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homerlaw posted:I love any and all wedges. This is pretty accurate. Judging by what little we've got all of the clans look really awesome thematically. Generally when there's something like this or the Ravnica guilds or whatever only a couple wind up tickling your fancy, but they nailed it with all five groups in Khans. I'd be open to playing any wedge based on theme alone, so it'll just be a matter of what's actually usable come release.
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Aug 6, 2014 01:53
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i don't even play artifact izzet as i much prefer a scry based deck but come on there's so many good artifact cards in standard right now, thanks to m15
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Aug 6, 2014 01:54
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mick foley forever posted:there's no affinity in standard but darksteel citadel (indestructible artifact land), phyrexian revoker (pithing needle on a body), and scuttling doom machine (6-drop colorless 6/6, upon death it deals 6 damage to creature/player) are some artifacts legal in standard I think we're still missing three, four, and five drops in there, so there is just a small hole that will need some patching up. On the other hand, maybe it's time for Burnished Hart to shine. (Not amazingly likely, but that would be awesome.)
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Aug 6, 2014 01:55
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Ramos posted:I think we're still missing three, four, and five drops in there, so there is just a small hole that will need some patching up. On the other hand, maybe it's time for Burnished Hart to shine. (Not amazingly likely, but that would be awesome.) Maybe in an Aggressive Mining deck? Deck would probably still suck though.
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Aug 6, 2014 01:57
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a dozen swans posted:Maybe in an Aggressive Mining deck? I really have no idea what to do with Aggressive Mining. My best luck so far has been as a one or two of in White Blue Red control where you maximize lands and after a point just start sacrificing them until you're back at a happy point. Plus, Planar Cleansing removes it. edit: There's also synergy with Karametra but fuuuuck, that's just wonky.
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Aug 6, 2014 01:59
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Ramos posted:I think we're still missing three, four, and five drops in there, so there is just a small hole that will need some patching up. On the other hand, maybe it's time for Burnished Hart to shine. (Not amazingly likely, but that would be awesome.) are you serious mate you can just add other creatures. like keranos and i dunno illusory angel which plays nicely with ornithopther. you can also add counterspells and burn to complete the deck m8
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Aug 6, 2014 02:01
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Ramos posted:I really have no idea what to do with Aggressive Mining. My best luck so far has been as a one or two of in White Blue Red control where you maximize lands and after a point just start sacrificing them until you're back at a happy point. Plus, Planar Cleansing removes it. i think you're supposed to enchant your opponent with it as early as possible tbh, because it's so bad.
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Aug 6, 2014 02:02
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mick foley forever posted:i think you're supposed to enchant your opponent with it as early as possible tbh, because it's so bad. It doesn't target
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Aug 6, 2014 02:05
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Dungeon Ecology posted:It doesn't target then its toilet crap..
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Aug 6, 2014 02:19
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LGD posted:Truly a cost that justifies itself. Van Camp Hymn is the only good Hymn. Its the only one where they are singing the drat hymn in the art! The wolf is just so much prettier than the others are.
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Aug 6, 2014 02:26
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mick foley forever posted:then its toilet crap.. Perfect for Zedruu!
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Aug 6, 2014 02:33
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I wonder if they'll reprint coiling oracle for Sultai. He is already a snake and in the right color combination.
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Aug 6, 2014 02:34
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Samael posted:Maybe if he had 1 loyalty he would be not as broken? Also, I was completely spitballing, squee was probably the first goblin I can think of which wizards would probably use as a planeswalker, him or Krenko, probably. I personally want a lot more tribal based planeswalkers, since dragons (Sarkhan Vol BR version?) and Elves (Nissa) got one, why not others? It would be interesting to see something like a Shapeshifter Planeswalker with the ability to give creatures all types until EOT and the ability to pump up named creatures types, also. Going to 1 loyalty wouldn't make it less busted, really. That would just change the question from "Do you have a shock in hand?" To "Do you have a Lightning Strike?". If a walker comes down that early, starting loyalty just isn't a knob you get to play with, because it isn't relevant, at least if it protects itself. Tibalt is bad, to be sure, but it only takes very small tweaks to make him really, really good, because a 2-mana walker is just on a razor's edge.
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Aug 6, 2014 02:36
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Ramos posted:I really have no idea what to do with Aggressive Mining. Life From the Loam + Seismic Assault recurring Dakmore Salvage by dredging.
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Aug 6, 2014 02:43
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Bugsy posted:Life From the Loam + Seismic Assault recurring Dakmore Salvage by dredging. In Standard, I should add.
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Aug 6, 2014 02:49
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Molybdenum posted:I wonder if they'll reprint coiling oracle for Sultai. He is already a snake and in the right color combination. I sure hope they do. That card is great. but I wonder about Snake Elf Druid. Does the Elf part have a place in Khans?
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Aug 6, 2014 02:55
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I'm willing to bet that a Green/Blue gold card would actually be Temur, not Sultai, anyway.
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Aug 6, 2014 03:02
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Attorney at Funk posted:I'm willing to bet that a Green/Blue gold card would actually be Temur, not Sultai, anyway. They made a lot of cross-shard things in Alara so I wouldn't be surprised if cards in the color overlap between khans.
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Aug 6, 2014 03:25
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Ramos posted:In Standard, I should add. Riptide Chimera maybe? Some sort of rug constellation mess? Dungeon Ecology posted:I sure hope they do. That card is great. but I wonder about Snake Elf Druid. Does the Elf part have a place in Khans? The elf part does look like the problematic part of Coiling Oracle's type. Non of the art so far even suggests elves.
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Aug 6, 2014 03:30
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Ramos posted:I really have no idea what to do with Aggressive Mining. I think if Aggressive Mining is going to make it into standard, it's going to need a really efficient red looter to supplement it. It's pretty bad on its own. You're eventually just going to fill your hand with lands you can't play, and have less and less mana to be able to use all your new cards. I'd want something that lets me pitch those extra lands for value, or some effect that lets me cheat them into play.
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Aug 6, 2014 04:03
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The Nastier Nate posted:I think if Aggressive Mining is going to make it into standard, it's going to need a really efficient red looter to supplement it. It's pretty bad on its own. You're eventually just going to fill your hand with lands you can't play, and have less and less mana to be able to use all your new cards. I'd want something that lets me pitch those extra lands for value, or some effect that lets me cheat them into play.
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Aug 6, 2014 04:16
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Froghammer posted:You could always cross your fingers for Seismic Assault in Khans. 4 Seismic Assault 4 Aggressive Mining 52 Mountain 
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Aug 6, 2014 04:23
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I know some people have/are going to try to make sustainable engines with Karametra and such, and I'm not convinced that can't work, but what about just a miser's Aggressive Mining or two in a deck that tops out around 4 mana, as a way to draw 4-6 extra cards in the later game? Could be worth it. Yeah you're going to be mad if you draw a bunch of lands off it without a way to use them, but that deck, in that position, would probably have been even worse off drawing those lands "naturally" over a longer period of turns. Also keep in mind that we currently have Jace, Rev and Connections in standard, so the bar for picking up extra cards is pretty high and any lesser option is going to look much lesser in comparison.
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Aug 6, 2014 04:24
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JerryLee posted:I know some people have/are going to try to make sustainable engines with Karametra and such I hate color identities.
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Aug 6, 2014 04:29
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Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:I hate Sheldon Menery.
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Aug 6, 2014 04:38
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JerryLee posted:I know some people have/are going to try to make sustainable engines with Karametra and such, and I'm not convinced that can't work, but what about just a miser's Aggressive Mining or two in a deck that tops out around 4 mana, as a way to draw 4-6 extra cards in the later game? no
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Aug 6, 2014 04:45
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welp I'm convinced
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Aug 6, 2014 04:48
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Elyv posted:welp I'm convinced good. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Aug 6, 2014 04:49
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You know, I haven't been giving the new Jace enough love. He bounces the Aggressive Mining when you want it gone, filters what you draw with it, and also bounces other stuff too. I should try out something along those lines, thanks JerryLee.
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Aug 6, 2014 04:50
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Also the subject has reminded me that Terrain Generator is a pretty cool card and it's bizarre that it's only been reprinted once, in Jace vs. Chandra of all things.
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Aug 6, 2014 04:50
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JerryLee posted:Also the subject has reminded me that Terrain Generator is a pretty cool card and it's bizarre that it's only been reprinted once, in Jace vs. Chandra of all things. Also I would like a land that combines Wintermoon Mesa and Pale Moon. Maybe it could be Soul of Prophecy and you could also use its effect from the graveyard soul style. Ideally it would be worthless.
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Aug 6, 2014 04:54
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Spiderdrake posted:There are a whole bunch of wacky non-basic lands I wish they'd reprint or do new versions of. Like Terminal Moraine. I'm not sure how that could be anything but worthless in any given meta. Maybe a very, very tempo based meta that has absolutely not colorless mana costs in it. We're talking RRR sorts of costs here.
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Aug 6, 2014 05:15
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Spiderdrake posted:There are a whole bunch of wacky non-basic lands I wish they'd reprint or do new versions of. Like Terminal Moraine. I'd bet that in their minds Terminal Moraine's design space has been pretty much staked out by Terramorphic Expanse/Evolving Wilds. There are cases when Moraine is contextually better, and maybe we'll get it back someday just for variety, but I'm less surprised at not seeing it again than I am for lands where there's nothing else filling their space. Pale Moon wasn't in Prophecy, I have to point out. I really am not at all sure what they were thinking with Wintermoon Mesa. I mean it's obviously intended as a Rishadan Port variant, but is just so bizarrely drawback-laden compared to the former, and it's not like they probably knew how powerful Port was going to be at the time Prophecy was still in design. If I had to design a "fixed" Mesa, I would try it out as not ETB and being one-shot without making you sac it (via a charge counter or something). That would let it fill the niche of a temporary tempo boost. It might or might not be good enough to see play but it wouldn't be an utter abortion of a card.
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Aug 6, 2014 05:25
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JerryLee posted:I really am not at all sure what they were thinking with Wintermoon Mesa. I mean it's obviously intended as a Rishadan Port variant, but is just so bizarrely drawback-laden compared to the former, and it's not like they probably knew how powerful Port was going to be at the time Prophecy was still in design. I think there were two things going on here. The first is "wtf prophecy why you such a stupid set." The second is that one of the themes of Prophecy was tapped lands and the rhystic cards, and wintermoon mesa let you tap a whole bunch of your own lands without getting mana burned or tap the opponent's mana so your Rhystic cards would go off for full effect.
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Aug 6, 2014 06:07
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JerryLee posted:I know some people have/are going to try to make sustainable engines with Karametra and such, and I'm not convinced that can't work, but what about just a miser's Aggressive Mining or two in a deck that tops out around 4 mana, as a way to draw 4-6 extra cards in the later game? Could be worth it. Yeah you're going to be mad if you draw a bunch of lands off it without a way to use them, but that deck, in that position, would probably have been even worse off drawing those lands "naturally" over a longer period of turns. The problem is that Aggressive Mining costs 4 mana to play. The drawback of "you can't play lands" combined with a 4 CMC is sufficient to make it unplayable. It would only be good in a corner case where you drew a very specific set of cards, e.g. your first four cards were burn spells, aggressive mining, and every other draw had just been more land and nothing else.
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Aug 6, 2014 06:12
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Angry Grimace posted:The problem is that Aggressive Mining costs 4 mana to play. The drawback of "you can't play lands" combined with a 4 CMC is sufficient to make it unplayable. It would only be good in a corner case where you drew a very specific set of cards, e.g. your first four cards were burn spells, aggressive mining, and every other draw had just been more land and nothing else. Why is the mana cost such a dealbreaker? You don't need to use the cards the moment you draw them (or draw them the turn it comes down at all), so it's not like Chandra or that new sorcery where having tapped four lands to play it is an issue. Of all the reasons why Aggressive Mining wouldn't find a deck, it being 4 mana instead of 3 or 5 mana, or whatever, is pretty much the last one it'd occur to me to care about, since the whole point (outside of combos) is that it comes down in the midgame when you've played a few more lands than your deck really needs to run on and would enjoy being able to cash in 2-3 of them for a burst of extra cards over a few turns.
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Aug 6, 2014 06:21
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Bugsy posted:Life From the Loam + Seismic Assault recurring Dakmore Salvage by dredging. This combo already works by itself. I don't see what Aggressive Mining brings to the table, other than you can't play lands now.
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Aug 6, 2014 06:21
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JerryLee posted:Why is the mana cost such a dealbreaker? You don't need to use the cards the moment you draw them (or draw them the turn it comes down at all), so it's not like Chandra or that new sorcery where having tapped four lands to play it is an issue. The deck that would want to sac lands for cards and never play lands again is a deck that wants to win this very second. If you're playing the kind of deck that doesn't need to use cards now, but wants a red card draw engine, Chandra, Pyromaster is better in every way.
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Aug 6, 2014 06:25
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Angry Grimace posted:The deck that would want to sac lands for cards and never play lands again is a deck that wants to win this very second. If you're playing the kind of deck that doesn't need to use cards now, but wants a red card draw engine, Chandra, Pyromaster is better in every way. I'll agree that Chandra, Pyromaster occupying the same drop slot, and having additional utility on top of drawing a card per turn, is probably the fork stuck in Aggressive Mining if anything is, but I think you're excluding a lot of situations that come up during gameplay if you think that no deck aside from some sort of all-in red will ever want the option to convert (previously drawn and played) excess lands into more draws. Is it worth putting Aggressive Mining in your deck? Maybe not. I just get annoyed with people slagging on a card when my perception is that they seem to be thinking about windmill slamming it on curve like it was Underworld Connections or something, and judging it on that basis. The more I think about it, though, you're probably right that even in the decks that are looking for a solution to that problem, Chandra just crowds it right out.
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Aug 6, 2014 06:34
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In a similar case, see Ajani, Pride Caller. He's not a three drop despite being three mana and was not played as such in the second place deck in Pro Tour. Just because it's four mana doesn't mean it belongs there. Also, you don't play Aggressive Mining because it's better than Chandra, you play it because you can make it work.
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Aug 6, 2014 06:41
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