good but got seldom enough successes to get alot of initiative. On the other side, a single hit from Bear was enough to get several points of initiative. Bear didnt even need to get many successes from that setup. After accruing 19 Ini, I tried to grapple with Bear. Which was pretty hard, as I realised. First was a hit needed with (as it seems), the same dice pool for decisive attacks. Here I lucked out and managed to barely hit Snake (8 successes with 8 dice). Now Bear had Snake and the control test came (11 dice against 6). And bad luck, had only 1 round for the grapple. So didn't waste time and made a decisive attack against Parry 0 (probably the reason that the first role to initiate the grapple has the same dice pool) and landed 7 successes, instantly ending the fight. Both participants were happy how the fight went, if Snake had gotten a little better rolls Bear would have taken a harder time. What was really showing was, that it is pretty hard with neglecting Sta and Str to get a fight going, at least as mortals. The next fight Bear and Turtle fought, which went pretty bad for Bear soon. Soon realised, even with one Parry less, that the enormous soak of Turtle coupled with a little higher damage was turning the fight against me. Bear had the better start with Initiative, but was losing ground against turtle without seeing a good chance to get more Initiave. So Bear tried, what went successful in the first fight and grappled Turtle. Needed two tries to get the target. After that Bear had a little more time with the grapple, but needed to act soon, as Turtle was stealing Rounds from him with the attacks. Thankfully Bear got pretty successful with the damage roll and took 6 levels from Turtle. I was pretty happy at that moment, Turtle was sitting at -4 dice, Parry was a lot easier to hit now, so after the final grapple attack and releasing Turtle I thought I got that fight. But alas, Turtle crashed Bear with the next attack, pulled in front with the initiave, started in the next round a decisive attack and finished Bear with a single hit. It was nice to see, that a pretty even spread from Turtle functioned well enough, especially in regards that turtle had the better equipment. High strength is pretty useful against characters like Turtle with huge amounts of soak, because even with the Overwhelming keyword you will likely need several rounds building up initiative and the longer a fight goes the chances go up for a lucky roll to appear, where you dont want to see it. This may change with the more powerful charms, but we were playing starting characters. Nessus posted:That sounds a little peculiar, can you elaborate? I'm guessing you mean the combat guy had an easier time and did more, given his investment, but the gap was not so great that everyone else was just screening him from minions? We were fighting mostly against each other in 1 vs 1 or 2 vs 1. A combat geared character is looking frightfully strong in a duel. But the other characters werent pushovers either. We had a mortal fight with Turtle and Snake against McCheese as Mortals. McCheese had Str 5, Dex 5, Sta 2, Wits 5 and Awareness 5. McCheese was fighting with the 2. Edition paradigm in mind with a heavy weapon and armor. We expected an easy time for McCheese. Or at least pretty equal. But fight was over after two or three rounds, the advantage in numbers surprised us greatly. Added to that the pretty small attack pool from McCheese (only 11 dice), with only average rolls sealed the deal. The other fight, that was pretty surprising was Snake VS Turtle as Solars. It was the first fight of the evening with charms, artifacts and motes. Turtle was now using artifact versions of his equipment, Snake lost its armor, but was still using a medium artifact weapon. Snake, who had seen the fight Bear VS Turtle had not much hope and expected the fight to lose pretty quickly. It was pretty clear from the numbers, that Turtle was going to win this in our minds. This fight was the longest of the evening to the surprise of everyone sitting at the table. First both fighters started conservative with their mote pools and only spend small amounts on the attack. When one of the fighters was forced to reinforce his defence with an Excellency the fighter cut back on the offence. This went on for some rounds, no fighter gaining a clear advantage over the other. After that all hell broke loose. Both fighters geared up, were spending 10-13 motes on offence and defence. The fighter went through the motes really fast, equally through their willpower and Snake pulled ahead with the Initiative, crashing Turtle and standing somewhere around 12 or such Ini. Then the tables turned, Turtle got one good roll and vanquished every advantage that snake had with a single massive hit. Both fighters were now at Initiative 3 and we got our first clash attack of the evening. Turtle won that with a single success (got back two dice, because of equal Initiative vs Snake form). Turtle now had a good Initiative and went for the kill. But fell short. On the counter attack Snake managed to put some wounds on Turtle and both fighters went to their respective starting positions. After several more rounds, it became clear that Snake would lose, but only after a long drawn-out battle and both fighters settled on a draw. The fight was from a spectator PoV pretty intense and in normal game the fight would have been shorter, as Snake would have escaped against Turtle pretty soon. Only in the white room of our test Snake stayed to dunk it out. Then came the last fight of the evening Bear and Turtle against McCheese, we wanted to see if being a Solar may had turned the tables for McCheese, but alas, this didn't happen. McCheese got a good deal of wounds on turtle (which in itself was impressive), but lost in the end. What we didn't test was McCheese against one single enemy. I would have liked to test it, but as we were three persons the opportunity didn't present itself (Turtle and Snake didnt want to try alone  ). We will play again in two weeks probably, I hope to playtest some more. But the Wyld Hunt should be a lot scarier now, even for combat Solars, given the numerical advantage.If interested, I can give more details to the characters (what charms, etc). Hope it wasnt too boring and you could get some useful information out of it.
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Aug 3, 2014 20:48
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That lines up with my own experiences, as well. Numbers advantage is a BIG loving DEAL in EX3. Like a huge huge huge HUGE deal. Don't fight outnumbered ever, cheat if you have to to force the 1v1. The other thing that's worth noting and emphasizing is that Awareness is mondo strong when you're using Essence. A guy with AWE 5 Wits 5 who uses a full excellency and Sensory Acuity Prana is gonna be in a great position to pull off some samurai 'single stroke battle' stuff, and I have the suspicion it's always the optimal move to open a fight by maxing that roll out, paying whatever it takes for it.
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Aug 3, 2014 21:25
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For anyone giving their opinion on combat, I think you should try out both small numbers of combatants and large numbers. Battles go very differently when there are between 2 - 4 people fighting and when there are 6 - 10.
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Aug 3, 2014 21:37
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I've also been thinking that a regular old Awareness excellency is probably a really strong opening play, and that it's no coincidence that regular old "your Awareness roll is better" Charms are really thin on the ground in the early Awareness tree and really expensive when they do show up.
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Aug 3, 2014 22:03
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Thats what McCheese did in the second fight against the two other solars, but he didn't get enough Initiative for an Alpha Strike, so made a first attack gaining 16 points of Initiative (my mistake, wanted to conserve motes). When McCheese was attacked, he made a Counterattack and putting the hurt on Turtle. Still wasn't enough for him to turn the fight. Lesson learned, don't let someone with a a big daiklave hammer you into the ground with a big attack (+10 dice, excellent strike, hungry tiger) without putting up resistance. Don't fight 1 VS 2 
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Aug 3, 2014 23:40
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Has any information emerged about 3E's mass combat mechanics, if any? All my group's campaigns get to military-scale conflicts at some point.
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Aug 4, 2014 01:52
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zeal posted:Has any information emerged about 3E's mass combat mechanics, if any? All my group's campaigns get to military-scale conflicts at some point. Here are some notes from Holden: "We are making good head way on Mass Combat. War Excellencies are going through their third final play testing and after that it will go to editing. Bureaucracy Charms are in a final draft phase and are ready. War Charms are done and are ready to go. Play testing continues at a good pace." Hope this helps! The above is both sarcastic and fake.
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Aug 4, 2014 02:50
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zeal posted:Has any information emerged about 3E's mass combat mechanics, if any? All my group's campaigns get to military-scale conflicts at some point. There's rules for armies (aka "battle groups") and for "strategic combat" in the leaked rules. I liked the rules for battle groups, and thought they were intuitive and balanced, but a friend of mine thought the group's Size shouldn't add to soak, and they were boring to fight otherwise. Haven't even read the strategic combat rules.
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Aug 4, 2014 06:28
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Finally, the thread title properly represents Exalted. Who wants to bet the writing's gonna keep this direction going forward?
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Aug 4, 2014 07:33
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Transient People posted:Finally, the thread title properly represents Exalted. Who wants to bet the writing's gonna keep this direction going forward? Bad news, Plutonis' Discount Ghostfuck Warehouse was only temporary.
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Aug 4, 2014 07:35
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Ettin posted:Bad news, Plutonis' Discount Ghostfuck Warehouse was only temporary. And yet, the question still stands. Amazing, isn't it?
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Aug 4, 2014 07:36
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Ettin posted:Bad news, Plutonis' Discount Ghostfuck Warehouse was only temporary. 
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Aug 4, 2014 17:27
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Ettin posted:Bad news, Plutonis' Discount Ghostfuck Warehouse was only temporary. As soon as I finish reading grappling rules Imma suplex you.
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Aug 4, 2014 17:29
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Calde posted:It's not all that surprising. The one that got me was during the Kickstarter. He shared the big reason for adding Exigents in 3E was that he couldn't see how to differentiate antagonists except by their splat-type and superpowers, so he felt a need to add more of each. I think they only feel that way because they've been involved with and playing the game for several years straight. The existing splats and enemy types, when combined with the variety of terrain in Creation and the other planes and the options that social combat brings allow for nigh-infinite possibilities. I don't really think we need MORE types because the old ones are "getting stale."
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Aug 4, 2014 19:30
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I think the best reasoning for including new exalt types is "they are cool, shut up nerd" I don't want to buy the same books with the same exalts 3 times, ditch Lunars while you are at it.
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Aug 4, 2014 20:14
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NaanViolence posted:I think they only feel that way because they've been involved with and playing the game for several years straight. The existing splats and enemy types, when combined with the variety of terrain in Creation and the other planes and the options that social combat brings allow for nigh-infinite possibilities. I don't really think we need MORE types because the old ones are "getting stale."
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Aug 4, 2014 20:51
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I dunno about the necessity of Liminals on the setting but Exigents are incredibly kick-rear end and have nigh-infinite potential for character-making.
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Aug 4, 2014 21:00
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Aren't Liminals sort of like the PCs from Prometheus? Frankenstein things trying to find a purpose (I guess sans the part where everyone hates them).
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Aug 4, 2014 21:19
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I think we all had at least one Exalted type we don't care about (mine is Abyssals), so the introduction of some more shouldn't hurt as long as they all have a unique playstyle.
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Aug 4, 2014 21:20
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I'm just waiting to play my custom dirty bomb Exalt that is somehow strongerer than all the other Exalts because.
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Aug 4, 2014 21:24
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Covok posted:Aren't Liminals sort of like the PCs from Prometheus? Frankenstein things trying to find a purpose (I guess sans the part where everyone hates them). They are robots played by Michael Fass Bender?
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Aug 4, 2014 21:25
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Covok posted:Aren't Liminals sort of like the PCs from Prometheus? Frankenstein things trying to find a purpose (I guess sans the part where everyone hates them).
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Aug 4, 2014 22:12
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Rand Brittain posted:I think we all had at least one Exalted type we don't care about (mine is Abyssals), so the introduction of some more shouldn't hurt as long as they all have a unique playstyle. For sure. I can't remember what the ones I hate are called. They're the ones that aren't sweet robots, don't live a rad life inside a dying robot god, and aren't made of magic metal. Those guys suck.
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Aug 4, 2014 22:43
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theironjef posted:For sure. I can't remember what the ones I hate are called. They're the ones that aren't sweet robots, don't live a rad life inside a dying robot god, and aren't made of magic metal. Those guys suck.
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Aug 4, 2014 22:45
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Nessus posted:Way to Jade Caste-shame. Though I guess if they were cool and attractive people, like A Thing That Is Strong And Also Bad, hero of the people of Zngylf, they would have chosen freely to be Exalted by the will of the Maker in a caste that was actually cool. Right, sorry. Magical Materials, potentially including Adamant but excluding Gossamer and Verdigris. Jade Castes also rule. It's those other guys I can't handle.
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Aug 4, 2014 23:47
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Jade is a Magical Material though.
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Aug 4, 2014 23:53
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Stallion Cabana posted:Jade is a Magical Material though. The problem was he said magic metals in the first post, jade is a rock. mineral. crystal. gently caress, I dunno, someone ask Geop.
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Aug 5, 2014 00:01
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the joke is that theironjef only likes alchemicals
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Aug 5, 2014 00:03
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zeal posted:the joke is that theironjef only likes alchemicals The joke is that other people like the other exalt types.
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Aug 5, 2014 00:07
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zeal posted:the joke is that theironjef only likes alchemicals I get this. I was referring to saying Jade isn't a Magical Material/Metal. I mean most depictions of Jade it looks fairly metal to me. It could just be because of the whole 'putting jade dust into Daiklaves instead of making them out of jade' but they don't generally look like...crystal like.
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Aug 5, 2014 00:07
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axelsoar posted:The joke is that other people like the other exalt types. Alchemicals are all right in that they have a full two castes that mimic the one true exalt type, the Sidereals.
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Aug 5, 2014 00:12
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zeal posted:Alchemicals are all right in that they have a full two castes that mimic the one true exalt type, the Sidereals. By the yard stick of being the most martial artsy of the exalt types, yeah, and Exalted is 85% martial arts by this point if the trend is holding up.
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Aug 5, 2014 00:25
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All Exalted are equally sucky, except for Dragonbloods, who are suckier than most.
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Aug 5, 2014 01:02
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TheLovablePlutonis posted:All Exalted are equally sucky, except for At least the DBs got mechanics to support their whole 'teamwork makes us stronger' gimmick.
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Aug 5, 2014 02:34
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I like all the Exalt types. But I see no real purpose for Liminals and Getimians.
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Aug 5, 2014 03:15
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MiltonSlavemasta posted:I like all the Exalt types. to make the abyssals and sidereals suck less idk
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Aug 5, 2014 03:38
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axelsoar posted:The problem was he said magic metals in the first post, jade is a rock. mineral. crystal. gently caress, I dunno, someone ask Geop. Isn't jade a metal in the exalted setting?
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Aug 5, 2014 04:29
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hangedman1984 posted:Isn't jade a metal in the exalted setting?
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Aug 5, 2014 05:21
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Or, more importantly, they shape it into the rough-hewn image of a rad dude, a dude who is bad enough to save the populat.
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Aug 5, 2014 05:55
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