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I really will never understand why people get so torn up over characters in completely different worlds not having pure, Anglo-Saxon names.
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Aug 4, 2014 22:05
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Oh Snapple! posted:I really will never understand why people get so torn up over characters in completely different worlds not having pure, Anglo-Saxon names. It's less "they need to be Anglo Saxon names!" And more that naming conventions in fantasy tends to be terrible. Tolkien did it because he created whole new languages. If fantasy authors even go that far their languages are actually ciphers for English, and even if they don't they usually ignore how things are named. We don't come up with flowery and poetic names, we come up with names that get used in everyday speaking. Hence why it's the "Grand Canyon" and not some long multi apostrophe glottal stop bullshit. It's big and it's a canyon, what more do you want? Names of people tend to be short, or they have shortened familiar names because again, nobody has time to recite a full listing of heroic deeds battles won and titles earned. He's John, his son is Johnson, not "Flowing Water Of The Mists" and "Dancer of the Cardinal Star". Or "Mohammed" is shortened to "Mo" or another nickname. And with villains, man, what the poo poo. Same deal there, no one remembers Edward Teach, they remember "Blackbeard". Why was he called Blackbeard? Because he had a big black beard. So your villain covered in scars should be "Scarface" not "V'llan S'ew" Then beyond the world building is that most readers don't even bother struggling to figure out how to pronounce "M'arys'ue", they start parsing the text using the name as a placeholder to know it refers to the protagonist. Much less try and figure out "woah I wonder what the deeper meaning of giving them that name is and trying to dream up the background that your editor cut" Fantasy names are largely loving stupid.
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Aug 4, 2014 22:33
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When they're good they're really good, though. I always thought LeGuin was great at short, simple names that still evoked a sense of history and power.
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Aug 4, 2014 22:35
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Err apparently The Magician's Land is out tomorrow but I can't find a kindle edition on Amazon UK or US, is it just not going to happen?
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Aug 4, 2014 22:43
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"Cheradenine Zakalwe" is a good name for a cool dude 
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Aug 4, 2014 22:59
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Fried Chicken posted:Fantasy names are largely loving stupid. I remember browsing the fantasy section of a bookstore in the 80s and I swear I saw a character with four apostrophes in his name. I don't mind weird names as long as they're pronounceable without having to rip my own tongue out.
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Aug 4, 2014 23:23
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General Battuta posted:When they're good they're really good, though. I always thought LeGuin was great at short, simple names that still evoked a sense of history and power. I just read The Dispossessed, so this was funny to me (names chosen randomly by computer!)
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Aug 4, 2014 23:36
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ed balls balls man posted:Err apparently The Magician's Land is out tomorrow but I can't find a kindle edition on Amazon UK or US, is it just not going to happen? I preordered it ages ago, and as far as I can tell it's still in the store.
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Aug 4, 2014 23:41
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ed balls balls man posted:Err apparently The Magician's Land is out tomorrow but I can't find a kindle edition on Amazon UK or US, is it just not going to happen? It's the No. 1 seller in the Kindle Fantasy Store on Amazon US -- here (more specifically here). Having just done a quick re-read of the first two Magicians books, I am beyond excited for this third book (even after a back to back read highlighted the shortcomings of the second book compared to the first). I'm optimistic that Grossman will conclude everything in an entirely satisfactory way. McCoy Pauley fucked around with this message at 23:57 on Aug 4, 2014 |
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Aug 4, 2014 23:54
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Not sure if I missed it or not, but has anyone finished Anthony Ryan's second book that was recently released? It doesn't seem to be getting as many favorable user reviews on Amazon compared to the first Blood Song, and from my understanding he had finished it while self publishing as well. Was hoping to hear a goon's thoughts on it.
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Aug 5, 2014 00:16
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Robot Danger posted:Not sure if I missed it or not, but has anyone finished Anthony Ryan's second book that was recently released? It doesn't seem to be getting as many favorable user reviews on Amazon compared to the first Blood Song, and from my understanding he had finished it while self publishing as well. Was hoping to hear a goon's thoughts on it. Look through the last five pages or so. I've read it yesterday. Thought it was as good as the first one, just slightly different.
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Aug 5, 2014 00:36
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Megazver posted:Look through the last five pages or so. I've got some more detailed thoughts in those previous 5 pages, but this is the summary of my thoughts as well. I definitely recommend it if you liked Blood Song.
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Aug 5, 2014 00:38
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coyo7e posted:At face value, "Legolas" is at least as generic fantasy bullshit as "Kalak". Well actually Legolas means Green Leaves in the Sindarin language, from laeg meaning green and go-lass meaning collection of leaves. 
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Aug 5, 2014 01:08
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Those of you who have browsed the Malazan thread will remember when there was a huge bitch-fest about one of the characters being named just 'Kyle'. I think the moral of the story is that the internet will complain about anything.
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Aug 5, 2014 01:15
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So I finished Blindsight. My God. Going to local bookstore to preorder the next one, looking where I can get Starfish etc. Any other good space horror? I know this has probably been answered a thousand times, so just skip Alastair Reynolds, I'm getting to him. thehomemaster fucked around with this message at 01:25 on Aug 5, 2014 |
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Aug 5, 2014 01:22
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thehomemaster posted:Any other good space horror? Most people in the thread usually recommend Ship of Fools by Richard Paul Russo and Hull Zero Three by Greg Bear.
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Aug 5, 2014 01:24
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Yeah, I read Tower Lord this weekend, it was decent. More of an ensemble cast though instead of being single character POV which didn't match my expectations. I was fine with it but I can see how some people would be disappointed. Overall I don't think it was as good as Blood Song but I still liked it and I'm looking forward to the next one.
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Aug 5, 2014 02:02
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thehomemaster posted:So I finished Blindsight. My God. Good news, while Maelstrom (rifters 2) has always been ebook, the others weren't (though you could download them from his site). All that changes soon, with both parts of Behemoth coming out as ebooks on the 26th and Starfish coming out in September. Why they re-released 3 before 1 I have no idea, but the point is you can get them in ebook form and see him get paid!
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Aug 5, 2014 03:03
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ed balls balls man posted:Err apparently The Magician's Land is out tomorrow but I can't find a kindle edition on Amazon UK or US, is it just not going to happen? McCoy Pauley posted:It's the No. 1 seller in the Kindle Fantasy Store on Amazon US -- here (more specifically here). The Magician's Land! gently caress yeah! Let's do this!  I was going to make a thread for its impending release but I figured there aren't many hardcore fans here so I didn't bother. The first book is one of my favourite fantasy books of all time. It's such an intelligent deconstruction of the genre, as well as one of the only books to deal with "what if the hero of a fantasy book happened to have severe serotonin uptake issues?" — which results in 90% of readers saying "God, Quentin is such a whiner! This book sucks!" gently caress each and every critic. The Magicians has such a special place in my heart. I, too, didn't enjoy the second book as much, but my re-listen on audio is changing my opinion*. I'm enjoying it much more the second time, especially because I know there's more right around the corner. I can't loving wait for the final book. And the reviews are loving great for the new book! Every outlet is saying it's the best book of the trilogy, and that Quentin has finally grown up, and that Grossman ties it all together perfectly by the end. I'd link them but you can find tons by just googling "magician's land review". They've all been published in the last week or so. My advice: don't read the NY Times review. It drops some pretty big spoilers for the new book. As for publishing: The final book doesn't seem to be being published in the UK/Australia/etc at all. Random House UK published books 1 and 2 in those territories, and their websites still don't list the new one. I have no idea why. Bookstores here (Australia) are just going to stock the US edition, it seems. Anyway, I ordered the hardcover boxset from the US, which will take an extra couple of weeks to arrive, so I'll be jonesing for the final book, but oh well. It's worth it. The US editions are superior anyway, because they have maps. ------ * With one exception. Let me copy/paste from my Reddit post: I was enjoying Mark Bramhall's narration of The Magician King so much. He did the first book brilliantly, giving every character a unique voice and imbuing the narrative with so much empathy and emotion. It's my favourite audiobook ever. The audio version of the sequel was going just as well, making me fall in love with the book again and getting me hyped up for The Magician's Land. Then, Poppy was introduced. Poppy, as we all know, is Australian. Mark Bramhall is American. He tries, he really does. But it's the worst, most ridiculous Australian accent I've ever heard attempted. I just can't take any scene with Poppy in it seriously now. I'm dreading every line of dialogue she gets.  I wish, I really really wish they'd given Bramhall some proper dialogue coaching for this book. But I guess that sort of thing isn't in the budget for audiobook productions. Sigh.
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Aug 5, 2014 03:24
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syphon posted:Those of you who have browsed the Malazan thread will remember when there was a huge bitch-fest about one of the characters being named just 'Kyle'. I think the moral of the story is that the internet will complain about anything. Back in the old usenet days, one of the complaints about the Thomas Covenant books (besides basically 'everything else') was the inclusion of a character in the backstory named "Kevin'.
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Aug 5, 2014 04:05
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fookolt posted:"Cheradenine Zakalwe" is a good name for a cool dude Banks comes up - er, came up  - with brilliant non-Earth names, and for the long ones there was always a short moniker available, like Dizzy or Sma.
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Aug 5, 2014 06:34
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Fried Chicken posted:It's less "they need to be Anglo Saxon names!" And more that naming conventions in fantasy tends to be terrible. Tolkien did it because he created whole new languages. If fantasy authors even go that far their languages are actually ciphers for English, and even if they don't they usually ignore how things are named. We don't come up with flowery and poetic names, we come up with names that get used in everyday speaking. Hence why it's the "Grand Canyon" and not some long multi apostrophe glottal stop bullshit. It's big and it's a canyon, what more do you want? Names of people tend to be short, or they have shortened familiar names because again, nobody has time to recite a full listing of heroic deeds battles won and titles earned. He's John, his son is Johnson, not "Flowing Water Of The Mists" and "Dancer of the Cardinal Star". Or "Mohammed" is shortened to "Mo" or another nickname. And with villains, man, what the poo poo. Same deal there, no one remembers Edward Teach, they remember "Blackbeard". Why was he called Blackbeard? Because he had a big black beard. So your villain covered in scars should be "Scarface" not "V'llan S'ew" This is a very good point and never something that I could quite articulate, but certainly thought. I wish more genrefic writers actually tried to speak what they write out loud so that they could realize how terrible/inane some of the names they come up with are.
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Aug 5, 2014 07:24
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As far as fantasy naming conventions in general go, I'm partial to the ol' "steal words from furriners" approach. That way you can make things sound exotic (just pick a language that isn't widely-spoken/known in your country) while guaranteeing that they are things that real people can/would actually say. coyo7e posted:Should Kalak ought to have been named "bill" or something? 'Kalak' is alright as fantasy names go because it is one that you can say out loud without feeling like you're speaking tongues at Revival. PupsOfWar fucked around with this message at 09:18 on Aug 5, 2014 |
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Aug 5, 2014 08:58
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Antti posted:Banks comes up - er, came up Still not as good as his ship names like for instance "Mistake not .....".
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Aug 5, 2014 09:08
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PupsOfWar posted:As far as fantasy naming conventions in general go, I'm partial to the ol' "steal words from furriners" approach. That way you can make things sound exotic (just pick a language that isn't widely-spoken/known in your country) while guaranteeing that they are things that real people can/would actually say. While I like that route because it also lets you get a consistent feel for your names, I feel like it also needs to carry over some of the culture, otherwise it feels weirder than just plane cat-on-keyboard fantasy names. Like I think it would feel very strange indeed if, idk, a book had Hanako Tamura striding into Ye Olde Tavern and ordering a flagon of ale and a steak and kidney pie from her favourite barkeep, Yuuto Morimoto.
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Aug 5, 2014 09:26
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Fried Chicken posted:Good news, while Maelstrom (rifters 2) has always been ebook, the others weren't (though you could download them from his site). All that changes soon, with both parts of Behemoth coming out as ebooks on the 26th and Starfish coming out in September. Thanks for the tip! In unrelated news Sabriel by Garth Nix is free on iBooks, with the others at 5 bucks. The prequel is also out. I remember reading Abhorsen years ago and enjoying the world/magic, and the new covers are ace. Might be different now, 10 or so years on.
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Aug 5, 2014 11:01
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thehomemaster posted:In unrelated news Sabriel by Garth Nix is free on iBooks, with the others at 5 bucks. The prequel is also out. I remember reading Abhorsen years ago and enjoying the world/magic, and the new covers are ace. Might be different now, 10 or so years on. I read the Abhorsen series for the first time last year and I think they've held up perfectly. Even if you have misgivings about the YA label they're in a completely different league from the stuff Hollywood is churning into 'properties'. It's exactly the kind of book I'd give to a 12 year old but I recommend them to anyone and everyone.
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Aug 5, 2014 11:39
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Oh, totally agree, Garth Nix is great. Similar to His Dark Materials in terms of quality.
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Aug 5, 2014 11:46
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thehomemaster posted:Oh, totally agree, Garth Nix is great. Similar to His Dark Materials in terms of quality.
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Aug 5, 2014 11:48
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I didn't mean to start a flame war...
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Aug 5, 2014 12:39
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thehomemaster posted:Thanks for the tip! is this a regional thing? it's still 8.99 where I am located (southwestern US)
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Aug 5, 2014 13:58
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Hedrigall posted:The Magician's Land! gently caress yeah! Let's do this! The first book had a thread that went on for a while. I remembering arguing with people in it. If you've got archives (I don't), it might be worth a read.
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Aug 5, 2014 14:22
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I just started GRRMs Rogues collection and it's pretty decent overall. The Scott Lynch and Joe Abercrombie stories were predictably brilliant, and I enjoyed the one set in ancient Tyre and the one with the puppet wizard, though having the random mammoth reminded me of some bizarre scifi short I can't quite place. The only reallY BAD story so far is the one I'm on right now with the movie star with the big head where he tells everything and does 0 showing. How was the Warriors collection?
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Aug 5, 2014 14:46
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I'm looking to get into a new sci-fi series that features expansive worldbuilding and a lengthy story documenting a future history of humanity - something like Revelation Space, or even Foundation. I really like the emphasis on crazy future technology that Revelation Space has, especially 'transhuman' elements. Does the Culture series by Iain M. Banks sound like what I'm looking for? Any suggestions? Thanks!
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Aug 5, 2014 16:02
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my bony fealty posted:Does the Culture series by Iain M. Banks sound like what I'm looking for? Any suggestions? Thanks! If you want something lengthy, maybe look at Peter F Hamilton's Night's Dawn trilogy. They're hard to recommend because they're not "good" but they're really memorable; essentially, humanity split in two when we worked out how to upload our brains into a computer, and the interactions between the Adamists (people who believe death is death and we shouldn't toy with virtual immortality) and the Edenists (folks who upload their brains into their habitats when they die) is interesting and important to the central conflict of the novels... which involves space ghosts using tumors to reshape possessed humans into their former, alive bodies. Plus, once you've read them, you can have a great time getting mad at the ending/all the weird sex with everyone else.
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Aug 5, 2014 16:10
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my bony fealty posted:I'm looking to get into a new sci-fi series that features expansive worldbuilding and a lengthy story documenting a future history of humanity - something like Revelation Space, or even Foundation. I really like the emphasis on crazy future technology that Revelation Space has, especially 'transhuman' elements. Culture is good. Don't start with Consider Phlebas, though. It's just... competent but unlikeable. The Player of Games is a much better starting point.
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Aug 5, 2014 16:12
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my bony fealty posted:I'm looking to get into a new sci-fi series that features expansive worldbuilding and a lengthy story documenting a future history of humanity - something like Revelation Space, or even Foundation. I really like the emphasis on crazy future technology that Revelation Space has, especially 'transhuman' elements. Hannu Rajenami's "The Quantum Thief" trilogy just finshed up. It's a sort of post singularityish scifi with a lot of different takes on post humanism and is just generally awesome. There's a thread about it too!
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Aug 5, 2014 17:30
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Lowly posted:Whoops, been a while since I've been in this thread, but I will answer anyway! The main reason why I preferred The Killing Moon is that I felt the plot was ultimately more interesting and focused and I liked the ending, which gave closure for the main characters, was a logical conclusion to the story and just was satisfying in how it left the characters. Sounds like a good premise not very well told, which is pretty much how I'd describe The Hundred Thousand Kingdoms. my bony fealty posted:I'm looking to get into a new sci-fi series that features expansive worldbuilding and a lengthy story documenting a future history of humanity - something like Revelation Space, or even Foundation. I really like the emphasis on crazy future technology that Revelation Space has, especially 'transhuman' elements. The Culture is good, but you sound like you're after something more like Steven Baxter's "Xeelee" series or maybe Larry Niven's Known Space (if anyone wishes to compalin about this, some other guy posted Night's Dawn first, OK?) Also look up the "future history" entry in the Science Fiction Encyclopaedia. PupsOfWar posted:As far as fantasy naming conventions in general go, I'm partial to the ol' "steal words from furriners" approach. That way you can make things sound exotic (just pick a language that isn't widely-spoken/known in your country) while guaranteeing that they are things that real people can/would actually say. As if most people wouldn't think tones and clicks were more made-up bullshit. Oh, and tell me how to pronounce "q" in Arabic, isiZulu, and Mandarin. Oh Snapple! posted:I really will never understand why people get so torn up over characters in completely different worlds not having pure, Anglo-Saxon names. It totally breaks my immersion when characters don't have proper, everyday names like Hrothgar or Ecgtheow 
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Aug 5, 2014 17:45
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Robot Danger posted:Not sure if I missed it or not, but has anyone finished Anthony Ryan's second book that was recently released? It doesn't seem to be getting as many favorable user reviews on Amazon compared to the first Blood Song, and from my understanding he had finished it while self publishing as well. Was hoping to hear a goon's thoughts on it. I guess I'll be the lone dissenter. I really enjoyed Blood Song, it was derivative but very well executed. Tower Lord I am having issues getting through, I'm roughly halfway along and not feeling it. It's been awhile and I've read a lot of books in between the two which doesn't help. I didn't mind the addition of extra character POVs but I feel kind of inundated with settings, locations and relationships that I'm not sure if I should remember or not. I'm having a hard time pinning down my other complaints at work here but it just doesn't flow as well as Blood Song.
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Aug 5, 2014 17:49
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House Louse posted:The Culture is good, but you sound like you're after something more like Steven Baxter's "Xeelee" series or maybe Larry Niven's Known Space (if anyone wishes to compalin about this, some other guy posted Night's Dawn first, OK?) Also look up the "future history" entry in the Science Fiction Encyclopaedia. I quite liked Olaf Stapledon's "Last and First Men," though in the beginning you have to suffer for a bit through the near future stuff that I found less interesting.
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Aug 5, 2014 17:56
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